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SpartanN92 · Oct 28, 2013

unwound said:
For your analysis to hold, it requires the fundamental products themselves to be comparable. The situation we may have here, going from cboat's revelations and jackfrag's recent tweet, is an offering with inferior hardware, a substantially paywalled software environment, and an extra $100 price tag to boot. It certainly helps MS' cause to remove some of the objectionable aspects, but it's not enough if the product itself isn't up to scratch.

The bottom line is that engaging in competition and actually being "competitive" are two different things.

XBO IS a "Comparable" product... They will both provide relatively the same experiences and games (Albeit with resolution differences that are not deal breaking for most).

Pay wall services seem to only be a problem here. Never have I heard somebody say "Not getting Xbox because I can't watch youtube for free" except for hardcore enthusiast sites. If Youtube or Netflix were your deal breakers, you weren't buying the console for games anyway.

That extra $100 isn't just $100 extra dollars. You are still receiving a product for that additional cost...With 20 some odd million Kinects sold that is not some throw away thing. It may not be desirable to you or other gaffers, you can't deny that it is a product that a large portion of the market wants to some extent.

The console is "Competitive" just not to your particular interest at the present time.

Gaz_RB · Oct 28, 2013

viveks86 said:
This.

That.

SquiddyCracker · Oct 28, 2013

It does sound like the Xbone was meant to release in 2014 rather than this year, and now MS are scrambling to try to catch up with Sony (thus the buggy software, and limited number of launch countries).

Xevious · Oct 28, 2013

Verendus said:
Do you understand the full implications of trying to implement a similar DRM system to Microsoft? Especially in regards to some of the markets where SCE operates and gets a substantial amount of marketshare? And I could go on and on and sound even more condescending.

The fact that people still say this when the head of SCE has basically said it was never even an option just amazes me. Not to mention, how idiotic someone has to be to believe that SCE were still not decided as late as February as to what to do with DRM, neglecting how much of a ball ache it would be to try and implement something like that as a last minute thing.

You're free to believe though.

Head of SCE has said something which paints his financially troubled company in a good light. There's no way it can't be true!

/s

DR3AM · Oct 28, 2013

is it true that party chat isn't build in anymore for the xbox one? now its just an app?

SwiftDeath · Oct 28, 2013

Haven't seen anyone advertise my services on this page yet

THREAD SUMMARY SINCE OP

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=87786946#post87786946

Added Offtopic tidbits at the bottom for some other things that have been said in here

WoolyNinja · Oct 28, 2013

dosh said:

I love this site - you guys are all awesome!

Krisprolls · Oct 28, 2013

bGanci said:
PS4 is More powerful than the X1...But has no unique innovation. In my personally opinion is the only pro to the PS4 over X1...Xbox One is much more appealing to me...This is only my Opinion.

Yeah Xbox One looks so appealing now, I feel the same. I mean 100$ more for 50% less gpu power, 720p games, Kinect, probably no 1st party after a few years and now non working online. Plus, DRM could come back and that would be great.

I mean what's not to love ?

hwateber · Oct 28, 2013

Khalifa Jayy said:
Damn does he sit around and respond to all tweets? Lol. He's got some time on his hands. We love you Shu

I like that Shu's tweets are short and to the point. Forget 140 characters, he gives straight yes and no answers most of the time which is a huge contrast to what we see from other execs and "journalists"

Beer Monkey · Oct 28, 2013

todd360 said:
All of these people also seem to think that if Microsoft were to leave gaming sony would immediately turn evil drm scheming mastermind like Microsoft as well. I'm not saying Sony wouldn't make any mistakes but it seems to me that the gaming division actually loves and respects its consumers. You could see it at E3 when jack tretton was talking about ps4.

I'm certainly not saying Sony would do X or Y if Microsoft were to leave the business.

However, only a goddamn fool would not realize that the competition Microsoft is providing is essential for this industry and forces Sony to do Very Good Things (like launch at $200 less than last gen, like adding cross-title chat, improving PSN and PS+, and so on). Especially since Nintendo has specifically chosen to NOT compete in current hardware generations.

Sony fanboys should be eternally grateful for the Xbox systems.

Massa · Oct 28, 2013

Verendus said:
Do you understand the full implications of trying to implement a similar DRM system to Microsoft? Especially in regards to some of the markets where SCE operates and gets a substantial amount of marketshare? And I could go on and on and sound even more condescending.

The fact that people still say this when the head of SCE has basically said it was never even an option just amazes me. Not to mention, how idiotic someone has to be to believe that SCE were still not decided as late as February as to what to do with DRM, neglecting how much of a ball ache it would be to try and implement something like that as a last minute thing.

You're free to believe though.

Shuhei said as much back when they announced the PS4. People just got so convinced for months "of course Sony has to do it too!" that they erased that from existance.

Dragon · Oct 28, 2013

DR3AM said:
is it true that party chat isn't build in anymore for the xbox one? now its just an app?

What was outlined in mortimer's blog post was that for some unknown reason each game is managing that on its own now vs. the built-in api that was done on the 360. Why would they do this? No one knows.

Dunlop · Oct 28, 2013

silver.tongue said:
Why does it have to be innovative market-wise?
You would like your PS4 to have an always-online requirement?
What about once every 24 hours?
Digital only? Even with games beeing 40Gb or more?

I would have like to have seen to end result of their digital library and sharing, if it was all lies and slander that the market would react and they would be forced to abandon.

However if it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and the market reacted positively then Sony would have needed to adapt

competition is cool

Why do we want boxes that do the same thing? There are so many people wanting a Kinectless SKU even though this is probably the last thing that makes the XB1 different?

I imagine there is truth to the OP and I think MS deciding to change their policies at the 11th hour played a large part

They should have stuck with the vision and rolled the dice ; )

I am definitely a minority in that I 100% would have purchased a XB1 with the original vision and will now most likely just stick with the PS4 as MS continues to flop around. by mid gen I found having a PS3 and 360 was pretty pointless as they were so similar so I will not repeat the process

KORNdoggy · Oct 28, 2013

Bryan Newman said:
With 20 some odd million Kinects sold that is not some throw away thing. It may not be desirable to you or other gaffers, you can't deny that it is a product that a large portion of the market wants to some extent.

the problem is, they wanted it, and they got it. selling the same thing these people already have to them again is going to be a hard sell, just like it was for nintendo. these casual devices have limited appeal. millions baught the wii on novelty and then proceeded not to use it. same happened with kinect...why would even a fraction of those people want to rush out and buy a console, for more...for the sake of yet another kinect...2.0 or not.

JetBlackPanda · Oct 28, 2013

Beer Monkey said:
I'm certainly not saying Sony would do X or Y if Microsoft were to leave the business.

However, only a goddamn fool would not realize that the competition Microsoft is providing is essential for this industry and forces Sony to do Very Good Things (like launch at $200 less than last gen, like adding cross-title chat, improving PSN and PS+, and so on). Especially since Nintendo has specifically chosen to NOT compete in current hardware generations.

Sony fanboys should be eternally grateful for the Xbox systems.

this is good. real good.

this thread keeps delivering.

Crimson_Gold · Oct 28, 2013

Krisprolls said:
Yeah Xbox One looks so appealing now, I feel the same. I mean 100$ more for 50% less gpu power, 720p games, Kinect, probably no 1st party after a few years and now non working online. Plus, DRM could come back and that would be great.

I mean what's not to love ?

It doesn't come in white

bGanci · Oct 28, 2013

Krisprolls said:
Yeah Xbox One looks so appealing now, I feel the same. I mean 100$ more for 50% less gpu power, 720p games, Kinect, probably no 1st party after a few years and now non working online. Plus, DRM could come back and that would be great.

I mean what's not to love ?

Congratulations everything but the power difference is all speculation. Wait for the console to come out...My apologies for have my own dam opinion.

Mondy · Oct 28, 2013

Dragon said:
What was outlined in mortimer's blog post was that for some unknown reason each game is managing that on its own now vs. the built-in api that was done on the 360. Why would they do this? No one knows.

It screams executive oversight, in my opinion. If people who have no fucking idea what they're doing are calling the shots, major fuck ups are bound to happen.

Beer Monkey · Oct 28, 2013

Krisprolls said:
Yeah Xbox One looks so appealing now, I feel the same. I mean 100$ more for 50% less gpu power

33% less, approximately. 50% more = 33% less. It's a math thing.

miDnIghtEr20C · Oct 28, 2013

SwiftDeath said:
snip

So basically both consoles have problems but everyone is saying it's ok for Sony they'll be ok, but death to MS and the console is so messed up.

SwiftDeath · Oct 28, 2013

Dunlop said:
I am definitely a minority in that I 100% would have purchased a XB1 with the original vision and will now most likely just stick with the PS4 as MS continues to flop around. by mid gen I found having a PS3 and 360 was pretty pointless as they were so similar so I will not repeat the process

People would've bought the XB1 under its original policies, just by MS's internal estimates not enough to warrant keeping them

miDnIghtEr20C said:
So basically both consoles have problems but everyone is saying it's ok for Sony they'll be ok, but death to MS and the console is so messed up.

Have you read the entire summary?

We have posts by verendus and liquidmetal that the PS4 growing pains are the normal kind

The ones described of the XB1 are most certainly not

viveks86 · Oct 28, 2013

Xevious said:
Head of SCE has said something which paints his financially troubled company in a good light. There's no way it can't be true!

/s

Are you being facetious or just plain slow? How about reading Nightengale's follow up post before making such inane comments? Try backing up your argument with something beyond sarcasm and we can continue this discussion.

Boke1879 · Oct 28, 2013

Xevious said:
Head of SCE has said something which paints his financially troubled company in a good light. There's no way it can't be true!

/s

Again, believe what you like, but nothing has pointed to Sony ever doing anything like that.

gamechanger87 · Oct 28, 2013

miDnIghtEr20C said:
So basically both consoles have problems but everyone is saying it's ok for Sony they'll be ok, but death to MS and the console is so messed up.

Exactly.

BlazingDarkness · Oct 28, 2013

bGanci said:
Congratulations everything but the power difference is all speculation. Wait for the console to come out...My apologies for have my own dam opinion.

You forgot the price, too.
Which is probably the biggest dealer breaker for 90% of potential customers.

NullPointer · Oct 28, 2013

Beer Monkey said:
Sony fanboys should be eternally grateful for the Xbox systems.

To an extent, but it cuts both ways, as its now a standard to pay a subscription fee for multiplayer.

But hey, is there any news on all of this coming? ResolutionGate, OSGate?

Or is everybody here just slowly shaking their heads and staring at Microsoft with pitying and incredulous looks?

*shakes head slowly and stares at Microsoft with a pitying, incredulous look*

kyser73 · Oct 28, 2013

Bryan Newman said:
With 20 some odd million Kinects sold

I see this - and a similar statement about Wii - regularly.

How many of those Kinects are in daily use? How many have driven software sales?

The Wii is pretty famous for selling a bucketload of units, but then having some really poorly selling software because once the cheap novelty toy aspect of it ran out, and the non-core buyers stopped buying newer versions of games they already had.

Saying you've flogged 20m units is one thing. Saying you can leverage that market because they're all being used regularly and that consumers are calling for a more expensive version is another.

CREMSteve · Oct 28, 2013

GribbleGrunger said:
Has anyone posted this yet?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua6TWhPXhqs#t=337

First time I've seen it, there's no wonder there's all of this bad mojo if that's the experience some people are havin with the tour.

Yuck.

Bunta · Oct 28, 2013

miDnIghtEr20C said:
So basically both consoles have problems but everyone is saying it's ok for Sony they'll be ok, but death to MS and the console is so messed up.

If they're to believed, Sony's are normal pre-launch problems. While MS's are major ones that shouldn't be occurring at this stage. Did you read?

vcc · Oct 28, 2013

Verendus said:
Do you understand the full implications of trying to implement a similar DRM system to Microsoft? Especially in regards to some of the markets where SCE operates and gets a substantial amount of marketshare? And I could go on and on and sound even more condescending.

The fact that people still say this when the head of SCE has basically said it was never even an option just amazes me. Not to mention, how idiotic someone has to be to believe that SCE were still not decided as late as February as to what to do with DRM, neglecting how much of a ball ache it would be to try and implement something like that as a last minute thing.

You're free to believe though.

Sony had less impetus for it. I think Sony also had better disk DRM so piracy was less of a concern. The 360's copy protection was compromised early so perhaps part of the online DRM idea was to help combat piracy for them. Sony had a stronger DRM solution that didn't get cracked till pretty late and most of the cracks were unstable I'm not sure of where the current state of PS3 piracy is but I didn't hear of a significant crack till late 2010. 4 years after launch. I heard about groups cracking the 360 disk DRM in 2005.

Sydle · Oct 28, 2013

Has it been confirmed that X1 was not originally supposed to launch this year? I just don't understand how things like this weren't locked and loaded months ago.

la flama blanca · Oct 28, 2013

miDnIghtEr20C said:
So basically both consoles have problems but everyone is saying it's ok for Sony they'll be ok, but death to MS and the console is so messed up.

Congrats on being obtuse as fuck. Read the fucking thread.

malboroking · Oct 28, 2013

Xevious said:
Head of SCE has said something which paints his financially troubled company in a good light. There's no way it can't be true!

/s

The burden of proof is on you to show that Sony had a plan for some sort of DRM similar to XB1s. This shit is stupid, there is absolutely no evidence that this was ever the case.

SwiftDeath · Oct 28, 2013

gamechanger87 said:
Exactly.

How the hell do things like this indicate normal console growing pains?

SwiftDeath said:
Interesting character

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...ence-leaves-eurogamer-after-libel-complaints/

miDnIghtEr20C · Oct 28, 2013

Mondy said:
I can't believe there is still people who are so skeptical about CBOAT, Mort and Thuway even after all the shit they've had right. Cynicism can't be beaten.

Lot's of insiders are right and wrong at the time they find things out. My own insider that I have on my site was right and wrong about things.

I've learned to wait to see what actually happens before I get upset or frustrated with stuff.

Here we are now with no 3rd party games being shown from MS, yet a couple months back I was told that MS was money hatting devs not to show off the PS4 versions of those games.

They get em right, they get em wrong.

Beer Monkey · Oct 28, 2013

JetBlackPanda said:
this is good. real good.

this thread keeps delivering.

People who want Microsoft to quit the console business are like Chevy fans that want Ford to stop making trucks.

At the end of the day, if Ford quit making trucks, Chevrolet would decrease the value proposition for their own trucks.

Maybe you should buy a sticker for your PS4, depicting Calvin peeing on Master Chief.

electroshockwave · Oct 28, 2013

Bryan Newman said:
The last 3 years have been rough. This launch software wise is clearly demonstrating the power of competition. MS clearly sat back and said "Well shit. Our software line up has been a little sparse since '10...Let's fix that.

Where as Sony who over the past 3 years have been lauded for their diverse software lineup have slipped this launch.

This stuff goes in cycles.

I'm not sure how you could come to this conclusion at all. Ryse and Crimson Dragon both started as 360 games. Whether they were having trouble on 360 or they were moved to bolster the XB1's lineup it doesn't show any change in attitude from Microsoft because they've been lacking in exclusives for the past few years. Forza is pretty much a bi-annual series and so 5 coming out this year isn't MS trying to fix anything. The only surprises to speak of at launch are them securing DR3 as an exclusive and Killer Instinct.

see5harp · Oct 28, 2013

Dragon said:
What was outlined in mortimer's blog post was that for some unknown reason each game is managing that on its own now vs. the built-in api that was done on the 360. Why would they do this? No one knows.

It might be because of some of the crazy weird possibilities that exist with snapping and switching. Like the way the system manages memory and how suspend works. Like in that video where they show guys going from TV to a suspended game to a skype call and then snap internet explorer all with 3 separate OSes I can see how maybe their awesome solution didn't work exactly the same. I really hope it works out

ModBot · Oct 28, 2013

We're at the part of the thread where a bunch of people just piss all over each other. This thread is being locked. Given that any pre-release console rumour thread is going to descend into this, think twice about whether or not to post them.

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