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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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Majukun
Member
in one case speaking the truth has no price whatsoever..in the other case you have to defend yourself in a court,spending a lot of money that maybe you don't even have.
i'm not saying that they did the right thing,or that this was the only possible outcome for this situation,but you have made equal two situations that are nothing alike
Has freelanced for Square Enix, articles by her about Tomb Raider have been posted and look like nothing more PR / advertising for the game.
I believe taking the point of view that she is simply excited in the face of the evidence is naive as hell.
APZonerunner
Member
Fair points. Good points. I'm just terrified of reaching this point where a tweet about being excited for a game pre-release invalidates your opinion or review score further down the line. It's about self control, I guess - expressing excitement without being an ad, or doing the Skyrim review copy dance. I'm just talking about that specifically, really. Like I say, the PS3 stuff left as bad a taste in my mouth as any of you.
None of that was in the original article or surfaced when I wrote that post, though. See me holding my hands up above. I even say in that very post "If there's more evidence, then it's okay," and I believe that. I agree with John Walker's position entirely (man is a genius, you'd be mad not to) but some of the tone of this whole series of events worries me.
Interfectum
Member
So her using the chilling effect caused her to suffer the consequences of the streisand effect.
love it
love it
You don't really have a choice but to step in that grey area when your biggest advertisers are the makers of the products you are critiquing. Big publishers control the purse strings, the access to the product, and the things you are allowed to talk about pre-release. Throw in the backlash from fans when reviews don't drool over their favorite games and it becomes quite easy to just play along.
Who called her out for liking Tomb Raider? That wasn't the point of the original "Table of Doritos" article at all.
It's telling, considering accusations that she's just a straw for siphoning talking points from PR.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Either EG have removed the comments, my browser's being shit, I've been banned, or their site is getting hammered.
Can't decide which.
Can't decide which.
I'd like to know if this is an issue with other specialist press too. There are hundreds, probably thousands of publications on specialist areas - movies, knitting, music, dogs, whatever.
Surely most of them rely on advertising at least partly from the companies they write articles about. Most of them review products supplied by said companies.
I suppose they have to have good relationships with the PR teams of the car/movie/knitting companies in order to get hold of products to preview/review on time and sell in advertising.
Is games any different?
IdreamofHIME
Member
It's amazing what's happened to the integrity of an article that was looking at the integrity of games journalism.
Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqB5LUKh8A
Still my favourite review of all time, I love you Rab!
*continues to miss consolevania*
Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqB5LUKh8A
Still my favourite review of all time, I love you Rab!
*continues to miss consolevania*
Good read.
Although lets be clear here, her claiming to be a giant fan of tomb raider and emblazoning er Twitter with pictures of the game is also kinda weak, given that she lists Square Enix as a current employer.
Sputnik Sweetheart
Neo Member
This might have been covered in the last two pages already, but I've seen it a lot in the thread so far.
I'm pretty sure Rab writes for Eurogamer on a freelance basis so it's not like it's walked straight out of a job or anything. Not that makes his actions less noble or somehow questionable; it's good to be able to afford morals in this business.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
Good lord, she is just awful as a writer.
It may indeed be insanity, but whether it is or isnt is not particularly relevant as it wasnt what Mr Florence was saying, or implying. He was pointing out how the appearance of overly-fervent support could cause the reader to question the journalists integrity. Perhaps you should try addressing what was written as opposed to trying to reframe it in order to make it seem absurd?
I wonder if a lot of this suspicion could be somewhat alleviated if along with any review of a particular game there was a breakdown of whatever shit the Publisher sent them along with the review disc
So if say the reviewer was flown out to a foreign and was asked to review the game under controlled conditions like GTA IV I think it was then there would be disclosure of this somewhere in the article.
So if say the reviewer was flown out to a foreign and was asked to review the game under controlled conditions like GTA IV I think it was then there would be disclosure of this somewhere in the article.
The problem is too many people on the internet would rather post a gif to get a cheap lol instead of taking the time to form an actual opinion. It works once, then quickly becomes lazy shorthand for discussion. Things just aren't that black and white, as convenient as it might be.
Oh I dont thing so HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG
Joe Molotov
Member
If there's anything better than internet drama, it's internet videogame journalism drama HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG!!!
SolidSnakex
Member
It certainly wouldn't hurt. We didn't know about all of the questionable things that went on with the GTA4 review until a month after its release.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I don't mind Geoff. He doesn't walk around pretending like he is more than what he is. And that is a host. A TV show host, an internet show host, etc....and when he wants to be he is a better writer than most out there. When he does review things I've never once thought anything suspicious if it. But I get why it looks murky for sure. Hard to take their opinion on upcoming halo seriously.
As for this other controversy. I think the article calling people out is a little low. Just do it in generalities or subliminals. No way calling people out by name song giving then the rundown was going to end well.
As for this other controversy. I think the article calling people out is a little low. Just do it in generalities or subliminals. No way calling people out by name song giving then the rundown was going to end well.
Majukun
Member
it's what came when you become a journalist.You can have your opinion,but you can publicly state it if your job is to give impartial opinions.Plus,you can't do what is basically paid advertising with your twitter account if you want to have credibility as a journalist.
the entire point of the article wasn't that the industry is corrupted,or that gaming journalist can't like a franchise..but that many of these "journalist" don't know shit about what being a journalist is about,what are the rules,what you can do and what you can't.
You can't write a response when you just got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
In cases like this, or any case related to someone suing, wouldn't it be entirely logical and reasonable to make the plaintiff pay for all the defendants bills related to the court (Lawyer, whatever else.), and if any research is needed, the courts would make the plaintiff pay (Through the courts.) for an anonymous company hired by the courts.
Something along those lines would prevent careless, rich and/or moneygrabbing psychopaths from suing over minor stuff. I mean, it's absurd that anyone can take ANYONE to the courts.
Ie a case like someone suing a company over what a journalist said would require the plaintiff to pay every single penny, including covering salaries if a court meeting is held during work hours.
YoYo Switch
Banned
Hardly a nobody I'd say. She was on a popular podcast with Jim Sterling for a while, it's where I knew her from.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
With social-media faux-pas and British libel laws. It has a bit of everything!
http://www.laurenwainwright.com/?p=2790
Just leaving this here, A 20 page FAQ on how you go from writing about tomb raider to getting a job as a community manager for tomb raider.
Just leaving this here, A 20 page FAQ on how you go from writing about tomb raider to getting a job as a community manager for tomb raider.
Ban Puncher
Member
Aye Fat Rab, you'll always have my support, matey.
TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAM!!!
TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAM!!!
I agree, and it's very unfortunate.
There are no winners in this. Rab has lost a commission, Eurogamer's staff have lost the security of freedom of speech, and Lauren Wainwright has wholesale fucked her credibility as a journalist.
SolidSnakex
Member
I don't think that there was anything wrong with calling people out by name if he feels that they're doing something questionable. The problem with what he did is that he later mentioned that he has a mental list of journalists that he feels are shady, but he refused to list them.
Interfectum
Member
Yeah she pretty much doesn't have a leg to stand on which is why she turned to lawsuits and profile lock down.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Yeah I guess if you're going to go there then go all the way rather than singling out.
Well the problem with that is that these costs are only awarded once the case is done
and the lawyers you hire aren't going to wait for a year or however long for you to pay them while the case is ongoing, so you have to pay and then wait for the court or other party to reimburse you (which can also take ages or be whittled down on any appeal).
So by the time you actually get the money, the damage may have already been done.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
All this hubbub over video games.
I think explaining why your hand may or not be in the cookie jar (Schrodeinger's hand?) is a much better approach than screaming "SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP" i.e. calling in the law
EdwardTivrusky
Member
Aye Fat Rab, you'll always have my support, matey.
TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAM!!!
Awesome and sadly missed.
Dictator93
Member
Gonna say something slightly inflammatory because I actually feel really discouraged about all this.
In response to the quote above, Lauren Wainwright can just say,
"who cares."
In this world concerned with capital, advertising, and "raping" every single thing that was once beautiful with dollar signs, she can and will continue to write whatever drivel she wants. The money world does not care about integrity, just about profit. Things will continue to spiral downward until there is no more meaning, just mountain dew and doritos.
BTW, my dictionary spell checker on firefox is trying to make me capitalize doritos. Fuck that
I'm only vaguely aware of who Jim Sterling is, so maybe it's only me who had no previous knowledge of Miss HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG.
Dang, she actually has her own page/blog thing.
Lauren Wainwright; Nu Games Journalism (Buy Tomb Raider, out March 2013)
The screenshot was actually originally taken by a poster on Something Awful, he started posting it out of context in threads a week ago as a joke. http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...25385&pagenumber=285&perpage=40#post408659686
It's really funny to see this spread and become a big thing that people are kicking up a fuss about. I'm surprised people haven't been more paying attention to the original video, this line in particular is funny: "You can impress your friends if you drink enough Mountain Dew and Doritos."
Relaxed Muscle
Member
This a quite sad event, Rab article put on the spotlight how some game journalists care so little about integrity, on purpose or not that it may be hurting the profession, and well basically in GAF gaming journaslism is a joke except for a few cases.
And with things like that is normal.
Very good article on the whole mess.
And with things like that is normal.
Very good article on the whole mess.
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
Can you imagine the chest-beating "The people have a right to know!" mantra that these guys would be hammering all over the place if a game dev or publisher (or anyone outside of games journalism/pr) responded to such questionable lack of ethics as this? Gotta use that click-bait to advance your personal cred, right?
But no. When it comes to your own, the wagons circle, the notion of transparency gets kicked down the cellar and the victim card gets played.
Disclosure: I like TombRaider games and sometimes eat Doritos
But no. When it comes to your own, the wagons circle, the notion of transparency gets kicked down the cellar and the victim card gets played.
Disclosure: I like TombRaider games and sometimes eat Doritos
reptilescorpio
Member
She won't have any issues continuing to work with MCV at the very least
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