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Namegoes_Here
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 03:37 AM)
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I wouldn't call it a monopoly so much as a last holdouts of a dying market. Dedicated handhelds just don't sell like they used to. I commend Nintendo for going all in on what sets switch apart by trying to keep their strongest market from going under, but I wonder how far they can ride it. Sure the switch is doing well 6 months in, it's the year 2 and year 3 sales that will judge if it's a real success.
NSESN
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aurongel

The only thing they have a monopoly on in 2017 is boneheaded PR moves. This is the furthest they've been from market dominance in recent memory. Apple ate their lunch on mobile.

Mobile and Handhelds aren't the same market. Of course it is true that the mobile market affected the handheld one, but as example some handheld series sold on the 3DS almost the same they did on DS like Pokemon and Animal Crossing.
DeuceGamer
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:40 AM)
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Monopoly is like the NES where they had over 90% of the industry, so the answer is no. They are in a good position though.
Yarbskoo
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by SMD

Master System and NES were really close and competitive in Europe. Nintendo never dominated the home console market until the Wii, really.

So basically, the Master System was really close and competitive with about 16% of the total worldwide sales of the NES and Famicom.
Last edited by Yarbskoo; 08-13-2017 at 03:46 AM.
emag
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:43 AM)
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The Digital Antiquarian had a great series of articles on Tetris and, indirectly, the battle between Atari and Nintendo regarding the latter's monopoly. Here's a taste:

Atari found a friendly ear for their tale of woe in United States Congressman Dennis Eckart. The Democrat from Ohio was the chairman of a subcommittee focused on antitrust enforcement, and he was already inquiring into Nintendo’s business practices when he was contacted by Van Elderen. Van Elderen and other Atari executives became star witnesses in building the case for an official government investigation into Nintendo, while Eckart never even contacted anyone from the opposing camp to ask for their side of the story. On December 7, 1989, the 48th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor — the timing struck very few as coincidental — Eckart held a press conference to announce his recommendation that the Justice Department launch a probe of Nintendo’s role in the videogame market. As Howard Lincoln would later note, the press conference couldn’t have favored Atari’s position more had the latter written the script — which, in light of the cozy relationship that had sprung up between Eckart and Atari, there was grounds to suspect they had. The Justice Department soon handed the case to the Federal Trade Commission.

...

Whatever the situation in court, the two Ataris could feel fairly confident that they were at the very least holding their own in the public-relations war. In January of 1992, Michael Crichton summed up the mood of many inside and outside the American government with his novel Rising Sun. A thinly disguised polemic against Japan — Crichton himself described the book as a “wake-up call” to his country about the Japanese threat — it centers on a fictional corporation called Nakamoto whose mysterious leader sits far away in Japan at the center of a web of collusion and corruption. It was hard not to see the parallels with Nintendo’s greatly-feared-but-seldom-seen president Hiroshi Yamauchi. Price-fixing and other forms of collusion are “normal procedure in Japan,” says one of Crichton’s characters. “Collusive agreements are the way things are done.”

Just months after the publication of the novel, Yamauchi confirmed all of its worst insinuations in the eyes of some when he bought the Seattle Mariners baseball team. The Japanese, it seemed, were taking over even the Great American Pastime. What was next, Mom and apple pie? Major League Baseball approved the sale only on the condition that the day-to-day management of the team remain in American hands.

Originally Posted by SMD

Master System and NES were really close and competitive in Europe. Nintendo never dominated the home console market until the Wii, really.

Europe was a tiny market at the time. Worldwide NES sales were ~10x worldwide Master System sales, not accounting for Brazil (which has a really weird Master System dominated game market to this very day).
Colossal Moo
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 03:43 AM)
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Nintendo obviously does not have a monopoly on gaming. If they screw up with the Switch, people will just play games on their Xbox One, PS4, PC, cell phone, iPad, etc. BTW, so far Nintendo has been doing a good job and the Switch seems like a good portable/home console.
Yoshimitsu126
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(08-13-2017, 03:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Namegoes_Here

I wouldn't call it a monopoly so much as a last holdouts of a dying market. Dedicated handhelds just don't sell like they used to. I commend Nintendo for going all in on what sets switch apart by trying to keep their strongest market from going under, but I wonder how far they can ride it. Sure the switch is doing well 6 months in, it's the year 2 and year 3 sales that will judge if it's a real success.

Considering how Mario Kart is selling nearly identical to its former port and Splatoon is selling amazing in Japan and worldwide, and Zelda keeps getting over 80% attach rate in US I think Switch is set. And Mario Odyssey has two trailers with 10+ million views with an average of 17 million. Nintendo's market brand has been hit with resurgence and those titles will keep selling systems.

Plus we still got Smash Bros which will sell just as well or better than the Wii U verison and the main line Pokemon RPG and Dragon Quest XI coming up in 2018-2019. We also have a new Fire Emblem which has sold and earned million in Smart Phones, new Animal Crossing, and possibly a new Mario and Zelda maker. There's even a new Metroid Prime game!

Switch is set for 50+ million already sales man.
Last edited by Yoshimitsu126; 08-13-2017 at 03:49 AM.
Macka
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:49 AM)
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Vita really must mean life. Feels like every few days there's a post implying it's still alive.
SirNinja
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(08-13-2017, 03:58 AM)
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Nintendo's always been the king in the dedicated handheld gaming space. Only the PSP ever came remotely close, but once the DS got its big games (Pokemon especially), there was just no contest.
Last edited by SirNinja; 08-13-2017 at 03:59 AM. Reason: Thankfully Sony learned from their mistakes when they made the Vita!...is a thing I wish I could say
calc84maniac
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Macka

Vita really must mean life. Feels like every few days there's a post implying it's still alive.

I'm picking up four or five new games releasing physically for the Vita in September, so it's still alive and kicking as far as I'm concerned.

If the Japanese handheld game development moves wholesale over to the Switch in the coming years though, of course I'll be buying more stuff on it instead.
Sub Boss
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:05 AM)
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No there is too much successful competition.

"They are back" in the way that Nintendo isn't irrelevant in the console business anymore
Kthulhu
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(08-13-2017, 04:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by freeze_

When it comes to handheld consoles - if you're not counting phones - I don't think they ever lost it.

The PSP came the closest and it still only sold 80 million units vs the DS's 150 million.
Sub Boss
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kthulhu

The PSP came the closest and it still only sold 80 million units vs the DS's 150 million.

Damn the 3DS wishes it was the PSP
dragonyeuw
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kthulhu

The PSP came the closest and it still only sold 80 million units vs the DS's 150 million.

80 million units is enough to beat just about every other Nintendo handheld, right? As you point out it just happened to coincide with one of the gretest selling consoles, home or handheld, in history.
CrazyIvan1978
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:14 AM)
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Switch owners..., ffs what is wrong with you
emag
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sub Boss

Damn the 3DS wishes it was the PSP

I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch doesn't hit those numbers when all is said and done. The post-smartphone/tablet handheld market is much smaller than what existed before.

Originally Posted by dragonyeuw

80 million units is enough to beat just about every other Nintendo handheld, right? As you point out it just happened to coincide with one of the gretest selling consoles, home or handheld, in history.

Only enough to beat the Virtual Boy (if that counts) and 3DS (although by the end of next year it should be close).

GBA was around 80M. GB was 120M. (And as noted earlier, DS was 150M.)
Last edited by emag; 08-13-2017 at 04:19 AM.
mario_O
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(08-13-2017, 04:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kthulhu

The PSP came the closest and it still only sold 80 million units vs the DS's 150 million.

Those numbers are never coming back. Saying mobiles/tablets don't count as direct competition is disingenuous.
Garrett Hawke
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:22 AM)
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No, .

The opposite
Gaiaknight
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:25 AM)
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i loved the PSP and its 80 million sales is nothing to look down upon it just happened that the DS was a fucking monster that Nintendo released and then laughed as there bank account grew. Sadly those numbers with mobile being a thing probably wont ever happen again for just a dedicated handheld machine but man was it a great time for gamers that owned a psp and a DS.
dragonyeuw
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Namegoes_Here

I wouldn't call it a monopoly so much as a last holdouts of a dying market. Dedicated handhelds just don't sell like they used to. I commend Nintendo for going all in on what sets switch apart by trying to keep their strongest market from going under, but I wonder how far they can ride it. Sure the switch is doing well 6 months in, it's the year 2 and year 3 sales that will judge if it's a real success.

The 3ds has sold, what? 60-65 million units or something like that? And the wii U sold 12-14 million.? Now granted, a good portion of those 3ds sales come from people buying multiple iterations( like the upcoming Metroid 3d and 2ds XLR units). But I'm predicting nothing under 50 million units at least for Switch. I honestly feel like the Switch is Nintendo's best hardware in years. The 3ds was always a bit of a hit or miss with people since some didn't care for the 3d, or how it was underpowered when it hit the market. The wii U failed for all kinds of reasons starting with its concept.

Switch, on the other hand, just works. The hybrid idea works, the design is sleak, the UI simple and uncluttered. Yeah, it's not a graphical powerhouse next to the Ps4 or XB1, but I can't imagine anyone looking at something like Mario Odyssey and thinking the system lacks for power. You'll see games with art direction that transcends any power disadvantage compared to the other consoles. I think Nintendo is poised to make serious bank on the Switch.
Last edited by dragonyeuw; 08-13-2017 at 04:33 AM.
dragonyeuw
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by emag



Only enough to beat the Virtual Boy (if that counts) and 3DS (although by the end of next year it should be close).

GBA was around 80M. GB was 120M. (And as noted earlier, DS was 150M.)

OK thanks for that, didn't realize GB sold that much. Still though, for someone to enter that space at that point and put up those numbers was impressive.80 million is nothing to sneeze at...
mhayze
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(08-13-2017, 04:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Azelover

I don't wanna be provocative, or bother anybody. This is simply a technical question.

I know most people game on mobile phones these days. But back in the NES days a lot of people played on computers, yet it was still considered a Nintendo dominated market because PCs weren't technically "consoles".

There's no other big handheld system out now. The Vita is waning, and there's nothing else on the horizon. Is Nintendo temporarily the owner of the handheld market?

This is like asking if your 50 year old spinster aunt who's helping to clean up after a wedding reception is technically the hottest remaining chick at the party.
SalvaPot
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(08-13-2017, 04:34 AM)
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With mobile gaming, I'll hardly call handheld gaming a monopoly.
OrbitalBeard
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(08-13-2017, 04:35 AM)
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Sure.....but even Nintendo realizes being the leader in the dedicated handheld space doesn't mean all that much these days, which is one of the reasons why they created the Switch.
Candescence
Banned
(08-13-2017, 04:41 AM)
It's not so much a 'monopoly' as it is a lack of competition in the same space aside from mobile - the only viable handheld competitor Nintendo has ever had was the PSP, only for the Vita to crash and burn the next generation while the 3DS did a respectable amount.

While truly dedicated handheld gaming has been taken over by mobile (fucking ugh, what a travesty), Nintendo has found a comfortable middle ground between handheld and home console gaming in a single device that is clearly appealing to consumers in a way that Apple and Google simply can't compete with unless they take a serious foray into console gaming. The Switch is gonna do pretty well for Nintendo.
Crazy Diamond
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:43 AM)
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Nah man, those folks can't get a third party game to save their life.
GuessMyUserName
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(08-13-2017, 04:43 AM)
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... A monopoly? What?

I mean I'm a Switch owner without a Bone or PS4 but Nintendo is so incredibly far from a monopoly, there's still many areas in gaming they don't even have a hold of their own yet
backflip10019
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:44 AM)
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Ever heard of a little something called smartphones, OP?
balladofwindfishes
(08-13-2017, 04:44 AM)
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At no point in Nintendo's history have they ever had a monopoly, so I'm not sure how they'd "go back" to one.

Originally Posted by DeuceGamer

Monopoly is like the NES where they had over 90% of the industry, so the answer is no. They are in a good position though.

Other than Europe. The NES never really took off in Europe from what I remember.
SirNinja
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(08-13-2017, 04:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by backflip10019

Ever heard of a little something called smartphones, OP?

"I know most people game on mobile phones these days"

Nah, he's probably never heard of 'em
killatopak
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:53 AM)
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it's effectively competing with mobile and consoles so I don't know how you'd call that a monopoly.

Game prices are similarly priced to console games.
Switch price is similarly priced as a console.
Increased graphic fidelity means it's much more feasible to have switch games have PS4/XBO counterparts.
Paid online.

If you're strictly playing on a Switch then you're getting console games on a portable system. That's amazing. However, if you own other systems then you're basically paying more for less with the only saving grace is playing it on the go. Since the Switch is effectively a console, it's logical that publishers need not exclude their game from the other consoles that would mean fewer exclusives aside from the Nintendo staples.

Nintendo had a monopoly on the handheld market. They just decided that the profits gained from that area alone wasn't enough and tried to merge their dying console business with the handheld in order to reap the benefits both gives. Unknowingly, this means they now have to compete against both because mobile is increasingly encroaching the handheld market and consoles now have a chance of having the handheld games ported on them.
The Exploder
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(08-13-2017, 04:56 AM)
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Nintendo has a monopoly on the handheld market if you view it in isolation of like 99% of the handheld market.
fernoca
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(08-13-2017, 04:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

At no point in Nintendo's history have they ever had a monopoly, so I'm not sure how they'd "go back" to one.



Other than Europe. The NES never really took off in Europe from what I remember.

Pretty much.
Having success, while the competition either struggles, fails or finds a small niche,is not a monopoly.

At no point Nintendo has forced competition out or even acquired competition to keep a grip on the market.
The Wart
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(08-13-2017, 04:58 AM)
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For the vast majority of the market either phones, consoles, or both are viable substitutes for the Switch, so it's hard to call it a monopoly. Like, if I sell a t-shirt with a very specific design you wouldn't say I have a monopoly on that particular t-shirt.
AudioTechnica
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 05:00 AM)
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Yes, by your fanboy definition, nintendo has a monopoly on the handheld market. Hope you can sleep better at night. To be fair though, Tim Cook probably doesn't now what a 'Nintendo' is.
jholmes
Member
(08-13-2017, 05:02 AM)
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You might as well ask if Nintendo has a monopoly on Switch-like hardware.

Surprisingly, they do.
Atheerios
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(08-13-2017, 05:04 AM)
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They have never lost that handheld console dominance.

However, they definitely don't have a monopoly on handheld devices capable of gaming.
PHOENIXZERO
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(08-13-2017, 05:06 AM)
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Nintendo has never really had a monopoly but they've been knocked down at least a times for anti-trust issues including price fixing and general anti-competitive practices in the 80s IIRC, that can probably at least in part be blamed on the Master System not doing well here. Nintendo successfully controlled the market in the U.S. Before they got sued (which resulted in a laughable settlement) and seemingly figured they could do the same in Europe before they were fined there by the European Commission 15 years ago.
Melchiah
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(08-13-2017, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by emag

Europe was a tiny market at the time. Worldwide NES sales were ~10x worldwide Master System sales, not accounting for Brazil (which has a really weird Master System dominated game market to this very day).

For consoles perhaps, since C64 was popular in Europe in the 8-bit days. That's also why the crash of 1983 didn't affect Europe as much as it did America.
Neo_Geo
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(08-13-2017, 05:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by mr teaspoon

EEEUUUUGGH??

My precious eardrums.
nephilimdj
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(08-13-2017, 05:49 AM)
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Issue now is keeping the ball rolling for switch. esp. after delays really hurt the WiiU in that 2-4 year era.
Pointless getting ton of games noone really cares about and nothing exciting to consumers, like vita did.
Metroid Prime 4, yoshi and kirby 2018
Last edited by nephilimdj; 08-13-2017 at 05:51 AM.
jroc74
Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
(08-13-2017, 06:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by freeze_

When it comes to handheld consoles - if you're not counting phones - I don't think they ever lost it.

.
SinCityAssassin
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(08-13-2017, 06:03 AM)
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"No."
LegendofLex
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(08-13-2017, 06:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaspard

Almost twice as many hardware sales and three times the software sales does not a rival make.

If they aren't getting close to 100% of the software $, it's not a monopoly.
ArtHands
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:06 AM)
I'll say the dominance is pernament. Sony has given up the handheld industry

Originally Posted by LegendofLex

If they aren't getting close to 100% of the software $, it's not a monopoly.

We sure they haven't? They have numerous multimillion titles, while Vita hasnt have any million seller save for probably Minecraft.
Last edited by ArtHands; 08-13-2017 at 06:08 AM.
LiveFromKyoto
make it rain, motherfucker
(08-13-2017, 06:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Macka

Vita really must mean life. Feels like every few days there's a post implying it's still alive.

Wait for TGS!
99Luffy
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(08-13-2017, 06:18 AM)
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Nintendo has a pretty big advantage now that they can put 100% of development into one market instead of splitting teams between console and handheld. Not counting their mobile teams of course.

Only way I can ever see them getting dethroned is if Apple or Google ever decide to make a serious effort to push a standard for physical controllers and push for developers to have higher priced games with traditional development cycles.
LiveFromKyoto
make it rain, motherfucker
(08-13-2017, 06:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by AudioTechnica

Yes, by your fanboy definition, nintendo has a monopoly on the handheld market. Hope you can sleep better at night. To be fair though, Tim Cook probably doesn't now what a 'Nintendo' is.

yo sick burn bro

BladeoftheImmortal
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 06:30 AM)
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Handhelds, sure. Consoles no.
perfectchaos007
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(08-13-2017, 06:30 AM)
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iOS/Android has the handheld monopoly, not Nintendo

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