EatinOlives
Member
The same can apply to the friend.
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I think I might lose my best friend today...
- Thread starter Scorpion Soldier
- Start date
The same can apply to the friend.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
But you should listen to cyberheater and try to maintain that relationship. You're just being unreasonable. She didn't mean to insult you!
What a bunch of bullshit that line of thinking is. I am in total agreement with you, the 'friend' insulted an actual handicapp and said it's worse than death.
Skellig Gra
Member
Science isn't infallible and has been wrong many times so I'd say you do have to believe in it.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Anti-vaccination is equally or arguably more "heavy."
It absolutely has, but the point is that there's zero actual evidence of a link. You might as well say vaccines cause lung cancer, or diabetes, or small penises. There's an equal amount of scientific evidence for all of those. Science cannot guarantee us there's no link. Why aren't people citing those when they refuse vaccines?
We cannot say with absolute certainty that vaccines will not cause autism ever. We can say that there is no evidence of them doing so, and there's no reason to think there is other than one bullshit fraudster and a gang of celebrities who propagated his lies to the masses. So to risk your own children's lives due to nothing more than a hypothetical is incompatible with logic.
curiouscharles
Member
ok OP, this is something you'll need to learn eventually, so you might as well learn it now...
you need to get smarter friends, it will make your life more fulfilling in general.
you need to get smarter friends, it will make your life more fulfilling in general.
Muffin1611
Banned
Okay, let me change that.
You fucking accept science that has been proven over and over and where there's really no (sane) reason to believe that it's flawed.
The Shadow
Member
Thank you for saying so succinctly what I couldn't. Mutual respect goes both ways. The friend shows zero respect, none, toward the OP. No one should bend over backwards to maintain friendships. No one should be that desperate to surround themselves with people that they have to reduce their self-worth to zero.
Modern science is sufficiently rigorous enough. Anti vax is not healthy skepticism, it's stupidity. It's not a quirky difference in opinion like pineapple on pizza, it's a dangerous belief. You either try to convince them or choose not to interact with them, not much of a loss. Plenty of people in the world.
Alcotholic
Banned
Fine, change the word "opinion" for "belief".
But calm the fuck down. People will choose how to deal with dynamics in certain relationships. I've don't have any anti-vaxxer friends so I can't say what I would do or how I would react. I dont know how deep their anti-vax beliefs are. It depends on a lot of things.
Sometimes I have to be in certain situations to understand fully, but I've been born and raised in liberal communities. Also I'm not that confrontational.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Science isn't a faith based belief system. It is evidence based. When new evidence is presented you alter the understanding. You don't believe it because you like it or because it makes you feel good.
The vaccine shit is whatever. Maybe she'll get over once she realizes her brother is feeding her poison. It's idiotic, but a friend's a friend, right?
I would bring this up with her. This is shitty. This is what costs friendships. You deserve an apology.
Muffin1611
Banned
It's hard to calm down when this stance endangers peoples lives, completely needlessly to add.
Be assured that I'm not primarily directing this at you.
Isn't this apart of the problem though? It's not as if people see the science with their own eyes most of the time. They get the info passed through other sources which is where the problem comes in. It becomes easy to inject false information into the mix. The "what if?" is so strong that it scares the shit out of a person.
For the record, I'm not saying these people shouldn't be more responsible, but "believing in science" is not the problem here. The problem is getting the science thoroughly from reliable sources.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
I wouldn't call it a relationship when one person in the dynamic believes that having autism is worse than polio, for example, and didn't vaccinate their kids,
To The Other Person In Relationship Who Has Autism.
Did you read the OP?
TetraGenesis
Member
This is absolutely worth losing a best friend over. I'm sorry your friend is so ignorant as to irreparably damage your relationship, OP.
Muffin1611
Banned
It's really not hard to find reliable sources on this. It's just that some people willfully ignore those to confirm what they heard somewhere.
There have been various studies on what people believe most. What friends say or post on Facebook was always very high on that list. It's not surprising that this is the result of that.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
It's embarrassing how low some people are willing to set the bar for friendship. Like is it really that difficult for some to find people of adequate decency?
And I thought I was lax with my two simple requirements:
Don't be a bigot.
Don't be an idiot.
Being anti-vax is clear violation of the second.
And I thought I was lax with my two simple requirements:
Don't be a bigot.
Don't be an idiot.
Being anti-vax is clear violation of the second.
Caddywompus
Member
Putting off a vaccination while in a argument isn't going to have the same impact of dropping this friend and leaving them in their stupidity.
MegaMelon
Member
I think people are really glossing over this bit:
This in and of itself hints at some problems with your friendship with this person. I think you have every right to be angry that they said this to you even after you reminded them that you have autism.
This in and of itself hints at some problems with your friendship with this person. I think you have every right to be angry that they said this to you even after you reminded them that you have autism.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
That's what losers say when they lose.
Glass Rebel
Member
Dying of polio sounds like a better fate than being raised by this dumbshit.
Muffin1611
Banned
Just ignoring it and continuing to be friends with that person won't solve anything.
If he's able to convince her after a little while, fine.
If he isn't, ending the friendship will at least make her consider that her "opinion" may be SO bad that it's worth ending a friendship over.
Westbahnhof
Banned
So where is the line?
I known anti-vaccers who use Mineral Miracle Solution to keep their kids healthy.
Is that good enough?
How much damage caused is enough to make friendship impossible?
It really pisses me off when people write off something that harms and kills and has no benefits as "different opinions" that should be ignored.
TetraGenesis
Member
If I found out a friend didn't believe in gay marriage or global warming I would absolutely cut ties with them. How is ending a friendship over someone being an anti-vaxxer any different?
Fundamental value differences are totally valid reasons to distance yourself in a relationship. If someone is actively hurting the world with their ignorant beliefs, I'm not gonna validate them with my friendship.
Fundamental value differences are totally valid reasons to distance yourself in a relationship. If someone is actively hurting the world with their ignorant beliefs, I'm not gonna validate them with my friendship.
TetraGenesis
Member
Yeah, so helpful when they're literally directly leading to the deaths of innocent children.
No because
.
These people are ok with endangering the lives of those who can't speak up. Pure trash.
Westbahnhof
Banned
Imagine you had a child that can never be vaccinated due to allergies or autoimmune disease.
If you have empathy for a parent or child like that, it doesn't sound like you could have a deep, meaningful relationship with a complete anti-vaccer.
They might as well enjoy drunk driving in your neighborhood from time to time.
disagreeing over something is one thing (although your friend's uninformed position is disappointing), but if they are so wrapped up in maintaining it ego wise that they disrespect you...then they don't sound like best friend material to me.
don't even sound like a decent friend.
don't even sound like a decent friend.
curiouscharles
Member
EGGS-OVER-ACTLY.
seriously people, your time is your most precious resource, don't waste it associating with imbeciles.
yeah, finding good friends is hard.
[yeah, finding good friends is hard].
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Anti-vaxxers are straight up actually killing people with their bullshit, its a very real and dangerous problem, it ain't some frickin' difference of opinion.
Enough of this cowardly and selfish acceptance of dangerous ignorance, it only enables them and its why the US is a racist, anti-intellectual dumpster fire, nobody confronts their friends and family on their bullshit. I wouldn't be surprised if all the people saying to ignore this are all white.
Enough of this cowardly and selfish acceptance of dangerous ignorance, it only enables them and its why the US is a racist, anti-intellectual dumpster fire, nobody confronts their friends and family on their bullshit. I wouldn't be surprised if all the people saying to ignore this are all white.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Nailed it.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
From my point of view this doesn't seem like the kind of argument you should be losing friends over.
Muffin1611
Banned
Skellig Gra
Member
I'm sure insulting him directly will change his mind.
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Dead children are certainly less important than your friendships.
That's not hyperbole, that what's the anti-vax endgame will be; thousands of little kids dying from once easily vaccinated shit like mumps and measles like it was the 1600's again.
Caddywompus
Member
If it's a calculated move to end the friendship in the hopes to ultimately open her eyes, I can agree with that, even if it's a little convoluted TV sitcom solution. But if that's what it takes to get through to a conspiracy theorist then so be it, he knows her better than us.
Ending a friendship over a conspiracy theory that can be easily disproved with a little effort is asinine just as ignoring it would be.
The OP from ending up with a deadly disease. Maybe getting the friend to think twice about this anti-vax thing if she values the friendship.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
How some of you can even respect an anti-vaxxer enough to call them a friend is mindblowing.
Muffin1611
Banned
I'm sorry, but me talking to him when he actively ignored the last 3 pages just to make this post isn't gonna change anything.
Really, really sorry that I don't have the patience to reiterate my stance every time someone else joins who hasn't read the thread.
The problem isn't that it's hard to disprove, the problem is that his friend probably doesn't care if he has good sources.
As I said, if he can convince her rather soon, all good.
If not, this is totally worth to end a friendship over.
This is something that I've come to realize OP. People will always be people. Even incredibly smart college educated people will often be people. People are illogical. They don't always use logic and common sense or understand that sources conflicting warrant deeper investigation. Your friend heard this from a source she trusted, her doctor (shame on him/her). She's had the same sentiment probably being parroted by people she trusted, and lastly, confirmation bias, which acts in us all, has her unwilling to listen to reason.
Usually, I wouldn't say it warranted a loss in friendship, but the fact that she doubles down on the autism worse than death narrative when you have autism shows a lack of respect, awareness, and empathy. Those things together are enough to lose a friend over. She probably simply has not thought about what it means for a child to have polio vs autism, and assumes the changes of polio are so minute that they are zero compared to the chances of her child getting autism (if the whole vaccination causes autism was legit) so she sees it as making the best decision. Either way, she's completely alienated you, especially by doubling down, and you don't have to keep someone like that around if she's not able to do some introspection and apologize.
Sorry you had to go through that OP. And yes I wish people were not so gullible, but it's honstly very natural. People get stupid when it comes to their children especially.
Usually, I wouldn't say it warranted a loss in friendship, but the fact that she doubles down on the autism worse than death narrative when you have autism shows a lack of respect, awareness, and empathy. Those things together are enough to lose a friend over. She probably simply has not thought about what it means for a child to have polio vs autism, and assumes the changes of polio are so minute that they are zero compared to the chances of her child getting autism (if the whole vaccination causes autism was legit) so she sees it as making the best decision. Either way, she's completely alienated you, especially by doubling down, and you don't have to keep someone like that around if she's not able to do some introspection and apologize.
Sorry you had to go through that OP. And yes I wish people were not so gullible, but it's honstly very natural. People get stupid when it comes to their children especially.
I dunno, saying that 'I'd rather have my children die than turn out like you' is a pretty good reason to cut someone off.
Captainbojanglesiii
Banned
If I took GAF's advice dropping friends and family, I think I would have no one left
That being said, to say that to the face of an autistic person goes beyond even being an anti-vaxxer, which is already pretty terrible. Like that's just straight disrespecting you
That being said, to say that to the face of an autistic person goes beyond even being an anti-vaxxer, which is already pretty terrible. Like that's just straight disrespecting you
"Have you ever seen an Amish person with autism?"
That's probably one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard considering you live in Holland. What an utterly idiotic statement. I'm all for live and let live, but man, that's a weird way to see the world, especially given how aggressive she was towards you.
That's probably one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard considering you live in Holland. What an utterly idiotic statement. I'm all for live and let live, but man, that's a weird way to see the world, especially given how aggressive she was towards you.
Westbahnhof
Banned
Hah, really? Holland?
I mean, you can switch that around.
All Amish people I've ever talked to have been autistic. Also, 8-armed and sulfur based lifeforms.
John Kowalski
Banned
Who needs friends anyway.
ClosingADoor
Member
Luckily we are still way above 90% vaccination rate in Holland, but the government is already starting vaccination campaigns to prevent it getting lower. We had two years of lower vaccination ares in a row (each 0,5%, so not that high, but still).
Italy just made it law that kids are to be vaccinated. I hope that isn't going to be necessary in a few years, but I won't have a problem with it if they implement such a thing.
Fuck if any innocent kids get polio or other terrible diseases because their parents have grown up in a world where those things aren't a worry anymore. Because of the very same vaccinations they are against. It is unbelievable.
This stuff is not a "different opinion", it's just stupidity.
Italy just made it law that kids are to be vaccinated. I hope that isn't going to be necessary in a few years, but I won't have a problem with it if they implement such a thing.
Fuck if any innocent kids get polio or other terrible diseases because their parents have grown up in a world where those things aren't a worry anymore. Because of the very same vaccinations they are against. It is unbelievable.
This stuff is not a "different opinion", it's just stupidity.
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