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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo

T

Tha Robbertster

Member
Hydranockz said:
True but look at you. You're expecting radical changes to Halo gameplay in SpOps. Why? How can a far smaller team suddenly add the ability for stealth to work as you describe when there is currently no system already in place to allow it? The AI works somewhat on a Limited Knowledge model but that doesn't take shadows or stealth into them spotting you into account.

As for the AC130 mission... You want another on-the-rails mission like in Reach? Really? How does work with four people? How is that even fun? Shit man I know you don't find the missions terribly fun but let's not go backwards.

Understand that SpOps is tied to Halo 4 and the systems Halo 4 both used and leaved open for tinkering. Hence all the asset reuse from campaign and why we won't see a new enemy.

Blah blah blah it is Microsoft, give them more money doesn't cut it. Spartan Ops is largely an experimental beast delving into the world of post release, narrative containing content on a more flexible platform than releasing it as a separate game like ODST. It's a risk.
Click to expand...

The things I described are what I expected SpOPs to be, before the game was out. I know asking for these things in this season isn't feasible (And I didn't do it either), but for a second season, or even Halo 5, I don't see why the developers couldn't/wouldn't try out entirely new things.

A mission where the Covenant couldn't hear shots was already possible in Halo CE. The Covenant wouldn't go into alert until they'd see you. I can't believe it would be that difficult to program Halo 4's AI in a similar way.

And about the AC130 mission: One or 2 players fly in the ''Halo's AC130 equivalent'' while the other players go towards the objective on the ground. It's pretty much how it worked in Modern Warfare 2's spec ops missions but who cares. At least it was fun and challenging.

While Spartan Ops may be an experimental game mode, it is still part of the full package. And right now, I don't feel like I'm getting my worth out if it. When it was first announced, it was made out to be this revolutionary game mode. Right now, it just feels like the same thing over again. I'll hold out my final judgement till the end of this season, but there'd have to be a whole lot of gameplay surprises to tide me over.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Wahrer Machine said:
Serious question for the devs. Due to the "Direct Download" nature of further Spartan Ops content, would it be possible to introduce completely new/unique enemies, weapons, and the like in further seasons? Even if they didn't show up in the multiplayer sandbox or anything.

Just asking because my ideal ending to Spartan Ops would be Crimson and possibly Palmer ending up at an undisclosed location and finding a "temple" of unknown origin, only to have Crimson's entire squad murdered Noble Six-style and Palmer ending up with PTSD and getting a character rewrite after witnessing some Eldrich Abomination do it all, foreshadowing the return of the Precursors in Halo 5.
Click to expand...

This, pretty much this at least for Spartan Ops.
 
S

squidhands

Member
u4iX said:
The Forge playlist and Spartan Ops S2 are taking steps in the right direction. My only worry now is whether or not it's too little, too late.
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Two more map packs and a (hopefully) major Title Update are some pretty big reasons to stick around, but I can't really blame people for not liking what 343 initially had to offer.

ElzarTheBam said:
And so begins the culling of the juniors.

A vicious but necessary cycle.
Click to expand...
very necessary.

Latvian Hitman said:
The new episode of SPOPs is a step in the right direction. The environments are improved for sure.

Still need to vary up the missions, though. Seems like every mission = spawn in -> kill enemies, push a button -> survive drop ship/new wave of enemies, push another button -> survive another drop ship/wave of enemies, push yet another button -> survive yet another dropship/wave of enemies, move to extraction zone -> end mission.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I liked being able to fly a Banshee in this episode, but I'd love to see more variety in the encounters. Hell, even a stealth mission ala Splinter Cell would be pretty cool. Stealth your way in, isolate and kill a high-ranking Covie officer and stealth your way out for maximum bonus points. If alarms are sounded, it just turns into another 'fight your way to this point' game and you get no bonus. Something to shake things up beyond the shoot and push mechanics that are so heavy handed with SpOps.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Moa said:
They could, but then we hear Infinity Slayer everytime the game starts.

Unless they can control that with Megalo.
Click to expand...
They should just overdub it with the Halo 3 fog horn sound, like the one they used in the Bungie Podcast after Frankie left.

"WOOOMMMMM Slayer"
 
MrGreencastle

MrGreencastle

Member
Moa said:
They could, but then we hear Infinity Slayer everytime the game starts.

Unless they can control that with Megalo.
Click to expand...

343 admitted that Slayer Pro was horrible and removed it in like a week, saying it will return later when they can get the gametypes properly worked out. I don't imagine seeing it return until post-TU with the smaller maps from the Forge test and the Majestic pack.
 
T

TCKaos

Member
Wahrer Machine said:
Serious question for the devs. Due to the "Direct Download" nature of further Spartan Ops content, would it be possible to introduce completely new/unique enemies, weapons, and the like in further seasons? Even if they didn't show up in the multiplayer sandbox or anything.

Just asking because my ideal ending to Spartan Ops would be Crimson and possibly Palmer ending up at an undisclosed location and finding a "temple" of unknown origin, only to have Crimson's entire squad murdered Noble Six-style and Palmer ending up with PTSD and getting a character rewrite after witnessing some Eldrich Abomination do it all, foreshadowing the return of the Precursors in Halo 5.
Click to expand...

I'm holding out for boss fights with Gek and Jul. Gek is an assassin, so it should have something to do with Hologram and Active Camo. Maybe he'll duck behind cover and then cloak, but he'll have stealth so PV won't work that well (if at all). He'll try to sneak up behind you and assassinate you, and if he's successful it plays an animation (the duration of which he's invulnerable) during which he assassinates you in first person. Being killed by Gek leaves the player unable to respawn. Between boss cycles a wave of cloaked Elites would jump in to the arena.

Jul would be like Tartarus, but either with a sword and shield like the setup in the E3-2000 trailer or with that giant double sword from Halo Legends. Maybe he could be using a part-Promethean-knife-arm sword and energy sword thing. He'd get assistance from Watchers who give him hardlight shields and overshields.
 
T

Toa TAK

Banned
TCKaos said:
I'm holding out for boss fights with Gek and Jul. Gek is an assassin, so it should have something to do with Hologram and Active Camo. Maybe he'll duck behind cover and then cloak, but he'll have stealth so PV won't work that well (if at all). He'll try to sneak up behind you and assassinate you, and if he's successful it plays an animation (the duration of which he's invulnerable) during which he assassinates you in first person. Being killed by Gek leaves the player unable to respawn. Between boss cycles a wave of cloaked Elites would jump in to the arena.

Jul would be like Tartarus, but either with a sword and shield like the setup in the E3-2000 trailer or with that giant double sword from Halo Legends. Maybe he could be using a part-Promethean-knife-arm sword and energy sword thing. He'd get assistance from Watchers who give him hardlight shields and overshields.
Click to expand...

Boss fights would be a welcome return for me. I think if they did it right, it could be awesome, especially in Spartan Ops.

TheOddOne said:
CyReN mode: Black Ops II does the funny better than Halo 4.
Click to expand...

Saw that not too long ago. I agree, it was great! Everytime something takes a jab at everyday life is good in my book.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
TCKaos said:
I'm holding out for boss fights with Gek and Jul. Gek is an assassin, so it should have something to do with Hologram and Active Camo. Maybe he'll duck behind cover and then cloak, but he'll have stealth so PV won't work that well (if at all). He'll try to sneak up behind you and assassinate you, and if he's successful it plays an animation (the duration of which he's invulnerable) during which he assassinates you in first person. Being killed by Gek leaves the player unable to respawn. Between boss cycles a wave of cloaked Elites would jump in to the arena.

Jul would be like Tartarus, but either with a sword and shield like the setup in the E3-2000 trailer or with that giant double sword from Halo Legends. Maybe he could be using a part-Promethean-knife-arm sword and energy sword thing. He'd get assistance from Watchers who give him hardlight shields and overshields.
Click to expand...

I like this idea. My one recommendation would be to bring back Honor Guard Elites with Promethean Hardlight Staves instead of cloaked ones for Gek. Also, whoever scores the "killing" blow on him gets to engage in a first-person cutscene (no QTEs) where you fight Gek hand-to-hand for a minute or so with the other Spartans getting alternate angles of the fight (or showing up in the background holding off Honor Guards with their own badassery). The final Batman vs Bane fight, anyone?

Hell, you could do this with Jul too, just out in the open. Guy who scores the winning kill gets an elaborate cutscene fighting Jul amongst a massive UNSC-versus-Covenant-versus-Promethean battle. Other three Spartans are fighting Prometheans and Covenant, the boss battle "winner" gets a mix of first-and-third person shots of them fighting Jul hand-to-hand with some epic finisher.
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
vadrigar said:
Which is extremely positive, even bordering on slurp levels. Anyway this randomized ordinance system needs to go with the TU. Obviously this will never happen though.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they'll keep it in infinity/fiesta/COD slayer, but I'm holding out hope that they'll put static ordnance in the other playlists.

If I had to pick one thing that they could change that would make the most difference (for the better), it would be the random global ordnance system.
 
H

Havok

Member
No splitscreen means no guests crapping up the experience and going negative 30 every game. Cut it! Ship it.

Sucks for folks that use it regularly with separate accounts out of necessity, but it's on life support already. Put it out of its misery.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
I'm already brainstorming a way to succinctly tie up Spartan Ops. :lol

If you guys thought it couldn't be rescued in four episodes, you haven't seen anything yet.
 
R

Rev3rb

Member
Karl2177 said:
0%
Click to expand...

GrizzNKev said:
Zero
Click to expand...

Hydranockz said:
Never happened before. Splitscreen is on its way out.
Click to expand...

darthbob said:
A lot of games nowadays omit Split Screen support entirely because of performance issues.

Be glad split screen is still supported in Halo 4 at all.
Click to expand...

I didn't have any high hopes... Oh well.



Hopefully 343 puts the next system's hardware to good use for Halo 5, improving overall performance rather than dramatically upping the graphics again.
 
E

EagleBurnn

Banned
Speedy Blue Dude said:
I really do miss Invasion... Why didn't 343 keep it in the game? Best gamemode in Reach by far.
Click to expand...

I like Dominion better, Invasion games lasted too long because of the rounds, even when it was obviously a blowout from the beginning. An obvious blowout is going to end the game quickly in Dominion, I like that.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Rev3rb said:
I didn't have any high hopes... Oh well.



Hopefully 343 puts the next system's hardware to good use for Halo 5, improving overall performance rather than dramatically upping the graphics again.
Click to expand...

If I didn't recognize how computing trends worked, I'd say they should just do what they did with Halo 4 and times it by 16 for the next gen(if the rumored 8gb ram is true). Fyrewulff and Computron can correct me if I'm wrong, but the bottleneck of the 360 was largely the amount of RAM it had. The processor and graphics were adequate for what it was doing. If I could have it my way, I'm hoping for larger environment areas, with more and better AI. I mean, there's not much arguing, aside from framerate, that Halo 4 managed to impress with the visuals.

Tashi said:
About to hit up some Forge test if anyone wants to join me.

"TashiGAF"
Click to expand...

I'm gonna hop on for a couple games, and I'd rather not play in Boltshot-land alone. I'll send you a message.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
CyReN said:
To be clear the story is fine, but gameplay isn't there.
Click to expand...
The gameplay is co-op Halo combat against AI, same as the campaign.

I guess I don't understand the expectations some have for the mode. It was sold as a way to continue the story, and they haven't been all that good at integrating story into the missions themselves, but the combat scenarios have only gotten better each week.

It really is a terrorist hunt mode with some story elements. You and your buddies clearing the map of enemies and reinforcements, with some changeup in objectives. If you don't have fun fighting off a ton of Halo 4 enemies there's no way you'll ever enjoy the mode.
 
C

CyReN

Member
NullPointer said:
The gameplay is co-op Halo combat against AI, same as the campaign.

I guess I don't understand the expectations some have for the mode. It was sold as a way to continue the story, and they haven't been all that good at integrating story into the missions themselves, but the combat scenarios have only gotten better each week.

It really is a terrorist hunt mode with some story elements. You and your buddies clearing the map of enemies and reinforcements, with some changeup in objectives. If you don't have fun fighting off a ton of Halo 4 enemies there's no way you'll ever enjoy the mode.
Click to expand...

If I want to play Co-Op against AI I'll just play campaign, not a watered down version. Maybe my issue is there is no challenge and that makes it a lot more boring overall.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
I think Invasion could be very easily fixed if they:

-added Invasion Slayer-style power weapons rather than on-map pickups, requiring an actual "lockdown" of an area to earn a power weapon. Personal Ordnance rules also apply where one team can pick up said weapon or powerup instantly, but enemies need to "unlock" it
-Made it Spartan VS Spartan to avoid inter-species balancing, weapon sandbox issues, etc
-Balanced loadouts and just have ending loadouts be given more powerful Marksman weapons rather than heavy explosives or shotguns
-Added Dominion's amazing Sudden Death component to prevent hardcore donging
 
N

Nebula

Member
squidhands said:
oh good, more juniors who type with their assholes.
Click to expand...

Don't worry. We all end up being filtered out eventually. Be it by ban or promotion to Member.

Also how would one go about getting a map to a CC? I was thinking about using Blueprint as I like that group and the help they give map makers, but I was just wondering if there is a more direct route, and if CCs test the maps themselves?
 
W

willow ve

Member
So with the new content this week the "peak population" has seen a slight bump on Halocharts.

I wonder if 343 has numbers as to where people spend more time.
A) Spartan Ops
B) Forge Map Playlist
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Nebula said:
Don't worry. We all end up being filtered out eventually. Be it by ban or promotion to Member.

Also how would one go about getting a map to a CC? I was thinking about using Blueprint as I like that group and the help they give map makers, but I was just wondering if there is a more direct route, and if CCs test the maps themselves?
Click to expand...

Posting here or on Blueprint and you'll have more than a few CC's eyeballing it.
 
L

LosDaddie

Banned
Jedeye Sniv said:
Does anyone here actually like Halo 4 any more? I come in to see how the new stuff is received and it sounds like someone has taken a shit on your collective plates. Kinda depressing.
Click to expand...

There are a few of us who get a group of 3-5 GAFers together during weekend nights (Fri & Sat). I'm back to my usualy gaming schedule of playing an SP game during the week, and then Halo 4 during the weekend.

GT is the same as here.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
CyReN said:
If I want to play Co-Op against AI I'll just play campaign, not a watered down version. Maybe my issue is there is no challenge and that makes it a lot more boring overall.
Click to expand...
But that's just it - its more small campaign missions, for those of us who dig campaign. 50 extra missions of relatively bite-sized campaign-like content.

Legendary can be brutal depending upon the mission, but this is offset by making things easier with four players and SpOps having no direct incentive to stay alive. Skulls and scoring would be nice additions though.
 
E

EagleBurnn

Banned
NullPointer said:
The gameplay is co-op Halo combat against AI, same as the campaign.

I guess I don't understand the expectations some have for the mode. It was sold as a way to continue the story, and they haven't been all that good at integrating story into the missions themselves, but the combat scenarios have only gotten better each week.

It really is a terrorist hunt mode with some story elements. You and your buddies clearing the map of enemies and reinforcements, with some changeup in objectives. If you don't have fun fighting off a ton of Halo 4 enemies there's no way you'll ever enjoy the mode.
Click to expand...

My friend just watches the cinematics and hasn't played one mission, and he knows the story as much as me. Very annoying
 
T

Tzeentch

Member
Orochinagis said:
Spartan Ops needs missions like someone cover you from air with a pelican while you are capturing some artifacts in ground, going to point A to B with a shitloads of enemies ...
Click to expand...
Oh god no. Contrary to expectations, a significant portion of the Halo community treats Spartan Ops as a competitive gametype. Half of my SO games end with one or two people instantly disconnecting or one person AFK leeching points, or two friends that will grief you to get vehicles or to get your power weapon. It would just be a disaster if you had to rely on these people to do anything productive except charge at enemies and die over and over.

Another issue is it appears the MP design doesn't allow complex scripting like that (hence the repetitive button pushing being the best they can do even in the improved season 1.5). Either that or they really don't trust the players to handle anything more involved because of the aforementioned griefers and quitters.
 
D

Digital Limit

Member
Havok said:
No splitscreen means no guests crapping up the experience and going negative 30 every game. Cut it! Ship it.

Sucks for folks that use it regularly with separate accounts out of necessity, but it's on life support already. Put it out of its misery.
Click to expand...

Damn you people with no friends in your houses.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
EagleBurnn said:
My friend just watches the cinematics and hasn't played one mission, and he knows the story as much as me. Very annoying
Click to expand...
haha, I believe it.

Gotta say though, even though I love co-op modes it'd be a very hard sell to pay for another season of SpOps without more systems that encourage replay being added in. Scoring, skulls, incentives to stay alive, challenges, yadda yadda, etc etc.

As it is, we play through once on Heroic, once on Legendary, and if the level seems doable I'll try my hand at soloing it on heroic. It can make for a decent warmup while waiting for other friends to pop online though.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
LosDaddie said:
Yeah, I like how you can get a SpOps mission done in ~12min. Quick way to level up if you're close to a new level, too
Click to expand...
iDCdBavuEYfn4.gif
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
NullPointer said:
haha, I believe it.

Gotta say though, even though I love co-op modes it'd be a very hard sell to pay for another season of SpOps without more systems that encourage replay being added in. Scoring, skulls, incentives to stay alive, challenges, yadda yadda, etc etc.

As it is, we play through once on Heroic, once on Legendary, and if the level seems doable I'll try my hand at soloing it on heroic. It can make for a decent warmup while waiting for other friends to pop online though.
Click to expand...

I can't see 343i shipping another season of Ops without revamping it. They've certainly taken feedback to heart thus far I'm sure if they had more dev time rather than just tweaking in progress content it would be better. After all they want people to buy it :)
 
N

Nebula

Member
It would definitely be a very hard sell to me. I didn't care much for Firefight either so implementing that wouldn't do much for me. It's nice to see them taking feedback in and doing something with it, even if it feels like 343 are taking baby steps. I'm hoping we continue to see this type of action taken thanks to our feedback across all modes of Halo 4.
 
MrGreencastle

MrGreencastle

Member
NullPointer said:
But that's just it - its more small campaign missions, for those of us who dig campaign. 50 extra missions of relatively bite-sized campaign-like content.

Legendary can be brutal depending upon the mission, but this is offset by making things easier with four players and SpOps having no direct incentive to stay alive. Skulls and scoring would be nice additions though.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Despite it's lack of meta-gameplay depth, it can be quite a lot of fun to play co-op. The new episode especially shows that they have the capability to bring some nice new areas to the table, as well as pacing the combat throughout like a proper campaign mission. I've been wanting "map packs" for campaign since Halo 2 introduced map packs - SpOps has a shit ton of potential, and I am fully aware that this is a bit of a testing bed for 343, as something like it has never been done with Halo before. Hopefully Firefight gets some sort of a return in the future, though, I think it's a compelling mode, too. We'll see where the rest of the season goes, but if the quality of some of the missions now in 1.5 is indicative of the potential quality of a season 2, then for the right price, say 800-1600 spacebucks per season of 5-10 episodes, I'm in, for sure.

--

Also, not sure if posted, but if you enjoy technical jargon like I do, there's a neat interview with Section 3 at 343 about how Halo 4 leverages Windows Azure for it's stats, etc: http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/post/2013/01/22/How-Halo-4-is-using-Windows-Azure-Service-Bus.aspx
http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Subscribe/How-Halo-4-is-using-Windows-Azure-Service-Bus
 
J

J10

Banned
Crimson DLC: 506 Currently Playing

Community Forge Test: 8,499 Currently Playing

Conclusion: Halo 5 will remove Forge completely.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
The forge playlist is currently my favorite. Aside from the Lockout remake, that map doesn't mesh at all with Halo 4's gameplay.

Simplex is tied with Haven as H4's best map imo.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
One more bit about SpOps: Binary Rifle equipped enemies suck to fight against. Chances are you don't know there's a binary rifle wielder until somebody on the team disintegrates. It'd be better if they had the predator-red-line zoomed in effect going for a full second or so before firing, so you know you're being targeted and can react, because they snapshot like crazy. Spotting a red circle over the head of an enemy at range when being swarmed is next to impossible.

And some other small touches I've like from this past episode:
Phantoms hanging around and providing more cover-fire, destroyable objectives having a much bigger boom, rifle-wielding camo elites, and how the enemies would actually use the tunnels in Vortex. Small touches, but nice all the same.
 
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