ViewtifulJC
Banned
orrrrrrrr, you're just incorrect.
Big shocker right there, since it's happen several times now.
Big shocker right there, since it's happen several times now.
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New Halo 4 Screenshots (Grunt new design revealed)
- Thread starter Plywood
- Start date
"personally, i'd also like to see a slight reduction in transparency, or some sort of predator-like light shift that makes someone holding still in camo slightly more visable to counter the counter(camo) snipers."
thats what i said.
thats (only part of) what i'd like to see with camo if it returns in halo 4. apparently i'm in the minority in thinking that the camo in reach is more difficult to see then past games and that is part of why its over-powered in reach. dont be a dick.
I don't only have a problem with the AAs themselves but the entire idea of every single player spawning with one makes me sad. 343 could add whatever they want to the game as long as people begin on an even playing-field. But no, they decided to go the Reach 2.0 route.
It's a shame really.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
How am i incorrect exactly? That people don't like abilities now cause going into a game where not everyone is using the same exact thing is somehow unfair?
thezerofire
Banned
people telling you you're wrong are doing so because you are objectively wrong. it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of you ignoring reality
There is the possibility of balanced AA's. Reach does not have them, and camo is an especially egregious offender. You can become invisible whenever you want, with the only disadvantage being a radar jammer and slightly decreased sound. That's not much of a disadvantage at all
First you said the Camo AA was an evolution of the power-up version, then you said they were exactly the same, then you changed the subject. Just throwing it out there.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
EazyB's alternate account
Silly.Mikey
Banned
In other Halo games like 3, you can walk with it normally and you stay completely invisible. But that was somehow ok since you have to go get it somewhere on the map.
Basically, "dont spawn anyone else with anything i dont have or else" is the big argument here.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Would it bother you if players had the option to spawn with a rocket launcher as their primary weapon?
Mike Dongblain's avatar was a picture of the joker....
One person having to work for a power-up > everyone spawning with permanent power-ups without any effort.
How do you not get this?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Dat new desktop.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Yes well selective reading will do that. The debate started by someone saying that the sniper and camo was unfair or something. I said that the camo power-up evolved into the ability yes, and that there is no difference in having people spawning with abilities since there only a certain amount of power weapons in use on the map anyway. You don't have 8 snipers, or 8 rockets, so it comes to exactly the same as it is now in Reach. You cant have a full team of camo players with power-weapons cause Reach doesn't even allow it.
Whether the camo appears on the map, or you spawn with it, it wont change the fact that getting shottied or sniped buy an invisible guy can and will happen. And in Halo3, the camo was invisible even when you walked full speed.
No, you're just missing the point here about why it isn't a balanced ability.
In other Halo games, you could not wait five seconds and get an additional thirty seconds of invisibility. You used the powerup and that was it. You had your advantage, but you were constrained by time. The fast recharge of the ability makes the Camo AA a completely different animal than the powerup in practice, regardless of what its action fundamentally is. The frequency with which a camouflaged opponent appears, or has the potential to appear, is orders of magnitude higher than with the restricted nature of a time-limited, long-respawn powerup. You couldn't jam people's radar (both friend and foe due to the bug, making it one of the most annoying AAs to have a teammate use) so they didn't know where you were while you were moving quickly - yeah, the radar jammer helps to give them a general area, but that argument falls apart as soon as the maps are not completely flat and have multiple vertical levels. The primary ability is paired to yet another useful secondary ability. That radar jammer is a complete bitch to deal with in objective gametypes because that pairing is complementary to each element, not detracting as you seem to think. The only downside is that you have muffled sound, but that's not really that big of an issue since at the range where Camo is most annoying, you're not relying on sound anyway.
It's not about people being against any starting ability. Nobody complains about Hologram, and they don't complain because it is without a doubt the most balanced, nondisruptive ability in the game, maybe the only one that they got perfectly right.
But anyway, continue to strawman away because we all hate abilities. That's definitely it, not that it's fundamentally imbalanced.
This is not a good argument. Would you rather have something annoying happen to you maybe once per game, or ten times per game? You don't want to take the frequency of that crappy player behavior into account because it diminishes your argument, but it is a huge factor whether you acknowledge it or not.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
One should never start a sentence with 'and'.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Camo is about 10 seconds long by the way. And people have been whining about every ability since gameinformer came out. Even the running one. But now suddenly its the balance of them, and in 10 minutes, it'll be the fact that games start unevenly, and in 20 minutes it'll be something different. People don't like change plain and simple. Thats the issue.
Edit: People dont bitch about the hologram cause the hologram doesn't kill you and no one uses it, thats why no one complains about it and as far as Ive noticed, camo doesn't recharge any faster then it drains.
NullPointer
Member
Yeah guys. Quit whining. Its all perfectly balanced, and even if it isn't, it still is. So there.
It is glaringly obviously you are quite clueless when it comes to balance.
Not to mention your response here does not particularly confront Havok's points, you are merely deflecting.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Ok balance it then. Make it so snipers arent invisible using it apparently.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
would that stop me from spawning with it?
Camo while crouched, as one would do when sniping or camping with a shotgun, lasts for 27 and a half seconds. I literally just timed it. When crouch walking, it lasts 20 seconds. While running, it lasts 15. That is using the Title Update gametypes, where camo time is reduced from vanilla - it used to be longer than that! So, no, ten seconds is wildly off, especially at its most annoying capacity, the one that people are arguing about. Nobody gives a shit about a running camo guy.
And have you spent more than a minute in the Reach thread since that game came out? The ENTIRE discussion is, and always has been, about the relative balance of abilities. Constant debates over how to balance each and make it work with regard to the game as a whole, the weapon sandbox, and other abilities. People might not like change, but that doesn't mean their arguments about why a very specific and controversial ability are invalid, especially when you're generalizing them down to silly strawman arguments. That might not be in line with what you want, but that is the case, flat out.
I have said this time and time again in these threads. People are not averse to change that is well balanced and executed. Many of the changes we have gotten are, and many are not. Guess which ones people take issue with.
Perfect way to balance it would be not to include it in the game. There, solution achieved, problem solved and the game is all the better for it. Nothing good ever came out of allowing players to spawn with a powerup like that.
ncsuDuncan
Member
As for the "deal with it" argument: if Active Camo is present in Halo 4 exactly how it is in Reach, I will be very unhappy.
But it won't be.
I trust 343 has learned from Reach's missteps and has properly balanced it. I still think pickups are better than AAs, but I can deal with it if AAs return. It's broken shit like Armor Lock that I can't deal with.
Camo balance suggestions:
- Zooming in makes you lose invisibility, just like running does. (That should take care of the camo sniper problem.)
- Standing still makes your AA energy deplete faster, not slower. Nobody cares about camo guys running around.
- No loss of audio. A clearly audible hum signals your camo use to nearby opponents. The more invisible you are, the louder the hum. This also gives you audio feedback - when you zoom in and become visible you know because you can hear the hum fade.
- No radar jammer effect.
But it won't be.
I trust 343 has learned from Reach's missteps and has properly balanced it. I still think pickups are better than AAs, but I can deal with it if AAs return. It's broken shit like Armor Lock that I can't deal with.
Camo balance suggestions:
- Zooming in makes you lose invisibility, just like running does. (That should take care of the camo sniper problem.)
- Standing still makes your AA energy deplete faster, not slower. Nobody cares about camo guys running around.
- No loss of audio. A clearly audible hum signals your camo use to nearby opponents. The more invisible you are, the louder the hum. This also gives you audio feedback - when you zoom in and become visible you know because you can hear the hum fade.
- No radar jammer effect.
NullPointer
Member
If devs actually listened to the likes of me we would never see a competitive game that allows for invisible snipers. Its just a bad idea, every time.
too much eslim
Member
I didn't know the camo AA was a big issue. Never had issues facing an opponent with it. Once I know there general location I take action immediate and kill the guy. Might be easier said than done depending on your skill level, but I never saw an issue with it. Armor Lock however is a problem, but it was taken out.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Like i said, ive got no problem with camo. You cant stop someone from using a certain weapon with a certain ability. If it were such a problem, you would see everyone using it all the time in Reach like armor lock was being used and you don't. I really think you are all completely exaggerating. You guys are acting as if its as bad as armor lock was/is and it isnt. Not even close.
I concur. I actually cannot remember the last game I played where someone used camo. That's probably because they removed it all the very competitive playlists.
If they wanted to solve numerous problems, just remove the sniper all together.....
NullPointer
Member
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Silly.Mikey
Banned
What question exactly do you want me to answer, i wouldn't want you to not sleep tonight.
I don't expect you to respond to any substantive discussion, since you haven't as of yet, despite being called out numerous times. I was merely pointing out that fact.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
So you dont really have anything to add then, you just wanna be noticed. Got it, i noticed you. Good day.
cevansdust
Neo Member
I personally have never had a problem with camo users. It's the amour lock that pissed me off. I'm sure this has been discussed a million times, but all the other load outs are used as a means of movement in my eyes. Jet pack to move vertically, sprint/roll to move faster, camo to move undetected (sort of), and even the hologram is used to create a diversion for moving in to attack or flee. But amour lock? Just a cheap ass tactic that completely breaks the flow of the game and the mechanics. If you use it....I hate you.
too much eslim
Member
Isn't the main weakness of camo is that you have to stay still? Just throw a grenade and start shooting randomly in the area where the camo guy would be, and aim low since the person is probably crouching.
thezerofire
Banned
Camo is fully invisible when you walk full speed in Reach too. It only looks different on your screen. I've responded to this claim before, let's see if you ignore it again
you don't, they changed that a while ago
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Well, ive seen people walking full speed and the camo flickered sooo....
I have had problems with camo snipers, a friend of mine needs about 1s to aim at your head and kill you one shot with the snipe which makes him a ridiculous good halo player...
Im not too bad myself at the game and like to do some matches with or against him sometimes, in halo3 and/or 2 I had a 50/50 chance to somehow outmatch him with clever play (meaning I see him first and I have until he knows where Im coming from to kill him or its over) now in reach with camo Im dead befor I know where the shot is coming from with NO chance to get him first...
(he is not stupid enough to stay in the same position, so the "when they kill me I just shoot in that direction next time" argument is invalid)
That said imo camo is only OP when somebody really skilled is using it so whatever.
Jetpack on the other hand brings me much more frustration, not because I loose against it all the time, more because a full team of Jetpack users makes almost every mapcontroll pointless...
Take for example Uncaged, lets say your team holds "the elbow" at the top corner, without jetpack you would teamshot players approaching from the sides and back down when you are oneshot.
You could still loose the position against a good team which uses the mancannon underneath or "top mid" position for clever surprise attacks.
With jetpack you just cant hold this or any other position since you can get shot from literally anyone anywhere on the map when he jetpacks stright upwards... (Meaning you cant back out when oneshot)
This doesnt make you loose the game when you focus down those jetpackers, but it makes it much more frustrating and... boring because you start playing "shoot the big flying target..." and you will at some point die to them however bad they are since they never stop coming and you cant recharge your shield...
Im not too bad myself at the game and like to do some matches with or against him sometimes, in halo3 and/or 2 I had a 50/50 chance to somehow outmatch him with clever play (meaning I see him first and I have until he knows where Im coming from to kill him or its over) now in reach with camo Im dead befor I know where the shot is coming from with NO chance to get him first...
(he is not stupid enough to stay in the same position, so the "when they kill me I just shoot in that direction next time" argument is invalid)
That said imo camo is only OP when somebody really skilled is using it so whatever.
Jetpack on the other hand brings me much more frustration, not because I loose against it all the time, more because a full team of Jetpack users makes almost every mapcontroll pointless...
Take for example Uncaged, lets say your team holds "the elbow" at the top corner, without jetpack you would teamshot players approaching from the sides and back down when you are oneshot.
You could still loose the position against a good team which uses the mancannon underneath or "top mid" position for clever surprise attacks.
With jetpack you just cant hold this or any other position since you can get shot from literally anyone anywhere on the map when he jetpacks stright upwards... (Meaning you cant back out when oneshot)
This doesnt make you loose the game when you focus down those jetpackers, but it makes it much more frustrating and... boring because you start playing "shoot the big flying target..." and you will at some point die to them however bad they are since they never stop coming and you cant recharge your shield...
show me your skeleton
Member
so apparently there's a halo 4 party going on right now. i'm not at this halo 4 party. 
New party or the one last night?so apparently there's a halo 4 party going on right now. i'm not at this halo 4 party.
From Wu (Halogaffer and HBO'er)
show me your skeleton
Member
ah, was last night then i guess. stupid @xbox for retweeting it now.
Bornstellar
Member
From community thread.
motherofgod.jpg
motherofgod.jpg
NullPointer
Member
Its gameplay.