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Transistor
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(07-16-2017, 12:23 AM)
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Me purchasing it.

Seriously. I want a switch, but I learned not buy the first iteration of portable Nintendo hardware a long time ago
batfax
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(07-16-2017, 12:24 AM)
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I really hope if they do a mid-gen upgrade it's entirely based on the dock. The one right now barely does anything anyway, and that way I wouldn't have to get a whole new system.
OmegaDL50
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(07-16-2017, 12:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pancakes R Us

Any reason why the battery life can't be better with a smaller screen? I'm no expert in this area though, just assumed that it could be equal or better as it won't need to power 6" screen.

Have you seen the inside of a Switch. internals show the battery alone takes up roughly 60% of the inside of the console. By making the console smaller that means you'd need to use a smaller battery or shrink the other components which may potentially result in less functionality.



Trying to cram the same battery into an even smaller case plus having built-in circuitry for buttons and analog sticks / HD rumble isn't really going to fly without some sort of caveat.
Last edited by OmegaDL50; 07-16-2017 at 12:29 AM.
JCX
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(07-16-2017, 12:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

The joycons are the least important aspect of the Switch. The point of the device is to be a home console that you can take with you. A Pocket Switch would still accomplish that--and it'd still be compatible with additional joycons if you were into that.

How do you play it if you have to dock the Mini to put it on a TV? Maybe it could come with a Chromecast like dongle, but that would basically turn it into a Wii U.
ZOONAMI
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(07-16-2017, 12:26 AM)
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The dock is like a sub $5 bom for Nintendo lol. If they did a switch mini with built in controls it would just come with a smaller dock. The dock as it is is literally a piece of shit. Cheap as fuck plastic, charging, and hdmi out with a scaler is all it really is. If needed they could just include a mini hdmi dongle and not have any performance increase of people really want to plug it in. If they can sell the existing dock for 50 bucks the bom is pretty negligible.

Or yeah post below.
molnizzle
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(07-16-2017, 12:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by OmegaDL50

I don't know how this would work. The analogs on the Switch mini would stick out too far making it impossible to fit into the dock.

The Dock is narrow enough as it is just to fit the Switch.

Also shrinking the unit into a Mini is most certainly going to diminish the battery life, the Switch as-is is basically 60% battery on the inside leaving little else for the circuit board components and fan.

The idea for a Mini would be nice I guess, but with the Switch itself already being portable as is, It may be somewhat redundant.

The idea is it would have its own dock design available separately.

Originally Posted by JCX

How do you play it if you have to dock the Mini to put it on a TV? Maybe it could come with a Chromecast like dongle, but that would basically turn it into a Wii U.

Same way I do now, with a Pro controller. If you have to buy a separate dock it's not out of line to expect people to buy a second controller too. Hell, maybe the "mini" dock would be bundled with a pro controller. That wouldn't be a bad idea.
Graphics Horse
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(07-16-2017, 12:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by OmegaDL50


Also shrinking the unit into a Mini is most certainly going to diminish the battery life, the Switch as-is is basically 60% battery on the inside leaving little else for the circuit board components and fan.

That particular design is an inch wider than the current Switch! And who knows how thick, they could go with a wedge shape similar to the 2DS to accommodate the same shoulder button design if they wanted.
Quasar
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(07-16-2017, 12:27 AM)
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Well for iteration/revision I'd expect a more power efficient model. Whilst I'd think they could take some learning from feedback about the joycon connections and revision there would lead to incompatibilities which would be too much hassle with a revision.

As for a next gen switch...well I'd hope for a next gen tegra of some kind. x2 or whatever is next. Maybe they'd look at sensors for AR. Hopefully a better communications solution than offloading it onto smart phones.
ZOONAMI
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(07-16-2017, 12:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Quasar

Well for iteration/revision I'd expect a more power efficient model. Whilst I'd think they could take some learning from feedback about the joycon connections and revision there would lead to incompatibilities which would be too much hassle with a revision.

As for a next gen switch...well I'd hope for a next gen tegra of some kind. x2 or whatever is next. Maybe they'd look at sensors for AR. Hopefully a better communications solution than offloading it onto smart phones.

I still can't believe they don't have a firmware upgrade in the pipe for mic support. Insanity if not.
Reki
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(07-16-2017, 12:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

The joycons are the least important aspect of the Switch.

Not so sure about that:

Originally Posted by Shinya Takahashi

From the beginning, we also felt it was very important that the system come with two controllers. In the Famicom days, the system had two controllers and it was possible for people to instantly hand a controller to somebody else like this and sit down to play together. The idea of having the two controllers connected to a system that you can bring on the go was also one of our early conversations.

Also this:

Originally Posted by Quasar

Well for iteration/revision I'd expect a more power efficient model. Whilst I'd think they could take some learning from feedback about the joycon connections and revision there would lead to incompatibilities which would be too much hassle with a revision.

If you want a clear message you need to maintain compatibility with the accesories. It would be maddening if you buy a second dock (an overpriced piece of plastic) and it doesn't work with the new models.
Last edited by Reki; 07-16-2017 at 12:37 AM.
molnizzle
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(07-16-2017, 12:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Reki

Not so sure about that:

I meant for me and others who use the console like I do.

The standard Switch wouldn't be replaced by the mini. Both would be available. The mini would just be a more portable option for people who wanted that. Or people like me who just want a real d-pad when undocked.
MisterCTwo
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(07-16-2017, 12:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kickz

I can't begin to imagine what's next as far as an iteration on the current Switch, but I'd buy a Switch Mini in a heartbeat!
Qwyjibo
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(07-16-2017, 12:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kickz

Instant pre-order/purchase for me.

Current Switch? Not so much.
Graphics Horse
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(07-16-2017, 12:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Reki

Not so sure about that:

The Switch is definitely being presented as a home system that you can uniquely take on the go, I have no doubt they will have a 'true' handheld in the works, question is will it be fully compatible with Switch games? I'd like to think it would, but as Reggie said recently about their attitude to 3DS 'we're greedy'.
Serenitynow
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(07-16-2017, 12:42 AM)
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Well I doubt a revised Switch is going to get any thinner due to the rails needing to be a certain width for the joycon to be forward compatible
Council Pop
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(07-16-2017, 12:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

The joycons are the least important aspect of the Switch. The point of the device is to be a home console that you can take with you. A Pocket Switch would still accomplish that--and it'd still be compatible with additional joycons if you were into that.

Lol what? You say that a smaller switch without a dock would be true to the core concept of the Nintendo Switch, even though you wouldn't be able to switch between handheld and console mode?
Angel Whispers
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(07-16-2017, 12:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by wanders

How is a portable Wii U not bleeding tech...

He's better off on your Ignore List. It was a shit post.
atbigelow
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(07-16-2017, 12:47 AM)
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I am thinking that Nintendo is going to release more devices that are compatible with the Switch library, but will not carry the same name. Of course, this is the company that released a system called WII U so who knows how they'll name the fucking thing. We could be looking at a "Switch Home" and "Switch Pocket".
molnizzle
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(07-16-2017, 12:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Council Pop

Lol what? You say that a smaller switch without a dock would be true to the core concept of the Nintendo Switch, even though you wouldn't be able to switch between handheld and console mode?

...but you could, you'd just need to buy a dock/controller if you wanted to.

The mini/Pocket would be an option for people who value that functionality over that of the standard Switch. The standard Switch would still exist. It would still get revisions. The hypothetical mini Switch would simply be more convenient for certain consumers.

Originally Posted by atbigelow

I am thinking that Nintendo is going to release more devices that are compatible with the Switch library, but will not carry the same name. Of course, this is the company that released a system called WII U so who knows how they'll name the fucking thing. We could be looking at a "Switch Home" and "Switch Pocket".

I could see that as well. Thing is, with all the games and accessories branded "Switch" I think they'll keep that name. Switch Pocket or Pocket Switch is what I'm thinking.
Council Pop
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(07-16-2017, 12:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

...but you could, you'd just need to buy a dock/controller if you wanted to.

The mini/Pocket would be an option for people who value that functionality over that of the standard Switch. The standard Switch would still exist. It would still get revisions. The hypothetical mini Switch would simply be more convenient for certain consumers.

So basically Nintendo wouldn't be able to make it any cheaper, it would have a smaller screen, and you wouldn't even get a dock with it? Yeaaaah don't think that will be a big seller.

Plus the fact that it wouldn't fit in the original Nintendo Switch dock, so Nintendo would have to produce a brand new dock which would only be sold separately.
Reki
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(07-16-2017, 12:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

I meant for me and others who use the console like I do.

The standard Switch wouldn't be replaced by the mini. Both would be available. The mini would just be a more portable option for people who wanted that. Or people like me who just want a real d-pad when undocked.

Oh ok. It's just that I find hard to think of a Switch Mini that could maintain compatibility with the accesories, which would be key to keeping the marketing clear. You could use your Wii accesories with the Wii U; if they launch new models in the Switch family, they'll try to make them compatible with things like the dock.

Originally Posted by Graphics Horse

The Switch is definitely being presented as a home system that you can uniquely take on the go, I have no doubt they will have a 'true' handheld in the works, question is will it be fully compatible with Switch games? I'd like to think it would, but as Reggie said recently about their attitude to 3DS 'we're greedy'.

That's true, but I believe that any hardware from them that's not a retro console or a mythical QOL machine wouldn't be launched until 2019. At that point the 3ds would already be dead and buried I hope, so no reason for the new console not to be part of the Switch family.

Tangential, but I believe that developing for and supporting the 3DS until next year is more of a NCL thing. You just need to read NOA's marketing material and compare the space and effort dedicated to Switch and 3DS. Reggie wants to switch completely, I'm sure!
Last edited by Reki; 07-16-2017 at 01:03 AM.
molnizzle
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(07-16-2017, 01:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Council Pop

So basically Nintendo wouldn't be able to make it any cheaper, it would have a smaller screen, and you wouldn't even get a dock with it? Yeaaaah don't think that will be a big seller.

Plus the fact that it wouldn't fit in the original Nintendo Switch dock, so Nintendo would have to produce a brand new dock which would only be sold separately.

It'd be cheaper. Smaller screen, no HD rumble, no included dock/grip, no individual joy cons (with their durable, premium-feeling connector hardware).

As for the dock, they made separate sized charging docks for every revision of the 3DS too. Same concept.
atbigelow
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(07-16-2017, 01:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

I could see that as well. Thing is, with all the games and accessories branded "Switch" I think they'll keep that name. Switch Pocket or Pocket Switch is what I'm thinking.

It just puts them into a weird position if their other devices don't have the capability of being "Switched" between docked and console. But perhaps they'll be able to retain some aspects of that, dunno. They could always interpret Switch to mean a handful of other things. So it might not be a problem.
sanstesy
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(07-16-2017, 01:03 AM)
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They are not gonna abandon the dock and Joy-Cons and still call it a "Switch". That wouldn't be a hybrid console anymore - it would just be a standard handheld. You can also buy add-ons for the PSP to make it a home console but no one calls the PSP a hybrid console. How does marketing work?

It will either be named differently or not exist.
Council Pop
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(07-16-2017, 01:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

It'd be cheaper. Smaller screen, no HD rumble, no included dock/grip, no individual joy cons.

As for the dock, they made separate sized charging docks for every revision of the 3DS too. Same concept.

It would definitely have HD rumble, that's a key feature, the pro controller has it. The screen size would barely reduce cost, if at all. The dock and grip are pieces of plastic, they literally cost pence. The lack of individual joycons is also basically irrelevant in terms of cost, as all the tech would still be in the Switch mini- as it is in the pro controller.
molnizzle
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(07-16-2017, 01:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by atbigelow

It just puts them into a weird position if their other devices don't have the capability of being "Switched" between docked and console. But perhaps they'll be able to retain some aspects of that, dunno. They could always interpret Switch to mean a handful of other things. So it might not be a problem.

They could still "switch" though. You'd just need to buy a separate dock and controller.

Out of the box, you're right. Which is why I think it'll be called the Switch Pocket or something similar - to drive home the point that this is a special version of the device intended for a certain use case.

Originally Posted by Council Pop

It would definitely have HD rumble, that's a key feature, the pro controller has it. The screen size would barely reduce cost, if at all. The dock and grip are pieces of plastic, they literally cost pence. The lack of individual joycons is also basically irrelevant in terms of cost, as all the tech would still be in the Switch mini- as it is in the pro controller.

Pro controller HD rumble is far less effective than joycon HD rumble. Which is why I could see them abandoning it completely for a dedicated portable. It's already a diminished experience unless you're using individual joycons in each hand.

Smaller screen would indeed lower the price too.
Council Pop
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(07-16-2017, 01:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

They could still "switch" though. You'd just need to buy a separate dock and controller.

Out of the box, you're right. Which is why I think it'll be called the Switch Pocket or something similar - to drive home the point that this is a special version of the device intended for a certain use case.



Pro controller HD rumble is far less effective than joycon HD rumble. Which is why I could see them abandoning it completely for a dedicated portable. It's already a diminished experience unless you're using individual joycons in each hand.

Smaller screen would indeed lower the price too.

To be quite honest, the more you're speculating about this Switch Pocket, the less plausible its sounding. It wouldn't make branding sense or financial sense. It would be essentially pointless.
Reki
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(07-16-2017, 01:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

It'd be cheaper. Smaller screen, no HD rumble, no included dock/grip, no individual joy cons (with their durable, premium-feeling connector hardware).

As for the dock, they made separate sized charging docks for every revision of the 3DS too. Same concept.

Genuine question, why would they abandon HD rumble? I assume it's not that expensive.

And also, the difference with the 3DS is that the docks just charged the thing. As far as I know the cables were the same, so you could charge any 3DS with any cable, no dock needed.

The Switch dock costs like 90 bucks. To those who bought it to use a second TV, what would you say when they want the Switch Mini? "You only need to buy this new Dock Mini for 80 dollars!"

Originally Posted by Council Pop

To be quite honest, the more you're speculating about this Switch Pocket, the less plausible its sounding. It wouldn't make branding sense or financial sense. It would be essentially pointless.

Even though I agree, a cheaper entry model is key to Nintendo's traditional handheld strategy.
Last edited by Reki; 07-16-2017 at 01:13 AM.
molnizzle
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(07-16-2017, 01:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Council Pop

To be quite honest, the more you're speculating about this Switch Pocket, the less plausible its sounding. It wouldn't make branding sense or financial sense. It would be essentially pointless.

I still see kids playing 3DS in public. Pretty often. The current Switch isn't really a feasible replacement for that. Thing is way too big for a 7 year old playing Pokemon.

That would be the "point" of it. A dedicated portable that shares the same library as the Switch so it doesn't split Nintendo's dev teams too thin. One software ecosystem with multiple hardware options. Something for everybody.

Originally Posted by Reki

Genuine question, why would they abandon HD rumble? I assume it's not that expensive.

And also, the difference with the 3DS is that the docks just charged the thing. As far as I know the cables were the same, so you could charge any 3DS with any cable, no dock needed.

The Switch dock costs like 90 bucks. To those who bought it to use a second TV, what would you say when they want the Switch Mini? "You only need to buy this new Dock Mini for 80 dollars!"

I mean, they'd theoretically be selling their original Switch + docks to offset the cost.

The primary purpose of a mini Switch would be portability. The ability to dock it and such would just be supported for people who want it (like me).

As for abandoning HD rumble, to save costs and increase battery life since the primary use case will be portable and it would need to have a smaller battery.
Last edited by molnizzle; 07-16-2017 at 01:23 AM.
ArtHands
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(07-16-2017, 01:15 AM)

Originally Posted by Kickz

Why place a corpse besides Nintendo Switch?
ShadowFox08
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(07-16-2017, 01:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by OmegaDL50

Have you seen the inside of a Switch. internals show the battery alone takes up roughly 60% of the inside of the console. By making the console smaller that means you'd need to use a smaller battery or shrink the other components which may potentially result in less functionality.



Trying to cram the same battery into an even smaller case plus having built-in circuitry for buttons and analog sticks / HD rumble isn't really going to fly without some sort of caveat.

That's definitely not 60%. Lol
Maybe graphene batteries will be the future...
Council Pop
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(07-16-2017, 01:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

I still see kids playing 3DS' in public. Pretty often. The current Switch isn't really a feasible replacement for that. Thing is way too big for a 7 year old playing Pokemon.

That would be the "point" of it. A dedicated portable that shares the same library as the Switch so it doesn't split Nintendo's dev teams too thin. One software ecosystem with multiple hardware options. Something for everybody.

Sure, but: if Nintendo can't make it cheaper, what's the point? I mean, they could keep the Switch at Ł280 or whatever and introduce the 'mini' instead of doing a price drop, but I'm not sure there's any sense in that either.
Atheerios
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(07-16-2017, 01:17 AM)
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We will see a cheaper, smaller Switch just before Pokémon comes out. I can almost guarantee it.
Speely
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(07-16-2017, 01:18 AM)
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I think an X2 Switch with a 1080p screen and a VR dock is a possibility. Budget VR with a flagship Nintendo title would be very attractive to lots of folks by then, I would think. The device could also offer a Pro-like boost for the device when used normally, provided developers supported that.

2020.
molnizzle
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(07-16-2017, 01:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Council Pop

Sure, but: if Nintendo can't make it cheaper, what's the point? I mean, they could keep the Switch at Ł280 or whatever and introduce the 'mini' instead of doing a price drop, but I'm not sure there's any sense in that either.

It would definitely need to be made cheaper. For sure, that's the only way it makes sense. Which is why such a device is probably at least 1-2 years away.

Smaller screen, smaller battery, less complicated industrial design, cut the rumble motors, perhaps a die shrink for the Tegra. It'll get there eventually.
J@hranimo
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(07-16-2017, 01:20 AM)
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Honestly stop asking these questions and play. the. games.
Atheerios
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(07-16-2017, 01:23 AM)
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Everything's on the table when it comes to Switch's life cycle


"It is Nintendo Switch, so maybe we'll switch it up!" jokes Takahashi, responding to a question about whether Switch's life cycle will resemble more the company's TV consoles (completely new ideas at five-year-plus intervals) or its handhelds (subtler changes every few years). "Certainly, we've designed Nintendo Switch in a way that it can be used by consumers in the way that best suits them. I think we may see that people who have bought a Nintendo home console in the past traditionally, they may treat Switch like a home console and buy it and use it for a long period of time."


"Whereas people who have been traditionally Nintendo handheld gamers, they may buy Nintendo Switch and then for example, if a new version were to come out later, then maybe they would decide to upgrade to that. Or, for example, because you can take the Joy-Con off the system, then I guess that leaves open the possibility of something else that might get attached. There's obviously a lot of different developments that we could look at from that perspective as well."


http://time.com/4661055/nintendo-switch-interview/
Reki
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(07-16-2017, 01:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

I mean, they'd theoretically be selling their original Switch + docks to offset the cost.

The primary purpose of a mini Switch would be portability. The ability to dock it and such would just be supported for people who want it (like me).

As for abandoning HD rumble, to save costs and increase battery life since the primary use case will be portable and it would need to have a smaller battery.

Yeah, you may be right. I'm sure we will see iterations in the Switch family, it's just that a smaller Switch brings so much problems to the table that I can't wrap my head around it. I hope Nintendo can satisfy those players though!
Speely
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(07-16-2017, 01:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by J@hranimo

Honestly stop asking these questions and play. the. games.

What? One has nothing to do with the other. I ask questions all the time and still manage to play the hell out of my Switch every day.

Not sure what you're getting at.
atbigelow
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(07-16-2017, 01:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Atheerios

We will see a cheaper, smaller Switch just before Pokémon comes out. I can almost guarantee it.

That's the way I see it. They will be coming out with something for Pokemon. They need to drive the price down and I don't see them willing to sacrifice the existing model.
Avallon
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(07-16-2017, 01:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by OmegaDL50

Internals show the battery alone takes up roughly 60% of the inside of the console.

That's clearly less than 50%.
Huge Succeeded
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(07-16-2017, 01:31 AM)
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I expect a Switch Mini to happen, but not until the next Switch iteration.

I think that in something like two years, we're bound to see a Switch TV: a dirt-cheap, tiny little box that you can buy to play the Switch's library at home, once the Switch has a stronger library and once Nintendo's more thoroughly sold people on the hybrid angle.

Sometime after that, I'm expecting a new Switch iteration that's the same size as the current version, with a more efficient GPU (like X1's successor) that renders 'docked' visuals on an inbuilt 1080p screen.

At that point I think a Switch Mini will be in the cards. With a more efficient GPU, it's possible that Nintendo could shrink the size of the entire device, battery included, and still render games w/'undocked' performance on a smaller 720p screen, with acceptable battery life. And it could function exactly as any other Switch when docked.
Adam Prime
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(07-16-2017, 01:34 AM)
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Isn't this system hinged in the fact that you can SWITCH from TV to handheld? Would they really take away the defining and namesake of the system?
Speely
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(07-16-2017, 01:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Adam Prime

Isn't this system hinged in the fact that you can SWITCH from TV to handheld? Would they really take away the defining and namesake of the system?

I mean, yes. But I guess they could release a "Nintendo Swift" with the same font and have the logo be the device instead of dual joy cons or something.

I am not saying I think they will do it or that they should, but I think they could get around the image issue with some clever branding.
Vital Tundra
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(07-16-2017, 01:43 AM)
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Switch 2, better internal hardware, slight model changes, etc. Fully bc with Switch. I don't xpect anything crazy from now until forever from now.
epeternally
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(07-16-2017, 01:43 AM)
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I don't think a smaller screened Switch is going to happen. Dropping more than an inch would require all games to be patched with scaling so that the text and interface aren't too tiny on the Switch Mini and Nintendo doesn't seem like the kind of company to force that upon everyone who has ever developed a Switch game.
jdstorm
Member
(07-16-2017, 01:52 AM)

Originally Posted by B-Dubs

Either they figure out how to shrink all the chips or we see a giant break through in battery tech. Only way it happens.



We want better battery life, not worse.

The switch is on 20nm chips and next year we are looking at 7nm becoming a thing. We should be able to see a revision with better battery life come soon.

Honestly i would just expect a new new2ds with the the internals of a Switch, better battery life and Doc compadability.
Last edited by jdstorm; 07-16-2017 at 01:55 AM.
Fourth Storm
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(07-16-2017, 01:53 AM)
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I think that there will certainly be iterations, but somehow the idea of the detachable joy con controllers will remain. I don't see a portable switch without detachable joy cons being in the cards, but that's just me.
Huge Succeeded
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(07-16-2017, 01:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by epeternally

I don't think a smaller screened Switch is going to happen. Dropping more than an inch would require all games to be patched with scaling so that the text and interface aren't too tiny on the Switch Mini and Nintendo doesn't seem like the kind of company to force that upon everyone who has ever developed a Switch game.

I don't think that's a concern for Nintendo considering their history with handheld hardware. The smallest Switch UIs on a 5 inch screen will barely be as small as your average GBA/3DS XL UIs and UI elements. And don't even get me started on GB and GB Micro
Tatersalad
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(07-16-2017, 01:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Transistor

Me purchasing it.

Seriously. I want a switch, but I learned not buy the first iteration of portable Nintendo hardware a long time ago

Kinda how I'm feeling at the moment. Want to get one, but I'm a bit wary of the technical issues (joycon syncing, screen scratching via dock, warping) and the 3DS XL came out a bit over a year after the original 3DS so I'm in wait and see mode if a revision is in the works for 2018.

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