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American Gods |OT| You Had Me At Bryan Fuller - Sundays on Starz
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I'm used to hearing much, much worse.
molnizzle
Member
I'm confused about Bilquis. In the vignette they show her back in ancient Egypt (I think?) and they're acting as if it's the same god today in America. I thought the gods from the show are just the American versions of the original gods? Wouldn't American Bilquis have no memory of her original roots? Just seems weird to me.
Like even Wednesday said he had "never left the country" when asked by Shadow. I always assumed there were different versions of the gods in each region. Scandinavian Odin would probably still be doing alright, for example.
Like even Wednesday said he had "never left the country" when asked by Shadow. I always assumed there were different versions of the gods in each region. Scandinavian Odin would probably still be doing alright, for example.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I like this show a lot, but finale left me some severe blue balls. I'm half tempted to search out some spoilers.
Haven't read the book but I imagine when new gods are created for new regions they sort of clone themselves. They're still connected in their common ancestory but this Bilquis is of a new American flavor.
Like, there was originally only one Jesus, but more were created as the need for more came about. I'm sure they all know the story of the crucifixion even without being the "original" Jesus.
If she still has believers in Ethiopia/Yemen there is probably still another version of her there.
The same is true of Mad Sweeney - I assume they're using the same actors out of simplicity/laziness/whatever. The new versions are unique entities but they would definitely have knowledge and memories of their roots. Like, the three sisters remember being rich and having servants back in the old country. At some point they splinter off and become unique entities.
You'll notice that Bilquis isn't flying to America alone, she's "hitching a ride" with the woman from the club in Iran.
molnizzle
Member
It was just weird because they showed her literally flying on a plane to the U.S. Like it was the same god that just moved to a new continent. I would've thought there would be a copy (like you said) but they're acting like it's the same Bilquis.
ahhhh, I didn't catch that. I thought she was going alone.
I think the idea is that some of the ones that we're seeing are actually the original gods, and that they just showed up in the new world after things went south in the old one. Gods only seem to clone themselves when a different interpretation is worshipped. Bilquis only ever seemed to have one interpretation so there's likely only one Bilquis, currently. They support that by showing that she changed and adapted with the times to stay on top of things before her followers all died of HIV, probably because of the whole "orgies every night" thing. Ibis' story explains how most of the old gods ended up in the new world
I don't think that was explicitly implied as Egypt. It was just a old civilization. Bilquis represents the Queen of Sheba she has roots in Mesopotamia but I believe this version was based on the Ethiopian lore. Her story ranges from Israel to many East African nations.
As some have mentioned many of the old gods are still there because of "worship" whether a little or a lot many are the last vestiges of themselves liek Odin and Easter. Some have adapted like Vulcan. Some are entities of a wider brethren like Mad Sweeney and the Djinn where there are multiple "Leperchauns" or "Genies" but we happen to be focusing on these characters for stories sake. Some are newly embodied and were created out of our lust, passion, and yearn for things. Like Mr. World and Technical boy where literal god's came into existence and and lorded over the basis of that existence. Important that many may be psuedo-gods or demi-gods. They mention offspring for many character
s. Jesus is implied to be a "son" of a god and the same could possibly be said about Shadow.
Curious if we will meet Baron Samedi of any of the Loa. That could play in well with Anasi.
Moff
Member
the whole different gods versions thing just doesn't make sense at all and I hope they never bring it up again
It makes perfect sense. You have that today with people proclaiming what their Jesus would and wouldn't do. What their God would and wouldn't do. Different versions of Gods in American Gods are only the realization of those beliefs that people hold and pray to.
And they talked about having the battle in his name, same as the very first people we see in the series.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I really don't understand your hangup on the multiple god thing.
Given people have problems recognizing deities that have been explicitly named, having their different versions played by different actors would probably melt minds.
New Gods need to beef up. Can we get a god of nuclear and chemical warfare? Like have this nerdy looking scientist go around blowing up things randomly and giving people stage V cancer on the spot. And a god of pollution, have him be this sleezy Exxon corporate representative or the like. I'd also take a god of automation who is always surrounded by a bunch of robot bodyguards.
Yeah, I'm really hoping they expand on the New Gods in S2. Always felt like there was a lot of potential there in the book but Gaiman didn't expand on them as much.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
New Gods, you say?
I think of them instead as "modern gods."
I think of them instead as "modern gods."
Moff
Member
I admit that Iam biased and generally don't like clone stories or anything that even comes close to clone stories, like this
no that does not make sense, if that were true there would not be only regional different jesuses, there would be a billion different jesuses, it's just silly to make it dependant on region or whatever. it also doesn't make sense that media on the other hand is allowed to somehow represent (and get power from) all different kinds of media. why not just tv? and I mean every single brand and model of a tv. or a newspaper, again every single newspaper on the planet? who defined that? why is she all media and other gods need to share? is there a russian media? one for RT? it does not make sense. same for technoboy.
it makes even less sense that they offered odin a north korean satellite when that obviously would only have spawned a north korean odin that didn't benefit our beloved ian mcshane odin at all. unless of course there is some kind of worldwide odin guild who meetup every year and share common goals. no wait, that would be even dumber.
it's stupid, it doesn't make sense, I hate it. I hope they never bring it up again.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm not sure what's confusing about their being multiple Jesuses. There are multiple belief systems built around different ideas of Jesus. The Jesuses have a single name but many distinct conceptualizations.
There aren't a dozen Ostara pantheons or concepts. There aren't 50 legends of Vulcan. Some of the old gods are built around natural phenomena. Odin has many names but few distinct representations.
There aren't a dozen Ostara pantheons or concepts. There aren't 50 legends of Vulcan. Some of the old gods are built around natural phenomena. Odin has many names but few distinct representations.
Kadayi
Banned
They actually show you Bilquis leaving Iran and coming to America because of the revolution in the 70s.
Certainly, some of the gods are manifestations, carried over by early immigrant settlers to the US, but other older ones like Bilquis are wanderers whose days of being actively worshipped are over.
I feel like he wasn't originally going to show up, but it's clear that the NGs are at least concerned about Wednesday's efforts to recruit the OGs. Media shows up to kind of check in on Easter to make sure that they're still in accord (especially with what happened to V) and finds that Wednesday is still there.
I think TB can't help but join in. Easter, like several other key characters, is a symbol--albeit a powerful one--that is still relevant to do this day. Which side she chooses IS of importance, and you can feel that they're still playing footsies right now with ideologies. Mr. World is ALWAYS watching and he arrives to speak as the voice of the NGs. I didn't feel like having them there was odd at all, or at least no less odd than having them present at the police station a few episodes back.
In my opinion, it's not about power--it's about belief. That's why Eostre isn't satisfied with the arrangement. She spells it out clearly to Media, "I believe I'm being misrepresented." and she is. Eostre originally represented the vernal equinox and the coming of spring. She was ultimately usurped by early Christianity who, as they often did, assimilated the gods and holidays of other religions to make it easier for pagans to convert. Now, instead of representing rebirth and fertility / the beginning of Spring, people only pay respect to her because her day now coincides with the resurrection of Christ.
In the old days, out Wednesday outlines it, there was a pact / covenant between man and god--you treat your god well and they treat you well. People offered belief, prayer, sacrifice to their gods and, in Eostre's case, she offered them life, spring, and rebirth. The OGs today are barely hanging on basically living off the scraps of the remnants of those beliefs: a god of slaughter braining cows, a goddess of divination giving readings, two gods working in a funeral parlor. It's not like the "good ol' days". The only OGs that thrive now do so under a new modernized, veneer of representation--one that is dependent on technology.
That's is one of the big questions in American Gods. Just what do Americans believe? Who are our gods now? Have we thrown away the old gods only to kneel at the altars of Facebook, TV, Twitter, and technology?
That's just my take on it any way. It's not just about the power, it's about the belief--the connection between man and god, that Eostre wants. She wants to be worshipped for who she is / was, not what she has been made to be.
But in the end I enjoyed the first season and am looking forward to the next. Even if it all felt like prologue, really... I mean, that scene where Wednesday recites his names and titles? Gave me chills. REALLY looking forward to the House on the Rock now!
Essentially, the scene with Easter in the book goes - Shadow and Wednesday show up, he makes his pitch (same general thing, where she says she's doing fine, but he says they're saying her name but aren't actually talking about her). She's non-committal but more or less agrees to join up with him. They leave.
Everything else around there (her with Laura, her with Jesus, her with the New Gods, the whole "stealing spring" plot point) is completely new. And this is the second face-to-face confrontation with the New Gods, something that hasn't happened at all at this point in the book.
Zeyphersan
Banned
It thought it was very explicit that the gods in America are the originals. Both in this show and in the book (which I admittedly havent read in several years)
Nikodemos
Member
The way the New Gods have been depicted in the series makes me feel like they're parasitic, in a way. Instead of demanding conscious devotion (and offering boons for it) they merely extract slivers of unconscious belief from the masses, providing very little apart from a sort of psychological numbing effect in return. "Existential crisis aversion" as Wotan puts it. Moreover, the deals they offer Old Gods are parasitic as well. Bilquis preys on single wo/men via technology, Vulcan is instated as the CEO of a munitions company (technology promoted via media) and Eostre's nearly-hollowed-out symbols are latched onto another belief and disseminated via media (or Media, if you will).
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I hope that we get Lucifer in this show at some point. I really wanna see Mads Mikkelsen come back in Hannibal mode.
I wonder if we will get a Blu-Ray release here in the US. The UK gets a Blu-Ray and an awesome looking steelbook release of season one next month:
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=21484
Why is it becoming so hard to get tv shows on Blu-Ray in the US these days?
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=21484
Why is it becoming so hard to get tv shows on Blu-Ray in the US these days?
Amazing show - I found it difficult to really grasp what was happening until 5 episodes in, but I was intrigued all through out.
The acting is very good and the visuals are insane - this show is the most cerebral thing I have ever seen put on television - I fucking love it.
It plays with so many themes though, I really struggle to keep up - I see a lot of people don't like the Laura character - I think I understand why she is there - she might be the representation of apathy.
I do like Wednesday's reveal - I clocked on just before he says who he really is.
Shout to McShane, Browning and the cast of the cast - Gillian is just wow....how is she getting hotter with age?
I want them to give Bilqis more to work with than just banging people - sending people to the vagina nebula is cool the first couple oof times, but yeah- that will get old.
Easter's flirtatious 'come hither' eyes ....wow...
Overall, great show - only downside being that its only 8 episodes.
The acting is very good and the visuals are insane - this show is the most cerebral thing I have ever seen put on television - I fucking love it.
It plays with so many themes though, I really struggle to keep up - I see a lot of people don't like the Laura character - I think I understand why she is there - she might be the representation of apathy.
I do like Wednesday's reveal - I clocked on just before he says who he really is.
Shout to McShane, Browning and the cast of the cast - Gillian is just wow....how is she getting hotter with age?
I want them to give Bilqis more to work with than just banging people - sending people to the vagina nebula is cool the first couple oof times, but yeah- that will get old.
Easter's flirtatious 'come hither' eyes ....wow...
Overall, great show - only downside being that its only 8 episodes.
You're going to be deeply disappointed then.
Nope.
The book makes this explicitly clear at the end, when Shadow meets the Scandinavian version of Wednesday.
EdibleExplosives
Member
I think they are symbolism for actual religions and belief systems
As a species, we've gone from worshiping deities to worshipping material things and to a larger extent ourselves.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Shows what I know. Also shows that I need to reread the book
Possible major spoilers for non-book readers, so if you're show only just avoid my post -
some space for mobile readers -
You know, after reading the book I thought Shadow was an aspect of
. But after reading a bit more about
in a book I have, I think he's an aspect of
, god of light and goodness. The billowy aura that Laura sees and is attracted to kind of gives it away, as
s.
some space for mobile readers -
You know, after reading the book I thought Shadow was an aspect of
Thor
Norse mythological figures
Baldur
Baldur is usually depicted with a halo like Jesu
Read Monarch of the Glen.
BigWeather
Member
I'm in the same boat. Sooooo tempted to read the book, but afraid I'll ruin my enjoyment of the TV show. Maybe I can just read his Norse Gods book to tide me over. That and Tad Williams has another Osten Ard book coming out next week. Still, what do book readers think, has it affected (positively or negatively) your enjoyment of the TV show?
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
No negative impact for me. There has been so much original content and moments that are more fleshed out in the show, that it might be one of the few cases where you won't be constantly comparing the book to the show in your head. I never sat down to watch an episode and knew what to expect. There are a few key moments I want to see done in live action, but I think the show has done enough of its own thing to justify existing.
The only thing I've really gotten from reading the book beforehand is context. So when the show starts getting wrapped up in itself, I know that it is (eventually) going somewhere.
Machspeed007
Member
This queen... she kept the party goin'
In my veins.
I need the OST on constant loop.
In my veins.
I need the OST on constant loop.
Machspeed007
Member
I have these:
The whole disco scene was amazing. The OST as well.
The whole disco scene was amazing. The OST as well.
DukeLongfellow
Member
Wait...
People are actually treating the Wednesday reveal as something big and surprising? I mean, it was pretty fucking clear it was Odin from the get go (him being called Wednesday) or at least since episode 2 (Chernabog calling him Wotan). When the reveal was done, I literally thought "Wow. Why go to all that drama to state what we already know?"
Not everyone knows mythology that well. I had no idea Wotan and Wednesday were other names for Odin.
Patrick Bateman
Member
I didn't understand the problem, either..