Originally Posted by LordKasual
Algebra is unintuitive when you refuse to learn the theorems. The inputs are only unintuitive because you have never tried to learn them.
Stop saying it's something wrong with the game. There's nothing wrong with the game.
It's literally just you.
Originally Posted by Aaronrules380
You can improve your aiming ability in the middle of an actual match without spending time in training mode, which is sufficient for casual level play. Learning how to combo in the middle of a match with another player is pretty much impossible. Improving your reliability, sure, but if you don't know a combo you're unlikely to just discover it in the middle of a match. Aiming well can be hard, but the fundementals of aiming are incredibly intuitive
I'm glad you guys bowed out because you were both literally repeating yourself. Definitely on Aaron's side here but to be honest, the thesis of my thread is a game like ARMS is pretty cool, definitely different than a traditional fighting game, and it'd be nice to have more things like it. Not sure why that encourages such vitriol but maybe I need less flame-baity titles.
Originally Posted by Anne
Funny and all, but I should say when I said "cheat code", I didn't literally mean the moves are cheats. Should've just said button combos or secret code or whatever.
Originally Posted by Rutger
Yes, it's different, it takes some effort to learn at first, but the controls in fighting games are not bad design. The goal in creating a fighting game character's moveset is to give them a large amount of options to work with, and without the special inputs that have lasted to this day, doing so while giving these characters the same amount of options they already have would either require a stupid amount of buttons or even more unintuitive methods.
The inputs used in fighting games are the simple way to let the character do everything that they can do.
And as for the time requirement in order to learn a character, that too is not bad design, because to many who play fighting games, that is part of the fun.
I guess my point is inputs being universal for each character while still being complex might be interesting. The fact there's so many button combos is an overwhelming memorization effort that ARMS or Nidhogg doesn't have. Maybe if you learned the inputs for Ryu and it applied to every other character but with different effects, that'd be cool.
Originally Posted by Leafhopper
I gave up to be honest. You have to learn regardless but, somehow that isn't getting through people's head.
My example here is ARMS, and my point is ARMS is different in a way that I like and seems to actually do "fundamentals" without being obscured by other stuff. I feel like that's not getting through to people because they're too on the defensive.
Originally Posted by FooTemps
Was gonna relegate myself to just lurking this thread but this is objectively not true.
You cannot jump characters in Smash and be "basically competent". The tech level in Melee would not allow you to survive in netplay, and the metagame would not let you survive even on For Glory.
C'mon, "surviving in netplay and For Glory" is beyond basically competent. That's for the most hardcore of players. Obviously that takes dedication to a character. But I can go to "regular" online and win with many characters, and that's cool. More things are in common between them, it's nice.
Originally Posted by nded
I wish Rising Thunder were still around so people can continue to ignore it and other games with alternative control schemes in favor of making threads about how specific established franchises like Street Fighter should get rid of specials.
Wasn't really the point of my thread. I offered a call to action: what other games do this?
Originally Posted by Professor Beef
bringing rpgs into a fighting game discussion
no wonder you don't understand fundamentals
Seriously, my thread really wasn't intended to get people so defensive. The guy you're replying to has humility. I literally called myself out as a Nintendo fanboy in the OP. I'm just saying more games like ARMS would be pretty cool and was trying to make the point they may actually help people grasp fundamentals in even games like Street Fighter better because people aren't distracted by button combos.
Button combos might have their place, fine. I'm just interested in more games like ARMS.
Originally Posted by Daouzin
That's pretty much what makes them great. Simple controls without sacrificing depth.
What people don't understand about wanting to simplify inputs for fighting games is that this usually limits options. Of course it doesn't have to. Changing a super from a character specific command to just right bumper (or R1) works well too. (See Tekken 7)
This is kind of my point. I'll have to try Tekken sometime. I have my doubts it'd be the same, but I like the intuitiveness of L/R Punch/Kick vs. Light/Medium/Heavy.
Originally Posted by Line_HTX
NO, they are NOT the master of fighting games without complex inputs.
Take the time to learn the system please.
This kind of post is baffling, providing no counter examples and then saying I should learn the complexities. So defensive.
Originally Posted by SargerusBR
Sounds like some people in this thread just wants a "PRESS A FOR AWESOME" button in fighting games.
Hi, there's these fun games with depth called ARMS, Nidhogg, Lethal League, etc. etc. I made a thread about it.
Originally Posted by *Splinter
To answer OP's questions from earlier in the thread:
a weak punch is fast striking motion with your fist, with very little build up and therefore no power. Also known as a "jab", it is meant more as a distraction or to put your opponent off balance.
a low kick is a striking motion with your foot, aimed at your opponents legs.
In the simple control scheme of Smash Bros, both of these are achieved by pressing left (or right) and A.
I hope this helps.
Thanks for an attempt at an honest explanation. My point is that in general, punch/kick don't seem to have universal properties making them kind of abstract. Which is why, yeah reducing it to one attack button is nice.