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LittleBigPlanet delayed over Qur'an "expressions" (shipping Oct. 27th US; Nov 3rd EU)
- Thread starter boco77
- Start date
TheHeretic
Banned
AmMortal said:
You were defending it being taken out pages ago ffs. YOU saw it as an offense.
Stop calling everyone bigots, especially when your camp has been defending stoning people and beating women.
Miburou said:
Oh crap, that came out the wrong way. :lol
Off course, if they removed it, I think that Sony did an awesome thing. A lot of Muslim are now into LBP.
TheHeretic said:
Did you even read my posts on "beating" women and stoning?
The word iḍribūhunna comes from the root daraba ( ضرب. The word has been used many times in the Quran to mean: to hit, to travel the earth, to set up, to condemn. Thus many scholars have taken it to mean " Seperating, or condemning your spouse". As hitting, someone you love, is at its core against Islam. The Prophet Muhammad said :
The best of you are those of you, who are the best to their wives
TheHeretic
Banned
AmMortal said:
Did you read your buddy Castle007's post? Your defense is what, mistranslation? Give me a break.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Butbutbut Nsider > Jasser. Nsider represents all Muslims, Jasser just his own opinion, etc. *spin*m0dus said:
TheHeretic
Banned
AmMortal said:
For every person that claims the word has another meaning there will be someone who beats their wife and justifies it with that verse. I don't particuarly care what the word means, people will make it whatever they want to make it. The use of the word "obey"(and its Islamic equivalent) to describe a marriage is disgusting enough.
I didn't know about this song or the artist before this whole thing. I only found out about him here in GAF.
So, I contacted him explaining in detail what the song contains and why he, as a devout Muslim, shouldn't be singing Quran phrases with music. After a couple of days he replied and said he'll change the song (the one that was in LBP).
As I said, great guy.
So, I contacted him explaining in detail what the song contains and why he, as a devout Muslim, shouldn't be singing Quran phrases with music. After a couple of days he replied and said he'll change the song (the one that was in LBP).
As I said, great guy.
Chû Totoro
Member
What's his label ? Is it a Sony, Columbia... one ?Jaeyden said:
Last Album release was on Nonesuch Records.Chû Totoro said:
guggnichso
Banned
m0dus said:
Listen to this man, he's so right, I want to have his babies.
Chû Totoro
Member
Ok. I've checked and if I'm correct it's A Warner Group label so the artist have nothing to worry about his royalties.No45 said:
And maybe at the contrary this thing will make him more famous...
I'm sad that we have to do such things because some are offended by "little" details.
But I can understand that they at least have the right to say what they think about it, what I don't understand is why it's MM or Sony's pb since it's the artist that chose to express his talent this way.
People who are disagree with that should just discuss it with the author and maybe they'll understand why he used those phrases in his song's lyrics.
Dr. Jasser obviously knows nothing about what kind of game LittleBigPlanet is. He knows nothing about context of the song or the lyrics. This isn't about freedom of speech. It's obvious MM didn't put that song in the game to send a message or anything. They were actually surprised to hear what the words actually were, and when they found out they immediately prepared a patch but Sony decided to pull the game. So this whole "freedom of speech" argument doesn't fly.
This isn't anything like the Resistance FoM controversy were the church was an integral part of the game. The song in LBP was an unintentional mistake. If it was something obviously intentional, I (personally) wouldn't even bother to contact Sony about it and would just not buy the game if it offends me, and chalk it under freedom of speech.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13310510&postcount=2474
This isn't anything like the Resistance FoM controversy were the church was an integral part of the game. The song in LBP was an unintentional mistake. If it was something obviously intentional, I (personally) wouldn't even bother to contact Sony about it and would just not buy the game if it offends me, and chalk it under freedom of speech.
Already did:Chû Totoro said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13310510&postcount=2474
3rdamention
Member
Throughout all the bickering and back and forth arguments in this thread, I have taken one thing from this discussion.
M. Zuhdi Jasser, M.D is the freaking man!!!
M. Zuhdi Jasser, M.D is the freaking man!!!
Not sure how this fits in with Nsider's communications with the singer, but the BBC had a report on this on last night's news at ten, relayed by Eurogamer here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=264251
The BBC reporter has his own blog on the issue here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/10/a_hard_headed_decision.html
(As he himself says, though, this was really just a hard-headed business decision rather than anything to do with actually respecting religious sensibilities).
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=264251
The BBC reporter has his own blog on the issue here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/10/a_hard_headed_decision.html
(As he himself says, though, this was really just a hard-headed business decision rather than anything to do with actually respecting religious sensibilities).
ymmv said:
I can understand you very well when you say Im a slave to my religion, but I must let you know that my point in reading further info about the religion isnt due to me trying my best to rationalize something blindly, but rather to see if there are things that make sense behind it more - ultimately leading to a better understanding of it (gosh I have never used the word understanding so much before in my life.) As for my 'defense' of stoning, maybe I didnt make it clear enough but im not trying to defend stoning and advocate it, im just saying that, within Islam, those who earn such a thing as stoning can only earn it in a very specific manner that is nearly impossible. I just want you to consider the chances of being witnessed by four people + committing adultery + knowing that it can lead to execution before you do it + being a Muslim. When you realize that these four conditions MUST happen in correlation - do you see how hard it is for anyone to earn such a punishment?
By the way, I have heard there are countries which use such a system of punishment in the name of Islam without the use of four witnesses, that is absolutely wrong and I will look into a case or two when I get some free time. But such cases are wrong and barbaric as they follow a system not based on Islam, rather they take advantage of something rooted in Islam and twist it towards a direction they want.
Also, did I say "if you dont agree with the tenets of the Quran then the problem must be you?" If I did, I apologize for I would not have meant it the way it sounded - in actuality, I would actually not find one little thing wrong with you if you put the effort to research a certain ruling in the Quran well - and then disgaree with it.
I agree that you can never learn enough about a religion - but i think that the more you look into a religion (or even better, religionS) you get a good grasp about things you never imagined about religion before.
As for Islamic belief, it is believed that Muhammad was a messenger who was responsible in delivering the message of Islam. This topic is big in itself, though there are a lot of explanations as to what happened and why in the Quran itself. As for what you stated about infallible texts, the Quran that we use today is the one and only Quran that was ever available - not a single modification as far as Muslims know. There are no newer versions of it ever since its existence. Also, in Islam we believe in the message that Moses and Jesus among others delivered, and as for Muslims, chronologically speaking, the Quran was the last major holy book that came and was never modified since. One of the worst sins that a Muslim can commit is meddle with the Qurans content in any shape or form, and Muslim scholars until this very day continue to look out for the preservation of the Quran. There is a lot of info to be told about the Quran, but rather than focus my efforts solely on this issue, I will discuss the other points you mentioned as well - unless you had some interest in me explaining more points about the Quran (or anything I say, for that matter) - then a PM will do. I am not too familiar with the other stuff you mentioned at the conclusion of your message - but I will, however, tag that link you provided me with, look into it, and get back to you through a PM or so once I do.
Xenon said:Fady K -
posted out of respect
AmMortal said:This.
You guys are too kind
RandomVince said:
I very much agree with what you say in the paragraph, and its quite interesting honestly. And I -especially- agree with you that many people who believe in religion take it for granted - I know many people around me just like that. I think it wasnt too long ago when I decided to look into the stuff myself rather than just listen to what people tell me - and my God what a difference it made. I felt like I lived a lie to tell you the truth - not saying my belief is right and yours is wrong - im saying that the amount of stuff I learned in contradiction to what I was tought was mindblowing. And btw - I also agree with how you say it is better to look at religious matters when one is old enough to decide and compare based on what info is available. I think this whole post of yours is full of sense, interesting, and amazing. Good read man
EviLore said:
EviLore, you are 100% correct in what you say. But please let me tell you that Islam does not defend wifebeating in anyway, and what castle007 was referring to when a Muslim husband is permitted to hit his wife (lightly, and NOT on the face which isnt allowed whatever the circumstance) is at SUCH an outrageous situation that it simply wouldnt happen. What would drive a GOOD man to hit his wife? Certainly nothing, right? And as far as I know, none of the Muslims I know who *follow* Islam has EVER had to resort to that, and dont plan to either. You must realize that this is a case considered at a terribly EXTREME rate that is NEAR-IMPOSSIBLE. And just to let you know, unlike the popular misconception that many believe, Islam puts the role of women at a higher level than men can EVER achieve - specially mothers and wives. Since we spoke about this "wife beating" matter in a manner that caused you to think the way you did in your post that im replying to - Im sorry if it caused any misunderstanding, im just here to let you know that Islam condemns the abuse of women in every way, and discourages the beating of a wife except on an extreme level that, if you actually saw just how extreme, youd realize that youd most likely have had to marry a sick psychopath for a wife in order for you to beat her "once" and NOT on the face. I hope I made the idea of how it is in Islam clearer to you.
Cheeto said:
Just read my reply to EviLore. "youd most likely have had to marry a sick psychopath for a wife in order for you to beat her "once" and NOT on the face" - at a situation like THAT, then Id feel sorry for him, not his wife. But what are the chances of us marrying someone like that who will also piss us off to such a point that it breaks our control down? Not very likely. At all. And besides, "disciplining" of adult woman doesnt start with hitting in Islam AT ALL. It is a LAST resort that barely ANYONE would ever reach - if anyone ever reached it at all from the true followers of the religion. Sure you have some dumb pieces of shits who supposedly are Muslim that abuse such a ruling and somehow pretend that hitting is permitted outright. But its not. Actually, youd fall asleep while reading just how MUCH you have to discipline your wife through kindness and tenderness in Islam. "Hitting women" is out of the question in a less-than-one-truly-messed-up marriage which I hope none of us in GAF go through - and would be even rare in such a case. So to sum up - Islam does not encourage the abuse of a spouse or a woman in ANY way.
TheHeretic said:
I dont mean to sound like a smartass - not my intention I came off as one - but can you show me proof of this since you know it?
TheHeretic said:
Please read my reply to Evilore.
moe_81 said:
Yes. A lot of the negative stuff people believe is about Islam is rooted in the culture of some Muslims which is WRONG and not Islamic religion itself.
jett said:
Jett, you're talking about another religion here. Islam is nothing about hitting women, and doesnt encourage it. If you get the time, read through the explanations, and not just the "hit women", cause otherwise you would be looking at a completely different and wrong picture of the religion.
Morph-0 said:
WOW. Your post is so damn awesome!! And thanks for the link - HOPEFULLY people who are not aware of it will give it a watch sometime!
TheHeretic said:
I would think this is a fitting answer:
m0dus said:
And TheHeretic, religion was not designed to be changed through time. So heck, 25th century even? No problem. Religion is not supposed to change through time - SURE, peoples thoughts do change, but the religion doesnt. Because Islam wasnt designed exclusively for when it was first introduced, it was designed as something to guide Muslims of all generations.
BTW Modus thanks for the article.
Nsider said:
Is he changing it??? And was it your message that he replied to??? If so holy shit, that was unexpected at all! Now im definitely starting to think he didnt know about the using of verses being wrong before
Fady K said:Is he changing it??? And was it your message that he replied to??? If so holy shit, that was unexpected at all! Now im definitely starting to think he didnt know about the using of verses being wrong before
Yes where is that Diabate quote from? Is he changing the song just for LBP?
TheHeretic
Banned
Fady K said:
Its in the Koran somewhere, i'm not exactly a big reader. In financial matters a womans testimony is worth half of a mans, the treatment of rape also heavily favours the perpetrator (almost always men).
Fady K said:
And thats why the Koran mentions lashing, the sky being a giant dome around the Earth and the Earth being flat. Its a period piece, incompatible with modern knowledge and values.
freethought
Member
I saw a piece on the 10 o'clock news last night (BBC). The Resistance fiasco came up there too. Still, lots of free advertising.
Oh, and wow at this thread, just wow.
Oh, and wow at this thread, just wow.
Count Dookkake
Member
freethought said:
Says someone named 'freethought.'
And i found out that the reason for that in islam is because the women is not good in the financial stuff, and she always forget.TheHeretic said:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholarFady K said:
From the Quarn:
If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.) (Al-Baqarah 2:282)
And the women testimony in crimes does not count:
The exclusion of woman's testimony, altogether, from cases of major crimes, and cases requiring retaliation in kind, is meant to protect women and steer her away from scenes of crime and aggressions against souls, honor and property. It is frequent, for instance, to see a woman closing her eyes, or running away in panic from a scene of bloodshed; therefore, it becomes difficult for that woman to give a reliable account of the crime.
So i learned from the site that the women testimony in islam :
Financial : 2 women =1 man
Crimes : She cant .
feminine affairs: 1 woman= 1 man
Valkyr Junkie
Member
RuGalz said:
Did they have to override the purchase?
sonycowboy
Member
RuGalz said:
My Wal-Mart store manager wanted to protect the company from any potential lawsuit :|
Jackass.
if you're wondering, here is what caused all of this (spoilers if you don't want to see the level)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dM_e05ADio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dM_e05ADio
TheHeretic said:
I never spoke about what is justified and what wasn't, read my posts a second or third time if you have comprehension issues. I pointed out the obvious, that you can't compare the situation between using the Quran in a song (which many religious Islamic songs DO), and a book that is considered blasphemous. The reaction will be completely different. To claim that they will be similar is laughably ridiculous.
And I've never said anything about "they offended us"...again I think you need to read my posts over and think about them if you have having troubles grasping what I'm saying here. I'm assuming that you have comprehension issues, rather than you simply attempting to put words in my mouth, as a service to you.
TheHeretic said:
The fact that you apply the actions of a handful of Muslims (I believe 12 or so were arrested for burning an embassy) to the entire population of 1.5 billion Muslims, speaks volumes of your ignorance.
ymmv said:
You think it's "peculiar" because you don't understand it? The logic is extremely clear. No graven images because they shouldn't be worshiped. Idols came about because people had images and statues of their parents, grandparents, and they thought that the way to talk to God was through them, and then over time those images became targets of worship. It's a very clear explanation as to why images of people or animals in Islam have been subdued, and only restricted to medical books written hundreds of years ago.
Secondly, you are wrong about the Taliban destroying statues, they were actually protecting those statues until an American NGO came in and spent millions to restore them, and angry Afghan villagers shot at them. True, the Taliban did little when they found out it was an American NGO, but you're completely wrong in claiming they wanted to tear down these historical monuments because they represented a certain history.
Lilsnubby said:
This is the sort of ignorant thinking that got Sony in trouble in this situation.
Miburou said:You know what's funny? I had 5 different people listen to the song (all of whom can be described as sensitive Muslims) and none found it that offensive, and these are people who found the Mohammed cartoons very offensive.
Sony was just being a pussy (and the guy who complained was an asshole, which leaves the retailers who are holding out on the game as the pricks
That's because the cartoon's were designed specifically to offend Muslims, and this song in LBP was designed to celebrate Islamic beliefs.
Of course they weren't offended and of course Sony over-reacted. All Sony had to do was contact Muslim organizations and ask. Could have saved themselves a recall.
ilanna said:
She can hit him with stones *rimshot*
EviLore said:
I don't see how you could consider that wife-beating at all. Have you EVER been to a women's shelter? How can you compare a slap on the ass with your wrist (which is what it literally is) to the beating or hitting of women?
READ HIS POST AGAIN, HE WASN'T CONDONING THE HITTING OF WOMEN. You totally jumped the gun there. Maybe to you, someone who doesn't know what he's referring to (in regards to the slapping of the ass with your wrist) you may think that this means actually hitting your wife. That was what he was attempting to clarify in his post. You didn't read his post well enough to see that.
TheHeretic said:
It doesn't mention the sky being a dome around the earth and the earth being flat, it refers to the earth being an egg shape.
So yeah, you shouldn't be posting here at all until you educate yourself.
Seems like you are the one incompatible with modern knowledge, and by modern I'm speaking about a book written 1400 years ago.
donkey show
Member
Dude, it's been 4 days since the last discussion... c'mon.
TheHeretic
Banned
FightyF said:
The only reason you thinks thats true is because you fail at objective reading.
BlackGoku03
Member
My store never got it in unfortunately.sonycowboy said:
Still, I would think it'd be in the system if the release date was the 21st. Oh well. As soon as I see them get shipped in by UPS, I'm buying it.