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CliffyB on Saint’s Row: “Lose the gimps and dildos” to beat GTA

Whenever I've told people (both men and women) there's this GTA-like game where one of the melee weapons is a giant purple dildo, everyone's asked me about the name, platforms, etc. Far from being embarrassing, I think crass, tongue-in-cheek stuff like that actually generates interest and curiosity... then again I don't drive a Lambo.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think the rationalization that games can't be "stupid" like Saints Row because they somehow haven't matured enough yet is both contradictory and insecure. Kinda references the whole idea that the games industry is heavily pandering itself to every other form of established media and every medium questing for legitimacy, approval, or at least a pat on the head. Maybe so the people in the industry can feel better? I don't know.

Games exist, they are already a medium and a media. Every media has stuff like Saints Row, and the joke is that Saints Row is executed with more actual taste, refinement, and thoughtfulness in its humor than what would typically be thought of as "trash humor".

Also incredibly hypocritical to pick on something like Saints Row in an industry built on serving Americans their daily dose of the old ultraviolence and curb stomps. It really is true that America is f**ked in the head - sex and sexual references are forbidden and shameful, and "immature", while gore and violence have no limits. Shit's even called torture porn at the extreme - clearly, porn is OK once you make it about gore!

Whenever I've told people there's this GTA-like game where one of the melee weapons is a giant purple dildo, everyone's asked me about the name, platforms, etc. Far from being embarrassing, I think crass, tongue-in-cheek stuff like that actually generates interest and curiosity... then again I don't drive a Lambo.

If anything, Saints Row seems to be popular in part because it's a reaction to games taking themselves with incredible seriousness and trying too hard to win an oscar. It stands out precisely because it isn't more of the same. Why it's even funnier than CliffyB's advise is to make Saints Row just like every other generic, tryhard cop and gangster clone title.
 

shuri

Banned
Strangely enough, Saints Row has to be the most played game by females at my place. They loved all the clothing options (well in SR2), the tattoos, the cars mods, everything. The game is very easy to control if you are not used to gaming; and they just love how skanky everything is about the series.
 

Jarnet87

Member
I don't play Saints Row, but it seems to me the over the top humor and action is what keeps that fanbase buying the game. Wouldn't they just play GTA exclusively if they wanted something less crazy.
 
The reaction in this thread is ridiculous. Why is everyone so up in arms against CliffyB? What has he done to hurt you?

Strangely enough, Saints Row has to be the most played game by females at my place. They loved all the clothing options (well in SR2), the tattoos, the cars mods, everything. The game is very easy to control if you are not used to gaming; and they just love how skanky everything is about the series.

Oh really.
 

beje

Banned
Saints Row (specially The Third) has been the best stupid fun I've had this generation, so no. Add more dildoes, plz. And hookers. And exhibitionism. And terrorizing a neighbourhood with a quad in flames that makes everything around explode. And tanks. Everytime some people treat videogames as "serious business" the "NO FUN ALLOWED" pic comes to my mind.
 

ArjanN

Member
The difference is that the Dildo in SA you actually have to seek out and hunt down to get and isn't a selling point.

SR3? It was marketed in every single video and it's a reason i never bought SR3. I like the idea of how ridiculous the series is but gimps, giant dildo bats? That's not the kind of shit that is fun to me. That kind of shit makes me feel embarrassed that i am a gamer.

I felt GTAIV was more embarrassing than Saints Row the Third. GTAIV was still full of dumb dick jokes (like the tw@t internet cafe and pretty much every sign in the game) and it clashes horribly with the more serious tone of the main story.
 

Adam Blue

Member
I was surprised at Cliffy's comments. Not only is Saints Row 3 a fine game, but being over the top in that fashion is unique. Many have pointed out how in America we glorify violence and shy away from sex. It's true and pretty backwards, considering how much more enjoyable our culture would be if it was the other way around. Two trips to Brazil, and four Brazilians later, I can attest to that being the truth.

Anyway, my (Brazilian) wife is an old-school gamer, but she loves the Saints Row series and has played through the 3rd one. Embarrassed?!?! Unless he's having problems with his girl...

i8M4KBytNreae.PNG
 

JDSN

Banned
Creator of bland mass produced and focus tested product requests homogenization of gaming industry product. What a hack, my ex-gf loved the SR3 key I gave her during the humble bundle, compared to stuff like GTA IV and Army of Two 2, which she found stale and unfunny.
 

pargonta

Member
funny, usually people say gta needs to be more like saints row.

interesting reversal of theme... those "gta needs to change" folks can dish it out but not take it?

anyway, i actually don't agree with cliffy. the wackiness is indeed the charm.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Whenever I've told people (both men and women) there's this GTA-like game where one of the melee weapons is a giant purple dildo, everyone's asked me about the name, platforms, etc. Far from being embarrassing, I think crass, tongue-in-cheek stuff like that actually generates interest and curiosity... then again I don't drive a Lambo.

Yeah ehm.. Avatar is the best performing movie (at the box office) of all time.
I don't think people outside of gaming are necessarily all about maturity and serious business, unfortunately.
 

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
You can lose the dildo, sure, that doesn't stop it from being Saints Row. Trying to make it into a Micheal Mann movie makes it more of a GTA clone than any other sandbox game out there.
 

FGMPR

Banned
The thing that i have about this argument is that is pretty narrow to encompass a whole medium by it lowest representation. Is like basically saying that film is completely represented by the lowest of it presentation. I can see his argument because the games that are usually at the forefronts are the ones that usually don't represent any serious issues. That is not a bad thing. But it creates a bad perception of what can really be achieved.

Oh absolutely. But it is what it is, and as you alluded to previously, video-gaming has an uphill battle in perception in the wider non-gaming community due to the mechanics of gaming itself, especially when meshed with the recent trend of 'cinematic gaming'. I've played games like 'Cryostasis', 'Spec Ops: The Line' and 'Hotline Miami' and been truly impressed by these efforts to raise the bar in that fashion, but it's going to take a long time before games aren't being put-down artistically by the wider community. And again, as you allude to, its going to be really difficult whilst games like 'Call of Duty' take center stage.

It's unfair to paint everyone with the same brush, but a society-wide change in perceptions is a long, slow process.
 
The smartest stuff in Saints Row The Third was as far from cheap dildo jokes as you could get, so I'm confident Volition could absolutely make a game that was just as batshit insane as The Third whilst throwing out a lot of the stuff Cliffy is describing.

That said, Volition sure have a way with crudeness. I'll understand if one feels a giant dildo sledgehammer is too much, but what about the fucking huge naked Russian guy smashing through waves of dudes? THAT is funny. I don't think I'd like to see Volition censored, personally, they clearly know what they're doing.

And yes, the ridiculousness of Cliff "I put a chainsaw on a gun" Bleszinski saying all this is tough to ignore. Concentrate on your own contributions first, yeah?
 
If anything, Saints Row seems to be popular in part because it's a reaction to games taking themselves with incredible seriousness and trying too hard to win an oscar. It stands out precisely because it isn't more of the same. Why it's even funnier than CliffyB's advise is to make Saints Row just like every other generic, tryhard cop and gangster clone title.

This is an issue and by that I mean is that our community can't seem to accept that we can do more with the medium without being blasted of being "try hards". I wish there were more games that tackled serious issues. Doesn't mean that has to come at the expense of games like Saints row. I have yet to play Heavy rain, but I admire what he tries to do. If he failed, does that means that others or himself cannot try to tackle that effort. I say keep trying.
 

Angry Fork

Member
I think the point is dildo-type stuff is in the lowest common denominator of funny like fart jokes or old ladies falling down. That's something Spike TV people would think of at the VGA's, samuel l jackson comes out and yells something with bleeped out motherfucker because people don't seem to be sick of that yet, then he takes out a dildo, hits a game developer with it before he could finish giving his 10 sec thank you speech and the paid-to-be-there audience laughs because 'it's a dildo! LOLLL'.
 

Gong

Member
Keep the dildos, and make it even more silly IMO. Let's use the GAF collective for some fun this Friday and come up with good titles for the next Saints Row game instead! Mine is:

Saints Row 4: Gaping Justice.
 
2pmu4z.jpg


I don't think he should be using his wife's anecdotal experience as the ONE TRUE reaction everyone will get. Maybe his wife is just disapproving of silly open world action games, who knows?

As others have said, he sounds like a hypocrite. Dildos and gimps were in GTA San Andreas. Gears of War can come off as more embarrassing with the dialogue and the whole Dom/Maria bit in 2 that felt like a joke on sentimentality. MARIAAAAAAAA!
 

Patryn

Member
Saint's Row isn't trying to be a Michael Mann film, and it really shouldn't try to be one.

It's trying to be a Michael Bay film: Big, dumb, over-the-top, and fun.

It'll never "beat" GTA by trying to be GTA. Why would someone want a copy when the original is right there?

It's best chance for success is to just be its own thing. Calls for making it more "gritty" just miss the point.
 

Sqorgar

Banned
There were some moments in both SR2 and SR3 that made me cringe. In SR2, the main character is capable of such sadistic cruelty that there were sequences that were repulsive and hard to watch. This is juxtaposed against some of the most juvenile sequences and jokes I've ever seen in a video game. They toned that down in SR3, which I thought was a more tonally consistent game, but the end results were fewer high highs.

The problem with Saint's Row is that inconsistent tone. Is it a game where you can streak through a mall carrying a giant rubber dildo, or is it a game where you kidnap a character's girlfriend, lock her in the trunk of a car that gets crushed in a monster truck show? If the sex and violence is cartoonish, it should always be cartoonish.

Bleszinski is, perhaps, attracted to the less cartoonish violence and he feels that the cartoonish stuff is getting in the way. I'm the opposite. I think there should be less of the old ultraviolence and depravity in favor of cartoonishness. That being said, the writers are extremely hit or miss on their humor and either way, the game just feels like a stone soup of ideas from a bunch of exceedingly immature young men.

But I still love the series and welcome a Saint's Row 4.
 

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
Probably child trauma, father would come in late at night.. IT'S DILDO TIME.
Wow.., that isn't really funny at all, talk about bringing fhe topic down to a rather pathetic level just to mock someone you disagree with.

Koch media

:(

Why the sad face, going from a tweet that looks like it is from deep silver, they are going to have far more freedom with the series than they had before. Which is great after whoever it was from THQ sounded like he was going to try and turn SR into GTA4.
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
No, they need to keep Saints Row just as it is, that is what makes it so great.

I love playing with Dildo's.

Damn his wife is so fine.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
The humor in Saints Row The Third was much worse than in the second game.

Shit went too over the top imo lol.
 
Wow.., that isn't really funny at all, talk about bringing fhe topic down to a rather pathetic level just to mock someone you disagree with.



Why the sad face, going from a tweet that looks like it is from deep silver, they are going to have far more freedom with the series than they had before. Which is great after whoever it was from THQ sounded like he was going to try and turn SR into GTA4.

I am just concerned about the previous quality of Koch Media products.
 
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