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3DS HOMEBREW Discussion Thread [exploits/carts/applications/games]

Rich!

Member
What is preventing Nintendo from patching this asap?

The simple fact that they can't.

  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that
 

Rich!

Member
Oh god, all the cheaper Buy it now's on ebay are disappearing. I literally just saw a new $15 listing go away.

You think that's bad? You should see ebay.co.uk:

jba2KE85lOMG6B.png


Yep. Those are the last three left on the entire site. Bear in mind that £65 is US$100.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
Well, basically you're right, but it's quite complex:
  • Homebrew Channel itself is only a convenience as it simplifies launching stuff instead of relaunching exploits over and over again. The AHBPROT... thing... that was added at some point... well it is used by most of these programs nowadays, but again that's a convenience thing.
  • If there were no unsigned code exploits, there would be neither a Homebrew Channel or a cIOS based USB loader working, so they have something in common.
  • Wii piracy itself was possible before unsigned code exploits, by means of modding the optical drive, and loads of people did that.
  • It could be possible for some insane hacker team to convert a retail game to homebrew.
  • It could be possible for some moderately stubborn hacker to tweak the Wii cheat programs, usually considered a "non-rogue" homebrew, so that they enable piracy without modifying system files.

I honestly don't expect anything amazing happening at 3DS homebrew anytime soon. I would buy the thing if it stayed at 5 EUR, heck if it stayed at 20 EUR, but I guess I missed the clock. Curse the university. As the game itself doesn't interest me, I'll probably pass.
This is very interesting, thanks for sharing. It's amazing the stuff dedicated people can pull off, even if it's not always in the company's best interests (like piracy). But homebrew software can add a lot to a console, so it's a nice thing to have anyway. Being able to play GBA games on a non-Ambassador 3DS would be great.
 
The simple fact that they can't.

  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that

Yep. It's a usermode exploit. Basically, Nintendo doesn't have a way to differentiate legitimate Cubic Ninja code from homebrew code, because technically, the game has permission to call all the functions homebrew applications would use to run, say, an SNES emulator. Similar exploits on the PSP, as far as I can tell after a bit of searching, also went unpatched. When the attack vector is a game, and it's a usermode exploit, you're pretty much set.

Now, if this were a kernel exploit in some way, then Nintendo would be able to patch it on their end, but in this case, the game never tries to do anything it isn't already supposed to be able to do, so there's nothing for the OS to really detect.

And if it enables region unlocking, then this is pretty much the best kind of exploit. It's just a shame that it's only for such a random, out of print game, though I guess someone could import a Japanese 3DS and then use the eShop version of the game as a passthrough or something.
 
Just got my copy, secondhand for 15€. The website kept on giving errors when I tried to place my order, had to enter my details over and over again, finally went through when I decided not to enter my membership ID.

Clerk told me some guy grabbed it after I ordered it, luckily they told him it was reserved (last copy). They wrote down his details just in case I didn't show up :^)

Looking forward to seeing some cool 3D demos with this.
 
Is there any reason to keep the game once you've done the exploit? If not, I assume prices will come back down or at least not continue to skyrocket up as everyone just buys the game, uses it, and resells it.
 
Is there any reason to keep the game once you've done the exploit? If not, I assume prices will come back down or at least not continue to skyrocket up as everyone just buys the game, uses it, and resells it.

Yes. You need to run the exploit from the game every time. It's not permanent.
 
Is there any reason to keep the game once you've done the exploit? If not, I assume prices will come back down or at least not continue to skyrocket up as everyone just buys the game, uses it, and resells it.

You apparently need to use it every time you want to load it, which is why I want to know if we will ever see a more permanent solution.
 
The simple fact that they can't.

  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that

I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.
 
I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.

Turn off wifi?
 
prices just went from $20 to $40 on amazon lol, insane

the thirst is real, gamestop called me to say my pick up hold was canceled due to 2 people i guess placing an order before me but the funny thing is that he marked it as picked up since he didn't want a bad record or something

my tin foil hat is that he knew and got it for himself
 
Just picked up a 5.00$ copy from Rock30. Never ordered from them before, but the price seems too good to pass up. Hopefully everything goes through.
 
I mean they could scan the SD card and remove offending exploit files at every boot, but that wouldn't stop anything really, just be a bit of an annoyance until it's worked around.
 

Rich!

Member
I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.

That would be illegal here in the UK. You cannot prevent consumers from using legally purchased software in that way.

Done.
 
I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.

So retroactively/indefinitely make the game - an official, licensed release that Ubisoft had to actually pay money to Nintendo to produce carts of - an unlicensed release that people who spent money to play/own it can not, and can no longer use? I dont think that will work, just like in the DS days with flashcards and cheat carts that used legit game headers to acquire permission to run. The exploitable PSP games or PS1 minis or whatever that existed on Vita could be blocked since there was never a retail Vita release that also:

- needed to have its status as valid playable software revoked
- required publishing by the hardware mfgr in order to be an official licensed physical retail release

Even if end user complaints could be ignored for system safety, I feel like it'd be tough to either revoke Ubi's legit product, or refund Ubi's printing/publishing cost to decertify the game.
 
prices just went from $20 to $40 on amazon lol, insane

the thirst is real, gamestop called me to say my pick up hold was canceled due to 2 people i guess placing an order before me but the funny thing is that he marked it as picked up since he didn't want a bad record or something

my tin foil hat is that he knew and got it for himself

Call corporate. Report that shit.
 
I mean they could scan the SD card and remove offending exploit files at every boot, but that wouldn't stop anything really, just be a bit of an annoyance until it's worked around.

Well, actually... that's how they blocked the Twilight Hack on Wii. They didn't block the similar third-party exploits though. And unlike with Wii, I think 3DS will protect loudly if you take out SD card during its operation. (No, I won't check that.)

Also, you just gave me an idea how to block Smash Stack on Wii U for good, which probably isn't the best idea ever but sounds completely implementable. Maybe I should thinking about blocking ssspwn for mental exercise.
 

rekameohs

Banned
Well, actually... that's how they blocked the Twilight Hack on Wii. They didn't block the similar third-party exploits though. And unlike with Wii, I think 3DS will protect loudly if you take out SD card during its operation. (No, I won't check that.)

Also, you just gave me an idea how to block Smash Stack on Wii U for good, which probably isn't the best idea ever but sounds completely implementable. Maybe I should thinking about blocking ssspwn for mental exercise.

Nintendo's Smash Stack block actually does exactly that on Wii U - deletes the file on boot. But you can just load Brawl and then put the SD card in, and the exploit works.
 
Turn off wifi?

It was being argued that it couldn't be patched (which is false), not that it couldn't be prevented completely (which is true). You can always turn off wifi. That doesn't mean that Nintendo can't patch it out of operation.

That would be illegal here in the UK. You cannot prevent consumers from using legally purchased software in that way.

Done.

What did Sony do about those PS1 games that people bought to play on Vita that were blocked in short order?

You can't prevent people from using software even temporarily? What if it's causing devices to "malfunction?"

Regardless of all that, Nintendo can prevent users from running software until it's been updated. They do it now. I try to boot up Pokemon X or something and it says "hey, you need to update this software from the eShop first." So they could do the same here, provided they come up with a legit patch. I suspect all they have to do is block interaction with the SD card.

Maybe you can't prevent consumers from using legally purchased software, but you can neuter the fuck out of it. Forced update that disallows users from loading save games, that sort of thing. Spin it as an added challenge, or call it an accident that will be fixed shortly.

Fact is, it's patchable.
 

ec0ec0

Member
I am going to the store on a bus. I will be there in half an hour. My game (their only copy) should still be waiting for me there... i hope.
 
prices just went from $20 to $40 on amazon lol, insane

the thirst is real, gamestop called me to say my pick up hold was canceled due to 2 people i guess placing an order before me but the funny thing is that he marked it as picked up since he didn't want a bad record or something

my tin foil hat is that he knew and got it for himself

Gamestop employees are unaware of exactly what's going on, but information is just now starting to spread. All they know is this particular game is suddenly popular.

I said this before, but those holds you can put in? Either online or by calling in? They are completely up to the whim of the employees.

I can say from firsthand experience that being in the store and wanting the game is much more effective than clicking a button online, from a getting the game standpoint.

I am going to the store on a bus. I will be there in half an hour. My game (their only copy) should still be waiting for me there... i hope.

Probably not, man. Dudes on the east coast are already on the road as of 2-3 hours ago.
 
Nintendo's Smash Stack block actually does exactly that on Wii U - deletes the file on boot. But you can just load Brawl and then put the SD card in, and the exploit works.
I said for good, and I meant it (assuming the current block itself is well-written, and, well, also assuming that I'm right).
That would be illegal here in the UK. You cannot prevent consumers from using legally purchased software in that way.

Done.
Interesting. Did you get any consolation cash in UK when Sony removed Linux support from PS3s? That would be some sort of comparison..
 
Nothing. In fact, I still have them in my DOWNLOAD QUEUE on my PSN account, so I can load them later.

Right. You can't play them on your Vita now, but you still own them so you can play them when/if they're patched in later.

Just like you wouldn't be able to play Cubic Ninja now, but you still own it so you can play it when/if it's patched later.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Thread needs "/piracy" in the title, because we all know it's true. I can't pretend I'm in favour of this news because I think it will damage the platform. Hopefully the likes of Majoras Mask and other releases can kill it somehow.

No, that doesn't make any fucking sense. This homebrew doesn't allow for piracy and if anyone is looking for piracy they can already get flashcarts that do exactly that. This homebrew will do nothing to "damage" the platform.
 
Call corporate. Report that shit.

haha that tag , i need your help detective :p but meh the guy is just shook

Gamestop employees are unaware of exactly what's going on, but information is just now starting to spread. All they know is this particular game is suddenly popular.

I said this before, but those holds you can put in? Either online or by calling in? They are completely up to the whim of the employees.

I can say from firsthand experience that being in the store and wanting the game is much more effective than clicking a button online, from a getting the game standpoint.
.

i was close to waiting at 9 am for the store to open but said why not and tried holding but failed but i agree with what you said


well, i got an email saying i can pick it up, like its confirmed D: if i go and its not available i will bitch since its pretty far x call corporate , i got proof now :p
 

DorkyMohr

Banned
No, that doesn't make any fucking sense. This homebrew doesn't allow for piracy and if anyone is looking for piracy they can already get flashcarts that do exactly that. This homebrew will do nothing to "damage" the platform.

What about Virtual Console? Isn't homebrew mainly used for emulators?
 

Vena

Member
No, that doesn't make any fucking sense. This homebrew doesn't allow for piracy and if anyone is looking for piracy they can already get flashcarts that do exactly that. This homebrew will do nothing to "damage" the platform.

Last I ever checked, 3DS does not have flash karts for the 3DS software.

You're also entirely missing the point of what emulators will do to virtual console sales.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Probably not, man. Dudes on the east coast are already on the road as of 2-3 hours ago.

Hopefully the spanish ones are not :p (thats were i live)

Now, if the game is not there, i am going to get really mad. I saw the news thanks to this thread 8 hours ago (a couple of hours after the thread was created). If it wasnt because i HAD to be in home until now because today some technicians came to change the gas... i could have been in the store 7 f*cking hours ago.

I am going to kill someone if the game is not there... (i am a little worried :p)
 
This would be a great scam. Buy up a few hundred copies of some dirt cheap but fairly rare 3DS game, get a known hacker to announce an exploit for said game, wait a few days until the price has been driven up to obscene levels and profit.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Last I ever checked, 3DS does not have flash karts for the 3DS software.

You're also entirely missing the point of what emulators will do to virtual console sales.

There is. Check Gateway. Has been available for quite some time already and they recently got it working on new firmwares as well.

And no, I don't think it will affect sales of VC sales by much, if at all. If you want to pirate those you can already play them in every other device you own. Hell, at least this puts a fire under Nintendo's asses and maybe they will think of doing proper good emulation on their VC titles instead of the absolute minimum required.

Apparently running GB and GBC emulators with roms isn't considered "pirating".

(I'm not ok with it)
If you own them then no, it isn't pirating. If you don't own them, then it is pirating. Not that it matters much at all, no devs or publishers are getting any money from those titles (except on cases where they are available in digital form of course) so pirating or buying those used are basically the same thing.
 

gngf123

Member
Apparently running GB and GBC emulators with roms isn't considered "pirating".

(I'm not ok with it)

It isn't if you take backups of the games yourself.

I'm actually not familiar enough with those devices to know how easily available the backup devices are, but I'd be killing for a half decent SNES emulator.
 

M3d10n

Member
The simple fact that they can't.

  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that

Actually, if Nintendo *really* wanted to could patch the 3DS firmware itself to "patch" the game during load and close the exploit. But since the game exists in limited quantities, they might not even bother.
 

Rich!

Member
It isn't if you take backups of the games yourself.

I'm actually not familiar enough with those devices to know how easily available the backup devices are, but I'd be killing for a half decent SNES emulator.

I backed up all of my Game Boy and GBC games with a Transfer Pak and an Everdrive 64. Anyone in the gbc retro thread can attest to that.

I also backed up all my GBA games using a DS lite and flashcart and SNES games with a retrode.
 
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