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jimmypop
Banned
(08-06-2017, 11:00 AM)
Untreated mental illness is difficult to watch, even at a distance.
Orb
Member
(08-06-2017, 11:05 AM)
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This looks fuckin rad, i wish my computer didnt suck :/

Edit: I guess nevermind? Sounds like the dev is a real piece of work lmao

Originally Posted by Mister_Bubbles

Wow, this guy sure is something.

Yikes
Bebpo
Banned
(08-06-2017, 11:07 AM)
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Reading those update notes I refuse to believe this guy hasn't just been playing one long troll joke on the internet for years. There's no one anyone can unironically talk like that, it's just not possible.
120v
Member
(08-06-2017, 11:10 AM)
I was glossing over this on steam wondering why this was $40 or however much it's going for then I thought "oh, it's probably that one guy's game" but didn't care to look into it

So.. yuuup. no surprise
Wok
Member
(08-06-2017, 11:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bebpo

Reading those update notes I refuse to believe this guy hasn't just been playing one long troll joke on the internet for years. There's no one anyone can unironically talk like that, it's just not possible.

A 20-year-long marketing plan.
Labadal
Member
(08-06-2017, 11:38 AM)
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I watched some streams. If I was interested in blobbers, I'd probably buy it. The attention to detail is crazy. I might end up getting it on a sale.
Zackat
Member
(08-06-2017, 11:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Labadal

I watched some streams. If I was interested in blobbers, I'd probably buy it. The attention to detail is crazy. I might end up getting it on a sale.

It will never go on sale
Ucchedavāda
Member
(08-06-2017, 12:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zackat

It will never go on sale

Cleve has promised that, but Cleve does not have a good track-record keeping his Grimoire related promises. And he has already gone from "Grimoire will never, ever sell at a discount at any time it is on the Steam store ever again" to "it is likely Grimoire will not change in price again for many years" in the span of a couple of weeks.
TrebuchetGames
Member
(08-06-2017, 12:14 PM)
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Saw this last night. As someone who is/has been making my own dungeon crawler was very interested in it, then the price, and all the hate/comments/author issues has delayed my purchase (I like to check out products that are retro).

Just hope it doesn't take me 20 years to complete my own game, its already 3 years in :(
Mr.Deadshot
Member
(08-06-2017, 12:16 PM)
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Game looks great but what about those 600 hours for one play-through?? This is way, way too long for any game to last. How long is the main story?
Labadal
Member
(08-06-2017, 12:21 PM)
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How petty can people be?

The games this guy releases have less than stellar reviews. This is low, in my opinion. It's one thing not liking another dev, wishing them ill is another.
Wok
Member
(08-06-2017, 12:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Labadal

This is low, in my opinion.

Definitely low. I don't believe Cleve's very relative success (a thousand sales) should spark off any jealousy among other indie devs:
  • Grimoire is a niche game for people who have been thirsty for this genre for years. Of course, it will sell well to that niche.
  • Cleve has wasted more or less one third to one fourth of his lifetime to create this game. Talk about dedication. Nobody can be jealous/willing of trading a few thousand bucks for 20 years of life.
  • Cleve is insanely crazy, from the look of it. Based on his writings, he has been dealing with mood disorders for years, must be high on medication, and I would not be suprised if Grimoire was his only success in life so far.
Aselith
Member
(08-06-2017, 12:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Labadal

How petty can people be?

The games this guy releases have less than stellar reviews. This is low, in my opinion. It's one thing not liking another dev, wishing them ill is another.

Well, he's a virulent racist and stuff so wishing him ill is understandable.
Labadal
Member
(08-06-2017, 12:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aselith

Well, he's a virulent racist and stuff so wishing him ill is understandable.

Makes them no better than him. Also, that guy. The games he has released seem less than stellar.
Ucchedavāda
Member
(08-06-2017, 01:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Labadal

Makes them no better than him. Also, that guy. The games he has released seem less than stellar.

You would put being petty on the same level being a conspiracy peddling virulent racist and bigot? That is quite the stretch.

Nevermind that This is same Cleve that previously pledged $1 to a Kickstarter campaign, so that he could use the comment section to attack and mock the developers, gloat when they failed, and advertise for Grimoire while he was at it.
Labadal
Member
(08-06-2017, 01:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ucchedavāda

You would put being petty on the same level being a conspiracy peddling virulent racist and bigot? That is quite the stretch.

Nevermind that you are defending the same Cleve that previously pledged $1 to a Kickstarter campaign, so that he could use the comment section to attack and mock the developers, gloat when they failed, and advertise for Grimoire while he was at it.

I'm not defending him. He's a lunatic.

I was informed that this IndieDerekD guy releases scamware and they have sold well. His latest game didn't do so well because he set a high price. Greed and all that.

If a game is good, I don't wish for that game to sell like shit. I also won't react if someone that has actually released something good and is not a scammer comes out and speaks against Cleve.
Ucchedavāda
Member
(08-06-2017, 02:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Labadal

I'm not defending him. He's a lunatic.

I was informed that this IndieDerekD guy releases scamware and they have sold well. His latest game didn't do so well because he set a high price. Greed and all that.

If a game is good, I don't wish for that game to sell like shit. I also won't react if someone that has actually released something good and is not a scammer comes out and speaks against Cleve.

If you're going to accuse somebody of being a scammer that has released "scamware", something you failed to mention in your initial post, then please back it up with more than hearsay. Please show the receipt.

And his latest games are sold for $5 and $2, so I am not sure where the accusation of greed comes from.
Sad Affleck
Member
(08-06-2017, 02:15 PM)
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Cleve is a strange and very possibly troubled man but his game is in (relatively) high demand for a reason. The interface is bad and the sound is often annoying but Grimoire's gameplay is straight out of Wizardry. However you may feel about the person himself the fact that he created such a complex and huge RPG by himself is a great achievement.
Labadal
Member
(08-06-2017, 04:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ucchedavāda

If you're going to accuse somebody of being a scammer that has released "scamware", something you failed to mention in your initial post, then please back it up with more than hearsay. Please show the receipt.

And his latest games are sold for $5 and $2, so I am not sure where the accusation of greed comes from.

Check out Steam reviews and see for yourself. If that's not your thing, look up YouTube videos and have a laugh or two.

But this thread isn't about those games. This thread is about Grimoire. A game that seesm to be good. Lunatic developer or not.
Fractology
Member
(08-06-2017, 05:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by jimmypop

Untreated mental illness is difficult to watch, even at a distance.

This. I'm no medical expert, but I think it's safe to say that mental illness is most definitely at play here. He does post some vile shit too. I'm at equal ends infuriated with him and wishing he could get help.

It wasn't hard to find posts like this in his blog from 2008 (http://vault-co.blogspot.com/2008/11...009.html?m=0):
[[Edit: removed the quote from my post as I didn't want the overt racism overly visible on NeoGaf. Feel free to explore his blog at your own discretion though if you want to see what I'm referencing.]]

I am curious about this game but I'm not about to rush out and buy it after seeing crap like this...
Sad Affleck
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fractology

I am curious about this game but I'm not about to rush out and buy it after seeing crap like this...

The sad truth is that a lot of creators, be it game, music or film, are horrible people. That is just a fact of life. If their personal life doesn't influence their art I try to ignore it and focus on the creation itself. I tend to think of it as a way for their non-horrible side to reveal and express itself.
_Aaron_
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dusk Golem


One of the most infamous

Is it really "one of the most infamous"? I'd never even heard of it until it released...
autoduelist
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:19 PM)
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The game looks great, and is right up my alley. It's a shame he never plans to have sales, because the price point is a bit high for me. But I understand not wanting to join the race to the bottom pricing has taken in the past decade, where everyone waits for a bundle, 90% off during steam sale, ps+, mobile 99cent sale, etc.

Originally Posted by Bebpo

Reading those update notes I refuse to believe this guy hasn't just been playing one long troll joke on the internet for years. There's no one anyone can unironically talk like that, it's just not possible.

He's either joking or has serious issues. It's most likely issues, at which point I find it hard to judge him. Anyone putting 20 years into something - especially coding a niche game like this - is likely going to have some social issues. Chicken and egg - both to spend 20 years without releasing, and due to spending 20 years on coding such a niche game.

EDIT - read one of the linked rants. My money is definitely on mental illness. He needs help too, not hate, imo.
Arulan
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:21 PM)
It is pretty sad that the only reason this thread is at 4 pages is because people want to discuss the developer's beliefs rather than the game itself.
The Illiterati
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by _Aaron_

Is it really "one of the most infamous"? I'd never even heard of it until it released...

I've been on the internet since the mid 90s. Cleve was posting his racist screeds and talking about Grimoire coming out "soon" since the mid 90s on Usenet. He was a racist joke then and remains one today. So yes, infamous is correct.
Absoludacrous
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Arulan

It is pretty sad that the only reason this thread is at 4 pages is because people want to discuss the developer's beliefs rather than the game itself.

His beliefs and the nature of the games developments are the man bites dog of this story. If that weren't the case I imagine there'd be more people on this forum trying the game out and this thread would have gone more in the direction of something like Legend of Grimrock.
Wok
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Arulan

It is pretty sad that the only reason this thread is at 4 pages is because people want to discuss the developer's beliefs rather than the game itself.

I had never played a game of this genre before, and it quite entertaining. The world is filled with secrets and riddles, it is quite charming. The graphics, music and sounds are old school, but in comparison to games like Wizardry 7, the graphics are top notch (I could not play Wizardry 7, I would need a HD remake for that).

That being said, there are some bugs: I have encountered several crashes to desktop (due to the same bugged item). The text can be hard to read because of the weird font and background textures. And more importantly, the game has no tutorial or manual, so that it is completely and truly obscure for people who have never played such a game before.

I'm still in the refund time window, and will wait for a manual and bug fixes before making up my mind.
Arulan
Member
(08-06-2017, 06:41 PM)

Originally Posted by Wok

That being said, there are some bugs: I have encountered several crashes to desktop (due to the same bugged item). The text can be hard to read because of the weird font and background textures. And more importantly, the game has no tutorial or manual, so that it is completely and truly obscure for people who have never played such a game before.

That's certainly fair. I haven't encountered any crashes, but there have been a few other issues. And based on reading through the Codex thread, people are encountering bugs.

As for the manual, I believe it's supposed to be released on Monday, but I'm not sure I'd take that bet. I've seen some good posts though when it comes to explaining some of the basics such as attribute descriptions and some starting party tips.
Sad Affleck
Member
(08-06-2017, 07:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by autoduelist

The game looks great, and is right up my alley. It's a shame he never plans to have sales, because the price point is a bit high for me.

I wouldn't put much stock in that "no sales ever" thing. Wishlist it and wait, I'm sure it will go on sale once the early adopter pool is drained.


Originally Posted by Arulan

That's certainly fair. I haven't encountered any crashes, but there have been a few other issues. And based on reading through the Codex thread, people are encountering bugs.

As for the manual, I believe it's supposed to be released on Monday, but I'm not sure I'd take that bet. I've seen some good posts though when it comes to explaining some of the basics such as attribute descriptions and some starting party tips.

Some sort of manual is indeed supposed to come out on Monday. The game does have some bugs but the most annoying issues are those that make some characters way overpowered. For instance, currently the Bard class gains points in music at a ridiculous rate which means that after a few battles your Bard can put even bosses to sleep.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
(08-06-2017, 07:05 PM)
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This situation reminds me a tad of TempleOS.
Robot Pants
Member
(08-06-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Dude is out of his mind expecting 36 dollars for this game.
But then again my keyboard has a few WWE stickers on it so I shouldn't be playing it anyway
DealWithIt
Member
(08-06-2017, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Robot Pants

Dude is out of his mind expecting 36 dollars for this game.
But then again my keyboard has a few WWE stickers on it so I shouldn't be playing it anyway

Amazing.
autoduelist
Member
(08-06-2017, 08:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sad Affleck

I wouldn't put much stock in that "no sales ever" thing. Wishlist it and wait, I'm sure it will go on sale once the early adopter pool is drained.

That's what I'm doing. I'm excited to eventually pick it up.

Maybe I'll put a buck a month in a jar and buy it in 4 years.


Originally Posted by Robot Pants

Dude is out of his mind expecting 36 dollars for this game.
But then again my keyboard has a few WWE stickers on it so I shouldn't be playing it anyway

Eh, the only reason I wouldn't drop 36 on this is because I've got a family to feed and gaming is very low on my budget priority [so I try to avoid dropping 36 on -any- game]. But in and of itself? I don't think 36 is unfair for such a deep game. I don't care about the graphics, I care about gameplay, and it seems this game offers that [in a preferred genre of mine].

Just think about how much some drop on kickstarting games in their preferred genre [or by a preferred 'name' developer]. 36 isn't really that much, all things considered. We're just trained to wait for steam sales and bundles and free, etc.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
(08-06-2017, 08:09 PM)
This is hands down the weirdest thing I've seen and heard on this site.
Ucchedavāda
Member
(08-06-2017, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Labadal

Check out Steam reviews and see for yourself. If that's not your thing, look up YouTube videos and have a laugh or two.

But this thread isn't about those games. This thread is about Grimoire. A game that seesm to be good. Lunatic developer or not.

I read the reviews for all of that developer's games, and I found nothing indicating that they were releasing "scamware", or that they were otherwise a "scammer", as you've claimed. The worst I found is that most of their games do not seem to be very good, which is nowhere near as serious an allegation. Not even the price of their games showed signs of the greed that you accused them of.

So what exactly is your beef with this Derek D? He was only introduced to this thread because you posted a screenshot of one of his posts, and then went ahead and accused him of being being a "scammer" who has released "scamware", as well as greedy, without presenting any evidence to that effect. It honestly sounds like you're just repeating hearsay.
Oracle Dragon
Member
(08-06-2017, 10:36 PM)
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This game seems more than a little inspired by Wizardy 7... which I think this guy actually did some work on Wizardy so maybe that's why?

Devs mental state aside, should I spend 40 bucks CAD on this game, or I'm better off with 10 for Wizardy 7 from Gog? I finally finished all the dlc in Dark Souls 3 and I've got a craving for something old school.
Sinatar
Official GAF Bottom Feeder
(08-06-2017, 10:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oracle Dragon

This game seems more than a little inspired by Wizardy 7... which I think this guy actually did some work on Wizardy so maybe that's why?

Devs mental state aside, should I spend 40 bucks CAD on this game, or I'm better off with 10 for Wizardy 7 from Gog? I finally finished all the dlc in Dark Souls 3 and I've got a craving for something old school.

Wizardry 7 is an all time classic, the jury is still out on this.
Labadal
Member
(08-06-2017, 10:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ucchedavāda

I read the reviews for all of that developer's games, and I found nothing indicating that they were releasing "scamware", or that they were otherwise a "scammer", as you've claimed. The worst I found is that most of their games do not seem to be very good, which is nowhere near as serious an allegation. Not even the price of their games showed signs of the greed that you accused them of.

So what exactly is your beef with this Derek D? He was only introduced to this thread because you posted a screenshot of one of his posts, and then went ahead and accused him of being being a "scammer" who has released "scamware", as well as greedy, without presenting any evidence to that effect. It honestly sounds like you're just repeating hearsay.

Whatever you say, man. His games are mostly broken messes. Even positive reviews excuse the problems the games have.

I introduced him because he's a petty guy that releases shit games and he's wishing ill will on another developer. If Cleve is as crap as you say, then this guy is not any better. Other than that, I have no beef.
Wok
Member
(08-06-2017, 11:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oracle Dragon

Devs mental state aside, should I spend 40 bucks CAD on this game, or I'm better off with 10 for Wizardy 7 from Gog?

I had the same question, and I made my mind after looking at the screenshots.

Sinatar
Official GAF Bottom Feeder
(08-06-2017, 11:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wok

I had the same question, and I made my mind after looking at the screenshots.

That's a screenshot of Wizardry 7 Gold, not Wizardry 7. Gold is ugly and crap.

Wizardry 7 with the original pixel art portraits and UI looks much better.

SatelliteOfLove
Member
(08-07-2017, 02:10 AM)
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Yeah, I think I'll get around to World of Xeen instead or wait for D:OS2. Not a fan of devil's advocacy reasoning for choosing this over X due to notoriety.

Originally Posted by Absoludacrous

His beliefs and the nature of the games developments are the man bites dog of this story. If that weren't the case I imagine there'd be more people on this forum trying the game out and this thread would have gone more in the direction of something like Legend of Grimrock.

A dozen pages max, get overlooked for on-demand accessibility features, and not snag oh-so-deserved GOTY nods? :D
mbpm1
Member
(08-07-2017, 02:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mister_Bubbles

Wow, this guy sure is something.

This must be bait right?
Timedog
good credit (by proxy)
(08-07-2017, 02:59 AM)
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This guy is the neckbeardiest parents basement creep I've ever heard of on the entire internet. It's making me gag reading his internet posts.
LelouchZero
Member
(08-07-2017, 03:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Arulan

It is pretty sad that the only reason this thread is at 4 pages is because people want to discuss the developer's beliefs rather than the game itself.

I'd sure love to talk about and play a game made by a racist!
Sad Affleck
Member
(08-07-2017, 09:59 AM)
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At the moment there is no auto-update feature for this so to get a new version you need to uninstall and reinstall the game. Manually back up your save files and character library to be on the safe side.

The current version is 1.2.0.7. Inventory accelerator buttons have been added to help with inventory management.
Wok
Member
(08-07-2017, 10:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sad Affleck

At the moment there is no auto-update feature for this so to get a new version you need to uninstall and reinstall the game.

Weird.
Lanrutcon
Member
(08-07-2017, 10:52 AM)
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Reinstalled Wiz 8 while this gets patched. 2022 will be a grand year.
Elaugaufein
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(08-07-2017, 11:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sad Affleck

At the moment there is no auto-update feature for this so to get a new version you need to uninstall and reinstall the game. Manually back up your save files and character library to be on the safe side.

The current version is 1.2.0.7. Inventory accelerator buttons have been added to help with inventory management.

Wut ? Stean had a built in dumb as bricks auto Updater that will redownload the entire game on a mismatch between local and server. I've got 2 small games that redownload ~200MB every few weeks this way and Ubisoft used to be fond of redownloading Gigabytes of games this way as was Warmachine Tactics.

How can you not have any auto-uodate at all ?
Sad Affleck
Member
(08-07-2017, 11:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Elaugaufein

How can you not have any auto-update at all ?

Well, apparently he didn't enable it in the settings, LOL. Someone on the Steam forums told him to untick the "no automatic updates" setting so auto-updating should be sorted out very soon. Cleve might actually be a 'living fossil' as he claims in his video, he makes the weirdest mistakes when interacting with modern technology.
Wok
Member
(08-07-2017, 12:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sad Affleck

Cleve might actually be a 'living fossil' as he claims in his video, he makes the weirdest mistakes when interacting with modern technology.

Also, the fact that he has plenty of "assert" in his code (which results in crashes to desktop), rather than catching exceptions and having the usual error handling through innocuous messages.



I think he is an autodidact and must have learnt everything by himself. Or I don't know, maybe I am wrong there...

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