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Valve engineer confirms Linux-based Steambox for 2013, could appear at GDC or E3

zoku88

Member
Hasn't it got better since this:

You know, Linus wasn't talking about the performance of the driver when he said that.

He was specifically talking about Nvidia "taking advantage" of all of the work put into Linux for use in their Tegra platform, but not really contributing back. (A lot of companies that use Linux heavily also contribute to Linux heavily.)

Also, he was saying that in response to a question about Optimus support.
 

BrettHD

Banned
That cherry picking...cmon those are probably the most popular games of all time. Pick some more recent games that haven't been around for decades.

The original question was what pc games compare in terms of success to Mario/Zelda/Pokemon.
Two of these franchises have been around for decades.
Pokemon has been around since 1996.
Why shouldnt he respond with franchises that have been on pc for decades ?
 

Conor 419

Banned
Zelda doesn't belong in that company anymore, it doesn't sell anywhere near enough.

Twilight Princess is on track to be the best selling in the series. As SS is the fastest ever selling Zelda title, it's fair to assume even it will eventually surpass Twilight Princess.

Zelda's no Mario or Pokémon, I agree, but there are very very few IP's that could go toe to toe with those two.
 
Seems like a useless idea. PC gamers won't care to get a locked box when they can upgrade and consoles gamers already have trust on the other companies. Also it's not like valve will not put their games on those consoles.
 
why would developers have to adhere to a target for their PC games. I thought the whole point of PC games was to reach as many people as possible by offering a variety of options so high end get what they want and middle end get to play too, and low end as well in some cases.

In the past the PC market has made informal standards before, despite the wide variety of possible options. Look at the recent adoption of the Xbox 360 controller as the accessory to have for PC games. You can barely sneeze on Steam and not find a game that doesn't support it. Valve's looking to make waves; they did it before and they want to do it again. Bigger waves this time, I'll grant you.

And you're also making the big assumption that this gains traction, when all I'm saying is I have no idea why it ever would because I have no idea why anyone would ever buy this. That's what I'm not getting. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see why a consumer would purchase this. Offers less than the console competitors, so most gamers won't buy it. Can't be used as a PC as well, so those looking for a computer won't buy it. Seems like a lot of investment to make to attract an incredible niche. Product of too much time and money on your hands maybe, and Valve wants to experiment.

So now you're asking what this offers the consumer? That's a different question that we'll be able to answer when the thing is announced.

But haven't you seen popular graphics cards before? People like to buy things with the knowledge that there's leverage behind it. They like to make sure their platform isn't forgotten like it can be in the PC realm when new consoles come out. Popular graphics cards get supported for years and get legacy support that other cards don't. Why can't we do that for an entire box?

You're saying what it COULD POSSIBLY DO MAYBE HOPEFULLY PLZ. I'm saying realistically, it wont do any of that :p

You asked why it existed. I gave you an answer. It's better than automatically assuming that Valve has no clue what they doing.

Also, could you quote where I said "COULD POSSIBLY DO MAYBE HOPEFULLY PLZ" because I tend to spell the word "please" correctly.
 

Zaventem

Member
Seems like a useless idea. PC gamers won't care to get a locked box when they can upgrade and consoles gamers already have trust on the other companies. Also it's not like valve will not put their games on those consoles.

Hey maybe they're going after the poorer markets, with the way steam puts things on sale.That's my only logical explanation.I mean i see no reason i would buy this...
 
A Linux steam box seems like something only hardcore Valve fanboys would buy day 1.



After a year or two the library should be decent if Valve are aggressive enough though. I wonder if Valve can get 3rd party support. Steam just seemed to get it because it was by far the biggest game in town. Trying to get Linux support from the likes of Activision and Ubi might need some money hatting.
 

Sentenza

Member
why would developers have to adhere to a target for their PC games. I thought the whole point of PC games was to reach as many people as possible by offering a variety of options so high end get what they want and middle end get to play too, and low end as well in some cases.
Because a comfortable standard entry level to use as a baseline is pretty much the most needed thing in the PC market today, I would guess.

And you're also making the big assumption that this gains traction, when all I'm saying is I have no idea why it ever would because I have no idea why anyone would ever buy this.
Well, here's the interesting thing: even if this is going to be a total failure, it's going to be a pretty safe purchase any way (being essentially a PC, which will have a huge library regardless of its popularity as console).
Incidentally, when a purchase feels "safe", that makes for it even more easy to actually become successful.

That's what I'm not getting. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see why a consumer would purchase this.
I still don't get why customers purchase consoles at all, to be honest, but I made peace with reality and realized that some people like gimped, closed hardware.
This is not going to be anything different, beside being LESS closed than the average console.

Offers less than the console competitors, so most gamers won't buy it.
Says who? You may end being right, but so far you are making baseless assumptions.
You have no clue of which developers already agreed to produce software for this thing.
it could be no one, but it could also be every single one that matters, for what you know.

I also suspect this story has a strong correlation with Valve contacting japanese developers few months ago.

Can't be used as a PC as well, so those looking for a computer won't buy it.
Once again, says who? That's the exact opposite of what rumors suggested so far.
Just because it COMES with Linux, doesn't mean it can't run Windows.
 

goomba

Banned
Wtf is with all the Linux hate in here ? Other than backwards compatibility, what does windows offer?

Games don't need windows, infact without windows ,games will have more resources to themselves.

Moving forward A gaming optimised open source Linux OS could mean steambox could become what the Xbox was originally supposed to become (multiple hardware vendors running the same OS).
 

zoku88

Member
Well when you look at driver support on windows, they are releasing them every few months. AAA game A has a issue with a driver, they then release a beta to fix said problem and increase performance. I don't see that happening with Linux. You might have a driver that makes your game run like shit, and your stuck with it for months.

If you're including beta drivers, Nvidia releases beta drivers in Linux almost at the same cadence as the ones they release for Windows...

Since July, 11 releases for Windows, 13 for Linux, according to the results I got from the advanced driver search page from Nvidia.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Seems like a useless idea. PC gamers won't care to get a locked box when they can upgrade and consoles gamers already have trust on the other companies. Also it's not like valve will not put their games on those consoles.

Windows gaming is not going to dissapear. Steambox can finaly bring PC gaming to the people who dont want to mess with the complicated windows, drivers, configuration, fixes, hit or miss controller support... A lot of people would like to enter world of PC gaming, but they dont want to bother with the problems.

Big draw for steambox could be:
- better optimization of current PC games via less bloated and more streamlined drivers
- exclusive games [source 2.0]
- exclusive perhipherals [motion, vr]
- exclusive Steam services
- ease of use
 

Sentenza

Member
Are they going to pay AMD and nVidia to make half decent Linux drivers? They both have a hard enough time with Windows drivers, and last I heard both were incredibly far behind the curve in Linux support.

I don't see it happening with what's going to be a niche product.
They are going to do far more than that. They are going to push sales for Nvidia/AMD hardware.
That's why those manufacturers should have every interest in this collaboration.
 

Withnail

Member
What's the obsession with back catalogue? The critical thing is whether publishers support it going forward.

I'll definitely consider getting one of these instead of a next gen PS/xbox.
 

DarkFlow

Banned
If you're including beta drivers, Nvidia releases beta drivers in Linux almost at the same cadence as the ones they release for Windows...

Since July, 11 releases for Windows, 13 for Linux.
Well if that's the case, then retract my previous statements.
I was just going off my times installing Ubuntu, it was like pulling teeth finding video drivers.
 

scitek

Member
I don't want 80% of my Steam games not avaliable on a SteamBox. Dosn't make sense...

You won't have to buy a Steambox if you have a PC already. It's not like they're going to put games exclusively on it. They'll probably even release whatever controller and other hardware they've come up with it separately and make it compatible with Windows because Valve's against walling off anything like the consoles traditionally do.
 
considering how shitty steam is, how poorly designed the ui is, and how unfriendly the platform is, I don't think I'm expecting much from a steam box. Nor do I think valve can compete with sony and microsoft on the exclusives front, not sure how they'll manage to handle marketing and purchasing of exclusive content.
 

zoku88

Member
Well if that's the case, then retract my previous statements.
I was just going off my times installing Ubuntu, it was like pulling teeth finding video drivers.

That's an Ubuntu problem. They tend to not update video drivers fast in their repos.

Which could be a good or bad thing depending on how much you trust Nvidia/AMD to make good drivers.
 

Krowley

Member
Also, it just occurred to me, you can't discount the possibility that this thing has some kind of peripheral that is exclusive to it. Something that would make people want to use it for gaming instead of their PC, and compel companies to port older games to it. Something equivalent to the wiimote or kinect in terms of its potential to attract gamers.

I'm not sure what this would be, (VR maybe) but if it was cool enough it could make a difference. It could make this an ideal gaming platform for certain kinds of games, so that even though steam games would be available on other platforms, the experience of using the steambox to play would be unique and possibly more desirable.
 
Windows gaming is not going to dissapear. Steambox can finaly bring PC gaming to the people who dont want to mess with the complicated windows, drivers, configuration, fixes, hit or miss controller support... A lot of people would like to enter world of PC gaming, but they dont want to bother with the problems.

Big draw for steambox could be:
- better optimization of current PC games via less bloated and more streamlined drivers
- exclusive games [source 2.0]
- exclusive perhipherals [motion, vr]
- exclusive Steam services
- ease of use

They aren't going to have exclusives and lock pc gamers out lol. I think you are right about it being for people who don't want to build a pc and stuff though.
 

Game Guru

Member
So which PC exclusive IP's are on par with Mario, Zelda and Pokémon in terms of critical acclaim and commercial success?

Sony and Microsoft seem to get along just fine without Nintendo IPs, and if we are talking about Steam-exclusive PC games... Half-Life 2 sold 12 million which means it sold better than either Halo or Gran Turismo, the best selling exclusive games for both the 360 and PS3. If it launched with Half-Life 3 and Source Engine 2, it could have a lot of sales.

Besides, how well is Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon doing for the 3DS and Wii U? How well did those franchises do during the GameCube's lifespan?

I will say this, though. Should the Steambox fail, then Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony will be the last console makers. There's no profit in making consoles over making a digital storefront for PCs, Smartphones, and Tablets. Valve, Google, Amazon, and Apple already work on a console model, getting 30% from anything sold by them on their digital stores. All the Steambox is doing is following what Google and Amazon has since done... Make hardware associated with their store. Hardware like the Nexus line and the Kindle Fire are based on Android essentially, but are used to promote Google Play and Amazon Appstore. However, many other devices not made by Google or Amazon can access those stores. Do you think this won't be the same for a Steambox running Linux? The only difference is that the hardware Valve plans to make are based on consoles rather than smartphones or tablets.
 

Blizzard

Banned
This is a fun day of news for Linux, since I also just discovered that the person who was working on Linux XBox controller and chatpad drivers also seems to have gotten the chatpad working with the wireless controller. I don't know how open the Steambox would be, but I really hope it has options for power users to mod stuff, which might mean they could use a 360 controller and chatpad with those custom drivers, for instance.
 

Datschge

Member
Some hilarious responses as usual. The hardware would be DOA with Windows, not without it. A Windows license (and all its hardware requirement) would easily double the hardware's manufacturing cost.

And Wine can already be used at least for porting DirectX 9 to OpenGL. But of course Valve can bring a lot of improvements, Open Source is all about itches being scratched, and more people wanting to play games in an Open Source environment will ensure more of those itches being scratched than in the past.

In the end the choice of Linux is little more than a practical one: It's simply the Open Source/licensing free system with the most widespread support in the hardware industry (Linux via server, Android phones and CPU/GPU manufacturers). For consumers the decision for Linux will be as meaningful as Apple's decision to use an Open Source Mach kernel in a BSD environment as the underlying system for Mac OS X (i.e. barely anyone knows or cares).
 

DieH@rd

Banned
They aren't going to have exclusives and lock pc gamers out lol. I think you are right about it being for people who don't want to build a pc and stuff though.

But they could say... "install free version of ubuntu and put steam on your windows and you can easily gain access to exclusive Steambox games". Or maybe not games, maybe for exclusive peripherals.


Half Life 2 was exclusive of Steam, and lot of people bitched about it. But in the end, that move brought millions of people to Steam and Valve will possibly want to do the same again.
 
But they could say... "install free version of ubuntu and put steam on your windows and you can easily gain access to exclusive Steambox games". Or maybe not games, maybe for exclusive peripherals.


Half Life 2 was exclusive of Steam, and lot of people bitched about it. But in the end, that move brought millions of people to Steam and Valve will possibly want to do the same again.

I bought half life 2 at a store, not on steam, and iirc there was an ea logo on the box. I just don't see valve being a big enough publisher to push their own hardware. The system will be an open pandora.
 
A lot of core gamers will want this. Valve pulls huge love from a lot of gamers out there, and a lot of console players hate the complexities of a computer.

See the missed the keyhole 2012 would have been the perfect year if you ask me.
Now with Next gen consoles coming i cant imaging console players having a reason to jump to steam box given that multiplat titles will mostly be Next Xbox,Ps 4 and PC with the occasional dev willing to support steambox. Next Xbox and PC will use the same api(DirectX) i reckon and with PS4 sony will use their own API(probably based on OpenGL standard) or just go to the metal.

But hey i wish them luck linux can use better and faster driver support if you ask always i have problems on my hardware. Its mostly because i buy top end when im replacing laptop or Desktop where sometimes even windows has problems with drivers kinda like AMD enduro problems last year.
 

Conor 419

Banned
Sony and Microsoft seem to get along just fine without Nintendo IPs, and if we are talking about Steam-exclusive PC games... Half-Life 2 sold 12 million which means it sold better than either Halo or Gran Turismo, the best selling exclusive games for both the 360 and PS3. If it launched with Half-Life 3 and Source Engine 2, it could have a lot of sales.

Besides, how well is Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon doing for the 3DS and Wii U? How well did those franchises do during the GameCube's lifespan?

Half Life 2's not a Steam exclusive title. Zelda has thrived on the Wii, Pokémon has thrived on the DS. Neither have current gen releases, I presume they will continue to thrive.

I'm excited to see a potential new competitor in the console space, I just largely disagree that PC exclusives are stronger than console exclusives. If this system launches, its appeal will likely lay in accessibility and price.
 

scitek

Member
With something like this, I could see OpenGL making a lot of advances. It would give people like John Carmack a reason to go back to supporting it.
 

Rad-

Member
I don't really get the draw for Steambox if it's Linux based but I guess nice if some do. More competition is good.
 

Karma

Banned
So 4 consoles now. Choice is good. SteamBox and Xbox 720 this year. PS4 is going to be really behind if they go in 2014.
 

DarkFlow

Banned
Many of the most popular distros have negated the necessity of the command line entirely. It's an outdated criticism.
Well yeah, but if your really need to dig into it, you still need command lines. It's not a criticism, just the way Linux works. Everyone can stand to learn a little command line magic.
 
If Valve makes the transition away from Windows more than likely more companies might join them. Imagine if Half Life 3 is Linux only.

That would be suicide. The smart thing to do would be to release it on all platforms.

This box could be just what i want if they were to somehow get all older Pc games to run on it.

The main thing that puts me off PC gaming is the ease of use and user friendliness of a console. I love my xbox in that its just buy a game, and play it. No checking to see if i can run it or constantly needing to upgrade.

A standardised steam box could be a perfect fit for me. And if it isnt well they better release Hl3 on 360!!
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
I'll reserve judgement until details are given by Valve themselves. I can understand the move to Linux, but if it ends up limiting the library because so many games aren't being ported or can't run in Wine then it's going to hurt the console itself.

I want one because I want a sort of "gaming PC" that has a good enough graphics and processor that I can still be happy with my MacBook Air without needing a high-end Pro in order to have a card powerful enough. (In BootCamp or Parallels) So by having a gaming PC to play my games on a TV I'd be happy. I'll get a gaming box at some point whether it's a SteamBox or an actual gaming PC that I can connect to my TV.

Bring it on, Valve. What you announce will determine its fate.

I only have a small library filled with games I've mostly gotten from bundles, but there are so many I can't even run even in Windows dedicated because my card isn't beefy enough. Give me something beefy. Or I'm building my own... eventually. (That's the reason I want a box I can buy off the shelf. I don't know a thing about building a PC.)
 
I have a gaming PC, 360, PS3, Wii and I'm interested in a Steambox for no other reason than to play have an easy way to play my steam games from the couch. Plus the fringe benefit of a possible HTPC assuming I can stick media files and VLC on the thing.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
So 4 consoles now. Choice is good. SteamBox and Xbox 720 this year. PS4 is going to be really behind if they go in 2014.

That's the thing, Sony is gonna have to pull out the big guns if they plan to release in 2014 while Nintendo, Microsoft, and now Valve will be out in the market. My decision includes the next Xbox and allows for one more console: that will either be the Steambox or the PS4.
 

angelfly

Member
I'd be willing to bet money that Valve gets a call from MS on Monday with some kind of offer to get Windows on these things. They did it with netbooks, OLPC, and this looks like a likely target. Of course I don't see Valve accepting after all the investment they've put into Linux.
 

MutFox

Banned
The push to get off Windows to Linux had to come eventually...
Being in a full on open environment is the way to go.

Of course the start is going to be rough,
but it has to start somewhere...

We'll thank Valve 10-15 years from now...
 
I'd be willing to bet money that Valve gets a call from MS on Monday with some kind of offer to get Windows on these things. They did it with netbooks, OLPC, and this looks like a likely target. Of course I don't see Valve accepting after all the investment they've put into Linux.

I doubt Microsoft is feeling all that threatened by a Linux-based console. Nor is Sony. But I'll reserve judgement until they actually show it off and also indicate which devs/publishers are taking it seriously enough to cater to.
 

DarkFlow

Banned
I just hope alongside the premade box they sale, they also have a distro of the stream OS and basic specs to meet for a homemade box. I would much rather build my own and dual boot it then just having a separate steam box.
 
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