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(Steam) Publishers to crack down on cross-region gifting/trading


Which part of this is shameful? It's already illegal to do it, now they're just enforcing that. It's not their fault you're upset about no longer being able to break the law and/or agree to the terms that you already agreed to.

If anything, the "shameful" part of it is how many people exploited this obvious flaw in the system.
 

Dario ff

Banned
I don't know, I haven't got a clue as to the rules and regulations of international commerce. What I do know is that a lot of people from "first-world" countries are exploiting the gifting and trading system to buy games at prices intended for poor countries.
This would make sense if it wasn't that the price in Latin America for this particular game is the same as the US. What's the point of restricting me from gifting to the rest of the world in that case? If I'm gonna be restricted I want a cheaper deal at least! :p

Then again this is Konami I guess.
 

X05

Upside, inside out he's livin la vida loca, He'll push and pull you down, livin la vida loca
This is absolute horseshit, even more so because Brazil is the only country in the region to sometimes get cheaper games, everyone else has USA or EU level price

EA has region free purchases on Origin actually.
Don't think so, it insists that I'm in Spain (which is wrong) and last time I tried to buy something it failed due to address not being in Spain.
 

Spaghetti

Member
pretty fucked up, i wonder how this'll affect those steam key retailers

i've bought a few games i wanted to try but would not pay full price for through key retailers at a discount

theoretically this could push more people to piracy
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
As I edited into my previous post, those in affected countries can't gift to people outside of these territories as they simply don't show up in the list, and I would assume that attempting to initiate a trade would result in an error... but what about sending the gift via e-mail? I wonder, since Steam obviously can't ascertain the region of an e-mail inbox, would redeeming the e-mailed gift work, perhaps if using a VPN (if need be)? I'm tempted to experiment but I don't want to be left with the digital equivalent of an $11/$12 paperweight.
 

Giran

Member
It's not community though, it's blatant abuse of the regional pricing system. Some countries have cheaper prices because gamers in those countries can't pay the normal price. Selling a cheap Russian copy to a US buyer means that you're cheating the publisher. It's just wrong and it could lead to publishers enforcing the same prices for everyone, which would seriously screw over gamers in poor countries.

Durante already addressed your point in a concise manner but do you really think it's "wrong" for someone from Romania or Poland to want digital products at the same price as someone from the US gets it, and not for 20-26% higher prices, despite the average monthly wage in the US being more than three times as much as that of those two countries? If they set up a blatantly discriminative system like this, then I hardly find it wrong to expect it to go both ways.
 
This is the worst thing that can happen. I'm assuming Amazon.com keys will NOT work in Europe, as has been the case for Saints Row 4 and other Deep Silver keys and some Namco Bandai keys as well.

It's fucking horseshit that publishers keep pushing such high prices in Europe compared to the US. One dollar does not equal a euro, but it does on Steam. Consoles are even worse where $60 games are 70€.
 

Kaleinc

Banned
EA has region free purchases on Origin actually.
I meant a global picture.

Which part of this is shameful? It's already illegal to do it, now they're just enforcing that. It's not their fault you're upset about no longer being able to break the law and/or agree to the terms that you already agreed to.

If anything, the "shameful" part of it is how many people exploited this obvious flaw in the system.
What's illegal if some russian chap wants to gift me a game? Not trade, not sell.
 
Durante already addressed your point in a concise manner but do you really think it's "wrong" for someone from Romania or Poland to want digital products at the same price as someone from the US gets it, and not for 20-26% higher prices, despite the average monthly wage in the US being more than three times as much as that of those two countries? If they set up a blatantly discriminative system like this, then I hardly find it wrong to expect it to go both ways.

No, I think it's bullshit and I wouldn't object to a person from Romania and Poland buying the game from the US store. If I understand correctly though, the two regions being singled out are Latin America and Eastern Europe so your example doesn't apply.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
This is the worst thing that can happen. I'm assuming Amazon.com keys will NOT work in Europe, as has been the case for Saints Row 4 and other Deep Silver keys and some Namco Bandai keys as well.

It's fucking horseshit that publishers keep pushing such high prices in Europe compared to the US. One dollar does not equal a euro, but it does on Steam. Consoles are even worse where $60 games are 70€.

There's only one key sub in the registry and it's completely region-free.
 
I meant a global picture.


What's illegal if some russian chap wants to gift me a game? Not trade, not sell.

Tell yourself whatever you need to in order to make yourself feel better. The prices of games purchased on the russian store are for people who buy and play the game in Russia. It's that simple. You're welcome to kid yourself into believe you're doing nothing wrong, but the facts will disagree with you.
 

Freezard

Member
As I edited into my previous post, those in affected countries can't gift to people outside of these territories as they simply don't show up in the list, and I would assume that attempting to an initiate a trade would result in an error... but what about sending the gift via e-mail? I wonder, since Steam obviously can't ascertain the region of an e-mail inbox, would redeeming the e-mailed gift work, perhaps if using a VPN (if need be)? I'm tempted to experiment but I don't want to be left with the digital equivalent of an $11/$12 paperweight.

That's what I was saying. It should be possible to gift by e-mail. I can try it with a cheap game if there is a list of games with the new flag.
 

Zafir

Member
No, I think it's bullshit and I wouldn't object to a person from Romania and Poland buying the game from the US store. If I understand correctly though, the two regions being singled out are Latin America and Eastern Europe so your example doesn't apply.

Romania IS in Eastern Europe?

I assume Poland will be under the same bracket though honestly.

Punishes people who genuinely just want to give a gift to a friend who may not currently reside in the same area, which is really sucky.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
That's what I was saying. It should be possible to gift by e-mail. I can try it with a cheap game if there is a list of games with the new flag.

http://steamdb.info/sub/25318/ ("Pieterw Store Sub Test!")
http://steamdb.info/sub/35516/ (Sonar X3 Studio)
http://steamdb.info/sub/36077/ (MGS:R)
http://steamdb.info/sub/36437/ (Sonar X3 Producer Upgrade)
http://steamdb.info/sub/36438/ (Sonar X3 Studio Upgrade)

Nothing cheap, though -- Rising is the least expensive of the lot.
 
Romania IS in Eastern Europe?

I assume Poland will be under the same bracket though honestly.

Punishes people who genuinely just want to give a gift to a friend who may not currently reside in the same area, which is really sucky.

I agree, but this is yet another example of the internet taking a good thing and twisting it until it's bad. People abused the system by selling games from cheap regions to other people from non-cheap regions. It's a common practice, look at the Steam sale thread. The same thing was going to happen with Steam sharing, people everywhere were dreaming of buying one copy and sharing it with ten people. That's abuse.
 
Doubtful Steam is doing this voluntarily - it's a liability they can't afford to shirk further.

I'm unaffected but I sympathize with the disapproval.
 

Chronoja

Member
The one thing that worries me about this is the amount of games these days being region restricted for no real good reason. Games like Saw coming back to steam but being only available in the U.S. for example requiring people to trade to get it anywhere else. I can understand them wanting to do this from a money conversion standpoint but from any other point of view it's incredibly anti consumer.
 

Dizzy-4U

Member
Tweak your address then.

People buy games from Origin, Mexico, etc all the time.

It's not an address thing, it's an ISP thing. Latin America apparently belongs to Europe, so they charge you in Euros no matter what you have in your details.

I haven't used a VPN but that might work.
 

kudoboi

Member
Odd... my Steam says it's region restricted.

he meant CD key not direct purchase from steam.

but once this game gets onto greenmangaming i will cancel my amazon pre order. i cannot take the risk of the key being region locked. at least if i get it on GMG i might get a refund

i got burned once by amazon already. I bought a steam game from them only to realize its region locked and amazon did not want to give me a refund because they already gave me a key and that i was bypassing their USA only restriction
 

Giran

Member
No, I think it's bullshit and I wouldn't object to a person from Romania and Poland buying the game from the US store. If I understand correctly though, the two regions being singled out are Latin America and Eastern Europe so your example doesn't apply.

Those countries are in Eastern Europe. At least in terms of geography. Not sure if they fall into the restriction here. Either way, it's the same principle. They buy the exact same product, through the exact same service, for way lower price. Video game is a luxury, not a necessity. There are no digital oceans, and if they don't play fair then it's understandable that people don't sit there with a smile on their face as they're being fleeced.
 
this is pretty dumb. i hope publishers realize people have been using steam because the prices are reasonable, not just because it's convenient. jack up the prices, and your sales will go down the drain as people go back to pirating

edit: if (big if here, probably not happening but) if they're doing this to sell games cheaper in latin america and eastern europe to fight piracy and also due to lower incomes in those countries, then it's ok
 
this is pretty dumb. i hope publishers realize people have been using steam because the prices are reasonable, not just because it's convenient. jack up the prices, and your sales will go down the drain as people go back to pirating

Steam is actually really shitty in Europe and Australia where prices are like +35% the American price. Even VAT doesn't explain the huge difference. Even weirder is the UK getting mostly the same prices as US despite having a VAT.

It's why I use Amazon and Green Man Gaming to get games with a USD price. If this option is taken away, I'm just not gonna buy their game.
 

Nzyme32

Member
This has actually made me viscerally furious.

"oh its Christmas, lets use some of my OWN money to make my friends happy"

"NO FUCK YOU STEALING CUNT"

ggggrrrrrrrr

Edit: gifting is one of my favourite features...... Was one of my favourite features
 

Cynar

Member
Which part of this is shameful? It's already illegal to do it, now they're just enforcing that. It's not their fault you're upset about no longer being able to break the law and/or agree to the terms that you already agreed to.

If anything, the "shameful" part of it is how many people exploited this obvious flaw in the system.

Gifting games across regions is illegal? Don't tell Santa!
 
this is pretty dumb. i hope publishers realize people have been using steam because the prices are reasonable, not just because it's convenient. jack up the prices, and your sales will go down the drain as people go back to pirating

edit: if (big if here, probably not happening but) if they're doing this to sell games cheaper in latin america and eastern europe to fight piracy and also due to lower incomes in those countries, then it's ok
The already were selling games cheaper in some eastern European countries. People in those countries were reselling back to other countries.
 

Zafir

Member
I agree, but this is yet another example of the internet taking a good thing and twisting it until it's bad. People abused the system by selling games from cheap regions to other people from non-cheap regions. It's a common practice, look at the Steam sale thread. The same thing was going to happen with Steam sharing, people everywhere were dreaming of buying one copy and sharing it with ten people. That's abuse.
Maybe so, but then you fall into the issues publishers faced from adding intrusive DRM. You're punishing your average consumer trying to stop people who will find a way around it regardless. Be it now using keys instead with a VPN, or even just not paying at all and pirating it.

Instead they should be offering rewards or incentives for those paying more. Equivalent to what CD Project did trying to combat piracy, they offered neat little goodies with Witcher 2(Soundtrack, tips book, map, etc), and also did a CE which offered a lot of neat collectors item for a very good price. It was still pirated, but those are people who were never going to pay in the first place. What they got in return was a lot of happy customers who will be happy to pay for the next release.

Something like just offering the base game for cheap in Brazil/Eastern Europe, and then having a more expensive version(which could still be bought in Brazil/EE if they so wished) which everyone else gets, that contains small goodies. PDF of artwork/maps, soundtracks and so on.
 
Which part of this is shameful? It's already illegal to do it, now they're just enforcing that. It's not their fault you're upset about no longer being able to break the law and/or agree to the terms that you already agreed to.

If anything, the "shameful" part of it is how many people exploited this obvious flaw in the system.

There is nothing illegal being done. You are buying a legal copy of a game for a price given. Some game publishers want to enforce regional pricing so they can force Europeans and Australians to pay higher prices than Americans, which is bullshit. But these enforcements are not written in law.

If a publisher has problems selling a game at a certain price, they should not be selling at that price - anywhere. Budget your expenses accordingly and sell at the same price for everyone. It's the internet, we're global now. Companies can use labor in any country as well.
 
Reposting from the other thread as an example.

CbGsdhY.png


I don't get it, the price is the same as the US version and this warning does not appear in that version of the store. It's not like I'm getting a discount on it to justify this, unlike the Russians. What do they win from restricting me to gift this game to people in the US if the price is the same?

THIS IS SOME FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!

I have tons of friends in some of those countries and we buy each other gifts for birthdays and stuff :(.

Fuck everything about this.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
It's not community though, it's blatant abuse of the regional pricing system. Some countries have cheaper prices because gamers in those countries can't pay the normal price. Selling a cheap Russian copy to a US buyer means that you're cheating the publisher. It's just wrong and it could lead to publishers enforcing the same prices for everyone, which would seriously screw over gamers in poor countries.
And what about countries that have the same price? Is that abuse too?
 
This is so sad, some of my friends in the south dont have access AT ALL to some games because pubs hate money.

Case in point, I had to buy 4 of my friends copies of Dark Souls so that we could play together. Now they will fuck all of it up with this new flag and lose money in the process, good job.
 

Giran

Member
As far as I can tell, yes. It wouldn't make sense to broaden the net since games aren't typically cheaper in other countries.

They are, but not as drastically as those two regions. A 20%-30% increase in price compared to the US one for those in the UK/EU1/EU2 regions is very common thanks to the 1:1 currency conversion that many releases use.
 

besada

Banned
But these enforcements are not written in law.

They are written in law -- contract law. Publishers have the right to price their work as they see fit, and distribute it as they see fit. If they signed a contract with Steam mandating region-specific prices, and Steam ignores that, then Steam is in breach of contract. You aren't breaking the law buying it, but Steam is violating the terms of their contract, which is why they're tightening up enforcement, because publishers absolutely have the right to price their product however they see fit.

If Steam has told you that region-trading is a violation of their ToS, then you're simply in violation of their ToS if you do it, so all they can really do is cancel your Steam account.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
Tell yourself whatever you need to in order to make yourself feel better. The prices of games purchased on the russian store are for people who buy and play the game in Russia. It's that simple. You're welcome to kid yourself into believe you're doing nothing wrong, but the facts will disagree with you.
In a free market I'm doing nothing wrong. As Durante said before: if devs can buy stuff and hire people from wherever they want, why can't I buy the game from wherever I want?
 
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