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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

V

Veezy

que?
IoCaster said:
Go replay ME2 and really pay attention this time. This whole series went off the rails storywise in the first few minutes of that game when they killed off and resurrected Shepard for no conceivable reason other than to force him to work for TIM/Cerberus. You remember Cerberus from ME, right? Somehow we're expected to believe that a small group of former Alliance black-ops goofballs transform into a near galactic superpower with seemingly unlimited funding and a private army. It's beyond wretched how incompetent Mac Walters is at crafting a coherent narrative.
Click to expand...

I never played the first ME (PS3 owner here), but I figured that they'd have at least have a few nods in the comic prequel thing. I can't recall them even being mentioned, much less discussed at the status they appear to be in ME2. Then, somehow, they get so powerful that a human fleet is required to take down their main base. Just doesn't make any sense. Not significant enough to discuss in the scope of the story for the first game to acquiring enough resources and recruits to attack the citadel, multiple human colonies, and require a whole fleet to take them down. In a year or so. And somehow having the tools to indoctrinate their own soldiers. Yet not really since they don't work for the reapers.

Just illogical.
 
R

rozay

Banned
hateradio said:
I got it from the CE. Can you post the cover art?

You can drag/drop it from the Selected Item box to the desktop, so that it creates a JPG.
Click to expand...
you can get high res cover art from the BSN in the same page you download the CE album from. I posted it at some point in one of these threads.
 
H

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Yes, I know. I downloaded it from there, too. But the iTunes cover is different.

I've been collecting the different types. I'm a collector. (Har.)

Concept
iExKmMn2QrqJy.jpg


Random
i68YAzcH9I654.jpg

iBYuuvXChLPn2.jpg


CE
iOdleUIFbYPto.jpg
 
IoCaster

IoCaster

Member
The Broken Ska Record said:
I just figured the whole death/rebirth thing was a bit ham-handed, but it was the best way to Metroid Shepard at the beginning of the second game. I found all of the writing, in all three games, to be a bit too much at times.
Click to expand...

I think that ME had some inconsistencies, but was generally well done and interesting. ME2 was a good game although IMO a piss poor sequel and it took a sideways lurch into wtf territory. I've enjoyed playing all three games, but other than some of the individual character bits the writing has been the weakest part of the series.
 
R

rozay

Banned
I just checked and you're right, it's different. The ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK plastered on the top of the cover ruins it for me though.
 
T

The Broken Ska Record

Member
IoCaster said:
I think that ME had some inconsistencies, but was generally well done and interesting. ME2 was a good game although IMO a piss poor sequel and it took a sideways lurch into wtf territory. I've enjoyed playing all three games, but other than some of the individual character bits the writing has been the weakest part of the series.
Click to expand...

Oh, yea, don't get me wrong. I liked playing all of the games. In fact, I beat ME2 and ME3 within a few days of getting both of them. I was able to turn my brain off, mostly, during each game and I enjoyed them for what they were. It's just that the ending of ME3, brought the bad writing/plot holes back to the forefront when I look back on the other games.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
it's funny to see that people want a better ending so much. Allright, if Bioware retcon it will you be looking forward to ME4 after what they have done to ME3? The series didn't live up to its promise and flaws which the first two games had are more apparent now than ever because they lead to nothing. The only game where your choices mattered a bit was ME2 because the final mission played differently depending on the outcome of loyalty missions, your willingness to explore/upgrade and so on. And some loyalty missions weren't guaranteed to be successful if you complete them. It's easy to fuck up Tali's one, Zaeed's mission and miss some speech skillchecks facing some sticky situations with the crew. It's easy to miss some upgrades if you are not completionist. And even when the final mission starts you are not guaranteed that your crew will survive it (also that Normandy's crew will survive it). I lost a squadmate on each run (sent Thaine to hold hordes because he was a badass sniper and was supposed to take them all from afar and made Miranda shield us because she was genetically enhanced and seem to be more stable than Jack - Justicar did the shield on my first run).

ME1 on the other hand had shit side missions with some neat character interactions (in some of them) and your actions had less effect on the game overall except the Virmire mission. You FELT like your actions matter a lot because they were supposed to but they didn't in the end. So in the end ME2 provides the best package of the three - it perfectly balances RPG elements and action elements and it provides both well-fleshed out side missions (including loyalty quests) and story missions. I felt the sense of urgency AND I was able to explore the galaxy and do some side stuff.

So looking back I can safely say that ME2 is my favourite ME game even though I love ME1.
 
T

The Broken Ska Record

Member
I'd probably say ME1 was the better game of the three, for me. It had a fairly concise story, despite having pretty bad charactization and very awkward choices (including the romance "sub-plot").

ME2 was miles ahead of ME1's characterization (I actually liked Liara, Garrus, and Tali), but the RPG mechanics were abysmal and the combat was okay. The story felt too "segmented" and didn't flow at all. Probably because of the loyalty stories and stuff. Whcih, thinking about, I'm fine with now because they were more than just "go here, kill this, go back."

ME3's RPG system and combat was a good mix of 1 and 2, and the flow of the story up to the end was better than ME2's.
 
IoCaster

IoCaster

Member
Veezy said:
I never played the first ME (PS3 owner here), but I figured that they'd have at least have a few nods in the comic prequel thing. I can't recall them even being mentioned, much less discussed at the status they appear to be in ME2. Then, somehow, they get so powerful that a human fleet is required to take down their main base. Just doesn't make any sense. Not significant enough to discuss in the scope of the story for the first game to acquiring enough resources and recruits to attack the citadel, multiple human colonies, and require a whole fleet to take them down. In a year or so. And somehow having the tools to indoctrinate their own soldiers. Yet not really since they don't work for the reapers.

Just illogical.
Click to expand...

There were some Cerberus related side quests in ME. They were referred to as a former Alliance black-ops organization and Shep took out some of their bases in the game. From the ME wiki:

During the events of Mass Effect, Commander Shepard discovers that Cerberus was a former Alliance black-ops organization with top-secret credentials and full clearance to Alliance activities. Through Admiral Kahoku, Shepard learns that Cerberus has conducted horrific experiments intended to create super soldiers, including experiments on rachni and Thorian Creepers. They accidentally unleashed rachni on Listening Posts Alpha and Theta when their experimental subjects -- shipped from Noveria -- escaped from Depot Sigma-23. Cerberus also deliberately destroyed a settlement on Chasca by turning the colonial pioneer team there into Husks. A traumatised marine named Corporal Toombs also claimed that in one of their most devastating experiments, Cerberus lured thresher maws to the colony on Akuze, resulting in the notorious massacre, later capturing Toombs -- one of the only survivors -- to conduct brutal tests. Things came to a head when Commander Shepard, investigating the disappearance of a group of marines under Rear Admiral Kahoku, found that Cerberus had lured them to a thresher maw nest using a distress beacon (similar to the "experiment" they allegedly conducted on Akuze). After being informed of the marines' fate, Kahoku bought information from the Shadow Broker and asked Shepard to track Cerberus down. During his investigation, Kahoku came to conclusion that Cerberus was in fact a rogue black ops group that broke away from the Alliance. However, soon after he had managed to contact Commander Shepard with this information, Kahoku was captured and killed by Cerberus. Shepard finds Kahoku's body in a Cerberus facility on Binthu. Shepard then headed to Nepheron to launch an assault on Cerberus' main base.
Click to expand...

Then in ME2 Walters invented TIM and to me it all went to shit. They had a whole galaxy full of interesting alien species to utilize and they couldn't come up with anything more interesting than a clichéd Bond villain with unlimited resources and an army of incompetent drones. He painted them into a corner with that nonsense and the 'suicide mission' really boxed them in even further. All of that time wasted on Cerberus and the Reapers ended up being mostly sidelined in ME2. That resulted in stupid crap like the council backpeddling on the Reaper threat and "Ah, yes Reapers...". Anyway, I don't want to reprise all of the old arguments about how bad some of us thought the writing in ME2 was. It's all history now and with the conclusion of ME3, the trilogy and seemingly the franchise are done. *shrug*
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
IoCaster said:
Then in ME2 Walters invented TIM and to me it all went to shit. They had a whole galaxy full of interesting alien species to utilize and they couldn't come up with anything more interesting than a clichéd Bond villain with unlimited resources and an army of incompetent drones.
Click to expand...

see, I don't get complaints like that. The whole series is a cliched space opera rip-off with 0 originality. Aliens are cliched and boring "human" species, art style is derivative from other sci-fi movies and so on. The series worked because the player felt like he was in control and put his own emotions and feeling into all this stuff.

if Mass Effect was supposed to be an interesting science fiction they would ditch aliens and make humans into aliens. Because after living on a planet with a different climate, differrent gravity, different magnetic fields for a few hundred years you are bound to be fucking different comparing to a guy from Earth or some other planet, both physically and psychologically. What the hell, people from different countries on Earth still feel alien to each other. Bioware could actually try to explore what basic qualities make humans into humans and if there are any "basic" qualities at all or we are all products of an environment only, even down to some very basic stuff. That would be much more interesting than generic aliens who act like humans nonetheless.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
The Broken Ska Record said:
I just figured the whole death/rebirth thing was a bit ham-handed, but it was the best way to Metroid Shepard at the beginning of the second game. I found all of the writing, in all three games, to be a bit too much at times.
Click to expand...

The best way to metroid shepard was you just give the player the option to change stuff and pretend thats how its always was. Not create dumb plot holes.
 
IoCaster

IoCaster

Member
subversus said:
The series worked because the player felt like he was in control and put his own emotions and feeling into all this stuff.
Click to expand...


How was I supposed to feel like I was in control of anything when my 'sole survivor' Shep is forced into a state of indentured servitude to TIM/Cerberus?

Let us suppose for a moment that they ditched the whole TIM/Cerberus nonsense and didn't kill off Shep. Instead they could have destroyed the Normandy and have the player wake up in an Alliance hospital. That effectively breaks up the ME crew to go their separate ways and gives the player the opportunity to respec/change appearance etc,. You get a new Alliance Normandy SR2 and a new mission to investigate the abductions from not just human, but alien colonies too. The council wouldn't have to act like a bunch of incompetent idiots and since aliens are also being abducted you would be investigating the abductions as part of your spectre duties as well. You can basically recruit allies as part of the investigation while you travel around picking up clues about the Collectors and what if any connection they have to the Reapers. They could have used Batarian slave traders and mercs as agents of the Collectors to give variety to some of the enemy encounters. Very similar structure to ME with an expanded squad to fill out the roster for an eventual mission to take down the Collector Base. The Collector Base would have been a giant monster factory for creating all of the abominations that form the Reaper army in ME3. No need for Cerberus or dossiers or 'loyalty' missions or any of that nonsense. The game would end with a short conversation with Harbinger and the player finds out the Reapers are almost on the doorstep which sets up ME3.

I don't want to veer too far off into fanfic territory here, but it's not too difficult to craft a story with many of the same elements of ME2 without having to resort to stupid plot holes, retcons and/or killing off your main character only to resurrect him five minutes later. Because retconning a small splinter cell of incompetent terrorists into TIM/Cerberus and giving them the capability to cure death is totally ridiculous. To my mind that shit rocketed the plot beyond the absurdity event horizon before the player even gets to the customization screen. In any case, it is what it was and I'll stop here because there's really no point in continuing.
 
T

televator

Member
lastplayed said:
I'm probably late to the party, but the ME3 soundtrack is now on iTunes. Yay.
Click to expand...

I got mine from the CE as well, but has anyone noted a track missing from one of the later areas near the end of the game? It's a pretty funky track that's pretty catchy. Shame it wasn't in the ST.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
IoCaster said:
How was I supposed to feel like I was in control of anything when my 'sole survivor' Shep is forced into a state of indentured servitude to TIM/Cerberus?
Click to expand...

I meant in general. You decided who lived and who didn't, you decided on who represents the humanity, you decided on giving Cerberus the technology from Collector's base or not. All these choices (and a lot of other, minor ones) gave this feeling. But like 80% of them (most major ones btw) were superficial and didn't matter at all.

as for this whole Cerberus thing I didn't care because the lore is too lazy for care. If Shepard started working for some rogue Reapers in ME2 I wouldn't mind too because it's pulp sci-fi and I like it this way. Yeah, nonsense but whatever.
 
D

Darte

Member
Did I miss something in the past few days?

You guys are talking like there is still hope for indoc theory or retconning the current ending.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
Darte said:
Did I miss something in the past few days?

You guys are talking like there is still hope for indoc theory or retconning the current ending.
Click to expand...

Hope dies last and all that stuff.

I think it's 50/50 - it either happens or not, lol. On the one hand the future of the franchise is on the cards so they might want to save it. On the other hand they already asked what timeframe BEFORE ME3 people would prefer for the next ME game.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
I bet Bioware's going to put Indoctrination somewhere in the DLC ending and they gon' be all like "Yeah, we had it all planned. Everything was perfectly written with no stupidity or plotholes. We never expected you guys to find out before the DLC came out. You know, the DLC we were forced to make because no one liked the ending"
 
T

The Broken Ska Record

Member
If Bioware really does a prequel to the ME games, I really hope it's from a non-human perspective but still incorporated tons of other races.

HK-47 said:
The best way to metroid shepard was you just give the player the option to change stuff and pretend thats how its always was. Not create dumb plot holes.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I found the whole intro to be a bit silly. Well, it was pretty cool, but the consequences felt too "forced" and "gamey." Like I said before, I found the writing to be pretty mediocre, but I looked the other way and kept on because I liked the universe and wanted to see where they were going with it.
 
G

Gazzawa

Member
utsavinheaven said:
don't worry at all,still more to come.
makes u feal no better then the reapers.

oh btw,in Renegade u can still save mordin.
Click to expand...

I heard that somewhere actually. Whoever wrote the tuchunka part of the game whould have went on to write the rest of it. Never felt so attached in any other game.

I'm taking a few days break from this. I need to think about what I've done.
 
U

utsavinheaven

Member
Gazzawa said:
I heard that somewhere actually. Whoever wrote the tuchunka part of the game whould have went on to write the rest of it. Never felt so attached in any other game.

I'm taking a few days break from this. I need to think about what I've done.
Click to expand...

hey this is just a game,next playthru take paragon side and do all right stuff.cheers

BTW do u have Wrex or Wrev?
 
M

Moaradin

Member
Gui_PT said:
Wait.. You can prevent Mordin from dying?
Click to expand...

Yea. You need to kill Wrex in ME1 so Wreav is in charge and you need to destory Maelon's Data in ME2 so the krogan female dies. If that happens you can convince Mordin that the krogan aren't worth dying for.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
Moaradin said:
Yea. You need to kill Wrex in ME1 so Wreav is in charge and you need to destory Maelon's Data in ME2 so the krogan female dies. If that happens you can convince Mordin that the krogan aren't worth dying for.
Click to expand...

Well fuck that.

Mordin had a good run and a cool death.
 
R

Rubezh

Member
Moaradin said:
Yea. You need to kill Wrex in ME1 so Wreav is in charge and you need to destory Maelon's Data in ME2 so the krogan female dies. If that happens you can convince Mordin that the krogan aren't worth dying for.
Click to expand...

Those decisions are also the default ones if you start a new game.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
subversus said:
I meant in general. You decided who lived and who didn't, you decided on who represents the humanity, you decided on giving Cerberus the technology from Collector's base or not. All these choices (and a lot of other, minor ones) gave this feeling. But like 80% of them (most major ones btw) were superficial and didn't matter at all.

as for this whole Cerberus thing I didn't care because the lore is too lazy for care. If Shepard started working for some rogue Reapers in ME2 I wouldn't mind too because it's pulp sci-fi and I like it this way. Yeah, nonsense but whatever.
Click to expand...

To be honest, lots of those decisions are kinda dumb power fantasy decisions.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
^
The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.
Click to expand...

Critics ≠ most folk.
 
R

RedRedSuit

Member
Veezy said:
Just illogical.
Click to expand...

I hate to bring this up again, but since I'm replaying ME1 right now:

1.25 of ME games (.25 ME1 and all of ME2) are based on the premise that the Council doesn't believe Shepard about Sovereign and then the overall Reaper threat. I mean 75% into ME1, RIGHT after you come back from a direct conversation with f'n Sovereign himself, they dismiss Shepard as a crazy-talker and even refer to his "report" about Sovereign. I feel like if his suit, or whatever, just recorded the whole conversation it would be absurd for the Council to just dismiss him like that. I mean, Sovereign personally just lays it all out: we are legion, we're going to fucking kill you, I'm a Reaper, fuck you. Yet they're just like, "yeah, we read your report, lacking evidence, sorry." Did he send it to them by snail mail?

These things are pretty illogical. They can be swallowed though, since the results are things like giving you a badass new Normandy, and a premise for continuing the series. This is quite different from how ME3's ending invalidates pretty much all of the premise of the 1st game, for no good reason.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Shepard is a crazy talker. He runs ons dreams and circumstantial evidence, and him and Anderson together are like the crazy show. The council has no reason to believe you. You act like a whiny baby. It isnt until 2 that the council becomes mindfuckingly retarded cause the plot requires the reapers surprise us and lololol politicians or some jazz.
 
R

RedRedSuit

Member
HK-47 said:
Shepard is a crazy talker. He runs ons dreams and circumstantial evidence, and him and Anderson together are like the crazy show. The council has no reason to believe you. You act like a whiny baby. It isnt until 2 that the council becomes mindfuckingly retarded cause the plot requires the reapers surprise us and lololol politicians or some jazz.
Click to expand...

But he ISN'T a crazy-talker once he literally speaks to Sovereign himself at Virmire. At that point, any video of this conversation should automatically throw the Council into holy-shit mode. Yet they just say "we've only got your dreams, sorry dude," when that is factually untrue. In principle even with that evidence they could say something like "it's a hologram set up by Saren to fool you," but (a) they don't say that, and (b) if they did that's just incredibly contrived.

Video camera. Gotta bring one on these missions.

ME2 of course just makes it worse, what with the ending of ME1 and all.
 
F

Fimbulvetr

Member
RedRedSuit said:
I hate to bring this up again, but since I'm replaying ME1 right now:

1.25 of ME games (.25 ME1 and all of ME2) are based on the premise that the Council doesn't believe Shepard about Sovereign and then the overall Reaper threat. I mean 75% into ME1, RIGHT after you come back from a direct conversation with f'n Sovereign himself, they dismiss Shepard as a crazy-talker and even refer to his "report" about Sovereign. I feel like if his suit, or whatever, just recorded the whole conversation it would be absurd for the Council to just dismiss him like that. I mean, Sovereign personally just lays it all out: we are legion, we're going to fucking kill you, I'm a Reaper, fuck you. Yet they're just like, "yeah, we read your report, lacking evidence, sorry." Did he send it to them by snail mail?

These things are pretty illogical. They can be swallowed though, since the results are things like giving you a badass new Normandy, and a premise for continuing the series. This is quite different from how ME3's ending invalidates pretty much all of the premise of the 1st game, for no good reason.
Click to expand...

Actually, some of the dialogue with the Councilors and later Ashley(both after you blow up Saren's base) implies Shepard had never actually submitted his suit recordings. Some dialogue in ME2 implies the same thing(they even reference both the Sovereign hologram AND Vigil while doing so). So it's less the council being unreasonable and more Shepard being absurdly moronic.
 
R

RedRedSuit

Member
Fimbulvetr said:
Actually, some of the dialogue with the Councilors and later Ashley(both after you blow up Saren's base) implies Shepard had never actually submitted his suit recordings. Some dialogue in ME2 implies the same thing(they even reference both the Sovereign hologram AND Vigil while doing so). So it's less the council being unreasonable and more Shepard being absurdly moronic.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Video camera. Gotta bring one on these missions.
Click to expand...
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
What always bothered me was how willing the council was to accept a sound recording of Saren that was so oddly specific, never questioning if it was manufactured or not. But then i was like, whatever, im a spectre now.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
Crewnh said:
What always bothered me was how willing the council was to accept a sound recording of Saren that was so oddly specific, never questioning if it was manufactured or not. But then i was like, whatever, im a spectre now.
Click to expand...

Especially since Tali found the geth, tracked them to an uncharted planet, stole one's memory core, traveled to the Citadel, got shot by Saren's assassins, arrived at Dr. Michel's clinic in the Wards a week before Shepard met her (remember this, and consider how much extra time is tacked on when you consider everything she did before), then finally met Shepard while arranging a meeting with Fist.

Shepard arrived on the Citadel fifteen hours after Eden Prime, and spent what couldn't have been more than a day on the Citadel before meeting Tali.

Think about that timeframe.


(also in the actual post-Eden Prime cutscene, Saren is totally homicidal and pissed off by Shepard using the beacon while Benezia is emotionless, and in the recording they're both all, "WOO YEAH REAPERS THAT SURE WAS A GREAT SUCCESS")
 
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