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RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-06-2015, 01:17 AM)
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Creating this thread for the dozen or so Muslim gaffers to discuss contemporary issues, religious matters, non-religious matters, share videos and articles, etc. It seems like most of us only get together in Ramadan OTs every year while sitting the rest of the year out. Non-Muslims are welcome to join discussions.

Please be civil, calm and respectful to each other. Also this is Muslim OT and not Islam OT. I dont believe this is the place to throw theological arguments, interpretations and textual criticism.

Here's Nouman Ali Khan's latest khutbah on the Paris attacks and terrorism in general.
Kralamoonard
Member
(12-06-2015, 01:40 AM)
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Jazakhallah khair for sharing the video Rusty. Here's also another video I'd like to share which was sent to me after the Paris shootings. I initially thought it was in response to the Paris shootings that had happened last month, but what hit me the most, was that after watching the video, then scrolling down to see when the video had released, it was actually in response to the January shootings. It's quite sad actually, as he discusses in the video that unfortunately, it will happen again and again, and as Muslims, we need to start looking in the mirror and being self critical towards our deen and how we've lost our ways (generalising of course). He details how improvements start in our homes, on our streets, to our communities, wider societies then the countries and nation as a whole.

Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzP8e9b_OT8
NYCmetsfan
Banned
(12-06-2015, 02:42 AM)
I have a question.

How is the question of the caliphate delt with with most mainstream islam. Its obviously a big draw for idiots like ISIS but I had heard gaf posters in the past talk a lot about it.

It's it as important to the faith as something like Zionism is to much of Judaism?

I know that's a big goal for radical islamists and jihadists. To establish a real "islamic" government. How come people in most other Islamic nations are fine with nominally secular governments? I guess I'm just trying to understand how the faith talks about government and how Muslims especially in the west view politics and things like nationalism, secularism, etc.
Kisaya
Member
(12-06-2015, 03:06 AM)
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Hmmmm I thought we already had a OT

Anyways, hi.

Originally Posted by NYCmetsfan

I have a question.

How is the question of the caliphate delt with with most mainstream islam. Its obviously a big draw for idiots like ISIS but I had heard gaf posters in the past talk a lot about it.

It's it as important to the faith as something like Zionism is to much of Judaism?

I know that's a big goal for radical islamists and jihadists. To establish a real "islamic" government. How come people in most other Islamic nations are fine with nominally secular governments? I guess I'm just trying to understand how the faith talks about government and how Muslims especially in the west view politics and things like nationalism, secularism, etc.

I mean... and correct me because I'm ignorant, don't most people want religion separate from government? In the US it was founded with the intentions of Chruch separate from State, and that's how most countries in the West are run. Muslims living in the West are influenced by that and is why they are more secular. The same with Muslims in the Middle East who are practicing Islam, but who feel it should kept at home and in the Mosques instead of their government body.

Then again, I also won't ignore that there are also many Muslims who don't identify as Jhadists but who want the laws indicated in the Quran in their governments. It's complicated because I'm assuming there is a divide of people, especially as the years go on and new ideas are emerging with Muslim young adults.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-06-2015, 03:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by NYCmetsfan

I have a question.

How is the question of the caliphate delt with with most mainstream islam. Its obviously a big draw for idiots like ISIS but I had heard gaf posters in the past talk a lot about it.

It's it as important to the faith as something like Zionism is to much of Judaism?

I know that's a big goal for radical islamists and jihadists. To establish a real "islamic" government. How come people in most other Islamic nations are fine with nominally secular governments? I guess I'm just trying to understand how the faith talks about government and how Muslims especially in the west view politics and things like nationalism, secularism, etc.

Muslims are required to follow only 5 things as part of their faith that are absolutely, fundamentally important (for Sunnis at least). These are called 5 pillars of Islam:

1 - Shahadah (declaration of faith)
2 - Salah (5 daily prayers)
3 - Zakat (compulsory, fixed payment of alms to the poor and needy)
4 - Sawm (fasting during the month of Ramadan)
5 - Hajj (pilgrimage to makkah at least once in lifetime)

There is no requirement of establishing Caliphate or warfare or whatever that's critical to the teachings or comparable to the concept of zionism.
The Artisan
Member
(12-06-2015, 04:45 AM)
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Asalam mua lai kuum everyone already here and who will arrive.

I've had rustlings with my faith in the past, but never before in my life at this point have I ever felt so disconnected. It may partially be due to my parents' dogmatic way of practicing and pressing that upon me, but another may be my psychological issues (and the bad decisions I've made in my life that have contributed to worsening it).

Today was my first time praying in what felt like a week, and I feel like I only do it not because I am supposed to be worshipping God, but because I don't want to forget how to do it.

I don't know if calling myself Muslim is even totally accurate now. It is a religion that makes the most sense to me in describing the oneness of God, but there are so many other things with the religion that I dislike or disagree with. Things that I have asked about in the past and never got a clear answer to.

But when I make my duas, I try to make sure to pray for everyone, everyone who I know and care about, even if I don't know their names. I want to wish well on the whole of humanity, not just other Muslim people.
Kisaya
Member
(12-06-2015, 05:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

Asalam mua lai kuum everyone already here and who will arrive.

I've had rustlings with my faith in the past, but never before in my life at this point have I ever felt so disconnected. It may partially be due to my parents' dogmatic way of practicing and pressing that upon me, but another may be my psychological issues (and the bad decisions I've made in my life that have contributed to worsening it).

Today was my first time praying in what felt like a week, and I feel like I only do it not because I am supposed to be worshipping God, but because I don't want to forget how to do it.

I don't know if calling myself Muslim is even totally accurate now. It is a religion that makes the most sense to me in describing the oneness of God, but there are so many other things with the religion that I dislike or disagree with. Things that I have asked about in the past and never got a clear answer to.

But when I make my duas, I try to make sure to pray for everyone, everyone who I know and care about, even if I don't know their names. I want to wish well on the whole of humanity, not just other Muslim people.

I understand. I no longer have a relationship with my family now because of the changes I've made in my life. You do a lot more than me, despite me still identifying as a Muslim.
The Artisan
Member
(12-06-2015, 05:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kisaya

I understand. I no longer have a relationship with my family now because of the changes I've made in my life. You do a lot more than me, despite me still identifying as a Muslim.

don't be so sure of that, bro. I don't pray 5 times a day. Barely even once a day nowadays. I refrain from eating pork and I drink alcohol basically only when peer pressured and I like smoking marijuana.
Jumeira
Member
(12-06-2015, 06:24 AM)
Great idea Rusty.
The Artisan
Member
(12-06-2015, 07:03 AM)
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yeah, thanks for the PM.
effingvic
Member
(12-06-2015, 08:03 AM)
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Great idea Rusty!

Read this article recently about how we should stop calling ourselves "Bad Muslim", even jokingly, for missing a prayer or something like that.

I have jokingly called myself a "bad Muslim" in the past on account of all of this, but that stops today. If only to check the true infidels -- that is, the enemies of peace, truth, love, and therefore, the enemies of the Islam I know and hold so dear -- I cannot continue to make this joke. And it is a joke, because I don't consider myself a bad Muslim. I believe in one God, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate (the same God, by the way, as Jews and Christians). I believe in the Qur'an as divine revelation. I believe in Muhammad, Jesus and Moses and all of the prophets of Islam. I give to charity, and I engage in jihad daily, without reservation and within the true meaning of the word: a spiritual struggle, not a "holy war" as it is chronically mistranslated. I struggle to seek truth, to fight injustice and to persevere through faith. So, no, I am not a bad Muslim.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melody...b_8682806.html
Kisaya
Member
(12-06-2015, 08:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

don't be so sure of that, bro. I don't pray 5 times a day. Barely even once a day nowadays. I refrain from eating pork and I drink alcohol basically only when peer pressured and I like smoking marijuana.

Back when I was living with my family I only really prayed on Ramadan. I don't prefer eating pork but if it's there I'll nibble at it, I drink socially and I smoke when it's available. I'm not married but I'm currently with my significant other (zina). I don't think of my faith often, but it's there. A lot of people strictly follow the pillars to prove their faith, and not to say that it's enough but the shahada is all that I have.
effingvic
Member
(12-06-2015, 08:27 AM)
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If I had to rate my faith on a scale of 1-5, with 5 being very religious and adherence to all the pillars, I would rate myself a 2. I've struggled with faith growing up but as I get older, I'm slowly starting to rediscover it. I've never not felt Muslim, however, and its always been and will be a big part of my identity.

I'm ashamed to admit I've never finished reading the Qu'ran as well. When I was growing up, my Imams taught me how to read Arabic and not what I was reading. Its a goal of mine to really go through it and study it now that I'm older and have access to translations (any recommendations would be great!).

I never really drank that much but I would on occasion during social events. I never liked the taste but I did it anyways to fit in. I realized it was due to my own lack of self esteem / peer pressure as I felt like I couldnt be interesting unless I drank or people would think I was weird.

However, this past Ramadan I decided not to drink even when I was out with friends and it was a lot easier than I thought. When I really forced myself to socialize without drinking, I found it surprisingly easy. I dont know why I had all these mental blocks before but after overcoming this, it gave me a huge confidence boost that made it much easier to resist other vices in life.

Funny enough I visit bars with co workers and friends more now that I dont drink than when I used to years ago. I just ask for diet coke or sparkling water so I have something that looks like a drink on me.

I dont smoke though. I even stopped shisha. Trying to stay as clean as possible. Even cutting down on caffeine too!
crazy monkey
holds a masters in liberal arts
(12-06-2015, 01:01 PM)
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Thanks for making this rusty. I used to participate a lot in the past here.

I do not talk much now a days. I am peace with my life. I can not change the world. I try to be the best person I can be for my son and family both religion wise and practical wise. I think if every one was that we will not have issue in this world. Just be a good person first.

I have not had try to explain anyone about religion for past 3-4 years. I have used only one answer usually which is "To you your religion and to me mine". I know the context behind it but I treat it as different in my situation.

One thing i did different than many of my friends and family is that I was told to finish quran at early age in arabic. I had no idea what I was reading. I did not finish very early but I did and had no idea what I finished. at around 19 I read the whole quran again but this time only the meaning. It was so much better. I know we are not suppose to read quran without knowing the real intentions of the line and when ever I found confusing instruction I went and tried to get answers. I was frankly depressed for some time after reading quran my way. After some time I felt so light and so relieved. I still know many regular muslim who have not read the meaning or try to find the meanings behind the words. It is so much important.

I know many persons who always think of god as some one who is always angry and ready to punish and that is about it. I think of it as opposite way. Word mercy comes many times in quran and it is covered many time how much mercy god has.

one concept I struggled with was that If god is the creator and owner this vast universe which is unending in size why does he want a tiny fragment of the universe to behave certain way? Why does he gets angry and punish for smallest things( this was before I started believing in mercy more than anger) ? I always remember for those question above what someone said. I had a teacher( real teacher not mulla) who also used to lead prayers in small mosque in india and he said in one lecture that god does not need your prayer the prayers are for you.

from childhood I have treated allah as a friend. I mean he is suppose to be the closest thing. Every day I remember him countless times and not just by words literally by talking to him as a friend. I know it is weird lol

After many struggle this is what I follow as principle. I always try to be nicest person I can be to everyone. I never ask for any one's religion and if some one as the ask the question I try to avoid it by saying I am human first. If some one has question regarding islam I only say something that I know 100% about but 99% of the time that is not the case so I tell them to read quran interpretation online. I never argue. I smile a lot. you have to mix practical life with religious life.
Azih
Member
(12-07-2015, 01:59 PM)
Hey everyone. Salaam and peace to all. I'm really coming to a point that having long deep arguments with others about what 'Islam' is really getting to me. It's not like I'm making the world a better place by trying to get people to understand that lumping all Muslims in under any one label is in any way a good thing.

Hope this doesn't become a rerun of the old Islam OT where, and I was as guilty of this as anyone, we don't become very obsessed with the points of faith in which we differ (and it's safe to say that it will be on pretty much almost all of them). We're all trying the best we can and only God knows who has it more right or less right.

Artisan: Thoughts and prayers are with you buddy. From what I saw of what I skimmed of your other thread I can only echo other people in saying that you should reach out for help from the people in your life and seriously consider professional help as well. Life is a struggle and we need all the support we can get.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-07-2015, 04:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Azih

Hey everyone. Salaam and peace to all. I'm really coming to a point that having long deep arguments with others about what 'Islam' is really getting to me. It's not like I'm making the world a better place by trying to get people to understand that lumping all Muslims in under any one label is in any way a good thing.

Hope this doesn't become a rerun of the old Islam OT where, and I was as guilty of this as anyone, we don't become very obsessed with the points of faith in which we differ (and it's safe to say that it will be on pretty much almost all of them). We're all trying the best we can and only God knows who has it more right or less right.

Artisan: Thoughts and prayers are with you buddy. From what I saw of what I skimmed of your other thread I can only echo other people in saying that you should reach out for help from the people in your life and seriously consider professional help as well. Life is a struggle and we need all the support we can get.

Wasalam. I'll add in the OP that we wont be discussing "real interpretation" or theology, etc.
RiZ III
Member
(12-07-2015, 07:33 PM)
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Salaam to everyone here. For those struggling with faith, I can't really say this enough times, but if you want to try to hold on to it and strengthen it, you have to go back to the Quran. Don't just read it, listen to it. It was always meant to be an oral recitation. Listen to it in English because even in the English translation, it is an extremely powerful speech. Though I would recommend you to listen to it in Arabic-English where each verse is recited in Arabic and then in English. This allows you to hear the rhythm and beauty of the actual text.

There are two great resources for this I would recommend. One is online and one is mobile.

For the online version, you can find it here:
http://read.quranexplorer.com/1/1/1/...io/Tajweed-OFF

For mobile: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/qura...451133186?mt=8
You will have to pay to upgrade to get all the reciters and the English audio, but it's well worth it. Best decision I made was to get this. I listen to it daily on my commute.

I would also encourage you to listen to the tafseers available at Bayinnah.com as they will give you a much deeper understanding of the Quran, and the linguistic beauty and depth of it. This will lead to strengthening your faith and easing that heavy constricting feeling in your heart.

I base all of this on my own experience. Everyone struggles with faith and everyone has ups and downs. I was on the verge of atheism a few years back. I ended up downloading that app and forced myself to listen every day. Later I found Bayinnah.com and their tafseers which are awesome (though sometimes poorly recorded ).

Don't think you are alone in feeling how you do. It's natural and I personally think it's healthy as it forces us to take a serious look at the Quran and its message which will lead to a renewal and a rebirth of faith. This time much stronger as it will be based on knowledge instead of just dogmatic practices and random tidbits we had heard growing up. The Quran is a book that constantly asks to listener to reflect, to think, to ponder on its message. However, in order to do that, one has to actually know what it's saying. Unfortunately, many of us as kids and teens were not given a proper approach to the Quran. Many of us from South Asian backgrounds probably were just taught how to read Arabic and made to read the Quran as a child in Arabic without any understanding of what was actually being read. This isn't what the Quran is for. Thankfully as adults, we have countless resources at our fingertips to fix this wrong. It is up to the individual to make that effort though.

May God give us all patience, guidance, ease our hearts, and make firm our faith.
Numb
Banned
(12-07-2015, 07:50 PM)
Asalam mua lai kuum brothers and sisters
DevilPower
Member
(12-07-2015, 09:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by RiZ III

Salaam to everyone here. For those struggling with faith, I can't really say this enough times, but if you want to try to hold on to it and strengthen it, you have to go back to the Quran. Don't just read it, listen to it. It was always meant to be an oral recitation. Listen to it in English because even in the English translation, it is an extremely powerful speech. Though I would recommend you to listen to it in Arabic-English where each verse is recited in Arabic and then in English. This allows you to hear the rhythm and beauty of the actual text.

I just want to add that even for someone coping mainly with depression (like Artisan for example), just listening to recitation of Quran would help to pacify it.

The arabic script of Quran is very poetic and melodious in nature and even listening to it (not worrying about understanding it) would have the same effect as listening to a good piece of orchestrated music.

And when one feels that the imminent problem of depression is averted, then we can move to the translation and explanation of the Quran. I believe returning to faith should be done with baby steps.
Kralamoonard
Member
(12-07-2015, 10:59 PM)
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Asalamo alaykum brothers and sisters,

Just wanted to add to what has already been excellently said, in particular about the Quran always remember, you can always do dua'a since Allah is the most compassionate and merciful; it's never too late to change; there's a reason why 113/114 of the Surah's in the Quran introduce Allah as the most compassionate and merciful.

Originally Posted by crazy monkey

I always remember for those question above what someone said. I had a teacher( real teacher not mulla) who also used to lead prayers in small mosque in india and he said in one lecture that god does not need your prayer the prayers are for you.

from childhood I have treated allah as a friend. I mean he is suppose to be the closest thing. Every day I remember him countless times and not just by words literally by talking to him as a friend. I know it is weird lol

It's not weird at all ha, it's in fact recommended. In fact, in many Hadith's, the awliyaa'a Allah (friends of Allah) is something that is mentioned time and time again. If you're closest to him, he'll be close to you and protect and keep you steadfast on imaan, just as any good friend will do. That's the best mindset to have.

And you know what's crazy and coincidental? The part in bolded is exactly what I said to my fellow Muslim brothers at school today after prayer (we pray Duhr and Asir at lunch times in a classroom that school kindly offered to us). Is that Allah doesn't need our salah; we need it. I said it today because I heard it a few years ago from my brother and it couldn't by any closer to the truth.

Originally Posted by crazy monkey

One thing i did different than many of my friends and family is that I was told to finish quran at early age in arabic. I had no idea what I was reading. I did not finish very early but I did and had no idea what I finished. at around 19 I read the whole quran again but this time only the meaning. It was so much better. I know we are not suppose to read quran without knowing the real intentions of the line and when ever I found confusing instruction I went and tried to get answers. I was frankly depressed for some time after reading quran my way. After some time I felt so light and so relieved. I still know many regular muslim who have not read the meaning or try to find the meanings behind the words. It is so much important.

Originally Posted by effingvic

I'm ashamed to admit I've never finished reading the Qu'ran as well. When I was growing up, my Imams taught me how to read Arabic and not what I was reading. Its a goal of mine to really go through it and study it now that I'm older and have access to translations (any recommendations would be great!).

You shouldn't be ashamed to not having finished reading the Qu'ran! I'll tell you why. Alhamdullilah I go to my local mosque madrassa from 5-7 approximately 3 times a week, and there's a great teacher there who has alhamdullilah changed the way the madrassa operates. Before, it was just about reading the Quran, finishing it once, then not going madrassa anymore, as if mission accomplished and that's your ticket to janah lol. He changed it when he took over some time ago, through the will of Allah, and alhamdullilah, it's more about understanding what the Quran is about (not just reading it), and acting upon it. Don't get me wrong, of course reading the Quran gives you a lot of blessings, ten rewards per letter etc, but once you engage with the Quran, nothing can be more beautiful, and essentially, reading, memorising, understanding and applying the Quran in your daily life can never be more rewarding. And that is a target I'm striving for; and despite being Arabic and fluent in the language, I still need my teacher to explain verses to me and get the english translation; I also find that it helps with memorisation to as it puts the verse into context.

My recommendation would be try and go to your local mosque or library, and see if there is a translated Quran. Or if there is a local madrassa institute, or some sort of Halaqa (gathering), perhaps you can join that (I know it's easier said than done, my apologies!). You can always listen to various scholars on Youtube that do tafseer, I always find that handy.

Originally Posted by DevilPower

I just want to add that even for someone coping mainly with depression (like Artisan for example), just listening to recitation of Quran would help to pacify it.

The arabic script of Quran is very poetic and melodious in nature and even listening to it (not worrying about understanding it) would have the same effect as listening to a good piece of orchestrated music.

And when one feels that the imminent problem of depression is averted, then we can move to the translation and explanation of the Quran. I believe returning to faith should be done with baby steps.

Originally Posted by RiZ III

Salaam to everyone here. For those struggling with faith, I can't really say this enough times, but if you want to try to hold on to it and strengthen it, you have to go back to the Quran. Don't just read it, listen to it. It was always meant to be an oral recitation. Listen to it in English because even in the English translation, it is an extremely powerful speech. Though I would recommend you to listen to it in Arabic-English where each verse is recited in Arabic and then in English. This allows you to hear the rhythm and beauty of the actual text.

There are two great resources for this I would recommend. One is online and one is mobile.

For the online version, you can find it here:
http://read.quranexplorer.com/1/1/1/...io/Tajweed-OFF

For mobile: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/qura...451133186?mt=8
You will have to pay to upgrade to get all the reciters and the English audio, but it's well worth it. Best decision I made was to get this. I listen to it daily on my commute.

I would also encourage you to listen to the tafseers available at Bayinnah.com as they will give you a much deeper understanding of the Quran, and the linguistic beauty and depth of it. This will lead to strengthening your faith and easing that heavy constricting feeling in your heart.

I base all of this on my own experience. Everyone struggles with faith and everyone has ups and downs. I was on the verge of atheism a few years back. I ended up downloading that app and forced myself to listen every day. Later I found Bayinnah.com and their tafseers which are awesome (though sometimes poorly recorded ).

Don't think you are alone in feeling how you do. It's natural and I personally think it's healthy as it forces us to take a serious look at the Quran and its message which will lead to a renewal and a rebirth of faith. This time much stronger as it will be based on knowledge instead of just dogmatic practices and random tidbits we had heard growing up. The Quran is a book that constantly asks to listener to reflect, to think, to ponder on its message. However, in order to do that, one has to actually know what it's saying. Unfortunately, many of us as kids and teens were not given a proper approach to the Quran. Many of us from South Asian backgrounds probably were just taught how to read Arabic and made to read the Quran as a child in Arabic without any understanding of what was actually being read. This isn't what the Quran is for. Thankfully as adults, we have countless resources at our fingertips to fix this wrong. It is up to the individual to make that effort though.

I can concur with this. Even though I'm not depressed, listening to the Quran brings about a certain peace within me, and can make you really touch your heart if you engage. I recommend this if anyone is struggling or wants to cope with depression. My allah give us all the patience and tawfeeq to ease our hearts towards stronger imaan and make us steadfast on our deen.

Originally Posted by RiZ III

May God give us all patience, guidance, ease our hearts, and make firm our faith.

Ameen.
effingvic
Member
(12-08-2015, 04:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kralamoonard

You shouldn't be ashamed to not having finished reading the Qu'ran! I'll tell you why. Alhamdullilah I go to my local mosque madrassa from 5-7 approximately 3 times a week, and there's a great teacher there who has alhamdullilah changed the way the madrassa operates. Before, it was just about reading the Quran, finishing it once, then not going madrassa anymore, as if mission accomplished and that's your ticket to janah lol. He changed it when he took over some time ago, through the will of Allah, and alhamdullilah, it's more about understanding what the Quran is about (not just reading it), and acting upon it. Don't get me wrong, of course reading the Quran gives you a lot of blessings, ten rewards per letter etc, but once you engage with the Quran, nothing can be more beautiful, and essentially, reading, memorising, understanding and applying the Quran in your daily life can never be more rewarding. And that is a target I'm striving for; and despite being Arabic and fluent in the language, I still need my teacher to explain verses to me and get the english translation; I also find that it helps with memorisation to as it puts the verse into context.

My recommendation would be try and go to your local mosque or library, and see if there is a translated Quran. Or if there is a local madrassa institute, or some sort of Halaqa (gathering), perhaps you can join that (I know it's easier said than done, my apologies!). You can always listen to various scholars on Youtube that do tafseer, I always find that handy.

Thanks brother! I'm trying to find a good app so I can always have it on me on the go, but I would love to have a beautiful Qu'ran in my house. YouTube is also something I've never considered. As many of you said, hearing it recited is probably the best way to experience it. I'll find some videos.

EDIT: RiZ III's recommendation is looking solid.


Originally Posted by Azih

Hey everyone. Salaam and peace to all. I'm really coming to a point that having long deep arguments with others about what 'Islam' is really getting to me. It's not like I'm making the world a better place by trying to get people to understand that lumping all Muslims in under any one label is in any way a good thing.

Hope this doesn't become a rerun of the old Islam OT where, and I was as guilty of this as anyone, we don't become very obsessed with the points of faith in which we differ (and it's safe to say that it will be on pretty much almost all of them). We're all trying the best we can and only God knows who has it more right or less right.

I'm reminded of a quote in one of the recent Humans of New York feature about refugees. The refugee said something along the lines of "I'm gonna turn off the TV and not think about politics or religion. I'm just gonna think about diapers", referring to taking care of his two kids.

All this stuff, the trolling and hatred is just a distraction. I used to get super worked up about it, trying to prove people wrong on the internet or in real life but at the end of the day, you cant make someone do something they dont want to. If they want to educate themselves, there are thousands of resources for them to do it. Theres no reason for you to feel bad or waste your energy repeating yourself over and over again. Just take a deep breath and remember it will all pass.

All the negativity isn't worth it. Be aware of news and global events but at the same time you dont need to read negative comments on the internet. It does nothing but make you feel bad. Why willingly subject yourself to it, yknow?

Focus on your life. Think about your own goals, what makes YOU happy and go after that each and every day. Fuck the haters, fuck Trump and people like him. Dont let them distract you from getting yours. After all this bigotry, I'm more determined to live the best possible life I can for me and my family and help as many people as I can along the way. You should do the same. Theres no bigger middle finger than that.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-08-2015, 04:20 AM)
RustyNails's Avatar
Has anyone read The Study Quran?. Here's a free sample.

On one hand, Scholars such as Dr. Jonathan Brown whom I deeply respect, admired the book. Few reviews:

“A monument of religious literature in its own right, The Study Quran presents the sacred text in a meticulous new English rendering. One of this ambitious project’s greatest strengths is the breadth and variety of exegetical sources and methods that inform the commentary throughout—most impressive.”—John Renard, Professor of Medieval Islam at Saint Louis University

“A truly magisterial and the most comprehensive study of the Quran to date.”—Asma Afsaruddin, Chair of the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures at Indiana University, Bloomington

“By giving attention to a wide range of commentators, the editors capture the diversity and depth of the exegetical ideas that have been brought to the Quran—a useful resource.”—Peter Adamson, Professor of Ancient and Medieval Philosophy at King’s College London

“A huge and significant scholarly undertaking—a major service to Islamic studies.”—Jonathan Brown, Associate Director of the Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University

On the other hand, Abu Eesa Niamatullah has advised people to stay away from it.

Abu Eesa
Just a friendly response to those wanting to know why, or for examples, this FB post is not for you. I might write about it in detail in the future if I get time but this is not a priority for me and plenty other folks who work in this area by then should have explained why.

This is a post for my students who just wanted my position on the matter and nothing else. And that is exactly what it is. Take it or leave it, wa jazakallahu khayrah.

PS: the other question a lot of people were specifically asking was about the number of experts or scholars who had endorsed the work. I say: this doesn't mean much by itself. These academics speaking to fellow academics and we will always find some kind of benefit in any kind of work, even if we frame it as a collection of perennial thoughts on the Qur'an. Even that would be useful just to save time researching what they say. So, don't think that an academic's endorsement is an endorsement for the masses, or an endorsement of all and every thing inside the book etc. Also, some are not the experts you think they are. Also, some are put in a difficult professional position to comment and need to maintain positive academic relationships - which is a misnomer in concept itself but hey. Any of the above can apply, and that's not even including our respected (and not so respected) scholars and academics just making a simple old mistake.

Summary: don't take endorsements too seriously, my own for other projects, included!

And Allah knows best.
Like · 85 · Reply · Report · Nov 26
12 replies
Abu Eesa
Popping in again to reassure everyone that if you did buy this book, it doesn't need to be burnt and you're not sinful lol and perhaps you might benefit from non-problematic areas. But as I said before, unless you're well-grounded in 'aqidah, I'd avoid it and yes you'll miss out on absolutely nothing. And if you are well grounded and understand Arabic and the sciences at a decent level, you might find it useful.

This is because the main author, Seyyed Nasr, is a perennialist (judging by the discussion)

What is your take?
Azih
Member
(12-08-2015, 03:15 PM)
Well the criticism seems to be one of attacking the man, not the message so it's not a great response to the utility of the book itself. From the samples it seems like it would be a really good resource as a summary of the scholarship that focuses deeply on each verse of the Quran.
The Artisan
Member
(12-09-2015, 02:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Azih

Hey everyone. Salaam and peace to all. I'm really coming to a point that having long deep arguments with others about what 'Islam' is really getting to me. It's not like I'm making the world a better place by trying to get people to understand that lumping all Muslims in under any one label is in any way a good thing.

Hope this doesn't become a rerun of the old Islam OT where, and I was as guilty of this as anyone, we don't become very obsessed with the points of faith in which we differ (and it's safe to say that it will be on pretty much almost all of them). We're all trying the best we can and only God knows who has it more right or less right.

Artisan: Thoughts and prayers are with you buddy. From what I saw of what I skimmed of your other thread I can only echo other people in saying that you should reach out for help from the people in your life and seriously consider professional help as well. Life is a struggle and we need all the support we can get.

walaikuum. I appreciate all the support that GAF has given me thus far, and I'll just mention again that professional help is not an option for me right now. I'm struggling with a commute for a job that I'm not too happy doing which is temporary, and I have debts to pay (student loans) that I haven't even begun to pay back in a steady way. I'll be on my father's insurance until I am 26, but my parents are also going through some bad ass financial problems. and they're getting old.
I don't think anything can help tbh.

Originally Posted by Kisaya

Back when I was living with my family I only really prayed on Ramadan. I don't prefer eating pork but if it's there I'll nibble at it, I drink socially and I smoke when it's available. I'm not married but I'm currently with my significant other (zina). I don't think of my faith often, but it's there. A lot of people strictly follow the pillars to prove their faith, and not to say that it's enough but the shahada is all that I have.

well, we all got our problems, man. I am in no place to judge. If some people follow the pillars just to prove their own faith like you said, then who are they trying to prove it to? god? or to others? In my opinion you need to be aware of where your devoutness is rooted in.

Originally Posted by DevilPower

I just want to add that even for someone coping mainly with depression (like Artisan for example), just listening to recitation of Quran would help to pacify it.

The arabic script of Quran is very poetic and melodious in nature and even listening to it (not worrying about understanding it) would have the same effect as listening to a good piece of orchestrated music.

And when one feels that the imminent problem of depression is averted, then we can move to the translation and explanation of the Quran. I believe returning to faith should be done with baby steps.

The thing is man, well I haven't properly gone to Jumma in a very long time, but when we go, we hear the Qur'an don't we? during the jammat prayer? It hasn't helped me there, and I feel like if I am going to turn to the Qur'an for remedy, it'd be best to hear someone reciting it, instead of like hearing a recording or watching a youtube video of it or something.
RiZ III
Member
(12-10-2015, 03:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

The thing is man, well I haven't properly gone to Jumma in a very long time, but when we go, we hear the Qur'an don't we? during the jammat prayer? It hasn't helped me there, and I feel like if I am going to turn to the Qur'an for remedy, it'd be best to hear someone reciting it, instead of like hearing a recording or watching a youtube video of it or something.

True enough. I personally don't believe the Quran can be used as a magical incantation to cure our illnesses, fears, or depression. Not just hearing it anyways. Without understanding, it's just sounds. Might be pretty sounds, but you could listen to good music for that too. It's with understanding that a connection is made between two parties. If you speak to an animal, all it hears are sounds. It doesn't hear your message, it doesn't hear you. The Quran is no different. It speaks directly to the listener. It's up the the listener to make the effort to really hear it.

I've heard beautiful recitations of Quran in recordings and person, but I only get goosebumps, tears, and a warming of the heart when it's surahs or sections of the Quran I know.

That said, even if you do understand the message, the quality of the recitation certainly makes a difference, that's why it's always had proper methods of recitations for each and every word. When I was rediscovering the Quran, these two surahs and recitations made a particularly strong impact on me. I remember listening to this recitation of surah Duha while driving and breaking down in sobs and tears.

http://youtu.be/BV5Pcr1sLqk
Although directed directly to the Prophet, it speaks to us all in its message. God has done so much for you since you were a child, so why would you think you have been abandoned?

The second is a short recitation of the first 11 verses of surah Luqman. Again this was one of the first few recitations I listened to when I was struggling. It's beautifully recited and also a beautiful summary of basically the whole Quranic message.
http://youtu.be/lxKAUAQ_Vbk

Listening to the Arabic and reading the translation is good, but listening to the translation is much better. It's one thing to passively read "Your lord has neither forsaken you not hated you" and it's another to hear it said to you. It makes a much bigger psychological impact which is why I'd encourage you and everyone really to listen to it with a narrated translation after every verse.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-10-2015, 05:04 AM)
RustyNails's Avatar

Originally Posted by The Artisan

walaikuum. I appreciate all the support that GAF has given me thus far, and I'll just mention again that professional help is not an option for me right now. I'm struggling with a commute for a job that I'm not too happy doing which is temporary, and I have debts to pay (student loans) that I haven't even begun to pay back in a steady way. I'll be on my father's insurance until I am 26, but my parents are also going through some bad ass financial problems. and they're getting old.
I don't think anything can help tbh.well, we all got our problems, man. I am in no place to judge. If some people follow the pillars just to prove their own faith like you said, then who are they trying to prove it to? god? or to others? In my opinion you need to be aware of where your devoutness is rooted in. The thing is man, well I haven't properly gone to Jumma in a very long time, but when we go, we hear the Qur'an don't we? during the jammat prayer? It hasn't helped me there, and I feel like if I am going to turn to the Qur'an for remedy, it'd be best to hear someone reciting it, instead of like hearing a recording or watching a youtube video of it or something.

I just want to tell you that (since you're not even 26), you're at a place where many wish they were. You're young. You have parents who love you. You have a job. Most importantly, you have a strong will to hang on to that "rope of Allah" (as He says it) despite it being very, very difficult, with your depression and what not. Some people have abusive parents. Some don't even have parents. I lost my father to cancer. And this was after staying up night after night praying, making dua with inconsolable crying, reading quran to give him shifa. To no avail. I did not eat anything that day. I buried him with my hands. After that, I just did not understand why. Why him. He was relatively young and quit smoking. He was the most generous man I ever knew, and as well as the most successful man I've ever seen. There was never a begger that was not given charity to by my father if he went to a mosque. Why would Allah take such an honorable and decent man, who taught me everything I know, and gave me everything I wanted? I had no answers. I blindly screamed and shouted at air. I had burning questions. I had doubts. I made lot of sins and regret them.

But I slowly realized that all of us belong to God, and to him we will return. Sooner or later, I'm going to be just a memory too. So will you, and everyone here right now on earth. So what are you doing with the time that's given to you. You are at the prime of your life, and you can achieve anything. But if you don't believe in the deen, the akhira, the divine justice, any meaning you subscribe to life is superficial, no matter how deep and "real". Yes the emotions and feelings are very real, more real than pain. But it all goes away man. Either when we're dead, through passage of time, through medication, therapy, distraction, whatever. It always does. What always stays is the meaning that transcends life itself, and that meaning you hold is your faith in Allah. It's what we leave behind that matters. Have you left the earth a better place than before you came here? Even if it's as simple as planting a tree? Have you fed a poor, hungry man food one time? Heck, did you even water a small plant? This, all of this, counts as reward in akhira. Yes praying salah, fasting, zakat, hajj, thats much more important. That shows your devotion. But just because you cannot pray Jum'a or fast in Ramadan does not mean you have forsaken Islam. It just means that you have opportunity to be a better Muslim. Don't think I'm a perfect Muslim. Not by a long shot whatsoever. I am still not at peace with my father's passing, but I'm at a much better place than I was a year ago. You will find that the time is the greatest healer of all things.

Just look at the bigger picture. Plan out your life. Enjoy little things. But man, life is struggle from the day you're born. No one is born happy and laughing. Don't let it burden you to the point of no return and know that you have everything, even when you don't. But you must also help yourself. You should definitely try to seek professional help, despite you thinking it's not an option. Do it for your sake. To the point of listening to Quran. I am of the belief that it can heal you with it's recitation even if you do not understand it's meaning. There has been so many instances, just in Prophet Muhammad's history, that his enemies were dumbstruck when the Quran was being recited. Some of them would sneak out at night and stalk his home, trying to listen to the words being recited. But in the morning they will spit on him and fight him. Sheikh Abdul Basit Abd as-Samad is my favorite Qari. Read this excerpt from his wiki:

In 1987, whilst on a visit to America, ‘Abdus-Samad related a story from one trip he made to the Soviet Union, with then Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Naser. ‘Abdus-Samad was asked to recite for some leaders of the Soviet party. ‘Abdus-Samad recounts that four to five of his listeners from the Communist Party were in tears on hearing the recitation, although they didn't understand what was being recited, but they cried, touched by the Qur'an.

Indira Gandhi, an Indian prime minister and political leader always felt touched by his recitation and would stop alongside to appreciate his recitation.

Speaking of whom, you should listen to his qirat. It is absolutely amazing, and awe-inspiring. Listen to the Surah Maryam Qirat here
RiZ III
Member
(12-10-2015, 08:11 PM)
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Great post Rusty.
DevilPower
Member
(12-10-2015, 08:32 PM)
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Maybe we should start recommending Calvin and Hobbes strip to people coping with depression :-) Certainly helps me whenever I'm feeling down.
And also the far side. Though I only understand like 70% of the comics.
Like rusty said... enjoy little things in life...
Kralamoonard
Member
(12-10-2015, 09:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by RustyNails

I just want to tell you that (since you're not even 26), you're at a place where many wish they were. You're young. You have parents who love you. You have a job. Most importantly, you have a strong will to hang on to that "rope of Allah" (as He says it) despite it being very, very difficult, with your depression and what not. Some people have abusive parents. Some don't even have parents. I lost my father to cancer. And this was after staying up night after night praying, making dua with inconsolable crying, reading quran to give him shifa. To no avail. I did not eat anything that day. I buried him with my hands. After that, I just did not understand why. Why him. He was relatively young and quit smoking. He was the most generous man I ever knew, and as well as the most successful man I've ever seen. There was never a begger that was not given charity to by my father if he went to a mosque. Why would Allah take such an honorable and decent man, who taught me everything I know, and gave me everything I wanted? I had no answers. I blindly screamed and shouted at air. I had burning questions. I had doubts. I made lot of sins and regret them.

But I slowly realized that all of us belong to God, and to him we will return. Sooner or later, I'm going to be just a memory too. So will you, and everyone here right now on earth. So what are you doing with the time that's given to you. You are at the prime of your life, and you can achieve anything. But if you don't believe in the deen, the akhira, the divine justice, any meaning you subscribe to life is superficial, no matter how deep and "real". Yes the emotions and feelings are very real, more real than pain. But it all goes away man. Either when we're dead, through passage of time, through medication, therapy, distraction, whatever. It always does. What always stays is the meaning that transcends life itself, and that meaning you hold is your faith in Allah. It's what we leave behind that matters. Have you left the earth a better place than before you came here? Even if it's as simple as planting a tree? Have you fed a poor, hungry man food one time? Heck, did you even water a small plant? This, all of this, counts as reward in akhira. Yes praying salah, fasting, zakat, hajj, thats much more important. That shows your devotion. But just because you cannot pray Jum'a or fast in Ramadan does not mean you have forsaken Islam. It just means that you have opportunity to be a better Muslim. Don't think I'm a perfect Muslim. Not by a long shot whatsoever. I am still not at peace with my father's passing, but I'm at a much better place than I was a year ago. You will find that the time is the greatest healer of all things.

Just look at the bigger picture. Plan out your life. Enjoy little things. But man, life is struggle from the day you're born. No one is born happy and laughing. Don't let it burden you to the point of no return and know that you have everything, even when you don't. But you must also help yourself. You should definitely try to seek professional help, despite you thinking it's not an option. Do it for your sake. To the point of listening to Quran. I am of the belief that it can heal you with it's recitation even if you do not understand it's meaning. There has been so many instances, just in Prophet Muhammad's history, that his enemies were dumbstruck when the Quran was being recited. Some of them would sneak out at night and stalk his home, trying to listen to the words being recited. But in the morning they will spit on him and fight him. Sheikh Abdul Basit Abd as-Samad is my favorite Qari. Read this excerpt from his wiki:


Speaking of whom, you should listen to his qirat. It is absolutely amazing, and awe-inspiring. Listen to the Surah Maryam Qirat here

Fantastic post Rusty. We sure do belong to Allah and to Him we shall return.
The Artisan
Member
(12-11-2015, 04:24 AM)
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So on topic of the OT, I just wanna throw out there that when I went to go listen to one of those youtube videos RiZ posted, the "bismillah" part reminded me of how I often said bismillah before smoking marijuana.

and now I think, each time I said "in the name of god..." I was getting high.

Originally Posted by RiZ III

True enough. I personally don't believe the Quran can be used as a magical incantation to cure our illnesses, fears, or depression. Not just hearing it anyways. Without understanding, it's just sounds. Might be pretty sounds, but you could listen to good music for that too. It's with understanding that a connection is made between two parties. If you speak to an animal, all it hears are sounds. It doesn't hear your message, it doesn't hear you. The Quran is no different. It speaks directly to the listener. It's up the the listener to make the effort to really hear it.

I've heard beautiful recitations of Quran in recordings and person, but I only get goosebumps, tears, and a warming of the heart when it's surahs or sections of the Quran I know.

That said, even if you do understand the message, the quality of the recitation certainly makes a difference, that's why it's always had proper methods of recitations for each and every word. When I was rediscovering the Quran, these two surahs and recitations made a particularly strong impact on me. I remember listening to this recitation of surah Duha while driving and breaking down in sobs and tears.

http://youtu.be/BV5Pcr1sLqk
Although directed directly to the Prophet, it speaks to us all in its message. God has done so much for you since you were a child, so why would you think you have been abandoned?

The second is a short recitation of the first 11 verses of surah Luqman. Again this was one of the first few recitations I listened to when I was struggling. It's beautifully recited and also a beautiful summary of basically the whole Quranic message.
http://youtu.be/lxKAUAQ_Vbk

Listening to the Arabic and reading the translation is good, but listening to the translation is much better. It's one thing to passively read "Your lord has neither forsaken you not hated you" and it's another to hear it said to you. It makes a much bigger psychological impact which is why I'd encourage you and everyone really to listen to it with a narrated translation after every verse.

after having listened to those links, I will admit it does sort of speak to me. But a part of me remains skeptic. I think I recall a brother in the ramadan OT saying that he doesn't fully trust the Qur'an because it might've been man-influenced, similarly to the Bible. I don't agree 100% but I think he might have a point.

But you're right. Understanding it does make a difference. I'll have to listen to those verses probably several more times to understand it more and more (and obviously the whole book) and it could come in useful.

At the same time though, while I still stick to Islamic religious rituals, I don't know if I can still call myself a Muslim. I believe in God, I believe it is 1 god that rules and governs the universe and perhaps even friggin parallel universes - I think even then it is the same god throughout any and all existence, but like I was saying in my OP, I don't like how the prophet is put up on a pedestal. Yes he's the exemplar of what a Muslim should be, and we should leave it there. I think sometimes the line is danced on.

Someone else in my thread said as long as I did and believe in the shahadah, I'm a Muslim; I have no quarrel with the first half, but the second half "and Muhammad is the messenger" not that disbelieve it necessarily but I don't value it as much as the first part.

Originally Posted by RustyNails

I just want to tell you that (since you're not even 26), you're at a place where many wish they were. You're young. You have parents who love you. You have a job. Most importantly, you have a strong will to hang on to that "rope of Allah" (as He says it) despite it being very, very difficult, with your depression and what not. Some people have abusive parents. Some don't even have parents. I lost my father to cancer. And this was after staying up night after night praying, making dua with inconsolable crying, reading quran to give him shifa. To no avail. I did not eat anything that day. I buried him with my hands. After that, I just did not understand why. Why him. He was relatively young and quit smoking. He was the most generous man I ever knew, and as well as the most successful man I've ever seen. There was never a begger that was not given charity to by my father if he went to a mosque. Why would Allah take such an honorable and decent man, who taught me everything I know, and gave me everything I wanted? I had no answers. I blindly screamed and shouted at air. I had burning questions. I had doubts. I made lot of sins and regret them.

But I slowly realized that all of us belong to God, and to him we will return. Sooner or later, I'm going to be just a memory too. So will you, and everyone here right now on earth. So what are you doing with the time that's given to you. You are at the prime of your life, and you can achieve anything. But if you don't believe in the deen, the akhira, the divine justice, any meaning you subscribe to life is superficial, no matter how deep and "real". Yes the emotions and feelings are very real, more real than pain. But it all goes away man. Either when we're dead, through passage of time, through medication, therapy, distraction, whatever. It always does. What always stays is the meaning that transcends life itself, and that meaning you hold is your faith in Allah. It's what we leave behind that matters. Have you left the earth a better place than before you came here? Even if it's as simple as planting a tree? Have you fed a poor, hungry man food one time? Heck, did you even water a small plant? This, all of this, counts as reward in akhira. Yes praying salah, fasting, zakat, hajj, thats much more important. That shows your devotion. But just because you cannot pray Jum'a or fast in Ramadan does not mean you have forsaken Islam. It just means that you have opportunity to be a better Muslim. Don't think I'm a perfect Muslim. Not by a long shot whatsoever. I am still not at peace with my father's passing, but I'm at a much better place than I was a year ago. You will find that the time is the greatest healer of all things.

Just look at the bigger picture. Plan out your life. Enjoy little things. But man, life is struggle from the day you're born. No one is born happy and laughing. Don't let it burden you to the point of no return and know that you have everything, even when you don't. But you must also help yourself. You should definitely try to seek professional help, despite you thinking it's not an option. Do it for your sake. To the point of listening to Quran. I am of the belief that it can heal you with it's recitation even if you do not understand it's meaning. There has been so many instances, just in Prophet Muhammad's history, that his enemies were dumbstruck when the Quran was being recited. Some of them would sneak out at night and stalk his home, trying to listen to the words being recited. But in the morning they will spit on him and fight him. Sheikh Abdul Basit Abd as-Samad is my favorite Qari. Read this excerpt from his wiki:


Speaking of whom, you should listen to his qirat. It is absolutely amazing, and awe-inspiring. Listen to the Surah Maryam Qirat here

Well I'm going to be 25 next month, I'm not so young. First of all, Rusty, and to everyone else (still haven't gotten back to many people and I feel horrible about it) I appreciate each and every time you take the time to write these posts to me. Of course your post wasn't just for me it was for everyone in the thread, I'm just saying I appreciate the help, any sort of help and support you and everyone's been giving me. I cannot say it enough.

Second of all, I am very grateful for the things I have. I think about it everyday, it's like the other side of the coin of my depression, only paradoxically one side of the coin is bigger/heavier than the other (the depressive side). I love my parents and I am an only child, I don't know if I mentioned that ever. I'm very, very fortunate and much well off than some poor souls in the world who deserve much better. And I'm sorry to hear about your father's passing...I'll keep you & your family in my duas. I try to always make dua for everyone that I know & care about, even those I don't know by name - everyone who deserves a happier day and ending, I want to do dua to spiritually contribute to it.

Speaking of god, back in college I took a class on Islam and a followup class called, feminine spirituality. On the surface, it was a class comparing I ching to Islam, but in depth, it really was feminine spirituality. Just like yin and yang, there's two sides to god. Tanzih (distance), tashbih (closeness).

God is something so incomprehensible, that no one will ever understand it. That's what makes god distant from us. Infinitely. However, we cannot just leave it at that because that would mean this is a universe without God, nowhere; that's why there's tashbih.

God is everywhere, and closer to us than our jugular vein. We, homo sapien, were created in the image of God. But we can't just leave it at that either because that would mean we are all god-like and gods; obviously that's shirk. That's why there's tanzih.

So there's two sides to God, and together it describes tawhid, the oneness of God. Now the reason I'm ranting about this is that tashbih is parallel to love of God, and tanzih is parallel to the fear of God. Even though I sin a lot and barely practice religion, I fear God but more than I love it. I have watered small plants before and I have done nice things, things that I feel are the right thing to do but they're absolutely minuscule compared to the things others have done. And I'm not at the prime of my life either...well I don't think I will ever have a prime. I would, if I'd have taken better steps in college. But I had one too many missteps and I'll never be there now. I'll never be as happy as I could have been. But that doesn't matter because I can't change the past.

At this point in my life, if I am going to live, it is just because trying to find a way out just isn't the right thing to do, and I fear what will happen to my debts if I'm gone - I fear the burden will be placed on my parents. God isn't making those problems go away. These are things which we in our lives have to take care of ourselves. I don't know if it was facebook or a thread on GAF where I saw some newspaper headline going "GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS" in regards to all the mass murders that took place this year and politicians saying they'll keep the lost ones "in their prayers..."

As for my life right now, what you're saying is the proactive and most sensible thing to do, which is to plan out the near future. Maybe I will get to it, but I don't really want a future, bro...I've never been with a woman as it is I can barely take care of myself, there's no way I'd be able to take care of someone else a significant other in my life, or a child, aka a family. I'm not cut out for this world. I don't belong here, I'm not going to be able to make it a better place. And not every good person has to be here to make a difference, just to fill the world with some positive energy. But the positive energy I can offer is only futile and isn't entirely genuine since most of the time I have a mask on.

Is that really wrong? I mean, if someone is on that mental life support and they just want the cord pulled, is it truly wrong for them to want that?

I will get around to listening to those excerpts you posted, hopefully this weekend. Man, even now I still feel bad for not having responded yet to several people who have reached out to me on the gaf
theecakee
Member
(12-11-2015, 04:27 AM)
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I'm sorry most of the world are assholes to Muslims, it boggles my mind how openly discriminatory people are of peaceful Muslims.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-11-2015, 05:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

As for my life right now, what you're saying is the proactive and most sensible thing to do, which is to plan out the near future. Maybe I will get to it, but I don't really want a future, bro...I've never been with a woman as it is I can barely take care of myself, there's no way I'd be able to take care of someone else a significant other in my life, or a child, aka a family. I'm not cut out for this world. I don't belong here, I'm not going to be able to make it a better place. And not every good person has to be here to make a difference, just to fill the world with some positive energy. But the positive energy I can offer is only futile and isn't entirely genuine since most of the time I have a mask on.

Is that really wrong? I mean, if someone is on that mental life support and they just want the cord pulled, is it truly wrong for them to want that?

Yes it's wrong. And no, you have contributed towards goodness and positivity and you can contribute more.

Your life is not yours to give or take. It was given to you by God. You are being selfish and only looking out for yourself. Sorry to say that, but it's honest. Believe me 25 is young. Let me tell you, I didn't land my first job til I was 27. And I was getting married. I had a ton of worries. I always worried about money and running out of food. Alhamdulillah I bought my first house couple of years ago. God has plan for you too. No soul will be placed a burden more than it can bear. "Nasrun minallahi wa fateeh'un kareeb", or "Help is from Allah and victory is near". God repeats this verse twice (Inna ma'l yusri yusraw": "For indeed, with hardship, there is ease. Indeed, with hardship, there is ease." There is lot of guidance for everyone in the Quran. It helped me out and my mom.

Everyone has debts bro. You are not alone in your struggle.
Kralamoonard
Member
(12-12-2015, 03:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan


At the same time though, while I still stick to Islamic religious rituals, I don't know if I can still call myself a Muslim. I believe in God, I believe it is 1 god that rules and governs the universe and perhaps even friggin parallel universes - I think even then it is the same god throughout any and all existence, but like I was saying in my OP, I don't like how the prophet is put up on a pedestal. Yes he's the exemplar of what a Muslim should be, and we should leave it there. I think sometimes the line is danced on.

Someone else in my thread said as long as I did and believe in the shahadah, I'm a Muslim; I have no quarrel with the first half, but the second half "and Muhammad is the messenger" not that disbelieve it necessarily but I don't value it as much as the first part.

Well you're a Muslim if you still believe in the oneness of Allah and that the Prophet PBUH was the final messenger. So yes, you are a Muslim, even if you are not practicing since you still have the main tenet of faith, the shadah and not committing shirk or disbelieving in the message.

Regarding your point about 'putting him on a pedestal', of course as Muslims we don't believe he is "god-like" or has any familial relations to God, and that statues/pictures of him should not be erected so that there is no risk of idol worshiping etc.

There is also a reason why Allah sent him down as a human; if he had sent down an Angel instead, as humans, we wouldn't be able to follow him as an exemplary Muslim (Surah Al-Anaam, verses 8-10).

However, what you must understand is that as Muslims, we must also acknowledge that like Allah has said, the prophet PBUH is Allah's best creation. Essentially, he is Khayru Khalqillah.

This isn't to say we should start worshiping him, of course that would be committing Shirk, but at the same time, we shouldn't degrade him just to another human being. He was a prophet and messenger, who revealed the final form of Islam (since when you think about it, the "Islam" message was there all along since the time of Adam i.e. submission to the oneness of Allah etc), it's just the final religion if Islam was sent down in its final form through the Prophet's message and Qur'aan. But like I said, that should not mean (like what happened with Jesus being the son of god) that people start painting pictures, erecting statues, giving him divinely characteristics (that are exclusive to Allah). Of course at the end of the day, he was human, not god, who sent down Allah's message, but at the same time, he was also unique in many ways (I'd recommend reading 'The Life of the Messenger' by Tariq Ramadan and various other books and there are various other biographies of the Prophet that go into far much detail in order to truly appreciate what the Prophet achieved and how he lived his life).

I of course tried to answer your concerns to the best of my knowledge and ability, even if it is not perfect, so it would be appreciated if other posters can correct me where I have said something incorrect. Jazakhallah khairan.

I hope you gained something from my post Artisan :)

Originally Posted by theecakee

I'm sorry most of the world are assholes to Muslims, it boggles my mind how openly discriminatory people are of peaceful Muslims.

We appreciate your spirit and post!

On that note, it's still sad that to this day, people can not learn anything that has happened in history regarding the persecution of ethnic groups that are a minority in such societies. In our modern education, at least here in the UK, we study the Holocaust and the persecution of the Jews, to the 'Red Scare' and the persecution of the communists living in America post WW2, and yet it seems it's falling on deaf ears as people aren't seeing not to repeat the same mistakes humanity has committed in the past. That's not to say it's on the same level...at least not yet. but what's to say it won't ever happen one way or another? We've already seen the increased backlash again Muslims after the Paris attacks, and Trumps' rhetoric as a potential President is even more worrying.
fertygo
Member
(12-16-2015, 11:58 PM)
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I hope this is good place to ask

Anyone knew realiable site to do zakat with paypal?

I recently got decent money from internet freelance work and I obligated to do zakat from that income, because that what I ask in my pray, haha
The Artisan
Member
(12-27-2015, 12:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by RustyNails

Yes it's wrong. And no, you have contributed towards goodness and positivity and you can contribute more.

Your life is not yours to give or take. It was given to you by God. You are being selfish and only looking out for yourself. Sorry to say that, but it's honest. Believe me 25 is young. Let me tell you, I didn't land my first job til I was 27. And I was getting married. I had a ton of worries. I always worried about money and running out of food. Alhamdulillah I bought my first house couple of years ago. God has plan for you too. No soul will be placed a burden more than it can bear. "Nasrun minallahi wa fateeh'un kareeb", or "Help is from Allah and victory is near". God repeats this verse twice (Inna ma'l yusri yusraw": "For indeed, with hardship, there is ease. Indeed, with hardship, there is ease." There is lot of guidance for everyone in the Quran. It helped me out and my mom.

Everyone has debts bro. You are not alone in your struggle.

I have to ask, RustyNails, how often have you come across people who have chronic/clinical depression or have had thoughts of wanting to leave this world? I've been talking to a friend of mine who shares a different perspective; it isn't seeing someone being selfish for wanting out, it's that for some reason they're having such a mental struggle that they feel that the only way to relieve themselves is to get out.

Whatever plan God may have for me, if I am living, I don't see it as anything except for more mental torture. It is passed the 19th, so now there is less than a month before I become 25. But I do not want to live to see it. I am happy to hear that things in life has lately been coming in your favor, I really am, but like Kingpin said in daredevil, not everyone deserves a happy ending. I don't think I am one of those people.

By the way, why is it wrong to want out? Just like someone on physical life support, if someone mentally feels like they cannot get any better, why is it wrong?

I am loved, by my family, by a few friends, but as much as I love them too, I more and more don't want to stay aliv. In this life in entertainment, there are many things I am looking forward to; Uncharted 4, Mass Effect 4, Captain America 3, the new Spiderman - Spiderman finally in the MCU - but it's not worth living for. And, I have debts to pay; I only shudder at who would be burdened with them if I am gone. And I know everybody has these debts, but most of them that I know are being responsible adults about it. I am not..

Kralamoonard, sorry to see you got banned man, anybody know if he got hit with a perm or not?
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-27-2015, 06:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by fertygo

I hope this is good place to ask

Anyone knew realiable site to do zakat with paypal?

I recently got decent money from internet freelance work and I obligated to do zakat from that income, because that what I ask in my pray, haha

I usually give portion of my zakat to UNRWA which is a relief agency for Palestinian refugees especially in conflict zones like Syria. It's straightforward and reliable.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-27-2015, 06:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

I have to ask, RustyNails, how often have you come across people who have chronic/clinical depression or have had thoughts of wanting to leave this world? I've been talking to a friend of mine who shares a different perspective; it isn't seeing someone being selfish for wanting out, it's that for some reason they're having such a mental struggle that they feel that the only way to relieve themselves is to get out.

Whatever plan God may have for me, if I am living, I don't see it as anything except for more mental torture. It is passed the 19th, so now there is less than a month before I become 25. But I do not want to live to see it. I am happy to hear that things in life has lately been coming in your favor, I really am, but like Kingpin said in daredevil, not everyone deserves a happy ending. I don't think I am one of those people.

By the way, why is it wrong to want out? Just like someone on physical life support, if someone mentally feels like they cannot get any better, why is it wrong?

I am loved, by my family, by a few friends, but as much as I love them too, I more and more don't want to stay aliv. In this life in entertainment, there are many things I am looking forward to; Uncharted 4, Mass Effect 4, Captain America 3, the new Spiderman - Spiderman finally in the MCU - but it's not worth living for. And, I have debts to pay; I only shudder at who would be burdened with them if I am gone. And I know everybody has these debts, but most of them that I know are being responsible adults about it. I am not..

Kralamoonard, sorry to see you got banned man, anybody know if he got hit with a perm or not?

Man, you really need to stop doing what you're doing and immediately seek help. I won't say anything else because you're dealing with a very, very serious matter and you need professional advice, not from me or anyone else. Call this number right now 1 (800) 273-8255. Please.
The Artisan
Member
(12-27-2015, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by RustyNails

Man, you really need to stop doing what you're doing and immediately seek help. I won't say anything else because you're dealing with a very, very serious matter and you need professional advice, not from me or anyone else. Call this number right now 1 (800) 273-8255. Please.

I'm not going to do anything crazy. Trust me. There's a reason why I was saying, I feel imprisoned (I can't get out even though I want to).
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(12-27-2015, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

I'm not going to do anything crazy. Trust me. There's a reason why I was saying, I feel imprisoned (I can't get out even though I want to).

Just call the number. You will be grateful you did.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(01-06-2016, 06:06 AM)
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Anyone interested in this new Seerah? It's called Revelation





Looks to be really well made and very high quality. I read the Seerah by Martin Lings and even though the amount of information presented was plentiful and at times daunting, it was very hard to follow. I still had trouble identifying the different tribes and their relationships. However this looks like a really well made project. All for the price of...$79.99 ;_;
Se7enSword
Banned
(01-06-2016, 07:52 AM)
السلام عليكم brothers and sisters.

Just stumbled upon this thread!



Originally Posted by RustyNails

Anyone interested in this new Seerah? It's called Revelation





Looks to be really well made and very high quality. I read the Seerah by Martin Lings and even though the amount of information presented was plentiful and at times daunting, it was very hard to follow. I still had trouble identifying the different tribes and their relationships. However this looks like a really well made project. All for the price of...$79.99 ;_;

Looks and sounds great!

Yeah...that price though ;_:
Azih
Member
(01-11-2016, 09:52 PM)
Bumping the thread to bring up a contemporary issue that is of a lot of importance. It is obvious from the latest news from the Middle East that the Cold War between Iran and Saudi Arabia has flared up and also that a lot of Muslim gaffers are on different sides of the issue.

The question isn't who is more right and who is more wrong. There's enough threads to quarrel about that. The question is what can we do to foster unity instead of division as this issue in particular has caused a lot of death, destruction, and bad will and suspicion between people that should be brothers and sisters.
DevilPower
Member
(01-12-2016, 04:02 PM)
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Well I'm of the belief that Shia and Sunni are two sides of the same coin and as long as somebody believes in the oneness on Allah and Muhammad as His prophet then he is indeed a Muslim.
I'm a staunch believer in this and also try to convey this ideology to anybody who I feel is biased against the Shias.
Random_Guy
Member
(01-12-2016, 06:54 PM)

Originally Posted by RustyNails

Anyone interested in this new Seerah? It's called Revelation



Looks to be really well made and very high quality. I read the Seerah by Martin Lings and even though the amount of information presented was plentiful and at times daunting, it was very hard to follow. I still had trouble identifying the different tribes and their relationships. However this looks like a really well made project. All for the price of...$79.99 ;_;

I've bought the book and it's great!

I think the price is justified for the quality it provides. Text books for university are far more expensive and this book is up there in terms of quality.

I had a chance to meet the author when he was in Toronto for the RIS conference. Wonderful man and highly recommend his book.
crazy monkey
holds a masters in liberal arts
(01-13-2016, 12:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Azih

Bumping the thread to bring up a contemporary issue that is of a lot of importance. It is obvious from the latest news from the Middle East that the Cold War between Iran and Saudi Arabia has flared up and also that a lot of Muslim gaffers are on different sides of the issue.

The question isn't who is more right and who is more wrong. There's enough threads to quarrel about that. The question is what can we do to foster unity instead of division as this issue in particular has caused a lot of death, destruction, and bad will and suspicion between people that should be brothers and sisters.

I have personally never differentiate both sect at all. I have prayed with shia as well had many friends. I hate when people create difference and call one side superior to other. No one knows anything and only god knows.
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(01-13-2016, 05:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by SomewhatGroovy

I love your presence on this site, Rusty; always have. When I read this thoughtful post, particularly this excerpt, the only thought that runs through my head is that a lot of what you say can hold true even for people who hold no faith in Allah. Your statement reminded me a lot of what I heard growing up (I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember but had to hide this fact about me while I was growing up in the Middle East). Then again, I have to be reminded that they key word here is 'faith'.

Sorry to hear about your experiences with dad and glad to hear you are doing well and are now here helping others.

Thank you for the words Groovy! I also enjoy your presence on this forum. Few people I stop to read the posts when scrolling through threads :)
effingvic
Member
(01-29-2016, 07:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by RustyNails

Anyone interested in this new Seerah? It's called Revelation





Looks to be really well made and very high quality. I read the Seerah by Martin Lings and even though the amount of information presented was plentiful and at times daunting, it was very hard to follow. I still had trouble identifying the different tribes and their relationships. However this looks like a really well made project. All for the price of...$79.99 ;_;

Ah dude this looks amazing :U The design is fantastic. Really want to add this to my library.
Milksheikhs
Member
(02-12-2016, 08:22 AM)
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So I have a question for anyone who feels like answering. Is there such a thing as loving your family too much? Like as Muslims the idea is to not worship anything but Allah. Sometimes I feel like it's hard to love Allah with the greatest capacity possible and without question. However, when I think of my baby daughter..I love her without question. So I guess to reiterate is there a thing of loving your family too much?
Kisaya
Member
(02-12-2016, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Milksheikhs

So I have a question for anyone who feels like answering. Is there such a thing as loving your family too much? Like as Muslims the idea is to not worship anything but Allah. Sometimes I feel like it's hard to love Allah with the greatest capacity possible and without question. However, when I think of my baby daughter..I love her without question. So I guess to reiterate is there a thing of loving your family too much?

I think you're fine and I wish more families felt that way :)
dropkix
Junior Member
(02-23-2016, 09:17 AM)
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Salaams y'all, whats good?

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