-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Three Israelis killed in gun attack by Palestinian assailant
- Thread starter CCS
- Start date
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Yea, he's a killer and a murderer. But the word terrorist in the context of illegal settlements is not something you can just throw around and hope people swallow.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
While i technically agree with you in regards to the right wing israeli governments dominion over the people of Palestine causing these types of clashes...in regards to the word terrorist, you could basically argue that many Muslim terrorists are not actually terrorists because they are nudged along by US imperialism in their parts of the globe, and that's not really the case.
Anyone who does an attack like this is generally classified as a terrorist, and that's what this person was, regardless of the Israeli governments policies.
No doubt this attack will serve as a nice recruiting tool and another excuse for Netty to consider Palestinians sub human
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
What objective was his terror attempt trying to achieve?
Illegal settlements are a different breed of context. Closer to the oppression of south African apartheid, closer to what colonialists did in Africa.
US imperialism isn't any where close to apartheid. America isn't a country run by religious extremists for decades.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Mr. Giggles
Member
Suppress people long enough and stuff like this happens.
Give him any label you want but it's a great tool for politics and to continue the status quo
Give him any label you want but it's a great tool for politics and to continue the status quo
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
He's a vile murderer and a horrible killer.
I'll agree with you he's a terrorist when you agree killing hundreds of children and grabbing land from people illegally means the Israeli government is also run by terrorists.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Why do you need me to agree on your statement in order for you to realize he's a terrorist? He did a fucking awful thing, that makes him a terrorist.
nephilimdj
Member
Just think this man left his fenced off town, drove down a fenced off road, reached a wealthy jewish area, secruity guards noticed him acted suspiciously, he pulled a gun and killed 3 people
When you word it in reality, its not as black and white
When you word it in reality, its not as black and white
BlackDoomShadow
Member
I love how it took like three posts for someone to start suggesting Israelis deserve to get murdered because of some propaganda you read about on the internet.
So the US military is a terrorist organization, then? 'Cause, I mean, killing and terrorizing people, kind of our MO.
And honestly, if we're talking about the illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land, then this doesn't sound like murder. Sounds like rebellion against a conquering nation. We had a thread not too long ago about a statue to Nat Turner that seems like a pretty apt comparison here. Or the classic "contractors on the second Death Star" debate.
BlackDoomShadow
Member
There was a thread last month about the "Conan in Israel" special where people were demanding Conan's head because he did a brief spot with the IDF, and it's like, what the fuck do you guys think the US military has been doing the last 200 years? Planting flowers? I don't mind if someone is anti-war, but at least be consistent, Jesus.
What the actual fuck?
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Because words have meaning. Illegal settlements have a meaning, occupations have meaning, and terrorism does too. Based on your kind of thinking, everyone who commits murder inside an illegally occupied territory is automatically a terorrist. Terrorist are people who go after civilians for political ends. What political end was this man trying to achieve. And has it been confirmed any of the people killed were civilians.
PdotMichael
Banned
So long you don't provide anything that three people died just because they are Israelis then you have nothing to back up your nonsense.
astroturfing
Member
they dont deserve to be slaughtered. Israelis are human.
but its not propaganda that they are illegal settlers, landgrabbing provocators who want to destroy any chance of an independent Palestinian nation ever forming. just listen to what many of the settlers say, they dont give a single fuck. many of them are hardcore racists who think of arabs as dogs etc.
BlackDoomShadow
Member
You know who else are landgrabbing provocateurs who want to destroy any chance of an independent Middle East and are hardcore racists who think of Arabs as dogs? Americans.
Does America deserve to be attacked by terrorists like on 9/11?
Violence doesn't help the cause to peace. It's easy to identify with the oppressed during this whole thing but it doesn't make it right. It would be like encouraging black people to shoot police officers because the systeme is completely corrupt. The answer is to change the system, but who's going to do that? The Israel government is asking for trouble with their settlements, but it doesn't make it less bad when it actually happened.
So Israel also commits state terror then? And the colonists, whom shoot people on regular basis? Please let's not muddy this conflict further than it already is.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
It's also horrible to equate Israelis with settlers. Settlers are a religiously extremist group of people.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You're insinuating that it would be ok as long as the people killed weren't civilians.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Well no, but so doesnt the Palestinians who have had their land taken away from them for the past few decades.
What this person did was heinous. What Israel has been doing regarding Palestine is even more so.
Citation needed honey.
Good lord. What the fuck is this shit?
some people seem to be pretty unreasonable with this topic. We know about israeli government's enabling of systemic oppression, but that doesn't mean murdering israeli civilians is okay, nor does it absolve the attackers of their crimes.
Just as like murdering American civilians in the name of fighting against the US military state is also not justifiable
Just as like murdering American civilians in the name of fighting against the US military state is also not justifiable
BlackDoomShadow
Member
So if the Native Americans decide they want their land back and decide to start killing white people until their demands are met, are we okay with this? I'm just wondering what the statute of limitations is on violently retaking a colonized sovereign nation.
I'm totally fine with foreign rebels attacking American military personnel on their soil. Same for any civilian contractors aiding the American military.
Similarly, an illegal settlement on Palestinian land is a fair target, including anyone there. Especially armed security officers, who sound like the victims in this instance (article is unclear on this, but it sounds like the altercation happened at the security gate).
or native americans raiding american settlements as we took their land and killed many more of their people. Violence is unfortunate but it's naive to treat this like a random murderer in some normal country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uLbeQlwjw
It's a complex issue with a lot of grey area but people like to try and simplify it with black and white labels like terrorist and lofty pontifications about how violence is always bad. Sorry, world isn't so simple.
Are you seriously surprised that there's a murder defense force on GAF?
I mean, we even had ISIS supporters here.
They did, there were quite a few uprisings. It however was not called terrorism, usually an uprising or rebellion. Again it is a tragic conflict, and I love Israel, but please don't muddy things further this was a settlement and this is tragic. But calling this terror will also mean that the next shooting by a colonist is terror.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Listen mate, you're genuinely chatting shit.
And then to talk about Star Wars - sort your life out.
For the record, the article has been updated and two of the three killed were civilians.
llien
Member
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Yeah it's terrorism.
The illegal settlements complicate matters because you're complicit in the ethnic cleansing. To draw a parallel between these individuals and other civilians isn't apt because they've specifically chosen to live on literal stolen Palestinian land that is deemed illegal by international law.
Rest in peace nonetheless.
The illegal settlements complicate matters because you're complicit in the ethnic cleansing. To draw a parallel between these individuals and other civilians isn't apt because they've specifically chosen to live on literal stolen Palestinian land that is deemed illegal by international law.
Rest in peace nonetheless.
KonradLaw
Member
If he aimed at killing civilians he's a terrorist.
This is true. But do you not see the distinction between say a civilian living in Tel Aviv versus one living on a settlement in the occupied territories?
HarryHengst
Member
All armies are. Lets take the definition of terrorism: 'Terrorism describes the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror, or fear, to achieve a political, religious or ideological aim.'
Sounds like any army, and especially the US army.
Sunster
Member
Israelis seem to be the only ones with any power to change it. Palestinians have literally 0 power. Feel terrible for the victims, I hope this doesn't bring more violence.
KonradLaw
Member
As far as him being classified as a terrorist? No.
That's not what I'm asking. Nevermind what Plasma is saying, not that I would necessarily disagree with it. But this is really the key issue.
Civilian... security guards. At an illegal settlement.
Like, I don't care who signs your paycheck at that point. PMC soldiers are legally considered civilians, too. But characterizing someone whose job is to literally stand in occupied territory with a gun and shoot anyone who tries to take it back as a "civilian" is not in line with my definition of the term.
KonradLaw
Member
Well, obviously the whole palestinian/Israeli's situation is pure shitstorm and it's not a simple case of evil terrorists attacking innocent civilians for no reason other than their ideology. As heinous as the acts of terror are there's no denying it's in Israel's goverment interest to stoke the flames of hatred and stop descalating the tensions.
All settlements are illegal under international law.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Fighting to reclaim stolen land is terrorism now?
Similar threads
- Locked