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Sande
Member
(07-17-2017, 07:56 AM)
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She's annoying. Stops you from killing who you want to kill and is difficult to kill because she's zipping around like a mosquito (Ana is somewhat similar but at least she has to aim and position correctly). Resurrect is the most "no fun allowed" ult in the game.

This stuff about her or her players being female sounds really farfetched, but what do I know.
Phoenix RISING
Member
(07-17-2017, 07:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by MattPeters

People hate 1 trick Mercy's who hide and wait for the huge rez, instead of doing a 1 or 2 person rez that can turn a fight.

As someone who picks Mercy as a #1 healer, a 1 rez turning a fight is rare. I'm talking, CP map and you need to NOT be the only person on/near the point to force/reset overtime clock.

I can see 2 person rez more often, but 1? Ehhhhhhhhh
Defuser
Member
(07-17-2017, 07:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by mollipen

You insult Mercy, you may as well be insulting me personally!




I'm a hardcore Mercy main, and I can play Zenyatta, D.Va, Symmetra, and Soldier:76 pretty decently, and Mei, Junkrat, and Sombra good enough to not be a drag on the team (with general skill knowledge then for every other character). As well, of all of the characters I play, Mercy is one of my bigger sources of stress, because I'm having to mentally track (and, when it makes sense, fight) the enemy team AND my five other teammates, all of whom I'm directly responsible for caring for.

Sorry main is the wrong word to use here. I should be saying is one trick.
OriginalPoe
Member
(07-17-2017, 07:58 AM)
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Blizz should introduce another character that has rez. Higher skill ceiling res character.
TheRedSnifit
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(07-17-2017, 07:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by OriginalPoe

Blizz should introduce another character that has rez. Higher skill ceiling res character.

They should just get rid of rez altogether.
OriginalPoe
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheRedSnifit

They should just get rid of rez altogether.

I wouldn't be opposed.
Frozenprince
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheRedSnifit

They should just get rid of rez altogether.

And do what? What could you reasonably replace her ult with that would keep her utility beyond just healing?
OriginalPoe
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Frozenprince

And do what? What could you reasonably replace her ult with that would keep her utility beyond just healing?

AoE heal+weapon boost?
Frozenprince
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by OriginalPoe

AoE heal+weapon boost?

That's pretty well worthless considering Zenny has an AoE heal that's functional immortality unless you get hit with another ult. And he has the added utility of being a damage dealer.

If you remove her ult you need to structurally alter her character and give her the ability to damage herself which makes her just like the other 3 healers which is dull.
WaterAstro
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:03 AM)
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Are there more support characters in Overwatch?

League doesn't have this problem. Supports are amazing and well designed in League.
TheRedSnifit
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(07-17-2017, 08:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Frozenprince

And do what? What could you reasonably replace her ult with that would keep her utility beyond just healing?

Rework the entire character from the ground up, then. If her entire utility is tied to such a stupid mechanic, then maybe she's a fundamentally broken character.
TatteredHat
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by WaterAstro

Are there more support characters in Overwatch?

League doesn't have this problem. Supports are amazing and well designed in League.

There are, aside from maybe Lucio they all have way higher skill ceilings.
Anoxida
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:06 AM)
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People hate mercy because lack of skill and her ult. Yes there are good and bad mercy but the amount of mercy one tricks are really high and shes the only hero where almost none of her mechanics translates to other heroes. Which mean if they cant play mercy then they are going to suck ass.

Mercy's biggest flaw is her ultimate. It just doesn't belong in a competitive game. Im actually suprised blizzard were stupid enough to implement a mechanic that reverse death in OW. You cant make a more powerful ultimate than that. So mercy get ult and they hide, their team obviously loses a 5vs6 but here she comes pressing Q.

Mercy everything wrong with OW and they need to overhaul her completely. Make her more offensive and give her another ult.
Last edited by Anoxida; 07-17-2017 at 08:08 AM.
Alucrid
(07-17-2017, 08:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by mollipen

I didn't say it was different from every other support (other than maybe Lucio), but I'd definitely argue that it's different that those in attack/damage roles.

why would it not be important to know where you team is as a dps player? maybe you have to peel for your supports if they're being targeted or know when to dive in with you tanks. also curious to know why you think mercy requires more game sense than lucio
pinkurocket
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(07-17-2017, 08:07 AM)
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Do people that complain about her being easy, also attempt to play her in competitive? She is 'easy' to play if you have a coordinated team, but try a solo queue and it's more frustration than an easy ride to the top. Players on your team all doing their own thing making it difficult to follow them and leaving you vulnerable. You getting killed all the time by enemies focussing on killing you, and your team refusing to look behind them or try to protect you. And then there's the inevitable complaints about not getting enough heals or that one genji that died on the other side of the map that wants a rez.

In my experience as playing her, it's fun to keep your team alive and always being on the lookout, holding the team together. Damage boosting makes you feel like you are helping get kills too; I definitely prefer to play Lucio or Ana, where you can support your team by also being more active in the fight, Lucio especially. However I just don't agree with Mercy getting trashed so much lately. Just being upset that she apparently gains SR easier than other heroes seems... bitter. And in my solo queue experience that isn't even so true at all.
OriginalPoe
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(07-17-2017, 08:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anoxida

People hate mercy because lack of skill and her ult. Yes there are good and bad mercy but the amoint of mercy one tricks are really high and shes thw only hero where almost none of her mechanics translates to other hero. Which mean if they cant play mercy then they are going to suck ass.

Mercy's biggest flaw is her ultimate. It just doesn't belong in a competitive game. Im actually suprised blizzard were stupid enough to implement a mechanic that reverse death in OW. You cant make a more powerful ultimate than that. So mercy got ult so they hide, theie team loses a 5vs6 then jumps in and press q, actively hiding is stupid.

Mercy everything wrong with OW and they need to overhaul her completely. Make her more offensive and give her another ult.

Okay, what about a moveset that compliments Pharah even more as a pair of aggressors?
Alucrid
(07-17-2017, 08:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by pinkurocket

Do people that complain about her being easy, also attempt to play her in competitive? She is 'easy' to play if you have a coordinated team, but try a solo queue and it's more frustration than an easy ride to the top. Players on your team all doing their own thing making it difficult to follow them and leaving you vulnerable. You getting killed all the time by enemies focussing on killing you, and your team refusing to look behind them or try to protect you. And then there's the inevitable complaints about not getting enough heals or that one genji that died on the other side of the map that wants a rez.

In my experience as playing her, it's fun to keep your team alive and always being on the lookout, holding the team together. Damage boosting makes you feel like you are helping get kills too; I definitely prefer to play Lucio or Ana, where you can support your team by also being more active in the fight, Lucio especially. However I just don't agree with Mercy getting trashed so much lately. Just being upset that she apparently gains SR easier than other heroes seems... bitter. And in my solo queue experience that isn't even so true at all.

if you're having difficulty playing mercy in a certain game...might that be a sign to switch?
Frozenprince
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by pinkurocket

Do people that complain about her being easy, also attempt to play her in competitive? She is 'easy' to play if you have a coordinated team, but try a solo queue and it's more frustration than an easy ride to the top. Players on your team all doing their own thing making it difficult to follow them and leaving you vulnerable. You getting killed all the time by enemies focussing on killing you, and your team refusing to look behind them or try to protect you. And then there's the inevitable complaints about not getting enough heals or that one genji that died on the other side of the map that wants a rez.

In my experience as playing her, it's fun to keep your team alive and always being on the lookout, holding the team together. Damage boosting makes you feel like you are helping get kills too; I definitely prefer to play Lucio or Ana, where you can support your team by also being more active in the fight, Lucio especially. However I just don't agree with Mercy getting trashed so much lately. Just being upset that she apparently gains SR easier than other heroes seems... bitter. And in my solo queue experience that isn't even so true at all.

This.

Good fucking luck if you're solo running and the enemy team has even a quasi competent Reaper. Get ready to die, a lot.
Garrett Hawke
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:09 AM)
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I don't think I agree with this article unfortunately. Mercy's gameplay role is just that it makes people hate her, because she can literally undo a push with her ult. m

There are other characters better suited to this discussion tho, such as why everyone is constantly calling Zarya ugly. Coincidentally Zarya is the only non-hourglass figure female character. Hmm. 🤔
hesido
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:11 AM)
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At the skill level I play, I never, ever saw Mercy hate. (2100-2800 SR). Since most players should be within that mediocre range I'm in, I don't think there's rampant Mercy hate at all. Quite the contrary, people begin asking for Mercy first.
Earthpainting
Knows which side
the bread is buttered on.
(07-17-2017, 08:12 AM)
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I primarily play tanks and supports, and I'll echo the sentiment in the thread. While toxicity is certainly present, and can take a misogynistic slant, I think Mercies catching the lion's share of the support branch makes sense. She's kind of annoying to play against due to the rez, and she can be annoying to play with due to her kit promoting hiding or being a pocket healer. Especially when a Pharah's in play, you can usually forget about getting heals from that Mercy, because she'll be split off from the team doing their own thing. If you see a group of two and one is Mercy, that's usually another indicator that she'll exclusively be healing one person. A special shout-out goes to all the Mercies who'd rather switch to their pistols than to another character when it isn't working out too.

She's not entirely incompatible with team-based games, but her kit sure enables some bad habits. People generally aren't fond of the snipers for similar reasons.

Originally Posted by TheRedSnifit

They should just get rid of rez altogether.

Getting rid of the rez itself shouldn't be necessary. Something as simple as making her ult slowly charge tick down as soon as she hasn't used her Caduceus Staff in the past 5 seconds would change a lot already. It'd disincentivise passive play, and make rezzing immediately after having respawned impossible.
Frozenprince
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(07-17-2017, 08:12 AM)
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This is one of the cases where I think "balance around the pro scene and tweak it for general play" is a bad move. Because as a general utility hero in most skill range that the vast majority of the playerbase are in, she's fine.
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(07-17-2017, 08:13 AM)
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I have played OW since launch and I am also active on GAF and the OW reddit. I have never heard of anyone hating Mercy, in-game and on forums.
Alucrid
(07-17-2017, 08:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Frozenprince

This is one of the cases where I think "balance around the pro scene and tweak it for general play" is a bad move. Because as a general utility hero in most skill range that the vast majority of the playerbase are in, she's fine.

what? it's the complete opposite in that rez is far worse for lower ranked players than it is for the pro scene
Anoxida
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(07-17-2017, 08:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by OriginalPoe

Okay, what about a moveset that compliments Pharah even more as a pair of aggressors?

I like the idea of certain heroes that have great synergy between them but at the same time it can't be too good because then we'll see thay mirror matchup every game. Right now u got the hiding mercy or the pharah/mercy both are tricky to kill and give mercy a good enough chance for a decent Q. Remove rez as her ult and yeah I think some more movement would work.
Garrett Hawke
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(07-17-2017, 08:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Frozenprince

This is one of the cases where I think "balance around the pro scene and tweak it for general play" is a bad move. Because as a general utility hero in most skill range that the vast majority of the playerbase are in, she's fine.

I think she is mostly fine but they need to re-look at invincibility during ult. I'm sure they could figure out something that lies between "totally invincible" and "suicide button", which it used to be a lot of the time.

For example maybe when she activates ult she could get 3-4s of 250 armour, which would make her hard to kill but not impossible.
Frozenprince
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

I think she is mostly fine but they need to re-look at invincibility during ult. I'm sure they could figure out something that lies between "totally invincible" and "suicide button", which it used to be a lot of the time.

For example maybe when she activates ult she could get 3-4s of 250 armour, which would make her hard to kill but not impossible.

Or fiddle with the range so you have to have direct LOS on dead characters, no more through walls rezing.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:15 AM)
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Not everyone hates Mercy.

Typical click bait bullshit nowadays.

I'd argue the contrary that most people are happy if they see someone playing a support class.
Kain
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(07-17-2017, 08:16 AM)
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Hating support and hating Mercy are two different things. In both cases this hate is stupid, but the fact is that you can hate (such a strong word for such a thing, but ok) one and not the other.

Support keeps people alive, you have to be very dense for hating support.
Phoenix944
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(07-17-2017, 08:17 AM)
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I hate Symetra more :)
but not when she's with my team
Gnome Scat
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(07-17-2017, 08:19 AM)
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I love Mercy and always give my vote to the healer.
Doctor Ironic
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(07-17-2017, 08:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by DR2K

I'd love her to be retooled to use Rez less and her pistol more. Since the game really doesn't let you play attack Mercy

Under no circumstances should anyone ever be rewarded for playing "attack Mercy."
TheRedSnifit
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(07-17-2017, 08:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alucrid

if you're having difficulty playing mercy in a certain game...might that be a sign to switch?

And lose out on that easy Mercy SR?
veloxStrix
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(07-17-2017, 08:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by ElyrionX

I have played OW since launch and I am also active on GAF and the OW reddit. I have never heard of anyone hating Mercy, in-game and on forums.

I don't know how.
mollipen
(07-17-2017, 08:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alucrid

why would it not be important to know where you team is as a dps player? maybe you have to peel for your supports if they're being targeted or know when to dive in with you tanks. also curious to know why you think mercy requires more game sense than lucio

To be clear, I'm not just talking about knowing where they are, I'm talking about "keeping track" of them in healer terms. Maybe you disagree that it's harder or all that different, but in all of the games I've played healers in, I tend to feel like team tracking management works very differently there than it does when your role is more combat-focused. And while, sure, there are going to be times you need to help a teammate out or team up or other such things, your primary job isn't doing that—it's killing the enemy. When your primary job is keeping your team alive, for me it tends to feel like a far more stressful kind of pressure.


Originally Posted by veloxStrix

Your avatar was driving me insane so I fixed it. Don't feel any obligation to change it.

I'm not sure how the text color change "fixed" it. I took it straight from Splashbrush's art, and that's the color it originally was.


Originally Posted by Defuser

Sorry main is the wrong word to use here. I should be saying is one trick.

Sure, but to some level that's a complain that can be leveled against almost any kind of player that solos only one hero. One of the biggest reasons I'm so pro-random heroes mode is that it really helps you learn every character and learn how to play them. That way, even if your first, second, third, fourth, and fifth pick all get taken someone, you can still at least handle whatever choices are left to at least some level.
Last edited by mollipen; 07-17-2017 at 08:26 AM.
Frozenprince
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(07-17-2017, 08:23 AM)
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It's super stressful being a healer that only can heal. Because you are 100% reliant on these other 5 players to keep your ass alive.
Rickenslacker
nothing's easy
nothing's too hard
(07-17-2017, 08:24 AM)
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It's nothing about support or misogyny, it's strictly a Mercy thing. Ana has had a lot of play being a female support character, but the only "hate" levied towards her was during the times where she was perhaps too good. But Mercy hate is more of a meme towards the nature of Mercy players who may pick her in places where it doesn't work well, but can't play any other character within the skill rating they're in. Then there's the whole "Mercy main btw" meme of the implication that playing Mercy is some thankless job that requires you to grovel towards the person playing them.
DR2K
Doesn't buy fighting games to actually play them
(07-17-2017, 08:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by WaterAstro

Are there more support characters in Overwatch?

League doesn't have this problem. Supports are amazing and well designed in League.

There's 4 healers.

Mercy
Ana
Lucio
Zenyatta

They're all amazing and well designed, the problem is that there are only 4 of them and most decent comps require more than 1 healer and Genji/Hanzo exist.

Originally Posted by Doctor Ironic

Under no circumstances should anyone ever be rewarded for playing "attack Mercy."

Right. That should change if she gets retooled.
veloxStrix
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(07-17-2017, 08:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by mollipen


I'm not sure how the text color change "fixed" it. I took it straight from the Splashbrush art, and that's the color it originally was.

The counter of the "a" is white and not transparent. If you flip to the night theme its more noticeable. That's all I changed. The color is probably a side-effect of my ps setup.
Alucrid
(07-17-2017, 08:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by mollipen

To be clear, I'm not just talking about knowing where they are, I'm talking about "keeping track" of them in healer terms. Maybe you disagree that it's harder or all that different, but in all of the games I've played healers in, I tend to feel like team tracking management works very differently there than it does when your role is more combat-focused. And while, sure, there are going to be times you need to help a teammate out or team up or other such things, your primary job isn't doing that—it's killing the enemy. When your primary job is keeping your team alive, for me it tends to feel like a far more stressful kind of pressure.




I'm not sure how the text color change "fixed" it. I took it straight from Splashbrush's art, and that's the color it originally was.

i mean it's basically the exact opposite. for healers you should know where the enemy is, but what health your teammates are at. for dps you should know where you teammates are, but need to know the health of the enemy team.
Goatless
Junior Member
(07-17-2017, 08:27 AM)
Mercy, Lucio, Zenyatta were the 3 healers. Zenyatta was too weak and Mercys ult is just damn powerfull so i mained Mercy. While the new addition of Ana is fun and powerfull it can be really frustrating when teammates run around and avoid your heals or other teammate run into your ult/heal shots/heal granate.

Does Mercy require good aim? No, but there is a big difference between a good Mercy and a bad Mercy (unless it's a very onesided match). There are other Heroes in this game that don't require good aim.
Hasney
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:27 AM)
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Weird, the only hate I've ever seen is people blaming Mercy for their loss. Constantly.
Frozenprince
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(07-17-2017, 08:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Hasney

Weird, the only hate I've ever seen is people blaming Mercy for their loss. Constantly.

"Mercy, you sucked, I'm sorry"

*Mercy player gets the only card for their team for 40% health healed*
Ser Booty
Junior Member
(07-17-2017, 08:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by TimeEffect

I feel like you are over-valuing her gameplay.

I heal whoever has a giant red cross on their name and don't really prioritize the order because it doesn't usually matter. In a frantic moment, Ill probably heal squishies first, but Im really just holding down a button and keeping meters up.

Soldier is not much more skilled, but his ultimate at least requires some thought-- positioning, targeting, and timing. Mercy's is not the same at all because hers is simply to zoom into the skulls and press a button. Mercy doesn't need to target anyone in particular, and really doesn't even need good positioning or timing.

She can time a 4-hero Rez, but she's just as able to target a 2-hero Rez and do well enough to turn the tide.

Mercy is picked because the rest of the healers suck ass at healing as well as she does. If the enemy has a mercy, you best take a Mercy yourself or else you are at a disadvantage and will lose.

So Mercy just ends up being a boring, stale, and brainless character that has to be taken by someone who is willing to put their need to win over anything else.

If youre not prioritizing healing targets then youre not playing mercy right, and the fact that you didnt mention damage boost is telling. High level mercy's are conatantly switching between heal and damage boost and knowing when to do so isnt easy. Damage boosting at the right time can make or break a duel between a teammate and an enemy.

Also, you are hilariously underselling the importance of good rez usage. Rez is one of the most impactful ultimate in the game, which is both a blessing and a course. If youre playing against decent players, with decent ult management, you aren't going to get many opportunities to get a huge 5 man rez, and when you do, you are often bringing your team back into a disadvantagous state.

Example: enemy Reinhardt shatters your team they get wiped ---> 5 man rez----> enemy zarya gravs your team ---> wipe #2 ---> cry like the useless mercy you are.

Mercy is my most played hero and ive gotten to masters with her (with > 50% winrate) and I'm still not close to managing my rez. In a teamfight I have to consider when to rez and who to rez, which include who on my/the enemy team has their ult, and where theyre positioned. Also, while mercy's invulnerability is an overall buff, sometimes you have to choose between ulting to save yourself, or saving it for a better overall rez, which is a risk in and of itself.

Also, the fact that mercy's rez is so impactful makes her the highest priority target in most teamfights, which means genji, Eva, Winston, tracer, reaper, pharah, sombra (characters incidentally part of the most popular comp atm) are all hunting you down. At high elo, people dont forget to go for mercy. Being the highest priority target means that keeping yourself alive is more immediate and important of a skill for a mercy than a Lucio or a soldier. Most other characters, basically.
CryptiK
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:31 AM)
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Everyone hates Mercy because
1) Single target heal that can't rapidly swap
2) She fucking hides all the time and comes out and destroys all your work.
mollipen
(07-17-2017, 08:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by veloxStrix

The counter of the "a" is white and not transparent. If you flip to the night theme its more noticeable. That's all I changed. The color is probably a side-effect of my ps setup.

Wow, I feel hugely ashamed of never having noticed that, because that kind of thing drives me crazy. I will definitely fix that, so thanks for letting me know!


Originally Posted by Alucrid

i mean it's basically the exact opposite. for healers you should know where the enemy is, but what health your teammates are at. for dps you should know where you teammates are, but need to know the health of the enemy team.

Just to be clear, you're arguing with me here over what I personally find stressful.
The Maverick
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(07-17-2017, 08:40 AM)
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Mercy is a fundamentally broken character that became a blatantly obvious problem after the invincibility buff to rez, Lucio nerf, and Ana nerf. On console, she's literally the lowest skill hero with the most important ult in the game. It distorts the comp scene, not to mention the SR mechanics that seem to be calculated on pure rubbish.

This season of OW has been the worst in terms of toxicity and it feels like Blizzard is not at all phased by it.

Originally Posted by Toni Codrea

One of my best friends always plays Mercy because without her we never win. No one in our group knows how to play healer that well so she's greatly appreciated.

Well yeah, you guys are going to lose. You should learn how to flex multiple heroes to be decent at the game.
mrmyhthef
Member
(07-17-2017, 08:51 AM)
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All non-meta one tricks are going to face hate to some degree. Mercy mains bear the brunt of it because they are the most common in high level games due to busted SR gains inflating Mercy ranks (and that they aren't trying to tilt their team). Sometimes there are situations where 2 Mercy mains will be on your team and one of them will essentially be dead weight.

Also res charges too fast and isn't fun to play around or against.
The Maverick
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(07-17-2017, 08:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toni Codrea

We're not playing competitive anyways, and since she isn't really good with other heroes we all work great together.

Ah, OK. Just making sure you weren't one of those "competitive doesn't mean you can't have fun" people who don't get why they don't do well. Sorry. Lol.
The Last One
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(07-17-2017, 08:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by antitrop

It's pretty rampant at the moment. Most Mercy mains don't even talk in voice chat, because the abuse is so common. Resurrect needs communication to coordinate around, so you get Mercies pulling off random Rez's whenever they can (or even worse, dying without using it at all), because they're not talking to their team. It leads to a lot of frustration for everyone.

Mercy hate montage

The most popular player in Overwatch has a video on his YouTube channel named "I Hate Mercy So Much". And he's not joking.

The guy uninstalling the game looks so stupid in this video.
Last edited by The Last One; 07-17-2017 at 08:59 AM.

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