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The1Ski
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(08-13-2017, 08:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Doctoglethorpe

Time limits are really fucking stupid. Probably won't be playing many nightfalls now. :/

Yep. Expect a ton of players disconnecting if you don't get to 'x' checkpoint with 'y' amount of time left.

I suppose it's tough to blame people. Why push the same strike it might be literally impossible to complete in the time remaining.
Ominym
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(08-13-2017, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by FyreWulff

But it's Nightfall. It's supposed to be challenging. If you want unlimited time, play the regular Strike version?

I understand it's a Nightfall, it doesn't change my opinion. There are better and more interesting ways to add challenge than slapping a time limit on something.

It's a design team demanding that you play like they want instead of listening to their user base.

Was there anyone clamoring for the addition of a time limit?
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(08-13-2017, 08:46 AM)

Originally Posted by Ominym

It's a design team demanding that you play like they want instead of listening to their user base.

... you've always had to play like they want for Nightfall. That's the point of Nightfall. There's NFs where you can't jump because of a modifier that makes jumping triple your incoming damage. There's a modifier that functionally takes away your grenades and melee ability. There's modifiers that take away your radar.

There's a few head scratchers I have for D2 stuff. A NF time limit isn't one of them, but is rather expected, especially since a time limit mechanic exists in Destiny 1 right now and has for almost the past year with no major complaints that I've seen.
Ominym
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(08-13-2017, 08:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by FyreWulff

... you've always had to play like they want for Nightfall. That's the point of Nightfall. There's NFs where you can't jump because of a modifier that makes jumping triple your incoming damage. There's a modifier that functionally takes away your grenades and melee ability. There's modifiers that take away your radar.

There's a few head scratchers I have for D2 stuff. A NF time limit isn't one of them, but is rather expected, especially since a time limit mechanic exists in Destiny 1 right now and has for almost the past year with no major complaints that I've seen.

Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.

Regarding Destiny 1, my opinion remains unswayed. It's just as bad there as it is here.

I would love to see the research Bungie did that determined that this is what the playerbase wanted and be proven wrong. Realistically however, I suspect that they didn't do any and made system-level changes because they didn't like how players were legitimately playing their game.
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(08-13-2017, 08:57 AM)

Originally Posted by Ominym

Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.

Regarding Destiny 1, my opinion remains unswayed. It's just as bad there as it is here.

I would love to see the research Bungie did that determined that this is what the playerbase wanted and be proven wrong. Realistically however, I suspect that they didn't do any and made system-level changes because they didn't like how players were legitimately playing their game.

Your perception of how Bungie works internally and how they actually work internally don't match up. If it backfires, they'll remove it from the game. Just like they did with other things that didn't pan out or backfired in Destiny 1.
Ominym
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(08-13-2017, 09:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by FyreWulff

Your perception of how Bungie works internally and how they actually work internally don't match up. If it backfires, they'll remove it from the game. Just like they did with other things that didn't pan out or backfired in Destiny 1.

Alright then, I'll take your word for it.
GhaleonEB
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(08-13-2017, 09:17 AM)
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Speculation: I wonder if the time limits on the Nightfall are only in place in the Heroic mode. Might be one of the differentiating factors between it and normal.
kiaaa
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(08-13-2017, 09:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

Speculation: I wonder if the time limits on the Nightfall are only in place in the Heroic mode. Might be one of the differentiating factors between it and normal.

Is that new? NFs were one difficulty in D1.
panda-zebra
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(08-13-2017, 09:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

Speculation: I wonder if the time limits on the Nightfall are only in place in the Heroic mode. Might be one of the differentiating factors between it and normal.

Seems reasonable.

Attacking a strike and seeing how best to deal with it with modifiers and without time constraints, and doing that with added difficulty and a time limit if you want the goodies. that would be fair and reasonable.
robo
Member
(08-13-2017, 09:44 AM)
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As long as the herioc/time limited is an extra reward im ok with it.

Normal nf, 1*legendary or exoctic reward
Herioc nf. 2*legendary or exoctic reward

If they drop the normal nf to blue rewards then screw that.
kiaaa
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(08-13-2017, 09:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by robo

As long as the herioc/time limited is an extra reward im ok with it.

Normal nf, 1*legendary or exoctic reward
Herioc nf. 2*legendary or exoctic reward

If they drop the normal nf to blue rewards then screw that.

I kinda hated D1 NF rewards even though I usually got pretty lucky. Having the chance to just drop strange coins or 3oC was pretty bullshit and some of those exotics were NF drop only.
Abylim
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(08-13-2017, 10:00 AM)
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I haven't been keeping up. How have hunters been nerfed?
panda-zebra
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(08-13-2017, 10:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Abylim

I haven't been keeping up. How have hunters been nerfed?

Think people were saying they looked left behind given titan's obvious OP abilities and warlock's voodoo.
Ramirez
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(08-13-2017, 10:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

Speculation: I wonder if the time limits on the Nightfall are only in place in the Heroic mode. Might be one of the differentiating factors between it and normal.

I was basically called an idiot last page for questioning that there might be two versions of the NF, lol.
broony
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(08-13-2017, 10:49 AM)
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Sounds like there is going to be plenty of content. Can't wait.
Nodnol
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:14 AM)
This is taken from Reddit user The_Doctor_Zoose, but it's a list, in order, of D1's missions, strikes and Raids. It also includes some of the remixed Strikes, so you could argue they hardly count as "new".

Seems when I said D2 will be D1 plus all DLC, I wasn't far off! I don't think D2 will get the same content outcry that D1 faced at launch.


Originally Posted by The_Doctor_Zoose

ACT I: NOTHING LEFT BUT THE FALL

1. A Guardian Rises (Story - Earth - Fallen)
2. Restoration (Story - Earth - Fallen)
3. The Warmind (Story - Earth - Fallen)
4. The Last Array (Story - Earth - Fallen)
5. The Devil's Lair (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
ACT II: AGAINST THE HIVE

6. The Dark Within (Story - Earth - Hive)
7. The Dark Beyond (Story - Moon - Hive)
8. The World's Grave (Story - Moon - Hive)
9. Chamber of Night (Story - Moon - Hive)
10. The Summoning Pits (Strike - Moon - Hive)
ACT III: FRUIT OF THE GARDEN

11. A Stranger's Call (Story - Venus - Vex)
12. Ishtar Collective (Story - Venus - Vex)
13. Eye of a Gate Lord (Story - Venus - Vex)
14. Exclusion Zone (Story - Mars - Cabal)
15. Rising Tide (Story - Mars -Vex)
16. The Garden's Spire (Story - Mars - Cabal)
17. The Black Garden (Story - Mars - Vex)
INTERLUDE I: MARS, THE BRINGER OF WAR

18. The Buried City (Story - Mars - Cabal)
19. Cerberus Vae III (Strike - Mars - Cabal)
20. The Dust Palace (Strike - Mars - Cabal)
ACT IV: PRAEDYTH'S REVENGE

21. The Nexus (Strike - Venus - Vex)
22. The Archive (Story - Venus - Fallen)
23. The Vault of Glass (Raid - Venus - Vex)
ACT V: THE DARK BELOW

24. The Sword of Crota (Story - Moon - Hive)
25. Fist of Crota (Story - Earth - Hive)
26. Siege of the Warmind (Story - Earth - Hive)
27. The Wakening (Story - Moon - Hive)
28. Will of Crota (Strike - Earth - Hive)
29. Crota's End (Raid - Moon - Hive)
ACT VI: HOUSE OF WOLVES

30. Scourge of Winter (Story - Venus - Fallen)
31. Winter's Run (Strike - Venus - Fallen)
32. A Kell Rising (Story - Venus - Fallen)
33. The Silent Fang (Story - Earth - Fallen)
34. The Ruling House (Story - Earth - Fallen)
35. Wolves' Gambit (Story - Venus - Fallen)
36. Queen's Ransom (Story - Venus - Fallen)
37. The Shadow Thief (Strike - Moon - Fallen)
38. Skolas' Revenge (RaidÜ - Reef - Fallen)
INTERLUDE II: RETURN OF THE VEX

39. The Undying Mind (Strike - Venus - Vex)
40. Echo Chamber (Strike - Venus - Vex)ÜÜ
ACT VII: ORYX, THE TAKEN KING

41. Shrine of Oryx (Story - Moon - Hive)
42. The Coming War (Story - Phobos - Taken)
43. Cayde's Stash (Story - Earth - Taken)
44. The Dreadnaught (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
45. The Sunless Cell (Strike - Dreadnaught - Hive)
46. Enemy of my Enemy (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
47. Lost to Light (Story - Moon - Taken)
48. The Promethean Code (Story - Earth - Taken)
49. Last Rites (Story - Moon - Taken)
50. Regicide (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
ACT VIII: THE TAKEN WAR

51. Shield Brothers (Strike - Dreadnaught - Cabal)
52. Blighted Coven (Story - Earth - Taken)
53. Paradox (Story - Venus - Taken)
54. Tenebrous Tunnels (Story - Mars - Taken)
55. Outbound Signal (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
56. Kings of Decay (Story - Earth - Taken)
57. Entropy's Pinnacle (Story - Venus - Taken)
58. Winter's Run (Taken) (Strike - Venus - Taken)
59. Summoner's Circle (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
60. Fear's Embrace (Story - Phobos - Taken)
ACT IX: KING'S FALL

61. King's Fall (Raid - Dreadnaught - Hive)
62. Pretender to the Throne (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
63. Blighted Chalice (Strike - Moon - Taken)
INTERLUDE III: WOLVES OF MARS

64. A New Den (Story - Mars - Fallen)
65. Knock, Knock (Story - Mars - Fallen)
66. Prime's Path (Story - Mars - Fallen)
ACT X: RISE OF IRON

67. Fallen S.A.B.E.R. (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
68. King of the Mountain (Story - Earth - Fallen)
69. The Walls Come Down (Story - Earth - Fallen)
70. The Plaguelands (Story - Earth - Fallen)
71. Download Complete (Story - Mars - Cabal)
72. Iron Tomb (Story - Earth - Fallen)
73. Bad Blood (Story - Earth - Fallen)
74. The Wretched Eye (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
75. The Abomination Heist (Strike - Moon - Fallen)
76. Sepiks Perfected (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
77. Wrath of the Machine (Raid - Earth - Fallen)

Renkax
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:16 AM)
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You can never have too much content
SprachBrooks
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:29 AM)
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Time limit? Fuuuuck that.
anothertech
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:37 AM)
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If they're really giving us D1plus all dlc amount of content, color me impressed.

But I gotta see some receipts
Omeganex9999
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(08-13-2017, 11:44 AM)
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Just a few more days, guys. Just a few more days and gaming will be great again if Bungie doesn't fuck everything up.
Makikou
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(08-13-2017, 12:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omeganex9999

Just a few more days, guys. Just a few more days and gaming will be great again if Bungie doesn't fuck everything up.

You mean 3 weeks and 3 days approximately zzzz
CrudeDiatribe
Member
(08-13-2017, 01:56 PM)
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Really don't understand the NF time limit hate. Have solo'd a bunch of them easily in the 30 minutes we get now.

Yeah, some modifier/strike combos are a ballache and some are ridiculously fun; I expect this to continue.
silver.tongue
Member
(08-13-2017, 02:06 PM)
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Ppl worried about the "time limit" really?

We were soloing nightfalls in under 15 minutes while having a 30 min goal for strike scoring... we will be fine. Chill.
blue_phazon
Member
(08-13-2017, 02:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nodnol

This is taken from Reddit user The_Doctor_Zoose, but it's a list, in order, of D1's missions, strikes and Raids. It also includes some of the remixed Strikes, so you could argue they hardly count as "new".

Seems when I said D2 will be D1 plus all DLC, I wasn't far off! I don't think D2 will get the same content outcry that D1 faced at launch.

Except the "80 missions" number for D2 likely includes all the missions and sidequests in the patrol mode. In terms of simply story missions and strikes, we'll probably get the same amount as D1.

But that's not bad to me at all, because D2 will have way more patrol stuff to do. The problem with D1 was that the story and strike missions were pretty much the ONLY thing in the game with meat
Succinct Verbosity
Member
(08-13-2017, 02:08 PM)

Originally Posted by deoee

There's so much new content that at one point in development they realised they had more content than progression (something they've subsequently fixed)

?

The cynic in me makes me think they ripped it out and will put it in dlc.
electricpirate
Member
(08-13-2017, 02:12 PM)
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Axiomatic "Mechanics x is always Bad" takes never work out that well.

Time limits sound great, and it's kind of exactly what Nightfalls has needed. Iteration 1 had great tension, but it resorted to cheesing strategies that weren't that fun to execute. Iteration 2 had standard play, but the whole activity was pretty boring.

I think people failing out of NFs multiple times is great,

Timeouts in gemeral are an under appreciated mechanic
electricpirate
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(08-13-2017, 02:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by blue_phazon

Except the "80 missions" number for D2 likely includes all the missions and sidequests in the patrol mode. In terms of simply story missions and strikes, we'll probably get the same amount as D1.

But that's not bad to me at all, because D2 will have way more patrol stuff to do. The problem with D1 was that the story and strike missions were pretty much the ONLY thing in the game with meat

FWIW a number of the listed missions here are sidequests from ttk. Just the named parts of the missions you'd fly into though.
Nodnol
Member
(08-13-2017, 02:33 PM)

Originally Posted by blue_phazon

Except the "80 missions" number for D2 likely includes all the missions and sidequests in the patrol mode. In terms of simply story missions and strikes, we'll probably get the same amount as D1.

But that's not bad to me at all, because D2 will have way more patrol stuff to do. The problem with D1 was that the story and strike missions were pretty much the ONLY thing in the game with meat

Of course, but we also know there's 50+ cutscenes, more so than the original plus extra content.

All we can assume I guess, is D2 is a meatier game than the first. That's not hard given the state of vanilla Destiny, but still. I'd bet anything that D2's campaign is significantly longer than D1's.

Something really interesting in the interview is Mark Noseworthy says, in relation to the lack of progression and so much content, that a one point they realized at hour 55, progression was done yet there were still things to do.

Hour 55 and we're probably going to be still progessing (after they readjusted things)!? I know some will be cynical and just say they've slowed the progression down and made the grind real, but you'd have to imagine that like The Taken King, we're going to have quests and side quests and all the other new mechanics coming out of wars.

I also still think we're getting a third subclass per class and they're just keeping quiet.
Rexatality
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(08-13-2017, 02:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aaron Olive

See... everyone criticized me for saying Bungie be removing content just so they can sell it back to the customers, I said it before and Iíll say it again Iím not buying this game till all the DLC is finished, see ya September 2019 Bungie and thatís if the Game is even worth buying by then.

Okay enjoy missing out the fun of Year 1 and have the game outdated by the time Destiny 3 is released
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(08-13-2017, 03:01 PM)

Originally Posted by Aaron Olive

See... everyone criticized me for saying Bungie be removing content just so they can sell it back to the customers, I said it before and Iíll say it again Iím not buying this game till all the DLC is finished, see ya September 2019 Bungie and thatís if the Game is even worth buying by then.

There hasn't been content held back to become DLC in Destiny's entire history though. What was done at the time was what went out.

And before people post early screenshots of areas that showed up prerelease.. Bungie makes geometry first, and actually makes it playable after, so no, that wasn't finished content.
Juan
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(08-13-2017, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nodnol

Hour 55 and we're probably going to be still progessing (after they readjusted things)!? I know some will be cynical and just say they've slowed the progression down and made the grind real, but you'd have to imagine that like The Taken King, we're going to have quests and side quests and all the other new mechanics coming out of wars.

I also still think we're getting a third subclass per class and they're just keeping quiet.

Oh you will, for sure. In next year expansion.

Also, if we're still leveling to level 20 after 55 hours (that's what I hear when they say "progressing", but I might be wrong ofc)...

Originally Posted by FyreWulff

There hasn't been content held back to become DLC in Destiny's entire history though. What was done at the time was what went out.

And before people post early screenshots of areas that showed up prerelease.. Bungie makes geometry first, and actually makes it playable after, so no, that wasn't finished content.

Hmm, no, you don't make the geometry first, at least not with that much details we saw during launch trailers and other promoting videos. Content was clearly playable, but it didn't make the cut, somehow like Halo 2 content was cut even if it was playable (but not finished entirely). You may make grey boxes and a vertical slice, but that's something else.

For D1, we could even go to areas before having the DLC by glitching out of the map, so I would be a soft lie to tell Bungie didn't cut content to put in the future DLCs. But it would be true to say the content they cut for DLCs wasn't 100% finished at the time the game launched, for sure, I agree.

Originally Posted by Rexatality

Okay enjoy missing out the fun of Year 1 and have the game outdated by the time Destiny 3 is released

Having two primaries already take out the fun (at least for me), so I won't be bothered if I miss year 1 and start the game in Year 2 with the latest expansion and all the year 1 DLCs.
Rexatality
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(08-13-2017, 03:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Juan

Having two primaries already take out the fun (at least for me), so I won't be bothered if I miss year 1 and start the game in Year 2 with the latest expansion and all the year 1 DLCs.

Your loss, I guess.

At least I'm not that spiteful
Juan
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(08-13-2017, 04:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rexatality

Your loss, I guess.

At least I'm not that spiteful

Well, you're the only one seeing a loss here, but hey, that''s just your opinion in the end.
Trakan
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(08-13-2017, 04:09 PM)
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If adding a time limit means the rewards go back to being worth a damn, I'm all for it.
Ominym
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(08-13-2017, 04:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by silver.tongue

Ppl worried about the "time limit" really?

We were soloing nightfalls in under 15 minutes while having a 30 min goal for strike scoring... we will be fine. Chill.

Really depends on how strict the time limit is and what the rewards are. Some people (myself included) find time limits to be horribly oppressive regardless of length.

If it results in player behavior where people bail the moment certain milestones aren't reached at par time? That's going to be a pretty negative experience for all involved.

As I brought up before in this thread, I hope Bungie did their UX research for this choice.
JHall
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(08-13-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Abylim

I haven't been keeping up. How have hunters been nerfed?

It's not really a direct nerf. Titans and Warlocks have been given more appealing abilities and supers while the Hunters get a very questionable class ability and a slower, less agile arc blade.
Theorry
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(08-13-2017, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by JHall

It's not really a direct nerf. Titans and Warlocks have been given more appealing abilities and supers while the Hunters get a very questionable class ability and a slower, less agile arc blade.

Wich finally drops orbs tho.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
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(08-13-2017, 05:13 PM)
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Edge playtesters said after 55 hours there was still stuff they haven't found. I can't really verify as it is just comments from reddit.
SomethingInTheSea
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(08-13-2017, 05:29 PM)
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They'd be better off having each strike segment be time limited rather than the whole thing, that way people wouldn't drop and it's allowing you the chance to actually learn from the encounter. Making you do the whole strike over from the start is just a waste of everybody's time and is going to encourage the most cookie cutter builds imaginable as the penalty for failure is so high time wise.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(08-13-2017, 05:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by kiaaa

Is that new? NFs were one difficulty in D1.

Yes. They've created a normal version of the Nightfall, which kind of defeats the purpose of the Nightfall. No one is going to play that.
Mindlog
(08-13-2017, 05:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ominym

Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.

They've made universal changes before when they abandoned 'kick-to-orbit.'
They also force playstyles right now. Solo speed-running means it's very possible that you don't score high enough to complete the Sunrise bounty. Bungie actually punished efficiency in Nightfalls and quite a few PoE events.

The amount of fun challenging content in Destiny is extremely limited. Getting more end-game challenge is a good thing.
The ๖ۜBronx
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(08-13-2017, 05:40 PM)
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Not too surprised about the time limit. They spoke at length about how much they liked the results from the Black Spindle quest and were interested in expanding that concept. I'm not sure if I'll like it but I'll wait to see how it's implemented before criticizing it too heavily.
Nodnol
Member
(08-13-2017, 05:53 PM)

Originally Posted by Juan

Oh you will, for sure. In next year expansion.

Also, if we're still leveling to level 20 after 55 hours (that's what I hear when they say "progressing", but I might be wrong ofc)...

*snip*

There's enough out there to suggest they are in.

With the effort they're making to address the first game's negatives (cinematic campaign, variety of content, a lack of accessibility for the end game content etc), it would be more surprising that they're not in there to be honest.

Despite all we know, Bungie are still holding stuff back. Some pessimists think that's because there isn't anything to show. They wouldn't hint at more though, if that were the case.
Vince DiCola
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(08-13-2017, 05:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ominym

Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.

Regarding Destiny 1, my opinion remains unswayed. It's just as bad there as it is here.

I would love to see the research Bungie did that determined that this is what the playerbase wanted and be proven wrong. Realistically however, I suspect that they didn't do any and made system-level changes because they didn't like how players were legitimately playing their game.

Not every design choice needs to respect what players want
Vince DiCola
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(08-13-2017, 05:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by kiaaa

I kinda hated D1 NF rewards even though I usually got pretty lucky. Having the chance to just drop strange coins or 3oC was pretty bullshit and some of those exotics were NF drop only.

Only the Icebreaker was a Nightfall bounty reward and that was the Year 3 version.
Mejilan
Running off of Custom Firmware
(08-13-2017, 06:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by ZeoVGM

Yes. They've created a normal version of the Nightfall, which kind of defeats the purpose of the Nightfall. No one is going to play that.

The normal level Nightfalls are likely going to be part of the natural progression that gets our Guardians up to light levels appropriate for the Heroic Nightfalls, which in turn will lead to the normal level Raid.
recklesscognition
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(08-13-2017, 06:33 PM)
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Perhaps the Nightfall time limit rises from Bungie's hopes to force planning out your subclass abilities and loadouts before activities a little more. I'm stoked about the amount of content because I never had a problem putting in hundreds of hours before.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
(08-13-2017, 06:33 PM)



https://twitter.com/Grief_exe/status/896766279503159296

This real?
TharpDaddy
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(08-13-2017, 06:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kenzodielocke




This real?

If it is, i'm really surprised, especially after the big deal they made about it being on the Blizzard launcher. Wonder if pre-orders for PC weren't as high as they wanted? Can't imagine they'd jump at the chance to give up a chunk of sales to Valve, especially with how well Destiny sells without it.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
(08-13-2017, 06:37 PM)

Originally Posted by TharpDaddy

If it is, i'm really surprised, especially after the big deal they made about it being on the Blizzard launcher. Wonder if pre-orders for PC weren't as high as they wanted? Can't imagine they'd jump at the chance to give up a chunk of sales to Valve, especially with how well Destiny sells without it.

Yes, I am just confused by this, because this is a Destiny 1 item.

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