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Cisce
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:22 AM)
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Jade Cocoon is pretty great.
DongBeetle
Banned
(08-13-2017, 10:24 AM)
A lot of the appeal of monster catching has to do with portability
CO_Andy
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:24 AM)
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Celine
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:27 AM)
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In general there are very little clones of Nintendo game franchises.
That's because after the explosion in popularity has passed what remains are the genre king and very little else and Nintendo is very good at cornering the market.

Why are there so little Zelda clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Mario Kart clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Smash Bros clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Super Mario 3D clones on consoles?

and so on.
Duchess O'Death
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Celine

In general there are very little clones of Nintendo game franchises.
That's because after the explosion in popularity has passed what remains are the genre king and Nintendo is very good at cornering the market.

Why are there so little Zelda clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Mario Kart clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Smash Bros clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Super Mario 3D clones on consoles?

and so on.


Because those genres don't sell. Nintendo has the brand popularity that keeps their games selling.

For example, Rayman Legends is a better platformer than New Super Mario Bros. How are the sales though?
LotusHD
Banned
(08-13-2017, 10:34 AM)

Originally Posted by Celine

In general there are very little clones of Nintendo game franchises.
That's because after the explosion in popularity has passed what remains are the genre king and very little else and Nintendo is very good at cornering the market.

Why are there so little Zelda clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Mario Kart clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Smash Bros clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Super Mario 3D clones on consoles?

and so on.

Yea, Pokemon is one of those brands where people are just intensely loyal to it for various reasons. It's been around forever, people generally love their designs, etc. etc. The games aren't perfect, but at the same time I never got the impression that a lot of people are desperate to play a "clone" that does certain aspects better. For those that aren't feeling Pokemon anymore, they'd rather wait for the Pokemon games themselves to improve further, rather than settle for a "clone", otherwise they just won't bother with the genre at all. Doesn't apply to everyone of course, but it's typically how I always perceived it.
Hot Coldman
Banned
(08-13-2017, 10:42 AM)
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because if you come at the king you best not miss
NEO0MJ
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Duchess O'Death

Because those genres don't sell. Nintendo has the brand popularity that keeps their games selling.

For example, Rayman Legends is a better platformer than New Super Mario Bros. How are the sales though?

At least use the superior Origins for this example and even then, I'd say that New Super Luigi U was a better game.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
(08-13-2017, 10:50 AM)
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You know, I'd be happy with just a Pokemon game on consoles. I wanna catch em all.....in one game.....on my TV.
Snuggle Bubbler
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Celine

In general there are very little clones of Nintendo game franchises.
That's because after the explosion in popularity has passed what remains are the genre king and very little else and Nintendo is very good at cornering the market.

Why are there so little Zelda clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Mario Kart clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Smash Bros clones on consoles?
Why are there so little Super Mario 3D clones on consoles?

and so on.

I think those are bad examples, there are plenty of games heavily "inspired" by all of those.
Just off the top of my head Ittle Dew, 3D Dot Game Heroes, Darksiders, Sonic & Sega Racing, Dreamworks Kartz (and the million other licensed Kart games out there), TMNT Smash-Up, Rivals of Aether, Lucky's Tale, etc etc.

Now whether or not any of those games are as good as their Nintendo counterparts is debatable, but to say that few try to clone them isn't very true.

I think what makes it seem like there aren't many is that for the most part AAA devs have given up on Nintendo clones, these days it's mostly indie devs doing this, which doesn't always make it on everyone's radar.
Sesuadra
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:53 AM)

Originally Posted by SilverArrow20XX

You know, I'd be happy with just a Pokemon game on consoles. I wanna catch em all.....in one game.....on my TV.

I've got some great news for you!
Celine
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Snuggle Bubbler

I think those are bad examples, there are plenty of games heavily "inspired" by all of those.
Just off the top of my head Ittle Dew, 3D Dot Game Heroes, Darksiders, Sonic & Sega Racing, Dreamworks Kartz (and the million other licensed Kart games out there), TMNT Smash-Up, Rivals of Aether, Lucky's Tale, etc etc.

Now whether or not any of those games are as good as their Nintendo counterparts is debatable, but to say that few try to clone them isn't very true.

I think what makes it seem like there aren't many is that for the most part AAA devs have given up on Nintendo clones, these days it's mostly indie devs doing this, which doesn't always make it on everyone's radar.

I never said that those franchises never got clones, what I said is the after the popularity phase has passed there are very little clones (or game inspired by if you wish) released in the market which can be considered exceptions.
For example after the introduction of Super Mario 64 there was a big number of clones released in the market during the N64/PS1 and GC/PS2 generations.
After this explosion of popularity has passed though the number of 3D platformers on consoles started to dip.
As you said the reason is that the budget to produce these kind of games keep increasing while at the same time the sales in the genre keep decreasing with only the genre king and very few others to capture a big slice of the overall sales in the genre.

To give an example Super Mario Galaxy dethroned Super Mario 64 as the best selling 3D platform game ever.
This might give the wrong impression that during the Wii/360/PS3 there were still lots of 3D platform games released and that the genre was still healthy.
In reality the genre was already past the peak and was in a consolidating phase where only the strongest survived.
Pandaman
Everything is moe to me
(08-13-2017, 11:05 AM)
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Noisepurge
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:06 AM)
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Because Pokemon works due to the established design of the creatures. Can't copy that.

That's why we don't have reasonable Pokemon Go clones either.
ChackanKun
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:12 AM)
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Amazing underrated game.

Edit: Beaten lol
Candescence
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:19 AM)
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There are multiple things that makes Pokemon such a massive hit, but it comes down to a couple of things:

  • The iconic, recognizable and appealing monster designs. Last I checked, only Digimon, SMT and Yo-Kai Watch EVER got this one right. The family-friendly aspect helps, but not necessary, though I do think the Pokemon Company overly cautious and restrictive about how the Pokemon property is used, even by Nintendo themselves.
  • The portable aspect, with collecting and trading. This is where other challengers immediately stumble. The social and collection aspects of Pokemon is one of its biggest draws, and one of the reasons why Pokemon GO was such a hit despite being a massively stripped-down mobile version of Pokemon.

Good gameplay helps a lot, but if you don't have hooks like both of those, your attempt is doomed from the outset.

I personally want to make a monster raising game that's also mixed with Monster Hunter (wouldn't that be fucking cool), but trying to directly compete with Pokemon itself is a fool's errand unless you've really got something excellent up your sleeve.
TheKeyPit
Banned
(08-13-2017, 11:26 AM)

Originally Posted by MaximumSpider

Have you played it at all recently? I used to think so too until I actually finished the game a few years ago. A perfect example of a game that could have been great if they took the time to fix some glaring issues.

You know what? I think I had more fun with Cyber Sleuth than I did with SM last year.

I don't want to ruin my childhood memories.

-----

I hope that the next Digimon game will release on Xbox :/
Candescence
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheKeyPit

I hope that the next Digimon game will release on Xbox :/

Unlikely at best. It's a miracle we got English localizations of Cyber Sleuth and Next Order at all - until recently, Digimon was considered too niche for international markets by Bamco after the release of Digimon Story: Dawn/Dusk on the DS. Bamco has no incentive to make ports of primarily Japan-focused games to an entire series of consoles that are dead and cremated in Japan.

The only Digimon Xbox game that was last released in recent memory was... That shovelware brawler, All-Star Rumble, commissioned by Saban to promote their mess of a Xros Wars dub. It didn't even get a Japanese release, that's how transparent it was as a marketing vehicle for English audiences.

Honestly, I think Bamco could easily refresh the series to regain international appeal again much like they did with Tamagotchi years back, but it's Bamco, so...
Retro Edge
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by MaximumSpider


You know what? I think I had more fun with Cyber Sleuth than I did with SM last year.

Yeah,I understand that, CS is great. :)
PantsuJo
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Trace

He said pokemon clones. It doesn't count as a clone if it's significantly better than the original, then it's an evolution.

I respect you.

Deeply.

Be my friend.
xenorevlis
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheKeyPit

I don't want to ruin my childhood memories.

-----

I hope that the next Digimon game will release on Xbox :/

Sounds like you need a PS4 to play some of these, but you're hoping games that MS doesn't care about (namely Japanese developed) come to your system of choice.
Fbh
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:17 PM)
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Well for People that are more into single player games there already is a better version of Pokemon on the 3DS





Aside from that I think I would be hard to compete with Pokemon.
Those games are popular not only because they are fun but because Pokemon itself has several generations of people that have grown up with them

Just making 150 new creatures and expecting people to care about them as much as about pokemon would be silly
Lord Azrael
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:18 PM)
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I think it's a similar reason as to why there aren't any successful Smash clones. Part of the appeal is the actual characters.
Malakai
Hello, please read this post and this post before bothering to respond to me.
(08-13-2017, 06:26 PM)

Originally Posted by SilverArrow20XX

You know, I'd be happy with just a Pokemon game on consoles. I wanna catch em all.....in one game.....on my TV.

Red, Blue, & Yellow are playable on the SNES's SuperGameboy, Pokemon Stadium, Pokemon Stadium 2, and the Gamecube's Gameboy Player.

Gold, Silver & Crystal are playable on SNES's SuperGameboy, Pokemon Stadium 2 and the Gamecube's Gameboy Player.

FireRed, LeafGreen, Sapphire, Ruby and Emerald are playable on the Gamecube's Gameboy Player.

The first three gens were playable on TV....Maybe Nintendo's market research suggested otherwise about the number of people that wanted to play Pokemon on TV. Don't know.
Aters
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:30 PM)
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Because it won't work. Would Pokemon blow up if kids couldn't trade their pokemons on the school playground? Pokemon is the first, and to this day one of the few franchises, that is designed specifically for handheld rather than a downgraded console game.
LotusHD
Banned
(08-13-2017, 07:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Lord Azrael

I think it's a similar reason as to why there aren't any successful Smash clones. Part of the appeal is the actual characters.

Yup.
Quonny
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Monster Rancher needs to come back but this time it reads your trophy/achievement list.
BumblebeeCody
(08-13-2017, 07:28 PM)
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I'm going through Digimin: Cyber Sleuth which is basically Pokemon.
watershed
Banned
(08-13-2017, 07:33 PM)
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I'd love to see a big AAA pokemon clone on consoles but would it be worth it for any developer to pursue?
Fireblend
Banned
(08-13-2017, 07:35 PM)
Cyber Sleuth is a great game. I wholeheartedly recommend it to both Pokémon and Persona fans.
NSESN
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:39 PM)
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The problem is that almost all clones are low effort.

Originally Posted by Trace

He said pokemon clones. It doesn't count as a clone if it's significantly better than the original, then it's an evolution.

Good bait. I will never understand why Cyber Sleuth fans keep comparing it to Pokemon when only they care.
Hydrus
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:42 PM)
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Ni No Kuni seems like the closest you'll get and now it seems like they are abandoning the monsters collecting aspect for the sequel
Malyse
stop advertising threads
(08-13-2017, 07:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by RRockman

OP I think you missed out

Came here to say this. Quite literally my all time favorite game.

Originally Posted by Retro Edge

Uhm, there are, open your eyes.

Cyber Sleuth is more Persona lite than Pokemon.
Lulubop
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:46 PM)
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Both Jade Cocoon games were pretty fucking good. Come on Sony, bring it back.
Kayo Police
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by CEJames



Pokemon with Tales of Series skin.

"Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality."
True Fire
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Pokemon IS the clone.

It was predated by Dragon Quest and Megami Tensei. And Digimon has its roots in Tamagotchi, which also predated Pokemon. Cyber Sleuth is a Persona clone, which is a part of Megami Tensei.
Biske
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by MegaManTrigger

SMT/Persona is pretty close to that.

Even ignoring the whole "it came first" thing.

Your demons in SMT and Persona are always pretty throw away and destined for the chopping block a level or two later when you can fuse them into something better.

They are just vehicles for spells really.
McMoneyman
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:48 PM)
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World of Final Fantasy released last year, which felt kinda like Square's attempt at Pokemon.
Jaded Alyx
(08-13-2017, 07:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by True Fire

Y'all are out of touch. Pokemon IS the clone.

It was predated by Dragon Quest and Megami Tensei. And Digimon has its roots in Tamagotchi, which also predated Pokemon. Cyber Sleuth is a Persona clone, which is a part of Megami Tensei.

None of this matters really. Same way people referred to "DOOM clones" for years when DOOM was in no way the first FPS.
SpotAnime
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:51 PM)
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Monster Kingdom Jewel Summoner for the PSP?

NSESN
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by True Fire

Pokemon IS the clone.

It was predated by Dragon Quest and Megami Tensei. And Digimon has its roots in Tamagotchi, which also predated Pokemon. Cyber Sleuth is a Persona clone, which is a part of Megami Tensei.

Pokemon actually came before Tamagotchi. And while Pokemon is influenced by bith MegaTen and DQ it also has a lot of diffent things.
YoRHa No.2 Type B
Banned
(08-13-2017, 08:47 PM)

Originally Posted by Darkstorne

Absolutely this. It's such a shame this game is STILL flying under the radar to this day. It was basically Pokémon for a more mature audience.

Came to post this. Loved this game. Way too short tho.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
(08-13-2017, 08:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Iva Demilcol

How can a clone be older than the original?

The answer is that Pokémon is the clone here

If you really want to be technical, everything monster catching related is a clone of Dragon Quest V.
Galang
Banned
(08-13-2017, 08:51 PM)
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I'm surprised myself. I feel most attempts try too closely to emulate pokemon without the clever designs and then the rest deviate too far from what makes pokemon special. Pokemon really nailed the monster taming formula, but there's a lot of room for improvement and hopefully someone figures it out eventually
brinstar
Member
(08-13-2017, 09:01 PM)
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Back in the day, a console game would never be as social as Pokemon could be. Nowadays with everyone connected online I think there's more potential
SatoAilDarko
Member
(08-13-2017, 09:02 PM)
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Was the Invizimals PS3 game like the portable ones?



Also all three PSP games are playable on PSTV. Though I'm not sure how much you can play without the camera.

Also there were 6 invizimal games and a Trading Card Game with app was released two months ago? What?

Originally Posted by CEJames



Pokemon with Tales of Series skin.

I appreciated it allowing me to never have to play with any of the first game's party members. Give me generic monster wolf over any of them.
Contralto
Member
(08-13-2017, 09:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by MegaManTrigger

If you really want to be technical, everything monster catching related is a clone of Dragon Quest V.

Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei released 5 years before DQV.
NeonBlack
Member
(08-13-2017, 09:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheKeyPit

I love Digimon but it's not really the same + they don't release on Xbox One.

If you're waiting for niche Japanese games on Xbox One then I've got some bad news for you.
Lee Chaolan
Member
(08-13-2017, 09:15 PM)
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Yeah, I'd love Pocket Mortys on console for sure.
AppleSeason
Member
(08-13-2017, 09:21 PM)
Maybe when it comes to games about collecting, people would rather play Gatcha games.


The only thing I have seen come close to Pokémon recently is Yokai Watch. There is a monster collecting element on it, and the anime has helped making it popular.

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