ioriyagami
Member
The only satisfactory answer is guaranteeing that the data used by Kinect never leaves the Xbox One, which is something they can easily control by software. Anything else is just not enough.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Microsoft will "aggressively challenge" any gov't attempt to spy through Kinect
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
chickdigger802
Banned
So what if I Skype using kinect? Am I fucked?
RobotRocker
Member
Seriously though.... The first Kinect could have done the same thing, as can all the webcams that people have plugged into their computers. But for some reason people think this thing was seriously designed to control your every move, lol.
The government could tap your phone, tap into your smartphone and watch you through it's camera, watch you from the clouds via a drone, and many other much more resourceful ways than from viewing through your Kinect, if for some strange, idiosyncratic reason your life is actually that interesting that your government wants to watch your every move..
I wouldn't be shocked if there was some sort of Intelligence agreement between Japan's PSIA and the CIA to have backdoors both can access in Nintendo and Sony consoles pushed in by the PSIA. If the NSA were willing to go after big data in such a manner, I can't see why their military allies weren't doing the same (Perhaps that's the massive reveal Greenwald still apparently has. And the CIA were pulling that with Telstra in Australia. Rabbit hole goes deeper every time)
IdreamofHIME
Member
Americans really need the little on/off switch that's on UK power outlets, coz that's how I will be stopping anyone spying through my kinect.
Version 3.0
Member
Microsoft actually did "aggressively fight" the government over whether they should have to un-bundle IE back in the 90's. They were in court for years - and won, for the most part. Remember that?
But that was about marketshare, monopoly, and money. Important things. Not, you know, rights and privacy and those silly things you can't put a value on. When the government wanted information, well, it didn't cost Microsoft anything to provide it, but it would have cost money to go to court in an attempt not to.
Now, though, they're about to launch an important new product, and it's at risk of selling worse due to this controversy. So again, money's at stake.
Do I believe they'll "aggressively fight" such a thing? No. But they might spend some money to make it appear that way, under the right circumstances.
But that was about marketshare, monopoly, and money. Important things. Not, you know, rights and privacy and those silly things you can't put a value on. When the government wanted information, well, it didn't cost Microsoft anything to provide it, but it would have cost money to go to court in an attempt not to.
Now, though, they're about to launch an important new product, and it's at risk of selling worse due to this controversy. So again, money's at stake.
Do I believe they'll "aggressively fight" such a thing? No. But they might spend some money to make it appear that way, under the right circumstances.
What is most remarkable about the quote in the OP is that it's basically backdoor admitting that it is indeed possible for Kinect to spy on us, but they'd just aggressive fight any attempts by the government to attempt that.
So, even if you BELIEVED Microsoft would do that, we now know it's possible for Kinect to spy on its users, and we now know some level of data collection will likely be possible upon request, and given the history with Skype, we also know that "aggressively challenging" the government simply means bending over and taking it.
More to the point, even IF they aggressively challenged the government and made it public, that doesn't change the problem. Because there are damn good odds the government would win that case, and then Kinect would be exactly the tool everyone feared it would be.
I cannot believe they don't realize how dumb this latest PR statement is. Microsoft truly is on some next-level ish if they think they've been competent in handling even a single aspect of the Xbox One to date.
valkillmore
Member
Not if you've done nothing wrong. You HAVE done nothing wrong, right?
Took the words right out of my fingertips. This. So much this. Basically admiting its possible to spy using Kinect. This will blow up in their faces; it'll have traction.
Sure. So what would be your solution to this if the Kinect could not be removed? Obviously Microsoft stating directly that they will challenge (note: not refuse, but challenge. They cannot refuse if they are shown a court order.) the gov't doesn't convince GAF. How would they prove to you that they mean it when they say they will aggressively challenge them?
Skype is an actual conversation between people where terrorist intelligence can be gathered. A lot of international communication goes through skype because it's cheaper. Kinect is just reading your body movements for games. In what way would that be useful to the NSA?
Treemonkeys
Member
It's not like we know what kind of deals were made though.
krypt0nian
Banned
Yup. Biggest news of the night as far as I'm concerned. Kinect CAN be used to watch/listen over the net.
AmethystEnd
Member
This just in: Terrorist groups forcing members to communicate through sign language. Microsoft with the solution this fall!
Let's say the government "suspects" you have ties to a terrorist organization. Now they find out you have an Xbox One and you utilize skype - which also uses Kinect. We already know the government spies on people using skype. Or let's say they believe this guy is a terrorist and want to check if, at least, there is anything suspicious going on in the room where the console is set up. The odds are they'd turn it on and see some people fucking or jerking off or something, which is creepy enough. But they could do it if they feel it might lead to some new evidence.
There's a billion ways small and large such a thing could be used against the populace. And we've already seen such things over and over, endlessly. Why anyone would trust that this would be different is beyond me. Then again, the same contingent of people who refuse to admit Microsoft fucked up near endlessly with the Xbox One are probably also coming into this topic to refuse to admit this is a fuck up too (hey erzrb3zr!).
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
A position they are putting themselves in unnecessarily due to making Kinect mandatory, easily fixed by reversing that decision.
Hell, Forget the US, what about other countries governments?
I mean some such as India etc. have already leaned on companies such as Google and Facebook to provide access to data , and plenty of countries don't have even the meagre restrictions and freedom the US does. (Although it does look like even the US is regressing in this respect.)
Glorified G
Member
It's not just reading your body movements. It listens and responds to voice commands even if the system is in sleep mode.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The only real takeaway from this is that Microsoft has just said "yes, it's possible to let the NSA spy on you."
I think the whole idea is ridiculous, but this probably isn't the right way to assuage the fears of those who are genuinely concerned.
I think the whole idea is ridiculous, but this probably isn't the right way to assuage the fears of those who are genuinely concerned.
*For the purposes of NSA "doing something wrong" includes saying words ike Sniper, Rail gun and niche
3rdamention
Member
Yet they turned over Skype, Outlook and SkyDrive info without even raising a fist......
Or..you know...by having the Xbox be able to go offline...
Wait...
Or...you know...by being able to disable the Kinect...
Wait...
DeviantBoi
Member
So it is possible?
If there is a new law, it won't be announced in the papers and no one will warn you. And Microsoft won't be allowed to say that they lost their challenge.
If the government needs access to the Kinect data, they'll get it.
Besides, access to Skype already means that Microsoft are a bunch of pushovers.
If there is a new law, it won't be announced in the papers and no one will warn you. And Microsoft won't be allowed to say that they lost their challenge.
If the government needs access to the Kinect data, they'll get it.
Besides, access to Skype already means that Microsoft are a bunch of pushovers.
You can unplug Kinect? link please...
Or you know...you can disable it like they have already stated.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I see another 180 in Microsoft's future. They will go kicking and screaming, but they just can't catch a break. The NSA thing came at such a bad time for MS. They can't get this thing out the door without bad news.
"Ok everyone, you don't need to connect your Kinects, but some games will require it just like 360. You happy? Enjoy your unchanged xbox, if only you didn't complain so much we would have shown you the future. This is all your faults!"
Treemonkeys
Member
I have no idea how you can think the government doesn't have a heavy hand in this when they already have the power to demand access to the data.
The fact that they even felt the need the need to comment on this in the first place speaks volumes.
This (sort of) baseless nonsense is exactly the sort of thing MS will never be able to put to bed because the conspiracy crowd will endlessly babble on about it regardless of anything they say.
This (sort of) baseless nonsense is exactly the sort of thing MS will never be able to put to bed because the conspiracy crowd will endlessly babble on about it regardless of anything they say.
Did I say unplug or disconnect? http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy
You can turn off those voice features. Not only that, but going offline renders data transfer impossible.
shinobi602
Member
Lol, "I don't want to know the truth, just let me stay ignorant of the fact!"
Treemonkeys
Member
why would anyone need a tinfoil hat when this comment factually confirms by Microsoft it is possible to spy on people and that this precise thing already happened to Skype where Microsoft bent over, literally designed a backdoor to make spying on people easier, and we have wide ranging evidence from the NSA/PRISM that Microsoft puts up virtually no fight whatsoever.
you guys are fucking hilarious. put down the company worship and deal with the facts.
They do have a heavy hand. If they show up with a court order, Microsoft has to legally obey. Denying the gov't is not an option there. It'd be like denying the cops to enter your home when they have a search warrant.
This is where we define "aggressively challenge" vs. "flat out refuse".
that's what I got from this story. It's unbelievable that this is even a thing.
Microsoft want people to buy a mic and cam that's connected 24/7 and they promise not abuse it... unless they have to? fuck. that.
krypt0nian
Banned
Exactly. The tinfoil hat excuse went right out the window now, warriors
shinobi602
Member
Unfortunately some things are outside of people's comfort zones, hence a lot of times difficult to accept.
which part of this is in tinfoil hat territory?
That the government will pay on you? Proven fact
That microsoft are working with the NSA? Proven fact
That they can spy on you through kinect? this is their admission right there
I hope you have a better argument than drive by trolling with meme pics
Moral Panic
Member
Microsoft say there is no backdoor though.
toddhunter
Member
Except the ones it still listens for.
Treemonkeys
Member
It was always just a non-thinking way to point and laugh rather than deal with the argument.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
it's not their choice.
Similar threads
- Locked