-Pyromaniac-
Member
It utterly blows my mind that they didn't take this time, where they were already overhauling the game anyway, to try and build it around a free 2 play model which would be much more sustainable.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
There are almost 300 Square Enix employees on Final Fantasy XIV excluding outsourcing
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
You think if they were to successfully revive a dead MMO it would be a small step in repairing their brand? That's insane. It's no wonder devs can't ever meet player's demands and expectations. A small step was FFXIII-2, don't get it twisted.
Because rebuilding the game around a F2P model would appears as if they're throwing in the towel and also they're looking for their ROI 2-5 years down the road. I will be incredibly surprised if the game succeeds and turns a profit at the end of FY2014. The game needs to and is expected to by higher ups/investors to surpass it's predecessor in lifespan and hopefully revenue.
In order to make a comeback, this game does not need WoW numbers since it already has an established fanbase. That is of course, if the game is not just up to standards when released, but is also fun to play. Their "ace in the hole" here is the fact that the PS3 version was never released and when it is eventually released it'll have to receive brand new reviews from critics.
After seeing the patches that Yoshida's team has put out for the current version of the game (with obvious server/client flaws) and given his background and the obvious direction in which the game is going I think it's a safe bet. Given the amount of failed MMOs out there... if any company can revive an MMO - it's them. These are the reasons I picked SE for my longs (that and their solid lineup for the remainder of fiscal year).
To be fair to Yoshida and his team, at least they're getting things done in a timely manner, keeping up with the community and listening to and then applying their feedback, and genuinely believe in what they're doing. They're probably the only team at SE who has lived up to past promises as of late and I respect them for it.
Yoshida is the most open and honest Japanese developer I've spoken to, something the likes of Nomura and Kitase could learn from really.
While the FFXIV team is indeed large, it doesn't mean that the other teams are sitting around with barely any staff members.
Yoshida is the most open and honest Japanese developer I've spoken to, something the likes of Nomura and Kitase could learn from really.
While the FFXIV team is indeed large, it doesn't mean that the other teams are sitting around with barely any staff members.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I feel like a F2P model would kind of cheapen the brand and product. Normally I wouldn't think that as I'm a big fan of F2P games but FF is this 'luxury' type of IP noted for its huge production values, hard to explain lol. So F2P could hurt the brand and it's already hurting from 13.
aliencowz7
Member
Even though i have a bit of a crappy past with ffxi and ffxiv I cant help be feel like trying xiv out again based only off the team leading it now. He really has a good head on his shoulders and seems capable of implementing some western development techniques without losing the games identity.
You can kind of just feel the passion he has for the project just by reading his little blog things and it is a farcry from what the old head used to do to ffxi and ffxiv.
dragonflys545
Member
After seeing how Star Wars turn out. I wish them the best of luck.
KH on handhelds seems really profitable likewise for FF13-2. Relatively low dev costs and decent sales. In the wake of FFXI a new MMO really wasn't a bad idea, it's just that the game was fundamentally broken.
It's definitely a shockingly high number, but the results so far have been pretty good IMO. Current FFXIV is a lot of fun. I can't see them making the same mistakes with the relaunch.
The real challenge is going to be getting the word out to everyone that it's going to be an entirely new game. The new name sounds more like an expansion pack than a rebuilt title.
Also, with the launch right around the corner, wouldn't the team size begin to decrease?
The real challenge is going to be getting the word out to everyone that it's going to be an entirely new game. The new name sounds more like an expansion pack than a rebuilt title.
Also, with the launch right around the corner, wouldn't the team size begin to decrease?
It'll decrease a little once they move all resources working on 1.23a/b/c to 2.0 staff and people that were pulled from other projects go back to what they were initially working on.
I would've guessed that, it's just been a long time for a Kingdom Hearts game to be on a console, the handheld games are actually great too.
I heard that FF13-2 shipped a lot but it didn't sell as well as other Final Fantasy's comparatively, if it had a low dev costs then it would've made money back with how many copies were sold.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
So a good chunk of these people will go on to new projects when it's finally out next year, right? Or will they be stuck making expansions and updates while the rest of Square's internal output stays non-existent?
This is such a shitty situation for someone who doesn't care for MMOs at all :/
This is such a shitty situation for someone who doesn't care for MMOs at all :/
aliencowz7
Member
Kind of hard to tell what volume will go back to single player games, I mean 90% of there top talent must be on an mmo at this point between ffxiv 2.0, the new ffxi exspansion and dragon quest 10.
I wouldn't be surprised if alot of the people that got pulled to 14 end up working on 11 or dq10.
I'm sure you speak for everyone.
TBH TOR is just wow clone with licence not suitable for mmos. I mean what sweet loot you can get in TOR? Same-y looking robes and lightsabers, everything screams boring.
Messofanego
Banned
What's the world record on how many developers have worked on a game? Assassin Creed has like more than 600.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yes.
So basically it's going to fail. Once GW2 drops no one will really care about this.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
I think SE should model FFXIV as how Guildwars is, maybe even try to sneak in a small sub fee of monthly for extra goodies @$4.99/month
(More slots/bigger inventory/dlc + expansion free)
DLC/Expansion $19.99 each if you don't sub
F2P FFXIV would be a disaster just to SE being SE
Can you imagine them cock-blocking you at every turn, making micro-transactions by SE methods... no thanks
(More slots/bigger inventory/dlc + expansion free)
DLC/Expansion $19.99 each if you don't sub
F2P FFXIV would be a disaster just to SE being SE
Can you imagine them cock-blocking you at every turn, making micro-transactions by SE methods... no thanks
just saying, This game a real mess-Pyromaniac-
Member
F2P isn't just a fad for games with smaller budgets or something, it's arguably the future of gaming, definitely the future of MMOs.
I don't even see it as throwing in the towel either. In fact it would be wholly impressive if they were able to build a game that offers a lot of value for those who play for free, but even more value for those who choose to pay, and a model that makes those free users WANT to pay. To me that's far more impressive than fixing some mechanics and then relaunching and hoping for the best.
Also at this point in time, looking like you're throwing in the towel isn't even an issue, they are far beyond that. The towel was already thrown on. This game launched a long ass time ago. It would show that they are utterly serious about this game being everything it could be. That's just me though. I'm sure it'll find SOME audience.
ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
Yoichi Wada is the next Curt Schilling confirmed! Nope.
I think they are in a really good position to make this work. As someone else already pointed out, the company posted a profit last year (somewhat carried by Eidos and Dragon Quest) while still working heavily and spending a large amount of resources on this game.
Square has to their advantage:
1. A large dedicated fanbase
2. A frothing FFXI installed player base ready for the next great FF MMO
3. One of the only next generation MMOs that will have a presence on consoles
4. The MMO market in Japan is entirely different from the US and Japan will be one of the major markets for this game
5. FFXIV 2.0 will be launching in several different markets (US, Japan, Europe, China, etc.)
6. Since Yoshida, the team has maintained an open line of communication with the community and lived up to their promises, restoring faith in the current player base and growing it.
7. The title is being marketed as a new entry in the Final Fantasy series. It's Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn rather than FFXIV 2.0. All materials on the new site barely reference the old game at all.
8. Launching during a window when players will be looking for new MMO experiences
I think they are in a really good position to make this work. As someone else already pointed out, the company posted a profit last year (somewhat carried by Eidos and Dragon Quest) while still working heavily and spending a large amount of resources on this game.
Square has to their advantage:
1. A large dedicated fanbase
2. A frothing FFXI installed player base ready for the next great FF MMO
3. One of the only next generation MMOs that will have a presence on consoles
4. The MMO market in Japan is entirely different from the US and Japan will be one of the major markets for this game
5. FFXIV 2.0 will be launching in several different markets (US, Japan, Europe, China, etc.)
6. Since Yoshida, the team has maintained an open line of communication with the community and lived up to their promises, restoring faith in the current player base and growing it.
7. The title is being marketed as a new entry in the Final Fantasy series. It's Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn rather than FFXIV 2.0. All materials on the new site barely reference the old game at all.
8. Launching during a window when players will be looking for new MMO experiences
Relaxed Muscle
Member
While GW2 has very high chances of being a big success I don't believe it means FF XIV will die because of GW2.
I feel that while being MMO, both of them are quite different and definetly appeal to different ppl. FF XIV will be fine with FF XI numbers and I think they have chances of doing so, regardless of any other MMO on the market.
Shouta
Member
It won't fail in Japan if they handle it right Unlike the US, a F2P model is seen as cheap and bad there which is why they haven't swapped to the model. They're banking on steady revenue from Japan and any additional income from other countries is kind of icing, I think.
InfiniDragon
Member
They already have.
2.0 will only make it even better. I don't know if it will ever get the success they want but they worked their asses off to make this thing work and I'd much rather play this game in it's current state than Rift, SWTOR or Tera.
Haunted
Member
But is the Japanese MMO market even big enough to sustain a title of that size?
I guess they could always make it F2P in certain territories and keep it subscription based in Japan, like Capcom did with Monster Hunter iirc.
Made me laugh, then I felt bad.
Despite my criticism and snarkiness, I quite like S-E, they've given me a lot of good memories over the years, and recently as well. I want them doing well and cheer for them, but they haven't made it easy.
MadSkillzBahamut
Member
If they make it free with micro-transactions people will just play it because it's free. If it's actually a good game people will keep playing.
Money.
I know they know this, but i get the idea that Square-Enix have got some kind of pride-based willful ignorance.
Money.
I know they know this, but i get the idea that Square-Enix have got some kind of pride-based willful ignorance.
Given the recent updates put out by the new team... this game just needs to be:
1. Functional in terms of client/server, UI and overall game smoothness.
2. Be fun. Some people are enjoying FFXIV now with all it's problems (ones above)... If the game is functional, word of mouth will spread, the new game will get a decent review and the population will grow.
As long as the two things above are resolved, the fact that this game is called Final Fantasy will carry it.
It's actually pretty simple.
Riposte
Member
Their success with FFXI made them lazy(for lack of a better word. They weren't "hungry"). This was just as true for XI as it turned out to be with XIV. It has taken them years to improve on basic things for XI and they (or whoever was pushing them) thought they could just do that again with a new MMO. I mean most MMOs spike and then sink, but FFXI was a solid #2 for almost an entire decade. On top of this it seems crystal clear that XIV had major development issues. The engine it runs on is really terrible and oddly restrictive. I believe it had been worked out for years and years and the team was forced to push it out when it clearly wasn't ready. You can probably draw a lot of parallels between it and FFXIII in terms of how long it took to get it down, but MMOs are much more difficult. One thing that makes all of this seem worthwhile is that they have made fundamental changes to the game's engine and content creation. Hopefully for SE the Luminous Engine and derivative systems (which FFXIV uses) will be much more usable. This is what was ultimately failing them this generation, despite how bitter fanboys like to picture it (I mean imagine all the games bitter FF fans don't like which are wildly successful?).
Personally I dislike MMO development and think people should stop making them in favor of more "single-player" games with high connectivity(e.g. Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, etc). I mean people want Versus to come out already, but at least that's still coming. What if they could have made a "The Last Remnant 2" instead? However if you are going to make them (or be one of the last ones to make them until "freenium" models drop them into mediocrity), don't just let them die like TOR. FFXIV 2.0 has me impressed.
I think SE would be smart to make a "single-player" version of the game's main storylines that exists within the MMO world. A single payment of 30-60 dollars for permanent access to a limited set of features and content. Add in a FFXII-like NPC party mode for solo play. This gives you another game to sell outside MMO market for each expansion, which sort of recreates the consistency they want out of a MMO.
Shalashaska161
Member
I hope for their sake they are able to turn it around. Though it's going to be difficult now to shake that bad rap the game got when it first came out. From what I hear though they've really improved the game a lot.
Yeah...it won't be free-to-play, it would mean that they'd be admitting failure and defeat and Square won't do that on a numbered FF title after spending so much money to rebuild it. People really need to realise this.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Eh-yup. Launching a box & subscription model MMO in this age of "community is an afterthought" "faster faster now now" and "we've been promised to see all content!!!!11" school of design that is that model's anathema is dangerously difficult, re-launching one after that trainwreck that was XIV ver. 1.0 is even more difficult.
They needed a replacement to XI eventually. They shoulda thought about this fact at least two years ago, before 1.0, and before the market turned on box&monthy. Not now.
That resume doesn't really address the problems with the FF14 interface, though. The biggest problem was that they obviously had no idea how to design a competent mouse and keyboard UI. Not saying they can't fix it in 2.0, but past experience with controller-based UIs is not what was lacking before.
In spite of my negativity, I hope the re-launch is a success. I can't think of any other company ever having done something like this in the wake of a botched release, so it'll definitely be interesting to see if they can make the second launch stick. I do plan to check it out myself, but my expectations are pretty low.
Haunted
Member
StrikerObi
Member
Very good point. But that doesn't explain why Square is still pouring money into this one trying to "save" it. They never will. If they were smart they would cut their losses on it.
cpp_is_king
Member
Many people seem to not understand that f2p actually brings in more revenue than subscription alot of the time. But companies who have no experience with it are understandably scared to take such a big risk on such a big investment.
I do think that ffxiv will eventually introduce a f2p option in a similar vain to what SWTOR recently announced. I think thats actually a great model. You get To play the whole game, but just with some limitations
I guess you can say thats admitting defeat, but its actually just increasing revenue. SWTOR has probably 900k subscribers. Thats alot. There's nothing defeatist about them going f2p because its hard to argue that an mmo with 900k subscribers is anywhere close to defeated. the same would be true for ff14, assuming v 2.0 ends up actually being as good as it looks
Agreed about F2P. The AppStore has proven this, nearly all top grossing games are freemium. Freemium brings in more people, and so many end up spending more than what they would in a subscription model. It's like a drug dealer giving samples to new customers.