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Monster Hunter: World Discussion and Speculation Thread

K

Kyoufu

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
Why?

How does having 2-5% drop rates make the game better?

What happens to the "amazing feeling of accomplishment" you get from beating a monster when you arrive at the crafting screen and realize you need to go beat them at least two more times to get the materials you need?

Why is it essential to make the player perform a busywork routine between every mission?

I get defending the core mechanics... but what's the point of defending the padding? Are people upset that gathering is instant now? That weapon trees are no longer guesswork?
Click to expand...

Monster Hunter, like many loot games, relies on repetition and replayability to maintain player engagement and "rare" drops are part of that formula. I mean, they're not really all that rare either, especially when you can increase your chances of obtaining them by capturing monsters and breaking certain parts of the monster. Generally speaking It's not as bad as you're making it out to be.

If you blow through the entire game fighting each monster only once or twice at most then you're missing out on the core MH experience.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
Why?

How does having 2-5% drop rates make the game better?

What happens to the "amazing feeling of accomplishment" you get from beating a monster when you arrive at the crafting screen and realize you need to go beat them at least two more times to get the materials you need?

Why is it essential to make the player perform a busywork routine between every mission?

I get defending the core mechanics... but what's the point of defending the padding? Are people upset that gathering is instant now? That weapon trees are no longer guesswork?
Click to expand...
Quick look at your list, 1, 2 wont happen in a game that benefit from having an active user base, and 4 would be a disaster for the series! Being able to change armors abilities means only defense stats matter on armors, seeing similar armors on most players is already a problem with the series, and this would just magnify that ten folds! And that's not even taking abilities balance into account!
 
E

Emperor_Uriel

Member
Kyoufu said:
Monster Hunter, like many loot games, relies on repetition and replayability to maintain player engagement and "rare" drops are part of that formula. I mean, they're not really all that rare either, especially when you can increase your chances of obtaining them by capturing monsters and breaking certain parts of the monster. Generally speaking It's not as bad as you're making it out to be.

If you blow through the entire game fighting each monster only once or twice at most then you're missing out on the core MH experience.
Click to expand...

The difference, compared to other loot games like Destiny, Diablo and Borderlands, is that getting the drops you need is the only method of advancement. There's no experience points or perk trees that consistently reward players for investing their time, nor are there levels or additional enemies that offer their own separate rewards. You spent 10-20 minutes killing a single monster and either got the material you need to craft a better piece of gear, or you didn't and need to repeat that fight until you do.

People won't miss out on the "core MH experience" because they "blew through the game," they'll miss out because they quit after having to re-fight the same challenging boss for the third time with the same gear they had during their first attempt just because the RNG keeps screwing them out of a proper upgrade.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
The difference, compared to other loot games like Destiny, Diablo and Borderlands, is that getting the drops you need is the only method of advancement. There's no experience points or perk trees that consistently reward players for investing their time, nor are there levels or additional enemies that offer their own separate rewards. You spent 10-20 minutes killing a single monster and either got the material you need to craft a better piece of gear, or you didn't and need to repeat that fight until you do.

People won't miss out on the "core MH experience" because they "blew through the game," they'll miss out because they quit after having to re-fight the same challenging boss for the third time with the same gear they had during their first attempt just because the RNG keeps screwing them out of a proper upgrade.
Click to expand...

You don't need rare items to advance. Player skill will mostly determine whether you can advance or not, and if you REALLY need a new weapon or armour set to progress then good news, the majority of monsters in each MH game don't possess "rare" items anyway, so you can easily craft weapons and armour sets to make you stronger to tackle the next tier.

You're asking for a game based on collecting loot to give you said loot for minimal effort. Monster Hunter and many other loot games don't work that way for a very good reason and that's to encourage players to hunt said monsters so that more players will share the same goals.
 
F

forrest

formerly nacire
I'm so hyped for this shit, I've gone from HR1 to HR33 in MH3U over the past week! I've always been a solo player, so I'm trying to get some online experience under my belt before world hits. Bought Mario + Rabbids and haven't even opened the game yet.

Just crafted Myxo Demolisher and Nero's Anguish and killed my first Dire Moralis and Alatreon!

Monster Hunter World can't come soon enough.
 
H

hans_castorp

Member
Desire sensor has been quite benevolent these last entries, drop rates are fine imo.
Most monster go down in 10min at most, even shorter with more players. Farming a couple of hours usually gives all the materials you need, unless you are extremely unlucky.

For Generations in particular I don't even remember having to farm. A LR armour and any GS with decent raw can can carry you to the middle of HR.
 
C

Cyrix

Neo Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
I'd love to see Deviljho and Gore Magala return. My two favorite designs in the series.

I'd also like to see the following mechanical changes:

1. No drop chances below 20%.
2. Fewer materials required for crafting (no more than 2 of any material).
3. Farms send items directly to your item box after every mission, no need to micromanage after buying the upgrades.
4. Armor abilities can be changed, so you can get essential skills like Sharpness and Evade on any armor. and if you just want to have cooler looking armor then armor skinning is the better more elegant solution.
5. Gathering tools, whetstones and other farming/upkeep items are infinite.

Basically, they need to tone down the amount of busywork that comes with preparing to fight a monster and also reduce the number of times you need to repeat that fight before gaining any benefits.

If the player isn't able to increase their stats in some way after every challenging fight, people are going to lose interest quickly.
Click to expand...

1&2: could be handled more elegantly through a materials trading/exchange system.
I agree that some of the super low percentage drops can be annoying if you have bad luck (It took like 30 crit brachy hunts in 4u to get his rare for me) but just making them not rare kinda defeats the purpose, instead an NPC that could trade high rarity items for a small fee would alleviate the frustration without removing rarity.

3: we don't even know if there will be farms :p but instead of auto dropping it all in your box i think a quick take all option at the box makes more sense, there have been plenty of instances where i didn't want to take everything from my farms/traders.

4: Honestly, no skill is essential. don't know how else to put that really. Not trying to just be a shitty git gud comment, but finding set and weapon combos that work for you, and learning to play in different ways when you can't is part of the game.

5: i straight up agree with you here, no need for them to be consumables. Also i feel like they may have already confirmed they ARE infinite in world already?
 
A

Ally of Justice

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
I'd also like to see the following mechanical changes:

1. No drop chances below 20%.
2. Fewer materials required for crafting (no more than 2 of any material).
3. Farms send items directly to your item box after every mission, no need to micromanage after buying the upgrades.
4. Armor abilities can be changed, so you can get essential skills like Sharpness and Evade on any armor.
5. Gathering tools, whetstones and other farming/upkeep items are infinite.

Basically, they need to tone down the amount of busywork that comes with preparing to fight a monster and also reduce the number of times you need to repeat that fight before gaining any benefits.

If the player isn't able to increase their stats in some way after every challenging fight, people are going to lose interest quickly.
Click to expand...

I never had a problem with gathering tools running out or sending items to the box. While those count as QoL changes, I think they're minor enough to be ignored or be kept as they are. Whetstones, Bug Nets and Picks always felt like necessary expenses for a hunt and, personally, something that added to the immersion.

I don't think I like the "no drop chances below 20%". I like to think of the rare items mechanic as part of the worldbuilding of Monster Hunter, like how rare it is for a Ruby to form within a Rathalos and that's why it is really rare and hard to get. It's not like it's hard to extract, but that it is hard to find a Rathalos with a ruby in it. And well, to be perfectly honest, I've never thought "I wish I needed less of these materials to forge this", and I've been playing MH since Dos on the PS2.

And I completely dislike the "Armor abilities can be changed" part. First of all, I don't think there is an "essential", must have skill. Then, we already have Talismans and they're good enough for those "essential" skills. An armor set has a determinate set of skills because they're a kind of representation of the monster the parts came from, and without that, is nothing more than a skin for your character.

I don't think you need to "increase" your stats for the game to be engaging. Sense of progression is achieved through Weapon and Armor Forging, unlocking new areas, hunts and monsters, and defeating a monster you had troubles against. While armors and weapons have numbers, Monster Hunter is not a "make numbers go up" kind of game.
 
H

Hybris

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
Why?

How does having 2-5% drop rates make the game better?

What happens to the "amazing feeling of accomplishment" you get from beating a monster when you arrive at the crafting screen and realize you need to go beat them at least two more times to get the materials you need?

Why is it essential to make the player perform a busywork routine between every mission?

I get defending the core mechanics... but what's the point of defending the padding? Are people upset that gathering is instant now? That weapon trees are no longer guesswork?
Click to expand...

I think lower drop rates for those rare items are a good thing in the case where you can compound your chances of looting the item by breaking parts you don't normally care about breaking.

Parts in monster hunter are actually not that rare. If you are taking advantage of all chances to get the item, you are actually looking at about a 18-24% chance to get the item per kill of the monster. And it can be further augmented by kitchen skills, armor skills, etc. I think players should be rewarded well for breaks and making everything a 20% droprate would either make the drops extremely common because of how many chances you get per monster, or if you change it to be 20% on carve or w/e, then why would people even both breaking parts?
 
D

Dark_3nergy

Member
TreIII said:
Ditto. There's a number of G4 monsters that I would love to see return. Besides your named three (and what I hope would be Shaggie, too), there's also Seltas Queen, Nerscylla, Najarala
Click to expand...

I also wouldn't mind adding Dalamadur to the list as long as we're not forced to do the mechanics for that particular fight.

Fighting a gigantic snake, in a large open world with physics to trap/harm it would be really great. Climbing it and adding climbing mechanics for the fight would make it a lot more interesting then what we had to do for the 3DS version.
 
E

Emperor_Uriel

Member
hans_castorp said:
Desire sensor has been quite benevolent these last entries, drop rates are fine imo.
Most monster go down in 10min at most, even shorter with more players. Farming a couple of hours usually gives all the materials you need, unless you are extremely unlucky.
Click to expand...

I mean, if the RNG was benevolent, then why is it taking you "a few hours of farming" to get anything? I don't think veterans realize how few new players are going to be willing to do that.

hans_castorp said:
For Generations in particular I don't even remember having to farm. A LR armour and any GS with decent raw can can carry you to the middle of HR.
Click to expand...

As someone who hasn't played beyond 3U, I'm curious just how much easier the series has actually become. I played Tri first, then 3U, then P3rd, and now I'm pushing through G-rank on MHFU.

I know everyone was saying that the styles in Generations made it much more accessible.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
It doesn't take a few hours to get "anything".

You could farm a Ludroth set in like an hour, maybe 30 minutes if you're in a group.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
Emperor_Uriel said:
I mean, if the RNG was benevolent, then why is it taking you "a few hours of farming" to get anything? I don't think veterans realize how few new players are going to be willing to do that.



As someone who hasn't played beyond 3U, I'm curious just how much easier the series has actually become. I played Tri first, then 3U, then P3rd, and now I'm pushing through G-rank on MHFU.

I know everyone was saying that the styles in Generations made it much more accessible.
Click to expand...

In my experience styles and arts made things more inaccessible for new players. They made the game easier but they made the game harder to understand for people not already into MH.
 
K

Khezu

Member
Raide said:
I want Lagi back but I know it won't happen.
Click to expand...

Lagi is one of my favorite monsters, but he's kinda boring with out water combat.

Unless they significantly overhaul him, he should just stay away until Capcom realizes the mistakes they made when removing under water combat.
 
R

Raide

Member
Khezu said:
Lagi is one of my favorite monsters, but he's kinda boring with out water combat.

Unless they significantly overhaul him, he should just stay away until Capcom realizes the mistakes they made when removing under water combat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the ground variant is just not as fun to beat. Shame.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Never understood the Lagiacrus love, one of the worst flagship monsters, a boring fight on land and under water is, well, under water combat! AKA, worst thing to ever happen to the series!

Look is all he got, if he's ever coming back, it should be a complete overhaul, in which case, they're better off with introducing a new monster... Like his cousin, the swap Lagi!
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
Sayad said:
Never understood the Lagiacrus love, one of the worst flagship monsters, a boring fight on land and under water, well, is under water combat! AKA, worst thing to ever happen to the series!

Look is all he got, if he's ever coming back, it should be a complete overhaul, in which case, they're better off with introducing a new monster... Like his cousin, the swap Lagi!
Click to expand...

Yeah but he is sooo cool looking and has a shit ton of breakable parts

They just need to make him more threatening on land and BOOM
 
D

Devilgunman

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
The difference, compared to other loot games like Destiny, Diablo and Borderlands, is that getting the drops you need is the only method of advancement. There's no experience points or perk trees that consistently reward players for investing their time, nor are there levels or additional enemies that offer their own separate rewards. You spent 10-20 minutes killing a single monster and either got the material you need to craft a better piece of gear, or you didn't and need to repeat that fight until you do.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point of MH here. Have you played MH before? You don't need rare drop to advance through the game. You can mix and match armours crafted from common materials. You can also upgrade your basic gear to higher level to fight tougher monsters. Gears crafted from rare drop are more like trophies to show off your achievement in the game. It's the main part of MH. You can't just take that away.
 
H

hans_castorp

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
As someone who hasn't played beyond 3U, I'm curious just how much easier the series has actually become. I played Tri first, then 3U, then P3rd, and now I'm pushing through G-rank on MHFU.

I know everyone was saying that the styles in Generations made it much more accessible.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily easier, but it has some nice QoL improvements.
Problem with styles was that depending on the weapon, some were really strong while other were useless.
But yeah, it made certain weapon more accessible. Bowshido comes to mind for example.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
Sayad said:
Never understood the Lagiacrus love, one of the worst flagship monsters, a boring fight on land and under water is, well, under water combat! AKA, worst thing to ever happen to the series!

Look is all he got, if he's ever coming back, it should be a complete overhaul, in which case, they're better off with introducing a new monster... Like his cousin, the swap Lagi!
Click to expand...

Mounting and monster fatigue are much worse additions to the series than underwater combat.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Kinsei said:
Mounting and monster fatigue are much worse additions to the series than underwater combat.
Click to expand...

At least mounting is avoidable if you don't like it, and fatigue, like it or hate it, isn't that big of a change compared to underwater combat.
 
H

Hybris

Member
Kinsei said:
Mounting and monster fatigue are much worse additions to the series than underwater combat.
Click to expand...

Agree on the mounting. Fatigue I can appreciate because it gives much needed buffs to hammer and HH. It also adds a lot of cool mechanics to fights like drugged meats and jho eating it's own tail to replenish stamina
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Kinsei said:
Mounting and monster fatigue are much worse additions to the series than underwater combat.
Click to expand...

Underwater combat sucks in almost every game that isn't totally about underwater combat, MH included. Mounting is a totally logical gameplay idea abs tactic for a game focused on fighting giant monsters. Fatigue I'm either here nor there and as long as it doesn't break the balance of things in fine with it.
 
A

Ally of Justice

Member
Sayad said:
Never understood the Lagiacrus love, one of the worst flagship monsters, a boring fight on land and under water is, well, under water combat! AKA, worst thing to ever happen to the series!

Look is all he got, if he's ever coming back, it should be a complete overhaul, in which case, they're better off with introducing a new monster... Like his cousin, the swap Lagi!
Click to expand...

Well, I loved underwater combat, Lagiacrus, Gobul and Underwater Royal Ludroth, plus Ceadeus! The sound design underwater was great too.

But even then, I can agree it was not the greatest implementation and would agree on an overhaul of underwater mechanics.

I remember Royal Ludroth being alright in Portable 3rd, but you cannot do justice to Lagiacrus or Gobul without their underwater parts, and the closest to Ceadeus would be something similar to the Mohrans...
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
Mounting was already improved in Generations when they let you attack the monster rather than just stand around and sharpen your weapons or take a might seed, alongside raising the mounting threshold. What they've shown of it in World so far looks even better, though I wouldn't mind them raising the mounting threshold more. Mounting in 4U was way too easy.

As for fatigue, I like having that around. Exhaust damage is incredibly helpful against monsters who are otherwise very aggressive i.e. brute wyverns, Tigrex, Yian Garuga. If anything, I think more monsters should have something like Deviljho's saliva inflicting defense down so that even when exhausted, the monsters are still somewhat threatening.
 
R

Rajang

Member
Kinsei said:
Mounting and monster fatigue are much worse additions to the series than underwater combat.
Click to expand...

Out of those three, underwater combat is definitely the worst.

Fatigue and mounting make the game incredibly easy though. I don't think any MH is hard past second gen.

I'm completely used to it now though.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
Another positive change, some of the armor abilities seem to have been combined:
mcbpe84o7ejz.jpg
Click to expand...
Saw this in some other MH thread, while using this system, if they implement negative skill effects the same way then it would be so much harder to get rid of negative effects, which would by great for the skill system.

For example, lets say "Roll Boost" is what's replacing evade skill:

Roll Boost skill
Lv 1: Evade +1
Lv 2: Evade +2, Stamina Cost +10%
Lv 3: Evade Distance +1, Stamina Cost +20%

Stamina Boost skill
Lv 1: Stamina Cost -10%
Lv 2: Stamina Cost -20%
Lv 3: Stamina Cost -30%

With this system to negate +20% stamina cost, you'd need at least 2 pieces of armor or a charm dedicated to stamina! In which case, it's better to just play with higher stamina cost and look for other buff skills! With this we'd end up with way less jack of all trades armor sets, and player will be forced to switch between sets depending on the hunt more so than before! :D
 
C

crinale

Member
Speaking of underwater, at MH3 series I liked underwater adventure but not the combat. I am very happy with what their decision regarding MHW.
 
S

ShemhazaiX

Member
Sayad said:
Saw this in some other MH thread, while using this system, if they implement negative skill effects the same way then it would be so much harder to get rid of negative effects, which would by great for the skill system.

For example, lets say "Roll Boost" is what's replacing evade skill:

Roll Boost skill
Lv 1: Evade +1
Lv 2: Evade +2, Stamina Cost +10%
Lv 3: Evade Distance +1, Stamina Cost +20%

Stamina Boost skill
Lv 1: Stamina Cost -10%
Lv 2: Stamina Cost -20%
Lv 3: Stamina Cost -30%

With this system to negate +20% stamina cost, you'd need at least 2 pieces of armor or a charm dedicated to stamina! In which case, it's better to just play with higher stamina cost and look for other buff skills! With this we'd end up with way less jack of all trades armor sets, and player will be forced to switch between sets depending on the hunt more so than before! :D
Click to expand...
We don't know how it is just yet, but I think it's more likely that negative skills will just have the same changes as the positive skills (assuming negatives still exist).

So you'd just have a negative attack skill point countered by putting in a positive attack point.
 
K

Khezu

Member
Sayad said:
Saw this in some other MH thread, while using this system, if they implement negative skill effects the same way then it would be so much harder to get rid of negative effects, which would by great for the skill system.

For example, lets say "Roll Boost" is what's replacing evade skill:

Roll Boost skill
Lv 1: Evade +1
Lv 2: Evade +2, Stamina Cost +10%
Lv 3: Evade Distance +1, Stamina Cost +20%

Stamina Boost skill
Lv 1: Stamina Cost -10%
Lv 2: Stamina Cost -20%
Lv 3: Stamina Cost -30%

With this system to negate +20% stamina cost, you'd need at least 2 pieces of armor or a charm dedicated to stamina! In which case, it's better to just play with higher stamina cost and look for other buff skills! With this we'd end up with way less jack of all trades armor sets, and player will be forced to switch between sets depending on the hunt more so than before! :D
Click to expand...

Hope so, it's so dumb how easy it is to remove negative skills.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
Kyoufu said:
It doesn't take a few hours to get "anything".

You could farm a Ludroth set in like an hour, maybe 30 minutes if you're in a group.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I never understood this mentality. With a full group, farming something with a 3% drop rate at best comes by in orderly fashion. The way people go on about the drop rates in MH, you would think they're as bad as the early days of PSU.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Ridley327 said:
Yeah, I never understood this mentality. With a full group, farming something with a 3% drop rate at best comes by in orderly fashion. The way people go on about the drop rates in MH, you would think they're as bad as the early days of PSU.
Click to expand...
Farming complaints are probably mostly from players who farmed something with under powered armor/weapon, when a single kill takes you ~40 minutes, that 5% drop rate sound brutal, I guess!
 
D

Defuser

Member
This is why you go bowgunning when it comes to farming for rare parts.

Clust 2 will make everything a joke and a breeze to farm. Same goes for spread shot.
 
S

Sayad

Member
That could have been a worthwhile addition on the handheld versions, but on a console with two thumb sticks, sacrificing accuracy isn't worth it.
 
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