2. It's not a question the game wants to answer, because it's a story about growing up and moving on with life. Kafka's "The Metamorphosis" never explains why Samsa turned into a giant beetle, but the ending implies that his transformation and death allowed for his family to undergo their own transformation into more self-sufficient, happier people. Why a beetle? How did it occur? Doesn't matter, it's a storytelling and thematic hook to get you invested in the real meat of the story.
Just because the game isn't interested in it, doesn't mean I'm not. A clever set up and solution would have added to my enjoyment of the story. Building it up as a central pillar of the story and then just half-heartedly handwaving it away detracts from it.
The max that lived from the first day to the last day in the new timeline has no memory of the time travelling. After Nathan kills Chloe, our max returns to the present. Between then and the present, a Max with no memory of her powers exists until our Max takes over again. So those 5 to 7 days are exactly as they would be if Max never had powers.
No, the Max that lives out those days would be a fair bit different from non-powered Max. For starters would non-power Max even go to the bathroom, since there's no reason she would have the vision of the storm? And even if she did, "temp" Max would not have the memories of what she did while time-travel Max possessed her. She'd be sitting in class and then suddenly waking up in the bathroom with a dying girl she might not recognize as Chloe and a distraught Nathan. She'd have no idea whatsoever happened, as opposed to non-powered Max who would have seen and heard it happen and could provide accurate testimony to the cops.
Just because the game isn't interested in it, doesn't mean I'm not. A clever set up and solution would have added to my enjoyment of the story. Building it up as a central pillar of the story and then just half-heartedly handwaving it away detracts from it.
It doesn't detract from the story just like the lack of an explanation in "The Metamophosis" doesn't detract from its story. I'm sure it would have felt nice to get an explanation for all the time power shenanigans, but on the other hand it would have required scenes of set up and exposition to feel satisfying. I doubt an off the cuff "Oh the military was doing experiments over there and a stray bolt of phlebotinum hit Max!" would have cut it. At that point you're making the story longer and diluting the time spent with Chloe/friends/etc., or you're cutting out scenes to make room. Either way the end result is that the core story of Max and Chloe reconnecting, growing up, and moving on becomes morphed into something else.
It still might be a good story, but it isn't the one the creators wanted to tell. I don't believe a game should be faulted for not being the thing I wanted it to be, rather it should be judged on its own goals and merits.
No, the Max that lives out those days would be a fair bit different from non-powered Max. For starters would non-power Max even go to the bathroom, since there's no reason she would have the vision of the storm? And even if she did, "temp" Max would not have the memories of what she did while time-travel Max possessed her. She'd be sitting in class and then suddenly waking up in the bathroom with a dying girl she might not recognize as Chloe and a distraught Nathan. She'd have no idea whatsoever happened, as opposed to non-powered Max who would have seen and heard it happen and could provide accurate testimony to the cops.
OK, you got me there, she's the closest we have to powerless Max.
But Max possessed that max after taking the butterfly picture, so "temp" max would remember going to the bathroom... then black out and find Chloe dead. Most likely everybody (and Max) would think she saw her old best friend's murder and blocked it out because it was so traumatic.
Saving Kate was the best part of the game by far, I really disliked all the sci-fi butterfly effect stuff they threw in. In the game's defense they did a good job of keeping the story character focused while all this sci-fi shit was going on, but I definitely would've preferred a game where each episode was devoted to a character you're just trying to help out.
Great game, also played it because of PS+ (even though I had it on Steam). I was role playing Max for the most part, so I only saw Chloe as a friend. As for Warren it was clear that he way more into Max than she was, but otherwise he is an ok person.
I failed to save Kate even though I was really trying. Part of the role play I guess.
This really bugs me they expected everyone to choose that ending, the "first" ending is so annoying. It's like the makers are telling you not to play the game.
You're only in the bathroom at the beginning because of the tornado vision. If that didn't happen, you'd never have been there to see Chloe get shot. If they were so intent on you not saving Chloe, why even give you the tornado vision in the first place?
Then... Not only did you have the vision, but when you didn't save Chloe in the bathroom, they gave you magical time powers so you got another chance to save her. The universe worked so so hard to save Chloe there. Seems more reasonable to keep her alive. It also implies TWO opposing mystical forces. One side who wants Chloe dead, and one side that wants her alive. Whoever sent the tornado afterward obviously wants Chloe dead, and is willing to destroy a whole town as petty revenge. Chloe must be super important. I choose to align myself with the side who works through saving lives, rather than destroying people if they don't get their way.
So the way I see the bay is destroyed ending is that now Max is Chloe's protector, using her time powers (granted by the good side) to save Chloe until Chloe achieves her destiny that the evil side is trying to prevent.
I think they should've gotten rid of Chloe's mom to make the Chloe ending more viable. Killing her would change the story too much, so maybe just put her on a bus out of town or something. That way Chloe would be fine with either choice, since she doesn't really care about anyone else in Arcadia Bay.
Great game, also played it because of PS+ (even though I had it on Steam). I was role playing Max for the most part, so I only saw Chloe as a friend. As for Warren it was clear that he way more into Max than she was, but otherwise he is an ok person.
I failed to save Kate even though I was really trying. Part of the role play I guess.
I think they should've gotten rid of Chloe's mom to make the Chloe ending more viable. Killing her would change the story too much, so maybe just put her on a bus out of town or something. That way Chloe would be fine with either choice, since she doesn't really care about anyone else in Arcadia Bay.
yea I didn't really like how in the sacrifice Arcadia ending Chloe doesn't seem to have any problem with her mom dying off, even when she just said her mom doesn't deserve to die. That's really my whole problem with that ending, there's a lot of blood on Max and Chloe's hands now.
yea I didn't really like how in the sacrifice Arcadia ending Chloe doesn't seem to have any problem with her mom dying off, even when she just said her mom doesn't deserve to die. That's really my whole problem with that ending, there's a lot of blood on Max and Chloe's hands now.
I think they're suppose to be dead. The diner was pretty much demolished, and I think the intention of the devs was that everyone in the town is suppose to die.
I think they're suppose to be dead. The diner was pretty much demolished, and I think the intention of the devs was that everyone in the town is suppose to die.
the diner was still standing.
A lot of structures were. If the intention was for everyone to be dead they did a poor way of showing it. How would David and Jefferson have died?
the diner was still standing.
A lot of structures were. If the intention was for everyone to be dead they did a poor way of showing it. How would David and Jefferson have died?
Well maybe they survived, they were in a shelter after all. But the vast majority of the town was wiped out. When they are driving through the wreckage you don't see any signs of life except for the deer. In fact there's a dead body covered by a tarp, so while it's probably true that some people survived, it would only have been a handful.
Well maybe they survived, they were in a shelter after all. But the vast majority of the town was wiped out. When they are driving through the wreckage you don't see any signs of life except for the deer. In fact there's a dead body covered by a tarp, so while it's probably true that some people survived, it would only have been a handful.
if this disaster won't happen again in other parts of the world, it might be a good plot for a sequel but I think that would be too dark, even for LiS. So yes, I feel like the "good" ending is actually the bad ending.
if this disaster won't happen again in other parts of the world, it might be a good plot for a sequel but I think that would be too dark, even for LiS. So yes, I feel like the "good" ending is actually the bad ending.
We don't actually know if that's true. Remember that all we've got is the theorizing of a couple of teenagers. While their theories are decent enough, there's no guarantee that they are actually correct. Max is an unreliable narrator. Just because she says thing A will happen if she does action B, doesn't mean that it actually will unless the game specifically shows us.
We don't actually know if that's true. Remember that all we've got is the theorizing of a couple of teenagers. While their theories are decent enough, there's no guarantee that they are actually correct. Max is an unreliable narrator. Just because she says thing A will happen if she does action B, doesn't mean that it actually will unless the game specifically shows us.
With all due respect, I think you're looking too deep into it. I don't think the devs intended to make it a complicated choice with unpredictable outcomes, it's as simple as
either Chloe dies or Arcadia dies.
Maybe I'm wrong, but based on some interviews I've seen and the story told in the game, I really don't think its as complex as that.
1. Helping everyone should have played a bigger role in the Chloe ending
2. By picking the Bay, Max is basically not only resigning herself to let Chloe die but to let Kate die as well as Jefferson continue(regardless of how it actually turned out
as at the moment of choice she doesn't know that outcome.)
Last bit of the game nearly ruined one of my favorite games I have ever played.
With all due respect, I think you're looking too deep into it. I don't think the devs intended to make it a complicated choice with unpredictable outcomes, it's as simple as
either Chloe dies or Arcadia dies.
Maybe I'm wrong, but based on some interviews I've seen and the story told in the game, I really don't think its as complex as that.
No, I believe you're reading too much into it. Take a look at the final choices again. They don't say what you're claiming here. They are a choice for you to take about
who you are willing to sacrifice. It says so right in the choices: "Sacrifice Chloe" and "Sacrifice Arcadia Bay". Those are verbs that tell you what you do, not what will happen. The game doesn't tell us whether or not our choice, whichever one it was, actually had the effect you wanted. We see things being calm at the funeral in one of them, but that's about it.
Unreliable narrators is a very, very common thing in writing, and I have far more respect for the writers at Dontnod than to think they're unaware of it. Keeping things open for interpretation does, at a minimum, make it easier to create a sequel, and that's certainly something they've thought about.
1. Helping everyone should have played a bigger role in the Chloe ending
2. By picking the Bay, Max is basically not only resigning herself to let Chloe die but to let Kate die as well as Jefferson continue(regardless of how it actually turned out
as at the moment of choice she doesn't know that outcome.)
Last bit of the game nearly ruined one of my favorite games I have ever played.
Regarding your second point there, there's a line of dialogue at the very end which you might have missed:
Chloe: "And you'll make those fuckers pay for what they did to Rachel."
She says this just after you make the choice to sacrifice her, so it seems she at least expects you to deliberately go after Jefferson and Nathan. Of course, as was pointed out to me earlier in the thread, Max is probably not capable of doing such things for the first week after she returns, and once she does regain her senses, the case has already been closed for her.
Guys, I tried this game with my wife after playing through Until Dawn with her - basically we were looking for similar choice/story based games. We only made it part way through Episode 1 before quitting.
Should I give it another chance on my own?
I was a little bored, perhaps partly because I just came from Until Dawn (which was amazing) and I dunno, I feel like I should maybe give it another go but does it pick up at all?
Guys, I tried this game with my wife after playing through Until Dawn with her - basically we were looking for similar choice/story based games. We only made it part way through Episode 1 before quitting.
Should I give it another chance on my own?
I was a little bored, perhaps partly because I just came from Until Dawn (which was amazing) and I dunno, I feel like I should maybe give it another go but does it pick up at all?
Man, looking back it's kinda bullshit that didn't explain any of the supernatural stuff. Not even an hint, it's straight up 100% unexplained. The game doesn't even give you enough material to theorize about it.
Regarding your second point there, there's a line of dialogue at the very end which you might have missed:
Chloe: "And you'll make those fuckers pay for what they did to Rachel."
She says this just after you make the choice to sacrifice her, so it seems she at least expects you to deliberately go after Jefferson and Nathan. Of course, as was pointed out to me earlier in the thread, Max is probably not capable of doing such things for the first week after she returns, and once she does regain her senses, the case has already been closed for her.
that would have counted as potentially using the power to save another future life from Jefferson which defeats the entire point of picking the Bay imo
Max would have the mindset that she would have to act 100% normal, can't go after Jefferson because it's related to time travel, can't help Kate, can't become friendly with the others, etc
Man, looking back it's kinda bullshit that didn't explain any of the supernatural stuff. Not even an hint, it's straight up 100% unexplained. The game doesn't even give you enough material to theorize about it.
I sometimes get tired of yelling about it (not this day!) but if you're talking about the best character-based adventure game involving Pacific Northwest teenagers and paranormal events and time looping, it ain't Life is Strange.
I enjoyed Life is Strange for what it is, but the dialogue hella bothered me in that usual "this is what people think teens sound like" way, and I'm not sure its thematic core jived with the ultimate choices the player was allowed to make.
I had this game in my backlog for months and finally got around to it recently. Amazing stuff, the only real issue is that some of the dialogue early on is a bit dumb, but it seemed to get better over time.
I don't really get why people need an explanation for the powers since that's not the real point of the story and a long explanation would only detract from it IMO.
Holy crap, I never noticed... Very cool detail! Did you find that one yourself, Jo?
@OP: I bought LiS sometime last year when I was off work for a couple of weeks due to a broken leg and some other injuries. Played through the game in two sessions with just a couple of hours of sleep in between.
This happens rarely to me and usually only when reading a great book, not when playing games.
The gals and guys at Dontnod have done an awesome job with that game. Personally, I loved everything about it (visuals, audio, story, characters, pacing...), with the one exception being
the stealth section
.
I'm really looking forward to more games from them. If they continue down this road, Dontnod could become some of my favourite interactive storytellers of all time.
Guys, I tried this game with my wife after playing through Until Dawn with her - basically we were looking for similar choice/story based games. We only made it part way through Episode 1 before quitting.
Should I give it another chance on my own?
I was a little bored, perhaps partly because I just came from Until Dawn (which was amazing) and I dunno, I feel like I should maybe give it another go but does it pick up at all?
I wouldn't say I had enough time to dislike anything really. Was just a bit bored but as I say in my original post, it might have been coming from quite a tense, edge of your seat game like Until Dawn straight into this.
I sometimes get tired of yelling about it (not this day!) but if you're talking about the best character-based adventure game involving Pacific Northwest teenagers and paranormal events and time looping, it ain't Life is Strange.
I enjoyed Life is Strange for what it is, but the dialogue hella bothered me in that usual "this is what people think teens sound like" way, and I'm not sure its thematic core jived with the ultimate choices the player was allowed to make.
Hmm... nah. Oxenfree is a cool game but the pace of the gameplay really killed it for me.
The walking, the retreading, the A-to-B of it. Even just the walking was a painstaking experience. They designed this great island and these great characters and a great conversation system then forced you to experience it all through really dull, difficult gameplay. Like you were waist high in sludge the entire time. If movement was faster and environments larger, or if there was slightly more "platforming" or environmental puzzles, it would have been a far greater game.
Still a good game and I'm glad it exists.
Life is Strange has far more compelling gameplay and mechanics, which complement the narrative by never overstaying their welcome or fucking up the pacing.
Re dialogue, LiS does often miss the mark, but it also hits a great stride from eps 2-4. Besides, it was by a French team - i think that really shows in the first episode especially. They didn't quite know (or didn't have the budget) to QC the script and VA to peak standard.
Guys, I tried this game with my wife after playing through Until Dawn with her - basically we were looking for similar choice/story based games. We only made it part way through Episode 1 before quitting.
Should I give it another chance on my own?
I was a little bored, perhaps partly because I just came from Until Dawn (which was amazing) and I dunno, I feel like I should maybe give it another go but does it pick up at all?
I've played through the entire game with my girlfriend and I think it's 10x better playing through it with someone next to you.
The storytelling is fantastic (up until near the end, at least) and it approaches some really interesting themes with a depth that hasn't been experienced in games yet.
Man, looking back it's kinda bullshit that didn't explain any of the supernatural stuff. Not even an hint, it's straight up 100% unexplained. The game doesn't even give you enough material to theorize about it.
The only thing I don't really understand about Max's time powers is the first time she accidentally uses it.
When Chloe is shot in the begging of the game, Max not only goes back in time but somehow physically manifests back in the classroom. That is not how her power work at all afterwards, anytime she uses her power after that event she stands on the same spot as when she starts using her rewind powers.
Kinda makes me think she was somehow intentionally given the powers and intentionally moved back in the classroom and not simply had her powers "wake up". Would also explain why she had her storm vision before meeting Chloe? I dunno.
Life is Strange is my favorite point & click game yet. I am playing Oxenfree currently and it is lovely too, but I doubt I will like it more than Life is Strange by the time I finish it.
Max and Chloe are some of the most likable leads ever.
The only thing I don't really understand about Max's time powers is the first time she accidentally uses it.
When Chloe is shot in the begging of the game, Max not only goes back in time but somehow physically manifests back in the classroom. That is not how her power work at all afterwards, anytime she uses her power after that event she stands on the same spot as when she starts using her rewind powers.
Kinda makes me think she was somehow intentionally given the powers and intentionally moved back in the classroom and not simply had her powers "wake up". Would also explain why she had her storm vision before meeting Chloe? I dunno.
The only thing I don't really understand about Max's time powers is the first time she accidentally uses it.
When Chloe is shot in the begging of the game, Max not only goes back in time but somehow physically manifests back in the classroom. That is not how her power work at all afterwards, anytime she uses her power after that event she stands on the same spot as when she starts using her rewind powers.
Kinda makes me think she was somehow intentionally given the powers and intentionally moved back in the classroom and not simply had her powers "wake up". Would also explain why she had her storm vision before meeting Chloe? I dunno.
Very interesting point, but I'm pretty sure the implication is that she just accidentally flicks further back in time to the classroom. Not like she's good at controlling it. Would need to play again anyway.
Very interesting point, but I'm pretty sure the implication is that she just accidentally flicks further back in time to the classroom. Not like she's good at controlling it. Would need to play again anyway.
But that isn't how her powers work. It doesn't matter for how long she rewinds, she still stays on the same spot when using her powers. The only time she physically manifests somewhere else is when she uses the photos she's taken or is in to go back in time to "replace" herself when that photo was taken.
Very interesting point, but I'm pretty sure the implication is that she just accidentally flicks further back in time to the classroom. Not like she's good at controlling it. Would need to play again anyway.
