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Black Republican
water to wine
the drink exchanger
(08-07-2017, 12:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by jmizzal

I saw it today, very intense movie

Not a lot of people in the theater so seeing the numbers not surprising I guess a lot of people dont go see movies like that prob too much for them

Probably the type of film folks would rather wait for the DVD/BD release then rush to the big screen for. If i watch this (which i will) i just know im gonna feel emotionally drained at the theater lol
Cheebo
Banned
(08-07-2017, 12:29 AM)

Originally Posted by JeTmAn81

Is the dark tower TV show still happening

Not a chance after this flop.
jmizzal
Member
(08-07-2017, 12:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Black Republican

Probably the type of film folks would rather wait for the DVD/BD release then rush to the big screen for. If i watch this (which i will) i just know im gonna feel emotionally drained at the theater lol

Yup I sure was and pissed lol
mreddie
Member
(08-07-2017, 12:34 AM)
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Saw Girls Trip finally, that was actually really good.

Funny seeing Morris Chestnut and Mike Colter in the same movie, they look like twins.

So glad it got so much cash but they should leave it alone and have no sequel.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 12:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by 3N16MA

Hardly anyone has star power these days.

Exactly. I'll take on this damn thing once I'm back from the gym.

Kevin Hart is one of the few actors that commands actual profit at the box office. Maybe Cruise and Denzel were here, but their shine is fading.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 12:59 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Exactly. I'll take on this damn thing once I'm back from the gym.

Kevin Hart is one of the few actors that commands actual profit at the box office. Maybe Cruise and Denzel were here, but their shine is fading.

Denzel's shine isn't fading.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Denzel's shine isn't fading.

Magnifcient Seven got some extra legs we don't know about?
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:05 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Magnifcient Seven got some extra legs we don't know about?

Equalizer before Magnificent Seven was Denzel's highest grossing film.

After Magnificent Seven, he took an adapted stage play all Black drama film to 64 million on a production budget of 24 million dollars.
RBelong2Us
Member
(08-07-2017, 01:11 AM)
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Wait....how is Kevin Hart a draw but Denzel isn't anymore?

I can guarantee Kevin Harts BO draw power dies out before Denzel's does and Denzel has been a draw for what ? Nearly 20 years.
JeTmAn81
Member
(08-07-2017, 01:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cheebo

Not a chance after this flop.

But it's #1! It will likely make its money back with the low production cost.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Equalizer before it was Denzel's highest grossing film.

After it, he took a an adapted stage play film to 64 million on a production budget of 24 million dollars.

Moonlight, Get Out, and Girls Trip crushed it in profit. Only one of those relies on something you could call a name actor. Hell, any of the Screen Gems black thrillers beats it.

The issue is always attributing a success to the actor, but the failure to the execution. A name actor (outside of Hart currently) isn't taking a crap film (or decent film with a bad hook) to profitability.

Originally Posted by RBelong2Us

Wait....how is Kevin Hart a draw but Denzel isn't anymore?

I can guarantee Kevin Harts BO draw power dies out before Denzel's does and Denzel has been a draw for what ? Nearly 20 years.

Hart commands the money now. Hart sold a damn stand up special to theatres and made money. Will his shine last as long as Denzel and Cruise did? Doubtful. But here, in 2017, Kevin Hart is one of the few consistent box office draws.
broncobuster
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:13 AM)
Kevin Hart makes low budget comedies. I doubt his name will help something like The Upside (The Intouchables remake).
pswii60
(08-07-2017, 01:14 AM)
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Relieved to see the Emoji movie doing so well. Fingers crossed for a sequel.
BronsonLee
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:16 AM)
No wonder Capcom is in fuckin' shambles right now
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:16 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Moonlight, Get Out, and Girls Trip crushed it in profit. Only one of those relies on something you could call a name actor. Hell, any of the Screen Gems black thrillers beats it.

The issue is always attributing a success to the actor, but the failure to the execution. A name actor (outside of Hart currently) isn't taking a crap film (or decent film with a bad hook) to profitability.

LOL This is such a bad comparison. You're not even adjusting the types of films and it's appeal to the consistency of Denzel.
RBelong2Us
Member
(08-07-2017, 01:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Moonlight, Get Out, and Girls Trip crushed it in profit. Only one of those relies on something you could call a name actor. Hell, any of the Screen Gems black thrillers beats it.

The issue is always attributing a success to the actor, but the failure to the execution. A name actor (outside of Hart currently) isn't taking a crap film (or decent film with a bad hook) to profitability.

What in the world do those 3 films have to do with Denzel Washington taking a hard R (and fairly generic) action flick over 100m?

Those three films are highly acclaimed while Equalzier is merely okay. So yeah...Denzel can carry a fairly mediocre film to high levels.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:17 AM)
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So what types of films would you like to compare to?

Originally Posted by RBelong2Us

What in the world do those 3 films have to do with Denzel Washington taking a hard R (and fairly generic) action flick over 100m?

Those three films are highly acclaimed while Equalzier is merely okay. So yeah...Denzel can carry a fairly mediocre film to high levels.

So Keanu Reeves joins the box office draw list?

I doubt anyone would say that.
pswii60
(08-07-2017, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Equalizer before Magnificent Seven was Denzel's highest grossing film.

Nope, it wasn't.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:19 AM)

Originally Posted by pswii60

Nope, it wasn't.

Yeah, you're right, it was his biggest domestic box office opening weekend.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:20 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

So what types of films would you like to compare to?

Box office draws such as Denzel can make any type of film he wants and he'll consistently recoup the money and make a profit.
RBelong2Us
Member
(08-07-2017, 01:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Yeah, you're right, it was his biggest domestic box office opening weekend.

That's not true either. He has had a few 40m OW but pretty recent with Safe House and American gangster
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Box office draws such as Denzel can make any type of film he wants and he'll consistently recoup the money and make a profit.

Which brings us back to Magnificent Seven.
RBelong2Us
Member
(08-07-2017, 01:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by MHWilliams

So what types of films would you like to compare to?



So Keanu Reeves joins the box office draw list?

I doubt anyone would say that.

What's the comparison to Keanu Reeves now? Still making no sense imo.

I'm guessing you're talking about John Wick. You're gonna compare a movie that is far more acclaimed and still didn't even make half as much as Equalizer. It's sequel did awesome but because it was a fantastic sequel to a highly regarded first film.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:23 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Which brings us back to Magnificent Seven.

So one film wasn't as successful, it didn't bomb. The problem was the production budget, and perhaps they're overestimation for how successful an ensemble Western would be in the marketplace.

Hence consistency is important.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by RBelong2Us

What's the comparison to Keanu Reeves now? Still making no sense imo.

with Denzel Washington taking a hard R (and fairly generic) action flick over 100m?

Ever heard of John Wick? You're the one who offered the comparison.

Originally Posted by lightskintwin

So one film wasn't as successful, it didn't bomb. The problem was the production budget, and perhaps they're overestimation for how successful an ensemble Western would be in the marketplace.

Hence consistency is important.

It absolutely bombed. I don't have the exact numbers on me, but it was at least $30-40 million what it needed to turn a profit, and that's without marketing.
pswii60
(08-07-2017, 01:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Yeah, you're right, it was his biggest domestic box office opening weekend.

That's more like it.

He's not fading though I agree. Not only does he still have terrific screen presence but he also comes across extremely well in interviews when doing PR for his new films.

The Equaliser was a generic B-movie that would have completely flopped had most other actors been attached, but he did make it a success. In fact, when you look at many of the movies he has been in during the last few years (e.g. Safe House, Unstoppable), they are incredibly generic by name, plot and story but he propelled them to sometching much more marketable just with his mere presence.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:26 AM)

Originally Posted by pswii60

That's more like it.

He's not fading though I agree. Not only does he still have terrific screen presence but he also comes across extremely well in interviews when doing PR for his new films.

The Equaliser was a generic B-movie that would have completely flopped had most other actors been attached, but he did make it a success. In fact, when you look at many of the movies he has been in during the last few years (e.g. Safe House, Unstoppable), they are incredibly generic by name, plot and story but he propelled them to sometching much more marketable just with his mere presence.

Exactly.
RBelong2Us
Member
(08-07-2017, 01:26 AM)
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John Wick....highly acclaimed hard R action flick made 43m

Equalizer...not highly acclaimed hard R action flick made over 100m

What..is...the...comparison ?

If anything bringing up John Wick makes the point that Denzel Washington is a big draw still.
pswii60
(08-07-2017, 01:31 AM)
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Out of interest, why are we arguing about Denzel's credentials exactly?
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

Out of interest, why are we arguing about Denzel's credentials exactly?

Star power still being a thing.

Done at the gym. Heading home for actual numbers.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:34 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Star power still being a thing.

Because it still is a thing, unless you think anybody else could've carried a film adaptation of an African American stage play, most people never heard of, where they're talking for the most part in and around their house to a 64 million box office.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Because it still is a thing, unless you think anybody else could've carried a film adaptation of an African American stage play, most people never heard of, where they're talking for the most part in and around their house to a 64 million box office.

Fences is why I brought up Moonlight, but that didn't matter apparently.

Actors are a part of execution, but overall execution will trump pretty much anything else.
pswii60
(08-07-2017, 01:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by MHWilliams


It absolutely bombed. I don't have the exact numbers on me, but it was at least $30-40 million what it needed to turn a profit, and that's without marketing.

Production budget of $90m
USA gross $93m
Worldwide gross $161m

*all just IMDb numbers

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Star power still being a thing.

Done at the gym. Heading home for actual numbers.

Star power is a thing, but it can't save anything. And especially not a Western in 2016. Just imagine how much it would have bombed without Denzel attached. We'd probably be looking more like $60m worldwide.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:37 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Fences is why I brought up Moonlight, but that didn't matter apparently.

Are you going to note how much Moonlight did after it won Best Picture?

http://fortune.com/2017/02/27/moonli...et-box-office/
RBelong2Us
Member
(08-07-2017, 01:46 AM)
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lol again... Moonlight and Fences comparison is just as bad as the John Wick one

Fences made 55m

Moonlight made 27m and won best picture

Where is the comparison?
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 01:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Are you going to note how much Moonlight did after it won Best Picture?

http://fortune.com/2017/02/27/moonli...et-box-office/

It won Best Picture in late Feb.

So unless my math is off, another $2 million domestic?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...nlight2016.htm

Again, not at home yet, so I can't parse foreign.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 01:48 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

It won Best Picture in late Feb.

So unless my math is off, another $2 million domestic?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...nlight2016.htm

Again, not at home yet, so I can't parse foreign.

Yes, but it's foreign box office took off afterwards. Places that weren't planning on showing it, showed it afterwards is my point.

Hence why it was a bad comparison. And that's not even bringing up Fences did double what Moonlight did domestically.

Because Star Power is still a thing, and Denzel still has it.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 02:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Yes, but it's foreign box office took off afterwards. Places that weren't planning on showing it, showed it afterwards is my point.

Hence why it was a bad comparison. And that's not even bringing up Fences did double what Moonlight did domestically.

Because Star Power is still a thing, and Denzel still has it.

Finally home.

Moonlight is the R-rated adaptation of the stage play In Moonlight Black Boys Look Blue. It made $65 million against a budget of $4 million. Of that, around $6 million came post-Oscar win. It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor, Best Supporting Actress and Best Adapted Screenplay and won three of those awards.

Fences is the PG-13 adaptation of Pulitzer Prize-winning play Fences. It made $64 million on a budget of of $24 million. It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actress, and Best Adapted Screenplay and won one award.

Denzel took August Wilson's play to $64 million against a lesser known play turned into a R-rated adaptation and even if you take out the post-Oscar win money, only made $5-6 million more. It's absolutely a comparison and the fact that you're seemingly ignoring it is perplexing.

From before:

They've statistically crunched the numbers. Star power doesn't really do much of anything. Pick a star, I'll show you a bomb.

From the article I previously posted:
http://www.economist.com/news/busine...s-fading-stars

Academic studies in recent decades have generally failed to find any conclusive evidence to support studio bosses’ faith in stars’ pulling power. Our own analysis suggests only that a few of them do add a bit to box-office receipts. Number-crunchers at Epagogix, a company in London, use an algorithm to project box-office takings of films based on their story elements—including the use of special effects, a surprise ending or a cool location. And they reckon that as long as the stars look good and can act, they make scant difference, with at best a very few exceptions. It helps to have a damsel in distress, but it does not really matter which damsel.

Among the few stars who do, by common consent among studio bosses, producers and agents, seem to be guarantors of success are the biggest comedy actors—names such as Kevin Hart and Melissa McCarthy. This is in part because they signal to the audience precisely what kind of entertainment is on offer, and are good at delivering. Our analysis backs this, with a bunch of leading comedy actors strongly outperforming industry averages. But the trajectories of star careers leave a lot of room for guesswork. Bruce Willis was paid $5m to make “Die Hard” in 1988; some in Hollywood were aghast, but the movie was a huge hit. Then Mr Willis made more flops than hits (excepting the “Die Hard” sequels) before hitting it big again with “The Sixth Sense”. But this time, was it the star or the story?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...r-power-840328

"So, even when you have two of the most recognized faces in the world in Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, if the project by all accounts, isn’t some kind a masterpiece, it will likely become film fodder. Or, to put delicately, a wash," Bock continues.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...nap-story.html

Russell Crowe is Hollywood royalty. Or at least he used to be. He’s got an Oscar under his belt and a string of critically acclaimed hit films — “L.A. Confidential,” “Gladiator” and “A Beautiful Mind” — on his resume. But does he have the star power to open a movie?

Not anymore, judging by his most recent box office. His latest film, “The Nice Guys,” opened at No.4, beaten by “The Jungle Book,” “Captain America: Civil War” and, yes, “Angry Birds.” Even Will Smith, who drew audiences around the world for films such as “Independence Day” and “Men in Black,” released two films last year (“Concussion” and “Focus”) that together barely topped $200 million worldwide.

Today, characters bring all the boys and girls to the box office. Is Daniel Radcliffe a movie star? Unclear. But “Harry Potter” is. Zoe Saldana has made 25 movies with a combined gross of more than $5 billion — but $4.4 billion of that came from “Avatar,” “Guardians of the Galaxy” or the “Star Trek” films; movies in which she existed as a primary color, in space or both.

Looking at the box office for films like “The Soloist” ($38.3 million) and “The Judge” ($84.4 million), both made after “Iron Man” kickstarted the Marvel Cinematic Universe, no one wants to see Robert Downey Jr. as much as they want to see Tony Stark. The latest Marvel film featuring that character, “Captain America: Civil War,” has pulled in $1.1 billion in the global box office receipts.

“There are certainly international movie stars who show up in various territories around the world and they’re mobbed by adoring fans,” said Dergarabedian. “I don’t mean to diminish that. But if the concept is king in North America, it’s tenfold that in the international marketplace.”

lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 02:04 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Finally home.

Moonlight is the R-rated adaptation of the stage play In Moonlight Black Boys Look Blue. It made $65 million against a budget of $4 million. Of that, around $6 million came post-Oscar win. It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor, Best Supporting Actress and Best Adapted Screenplay and won three of those awards.

Fences is the PG-13 adaptation of Pulitzer Prize-winning play Fences. It made $64 million on a budget of of $24 million. It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actress, and Best Adapted Screenplay and won one award.

Denzel took August Wilson's play to $64 million against a lesser known play turned into a R-rated adaptation and even if you take out the post-Oscar win money, only made $5 million more.

Are you really using an exception and proving it against the rule of Denzel. It's such a bad argument that I can't believe you're using it.
JeTmAn81
Member
(08-07-2017, 02:06 AM)
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Denzel has juice left
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 02:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Are you really using an exception and proving it against the rule of Denzel. It's such a bad argument that I can't believe you're using it.

Two black-focused play adaptation films in the same year and you're the one calling it an exception.

Like, what's the metric? Best opening weekends? Salary vs. box office take? Overall film profits? Denzel does not take #1 on any of those metrics.
BronsonLee
Banned
(08-07-2017, 02:10 AM)
I feel out of place

Actual discussion is happening
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 02:11 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Two black-focused play adaptation films in the same year and you're the one calling it an exception.

Moonlight the play was never performed on a stage. It was a complete unknown. It was a low budget independent film that broke out due to universal critical acclaim and awards buzz through out the whole year from film festivals and the attention it received. It's the exception that typically occurs every year to the studio films.

It's like me using a film like Juno to prove or disprove anything.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 02:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Moonlight the play was never performed on a stage. It was a complete unknown. It was a low budget independent film that broke out due to universal critical acclaim and awards buzz through out the whole year from film festivals and the attention it received. It's the exception that typically occurs every year to the studio films.

It's like me using a film like Juno to prove or disprove anything.

And Fences was an August Wilson play from Denzel with universal critical acclaim and awards buzz. Why is Moonlight somehow more a recepient of Oscar buzz and how do you even measure that?

This is the problem with arguing star power. Folks feel it in their gut, but the numbers don't back it up.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
(08-07-2017, 02:17 AM)
Mike making the case very well.

Star Power hasn't really been that outsized a factor for like, 20 years now.
pswii60
(08-07-2017, 02:18 AM)
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Has anyone mentioned Adam Sandler yet? Are you telling me those shower of shit movies would still have been a success without that inexplicably popular douche in them? Netflix obviously thought he had enough star power to sign him up exclusively.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 02:20 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

And Fences was an August Wilson play from Denzel with universal critical acclaim and awards buzz. Why is Moonlight somehow more a recepient of Oscar buzz and how do you even measure that?

You're simplifying everything. Moonlight was more in the zeitgeist due to it's themes about identity and sexuality. It was a low budget independent film with no real expectations that became a hit.

Fences is a modestly budget studio film with expectations due to Denzel as lead that he met due to his involvement.

Are any of the actors in Moonlight lead actors box office draws?

Will Denzel's next film Roman Israel, Esq., a legal drama film do well at the box office. Yes, because Denzel is a leading man box office draw and a lot of people will pay to watch him no matter the type of film he stars in.
border
wears the band's shirts to the band's concerts
can't comprehend the origin of terms
(08-07-2017, 02:20 AM)
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Star power still exists, to some extent. A turkey like The Mummy does not rake in 300M+ without Tom Cruise.

For whatever reason the "Star power is extinct" people seem to only want to talk about it when a A-list actor's film underperforms, and ignore that no actor is going to score a homerun every time. I don't think the thesis behind "Star Power" ever was that certain actors will be a hit in any movie they star in.
MHWilliams
(08-07-2017, 02:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

Has anyone mentioned Adam Sandler yet? Are you telling me those shower of shit movies would still have been a success without that inexplicably popular douche in them?

Comedy is always the weird outlier. Hart, McCarthy, and Sandler, though all but Hart have had pretty bad bombs recently.
lightskintwin
Banned
(08-07-2017, 02:21 AM)

Originally Posted by MHWilliams

Comedy is always the weird outlier. Hart, McCarthy, and Sandler, though all but Hart have had pretty bad bombs recently.

And yet you used a breakout Comedy film and a breakout Horror film against Denzel. LOL

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