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Uber might lose license in London if TFL decide not to renew (Up: not renewed)

jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Could a Mod update the title please?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKUeri0W0AAUK8L.jpg:large

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyball

http://uk.businessinsider.com/tfl-pressure-revoke-uber-london-licence-2017-9

London is Uber's biggest market in the UK, with around 40,000 registered drivers, according to figures given by the company. But if Transport for London (TfL) decides not to renew Uber's operator's licence in the capital, the company will have to can its operations in London. The firm currently holds a four-month operator's licence, and is awaiting an imminent decision over a new five-year licence.
Click to expand...

I know a load of black cab drivers will be happy.
a lot of people out a job.

edit update not renewed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41358640

Ride-hailing app Uber "not fit and proper" to operate in London, transport regulator says

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said in a statement: "I fully support TfL's decision - it would be wrong if TfL continued to license Uber if there is any way that this could pose a threat to Londoners' safety and security."

But although Uber claims 3.5m Londoners use the app and there are 40,000 drivers, the company has been dogged with controversy in London.
It has been blamed for congestion, failing to report sexual offences, not doing proper criminal checks and a rise in collisions.
It has also been criticised by unions for poor working conditions of drivers.

..Uber has 21 days to appeal.
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/22/uber-ban-london-safety

I have repeatedly said the regulatory environment is critical in protecting Londoners' safety, maintaining workplace standards for drivers and sustaining a vibrant taxi and private hire market with space for a range of providers to flourish. It is not simply regulation for regulation's sake.
Click to expand...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...icence-not-renewed-expires-taxi-a7960856.html

The current licence expires on 30 September. Uber can appeal the decision within 21 days and will be able to continue to service its 3.5 million customers in London until that appeal process has been exhausted.
Click to expand...

Twitter reactions etc:
https://twitter.com/i/moments/911172098487353344

posting this here as interesting:

tonysidaway said:
For those people who seem to think Uber is safe:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....report-sex-attacks-by-drivers-says-met-police

The Metropolitan Police are worried.
Click to expand...


I think after the dust settles, Uber will be forces to sort themselves out and come back better regulated and run.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
I'll throw Khan in the fucking river if he does this and normally I like him.

Don't take our Uber away, it has changed the game in London, we cannot go back.
 
S

snausagesUK

Member
Don't Uber exploit people and contribute to this unsustainable gig-based work model that's put a ton of people into a downward debt spiral?

Granted this is just what I surmised from all the Uber headlines I've been seeing. They sound like cunts is all.
 
Spuck-uk

Spuck-uk

Banned
Fuck Uber, shocking business practices. It's not like Addison Lee don't do almost the same thing anyway.

London isn't just black cabs.
 
P

PipefishUK

Banned
I like Uber, I've used it in London, Portsmouth, Southampton and Manchester. But more than once in Portsmouth I've had a car turn up with no Portsmouth City Council private hire plates (illegal). I've also had a car turn up in Portsmouth with Chichester City Council private hire plates, which I don't believe is legal as they have to stick to their own city/town area.

Southampton ones have been better but have had them with various issues too.

So Uber obviously aren't checking out their drivers or their driver's cars properly and this is the right decision - even though it's kind of annoying.
 
W

wetflame

Pizza Dog
So they can appeal within 21 days of the ruling and can operate while the appeal is going on, so i expect the appeal to start just before their license expires on the 30th.

This is the wording of their ruling, explaining why they're deeming them not fit and proper by the way:

DKUeri0W0AAUK8L.jpg:large
 
KarneeKarnay

KarneeKarnay

Member
snausagesUK said:
Don't Uber exploit people and contribute to this unsustainable gig-based work model that's put a ton of people into a downward debt spiral?

Granted this is just what I surmised from all the Uber headlines I've been seeing. They sound like cunts is all.
Click to expand...

Yep. I used Uber for a while and appreciated the ease of use, but when I read up on practices I uninstalled. This might be the hay that broke the camels back. Uber are in red and not just a small amount, they are in red more than any company ever.

I hear people argue that every big company today started out in the Red...But none of them ever got this far into it.

I would be shocked to see uber still afloat in 2 years.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
From the basis that TfL made the decision, it seems pretty fair really. Uber has time and time again proved to be a company that is not fit and proper and acting in a moral, fair and safe manor. Hell when this site exists, it says a decent amount.

It's a bit of a shame this will all be seen as oh it's control, how terrible, it's about stopping change, when hiding from regulators, failing checks, dealing with allegations... those are serious things.


I presume this'll go on for about five thousand years in court though. And if Uber actually get their shit together - that'd be great.
 
L

Lime

Member
Amazing news. I am so grateful that this exploitative shit company is getting banned more and more.
 
J

Jonnax

Member
You should stick this quite from the TFL in the OP:

”Uber's approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility" in relation to reporting serious criminal offences, obtaining medical certificates and other issues."
Click to expand...

Oh wow. This Greyball app is pretty dodgy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyball

According to the New York Times report, which was based on interviews of four current and former Uber employees and a review of internal Uber documents, Greyball used several methods to identify and deny service to government officials who were investigating Uber for violations of local laws.[2] Those methods included:

Geofencing.
Uber would create a digital map that identified the locations of city government offices. If a potential rider attempted to hail a ride from the area around a government building, Greyball would flag the individual as a possible law enforcement agent.[2]


Mining credit card databases.
If Uber identified a credit card as being associated with a government agency or police union, it would flag that individual in Greyball.[2]


Identifying devices.
Since government agencies would often buy cheap cellphones for use in sting operations, Uber employees would visit electronics stores to obtain model numbers for inexpensive phones and input those model numbers into Greyball.[2]


Searches of social media.
Uber employees searched social media profiles to identify possible law enforcement agents. Uber then flagged those individuals in Greyball.[2]
Click to expand...
 
C

CCS

Banned
Also from TfL's statement, part of their reasoning was the Greyball software Uber was using to dodge regulators.
 
N

Nevasleep

Member
Uber was slick and cheap. Taxi and private hire are usually one or neither of those.
How much more expensive is Addison Lee?

I think they'll make improvements and end up with a license.
 
S

SMattera

Member
Spuck-uk said:
Not for the employees.

Sorry 'independent contractors'
Click to expand...

Well, I have to admit I don't know much about what it's like to be a taxi driver in the UK, but at least in the US, Uber drivers are generally better off than taxi drivers.

A lot of Uber drivers are former taxi drivers. All the ones I've talked to about it say they make more money and have more flexibility.

Uber and Lyft also dramatically increased the size of the overall market, giving more people jobs. In NYC for example, there are four times more Uber and Lyfts on the road than taxis. (Admittedly, some of this is because they've taken away business from the taxis, but the taxi business is only down about 30%.)
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Spuck-uk said:
Nope, since they were never employed by Uber.

Again, London has hundreds of cab firms, the biggest ones have apps as well.
Click to expand...

Well, not properly redundant, but 40,000 are going to lose their income overnight. Lots of people live pay packet to pay packet. This could go really badly.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Spuck-uk said:
Nope, since they were never employed by Uber.

Again, London has hundreds of cab firms, the biggest ones have apps as well.
Click to expand...

And they are all way more expensive. People used Uber way more than they did black cabs. They won't just go to minicabs or black cabs, they'll take the tube/bus instead.

Unless there is another service operating in London at the same price.
 
M

Musician

Member
Lime said:
Amazing news. I am so grateful that this exploitative shit company is getting banned more and more.
Click to expand...

Truth.

The way they treat their "independent contractors" is shameful. The only reason it's cheap is because
1. Uber is apparently fine with being billions in debt
2. People actually lose money or don't make enough for basic needs working for Uber.

But hey, being driven around for cheap is nice, right?
 
H

hotcyder

Member
Good. Hope it sends a warning to other "independent contractor" businesses that exploit people who can't get permanent work.
 
J

jellies_two

Member
Meadows said:
Well, not properly redundant, but 40,000 are going to lose their income overnight. Lots of people live pay packet to pay packet. This could go really badly.
Click to expand...

1. It's not overnight they have 3 weeks to appeal then the appeal gets considered
2. Signing up to drive for another company isn't rocket science. They haven't outlawed the demand.
 
G

GrizzleBoy

Banned
Unless there is a replacement phone app 9 million Londoners know about and can download right Now, they ain't calling any black cabs.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Geoff said:
I'll throw Khan in the fucking river if he does this and normally I like him.

Don't take our Uber away, it has changed the game in London, we cannot go back.
Click to expand...

That's a ridiculous reaction, they are balancing the public interest and you saving a few quid.
 
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