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Microsoft Studios (& Partners) Current and Future Landscape
- Thread starter Banjo-Kazooie
- Start date
3 generations and that's what they have to show for studio building. Yikes. Easy to hide when you're ahead and can just pay to keep games off the competitor's platform, but not not so easy to hide when you're way behind in sales and can't lean on 3rd parties.
ForkNetwork
Banned
This makes me wonder...how would a new banjo do comercially nowadays? I would buy it immediately if its still a 3d plattformer, but I dont know about everyone else
Dangansona
Member
Yikes... Holding out hope for Rare and Platinum. Guess I need to get caught up on Halo too.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Yooka Laylee leads us to believe the market is there
Nightengale
Member
Well... let's wait and see how the game sells first.
Salty Hippo
Member
Not very well, but it's one of the few things from Microsoft with that "one more thing" power that can resonate with the hardcore gamers who watch E3 live. Just keep the budget low (at about Yooka-Laylee's level), charge $40 and focus on making a great game. They would make their money back or even turn a small profit at 100k copies sold.
And of course it would need to be a platformer. Bulding goodwill with the core and diversifying their pottfolio should be the goal with projects like that, not massive profits. That's something MS doesn't get and possibly never will.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Man I would love to see MS let 343i and The Coalition just go wild like ND went with TLOU. I bet for the people there who have been working on the same series over and over and over again, the passion they'd have to work on something completely creatively new would be immense.
Actually let a group of people (preferably the people who have been on Halo the longest) form a side team to work on the new IP while the newer guys work on Halo 6/Gears 5. I think this would only be a positive thing; the old guys get to exercise their creativity and expertise on something completely new and the team on the main IP consisting of mostly newer guys would hopefully breath some new life into the long-running series (kinda like how Nintendo has the young team working on some Mario games).
Actually let a group of people (preferably the people who have been on Halo the longest) form a side team to work on the new IP while the newer guys work on Halo 6/Gears 5. I think this would only be a positive thing; the old guys get to exercise their creativity and expertise on something completely new and the team on the main IP consisting of mostly newer guys would hopefully breath some new life into the long-running series (kinda like how Nintendo has the young team working on some Mario games).
The two full team approach sounds amazing on paper but is difficult to pull off in practice. As amazing as it would be for 343 and The Coalition to crank out Halo/Gears and new IP, it would be extremely unlikely. Best-case scenario would be the type of approach Guerrilla Games took with Killzone and Horizon. Have a small team conducting pre-production and prototyping while the bulk of the studio handles another game. Two full productions at one time would be quite a feat.
If I were in charge I'd do this...
343 is probably about 1.5 years from releasing Halo 6 so I'd let them do their thing while breaking off a small group of leads to plan a new IP. Since The Coalition just released Gears and Halo isn't terribly far off I'd use this opportunity to revive Shangheist which was conceived to be a major AAA new IP for the Xbox One and had at least a solid foundation in place. Having a game like Halo in the line-up can help alleviate the risk of a major new IP. Once Halo 6 releases in fall 2018, then 343 transitions to their new IP. The Coalition releases their new IP and then shifts to Gears 5.
Basically have the new alternate Gears /Halo and new IPs in a way that Microsoft doesn't have to go more than a year or two without one of their big established franchises.
If I were in charge I'd do this...
343 is probably about 1.5 years from releasing Halo 6 so I'd let them do their thing while breaking off a small group of leads to plan a new IP. Since The Coalition just released Gears and Halo isn't terribly far off I'd use this opportunity to revive Shangheist which was conceived to be a major AAA new IP for the Xbox One and had at least a solid foundation in place. Having a game like Halo in the line-up can help alleviate the risk of a major new IP. Once Halo 6 releases in fall 2018, then 343 transitions to their new IP. The Coalition releases their new IP and then shifts to Gears 5.
Basically have the new alternate Gears /Halo and new IPs in a way that Microsoft doesn't have to go more than a year or two without one of their big established franchises.
Unfortunately that goes directly against MS's philosophy, which is what separates them from someone like Sony in terms of giving their developers space.
343 and Coalition were created specifically because MS tried to force Bungie and Epic to continue making the same franchise for them over and over again.
Epic and Bungie both got tired. MS's brilliant idea was to just create two studios instead and make them do it
Nightengale
Member
Well, that comes with its own share of risk.
Ideally when crafting a new IP, you would want your best talent handling that. But that also means that the "in the meantime" game ( in GG's case Shadowfall) are led by newer, fresher talent that might not necessarily be as good as the other team. Some would say that Uncharted 3 and the "Amy Hennig's Uncharted 4" also fell victim to this.
Two project teams that share single resources also don't automatically mean faster releases. All it means is that the pre-production can afford to spend longer time in the oven. Risk is still there.
You say that as though Naughty Dog was built to be an Uncharted factory. It wasn't.
In Bungie's case, yes. Not in Epic's case. Microsoft secured the IP to prevent it from EVER coming to any other system, because Epic, at the time, was considering bringing the series to other systems.
Also, The Coalition was never built to be a Gears factory, it was made into one so that Microsoft had a studio that could handle the IP and its lore, much like 343 is the bastion for all things Halo.
This is from what I recall.
It also doesn't make sense for 343 Industries to work on any other IP. 343 isn't just the Halo dev team--their numbers include merchandise licensing, books, any potential movies and TV partnerships, etc. It's way more than simply a dev.
Also, I find it amusing that these conversations never entertain the possibility of people within the studio not wanting to make a new IP. The desire to do so is somehow assumed. And if the devs don't want to, Microsoft apparently has to force them.
Which is equally stupid.
This is true, which makes eve worse IMO. They were a new studio, working on a new IP and Microsoft shifted them into Gears, even changin the studio's name in the proccess.
At least Gears4 was good, but still..
They were asked if they wanted to. It wasn't forced, only encouraged.
Kazuo Hirai
I really want everyone to know how much more Titanfall 2 sold than Nioh. It was a staggering amount.
I love Microsoft's pc game like Age of Empire, But ask 4 is not realistic
This is true but the point its not this one.
MS made Coallition as a new AAA studio to make new things...and then Epic just drop off and Coallition became a Gears studio.
And I think the whole problem rely on this.
MS did a nice job last gen showing to third parties devs that Xbox was/is a good place to launch your games too, they did good deals for third party exclusives but they never put effort on first party studios.
It was a good strategy until mid last gen but after that the drought started to show off.
Relying on third parties when you are not the market leader anymore is hard.
Chobel
Member
Possibly. Rod was involved in BioShock...
Daybreaker
Banned
I guess we have to wait and see what they have install for us at E3. Still, it's a shame that MS's offerings are really slim and noticeable this generation.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Asking 343i to work on a new IP is like asking The Pokémon Company do the same. After all these years I don't get how people don't understand that. They will never do anything other than Halo since that's literally why they exist. They're MS's permanent Halo team, and this includes not just internally developed games, but publishing and overseeing external games, licensing/branding, and all non-game media (such as movies, TV shows, web shows, books, comics, everything). You get a job at 343i to work on Halo because that's the entire purpose of the studio, they're not some random studio that got "stuck". Hell, they're even named after a prominent Halo character.
As for The Coalition, while they weren't founded with the express purpose of being the stewards of the Gears franchise like 343i was for Halo, they did elect to become just that. While it may seem obvious folks would want to work on New and Exciting™ IPs, these are jobs we're talking about. Being a factory for a major 1st party IP means a hell of a lot of job security, more than your typical studio. Being the Gears team means that they're much less likely to get downsized, sold off, or shut down, which means everyone feels safer in their position. A new IP could be canceled at any moment - Gears 5 is guaranteed to be released.
As for The Coalition, while they weren't founded with the express purpose of being the stewards of the Gears franchise like 343i was for Halo, they did elect to become just that. While it may seem obvious folks would want to work on New and Exciting™ IPs, these are jobs we're talking about. Being a factory for a major 1st party IP means a hell of a lot of job security, more than your typical studio. Being the Gears team means that they're much less likely to get downsized, sold off, or shut down, which means everyone feels safer in their position. A new IP could be canceled at any moment - Gears 5 is guaranteed to be released.
This.. my guess is they were delighted to be asked to work on Gears of War.
mejin
Member
Nobody is asking for them to stop milk their usual ips, but to create new big ips too. I think people expect their few first party to introduce new ips too, that's all.
I really hope we get Sea of Thieves Xbox Preview very soon! I seriously didn't want to be done playing it when the Alpha ended.
Chobel
Member
The Pokémon Company does not develop games though, they're purely marketing and licensing.
Same here. The only exclusives I really feel like I'm missing out on is Scalebound and Forza Horizon. Just never played my Bone enough to justify keeping it.
Yeah, GameFreak develops the Pokémon games, and they make other stuff in between those fairly frequently...
But I still get your point
IncognitoPanda
Member
Pretty much. Not that 343i couldn't work on other IPs, or that other similar studios are working on several IPs. It's that 343i is created solely to take care of Halo. They treat Halo like Star Wars; they don't want it to end. Every person there exists so they can make more Halo.
If they suddenly don't want more Halo, then 343 will be gone. If MS wants another studio to make new IP, then they'll make or rent one, regardless of what's going on at 343.
343, Coalition and Turn 10 aren't going to drop Gears, Halo or Forza, they are not designed to do anything other than that. Why do you all think, that the developers are bored of these games? They wouldn't have taken a job there if that was the case. Look at Turn 10 they specialise in racing games, what does a new ip look like for them, the same thing with a new name. You could say why not a rally game or PGR, but why not just incorporate those into Forza a far stronger brand.
343 is not a studio, they are a halo company. Comics, movies, games, novels, merchandise, licensing, toy design, tv shows and more. If 343 switch the whole studio over to a new unestablished ip then what happens, to all the writers, artists, licensing teams, media directors and not to mention the dedicated halo marketing team or live team.
It's not as easy of a shift for 343, they specialise in shooters. Why can't they create a new ip within in the halo universe? Halo wars for example.
Coalition formerly Black Tusk was asked do you want to work on Gears with Rod, who would turn down that offer. A large budget, a highly experienced studio head and a established ip. Remember they were having issues internally with Shangheist, which was nothing more than CGI. It was the best thing to happen to the studio. Who's to say elements of Shangheist aren't incorporated in to gears??? I know it's almost as if it's a skin.
But I think the bigger thing to take from this is, this was a year when they bought Gears, Minecraft and Rise of Nations. And yet they were willingly to set up a new studio for Gears alone, if Black Tusk didn't want to take the ip. That shows money nor new studios is a issue, so why don't they open more studios? Because why would they it's not part of their second party strategy (Gears, Mass Effect, Halo, Lost Odyessy etc) But now this Gen they require ownership of the ip. So the issue of last Gen is solved.
Rare is the only first party studio you are going to get new ip from, some of you have to get use to the unpredictability of new ip only coming from second party. Judge first party by it's releases not it's studios. We are never going to know what second party are working with Microsoft at any time (Ori, SSOD, SOD, KI, Recore, Scalebound etc.) and with Phil's comments about not revealing games to early, we are going to be in the dark for even longer. We don't know a thing about their 2018 lineup other than Halo or Forza, but look at this year HW2, SOT, Scalebound, SOD, FM7, CD3, Ori 2 and PD-HD. That means more surprises at E3 each year.
But the most important thing is don't bring in your personal bias of a ip into this. You don't like Halo, Gears or Forza? well some one else does (Hint probably the people that work in dedicated ip studios)
343 is not a studio, they are a halo company. Comics, movies, games, novels, merchandise, licensing, toy design, tv shows and more. If 343 switch the whole studio over to a new unestablished ip then what happens, to all the writers, artists, licensing teams, media directors and not to mention the dedicated halo marketing team or live team.
It's not as easy of a shift for 343, they specialise in shooters. Why can't they create a new ip within in the halo universe? Halo wars for example.
Coalition formerly Black Tusk was asked do you want to work on Gears with Rod, who would turn down that offer. A large budget, a highly experienced studio head and a established ip. Remember they were having issues internally with Shangheist, which was nothing more than CGI. It was the best thing to happen to the studio. Who's to say elements of Shangheist aren't incorporated in to gears??? I know it's almost as if it's a skin.
But I think the bigger thing to take from this is, this was a year when they bought Gears, Minecraft and Rise of Nations. And yet they were willingly to set up a new studio for Gears alone, if Black Tusk didn't want to take the ip. That shows money nor new studios is a issue, so why don't they open more studios? Because why would they it's not part of their second party strategy (Gears, Mass Effect, Halo, Lost Odyessy etc) But now this Gen they require ownership of the ip. So the issue of last Gen is solved.
Rare is the only first party studio you are going to get new ip from, some of you have to get use to the unpredictability of new ip only coming from second party. Judge first party by it's releases not it's studios. We are never going to know what second party are working with Microsoft at any time (Ori, SSOD, SOD, KI, Recore, Scalebound etc.) and with Phil's comments about not revealing games to early, we are going to be in the dark for even longer. We don't know a thing about their 2018 lineup other than Halo or Forza, but look at this year HW2, SOT, Scalebound, SOD, FM7, CD3, Ori 2 and PD-HD. That means more surprises at E3 each year.
But the most important thing is don't bring in your personal bias of a ip into this. You don't like Halo, Gears or Forza? well some one else does (Hint probably the people that work in dedicated ip studios)
^ pretty much. 343, coalition, turn 10 have a purpose. If you want new ips, you'll get them from other places. EA needs a new madden, FIFA etc every year. Activision needs a new COD every year. They have studios established for that purpose. Don't look to them for new ips. They come from other places. MA has had a bunch of new IPs that you don't buy. So it's highly likely that you wouldn't buy a new IP from 343
Source on this? I've never seen that anywhere.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
Didnt take long for this to devolve into "How can MS be content with their exclusive lineup" thread again. :/
I am excited for these games, especially Sea of Thieves, Cuphead, Forza MS7, and Crackdown. E3 should show us more unannounced games upcoming from MS Studios, as usual.
I am excited for these games, especially Sea of Thieves, Cuphead, Forza MS7, and Crackdown. E3 should show us more unannounced games upcoming from MS Studios, as usual.
I don't know about issues but I'm pretty sure that Phil said Shangheist wasn't even really a game at the time. Just a concept. CBOAT was the one who said it was this great ip that was amazing etc. so who do you wanna go by
DriftingSpirit
Member
That is nice from MS' POV but it is obvious why that isn't appealing to some people like us. Indefinitely pumping out Halo and Gears may be good for their business but it isn't enticing me to jump into their ecosystem.
Yeah, there is obviously risk involved in making new IP but that is what I want from first party studios. That is the point in joining a big pub. You'll obviously have your key franchises that stand the test of time but it should also encourage creative and risky ideas.
Primethius
Banned
The problem with being a single IP factory isn't that new IPs are necessarily going to be big or even be successful.
It's that given MS's current first party situation, it's a limiting situation. You can sort of see that when 343 and Coalition became a 1 IP studio, it was during a time when Halo and Gears were expected to be massive IPs. But that's no longer the case. So now, you have two studios essentially limited to one IP each, in hopes that they can revitalize those sales figures to warrant being a 1 IP studio in the first place.
But maybe if 343/Coalition worked on a new IP, it might prove to be more successful in the current marketplace. There's no guarantee of course, but the chance is there given a proper marketing push. On the other hand, the chances of Halo and Gears reclaiming glory days sales wise is fairly low (the latter even more so).
And maybe a break in between that for a game like Halo or Gears would help give it the "it's been a long time" factor to get some more sales or a bigger push.
Well that completely contradicts what Phil said about it at E3 2013. He was claiming it would be the next Gears/Halo-level franchise.
CBOAT made comment that the game was 6 months behind development schedule only shortly before it was revealed at E3. Even then the game was mostly CGI.
From a polygon article
"The thing we showed at E3 last year, it was something that was done in Unreal and more of a concept piece," Spencer said, calling it "an asset" created by the team to get their creative juices flowing, not necessarily an in-development game.
"The studio has really been incubating different ideas over the past six to nine months on what they might work on," he said, "but the discussion with Epic obviously didn't start yesterday. We've been in this discussion for a while. The leadership team there has known for a while."
He was hyping it up. He also hyped up Recore in 2015 as the next game to join the trinity. Look how that turned out
DriftingSpirit
Member
Agreed.
IGN:
Source
"In a post-reveal interview, Microsoft President of Interactive Entertainment Business confirmed to Geoff Keighley that a new game from developer Black Tusk would be revealed at E3 2013."
Source
"Black Tusk is one of five new Microsoft-owned studios working on exclusive games, and according to Microsoft, its first game will be an "icon" that will define this generation."
That is what second party studios are for. Some of you really don't get it, it doesn't matter if they own the studio or not it matters if they own the ip. This weird bias people have towards first party studios over second party is dumbfounding. I thinks it's because people don't like not knowing or the unpredictability of it all or if I want to be cynical it's because it allows for a point of argument on Neogaf.
speedomodel
Member
Would like to see more first party studios....pretty disappointing to see the closed studio list too
I know 343 won't do non Halo stuff but with 450 developers they should be doing more than just 1 mainline Halo every 3 years. I'm not saying they should go and make a new IP because that's not happening, but why not something else in the Halo franchise? Halo Kart? Halo MMO-lite like destiny?
1 mainline Halo game every 3 years from a dev team of 450 is a joke. Sledgehammer has 225 and they put out a CoD every 3 years, and that'll be including non devs too.
Or take like 150 of them, build a new studio for them and have them put out a new IP. That gives MS another studio and another new IP to add to their portfolio. Hell it wouldn't even cost that much more cause they're already paying their salary anyway.
1 mainline Halo game every 3 years from a dev team of 450 is a joke. Sledgehammer has 225 and they put out a CoD every 3 years, and that'll be including non devs too.
Or take like 150 of them, build a new studio for them and have them put out a new IP. That gives MS another studio and another new IP to add to their portfolio. Hell it wouldn't even cost that much more cause they're already paying their salary anyway.
wapplew
Member
I think unpredictability have nothing to do with it. Sony/Nintendo do bunch of second party development too, nothing wrong with that.
For me, I prefer console manufacturers make long term investment on game development (invest on first party studio) than short term investment (invest on project).
343 is not just a game development studio. They oversee the entire Halo franchise, from books to videogames to movie deals.
They're effectively working on everything that has the Halo brand.
Nightengale
Member
There's absolutely nothing dumbfounding with a bias towards first-party studios. It gives a degree of reassurance and longer-term confidence in consistency of projects being worked on.
Nintendo, for one, is a very good example. Their internal stable of developers that regular releases top-notch games is what Nintendo fans place their faith on.
The staff does work on other stuff besides mainline games. Like they just did forge for the PC as well as helping out creative assembly with Halo wars 2. So continuing support of Halo 5, halo forge on PC, halo wars 2 support, also development on Halo 6. They aren't just sitting around