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cHinzo
Member
(11-11-2016, 12:31 AM)
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A 4 drop would have been godly, but 7 drop is fine too. Stats aren't too low, divine shields are typical Paladin stuff and the 7 drop for Paladins is finally filled?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(11-11-2016, 12:37 AM)
High costed paladin minions need to be busted to be useful at all.
Dahbomb
Junior Member
(11-11-2016, 12:37 AM)
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It's actually hilarious that even if you hit two minions with that Battlecry, it's still not as powerful as Dr Balanced stats wise lol. Card is overall fine though.

Warrior card is not that good if it doesn't survive a turn.
Drkirby
Corporate Apologist
(11-11-2016, 12:38 AM)
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New minion is pretty damn good in a vacuum. You can just drop it on an empty board turn 7 for a sizable taunt, and if you can get the effect off on even some 1/1s its likely worth it.

Warrior card is guaranteed to proc at least once, so I think it will see play in a Goons Warrior deck.
Last edited by Drkirby; 11-11-2016 at 12:41 AM.
fertygo
Member
(11-11-2016, 12:44 AM)
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At 7 drop tho, there's no natural curve to it

I guesssss you can curve to Sylvanas/Cairne to that, I really doubt midrange curve pally gonna be any good tho
Levi
Banned
(11-11-2016, 12:49 AM)
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This is kind of like overload -- pay too much for an understatted card to get an overstatted card later.

4/3 is such a terrible statline, I don't know if it's worth extra stats in the late game if you've completely given up the board before then.
ZealousD
Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
(11-11-2016, 01:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

It's actually hilarious that even if you hit two minions with that Battlecry, it's still not as powerful as Dr Balanced stats wise lol. Card is overall fine though.

I think it would actually compete with Dr. Boom if it hit two minions. You and I have agreed that Divine Shield is worth 2.5 health, basically. So, a 6/6 divine shield taunt is slightly better than a 6/8 taunt but not as good as a 6/9 taunt. So by itself, I would say it is a pretty good card that is slightly better than Bog Creeper. That might not be enough to see play in constructed, so that's where the battlecry comes in. We know this battlecry can be good because argent protector is a pretty good card. I think you could probably evaluate the effect as being worth 1 mana for each target it hits. So if it hits 2 targets, that is 9 mana. Dr. Boom has a pretty similar value proposition if you consider a 7/7 to be worth 6 mana and the Boom Bots to be worth 3 mana.

So yeah. He's pretty good. He's Sunwalker at its cost plus an extra stat plus a double argent protector battlecry. And he might prompt hard removal like entomb which opens the door for Tirion.


Edit: I cannot read.
Last edited by ZealousD; 11-11-2016 at 01:25 AM.
Yaboosh
Super Sleuth
(11-11-2016, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by ZealousD

I think it would actually compete with Dr. Boom if it hit two minions. You and I have agreed that Divine Shield is worth 2.5 health, basically. So, a 6/6 divine shield taunt is slightly better than a 6/8 taunt but not as good as a 6/9 taunt. So by itself, I would say it is a pretty good card that is slightly better than Bog Creeper. That might not be enough to see play in constructed, so that's where the battlecry comes in. We know this battlecry can be good because argent protector is a pretty good card. I think you could probably evaluate the effect as being worth 1 mana for each target it hits. So if it hits 2 targets, that is 9 mana. Dr. Boom has a pretty similar value proposition if you consider a 7/7 to be worth 6 mana and the Boom Bots to be worth 3 mana.

So yeah. He's pretty good. He's Sunwalker at its cost plus an extra stat plus a double argent protector battlecry. And he might prompt hard removal like entomb which opens the door for Tirion.


It doesn't have divine shield.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(11-11-2016, 01:23 AM)
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For it to be good, you have to be ahead... it's probably pretty bad and maybe it works with the other new cards but I wouldn't count on it.

There is another 6/6 taunt and that is chillwind. It's hard to call chillwind a good minion without it's text and it only gets played outside of dragon decks due to deathrattle synergy with n'zoth.

I think the paladin card is a win more card and doesn't do enough when you're behind. If you really want to give a minion divine shield, then argent protector is more up your alley. Giving 2 minions divine shield is okay but not likely to happen consistently enough. And 6/6 is too understated when it hits only one minion imo. I kind of don't even think it's that great when you hit 2 minions.

Maybe 1 of in a dopplegangster set? Uh, doubt it.
ZealousD
Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
(11-11-2016, 01:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yaboosh

It doesn't have divine shield.

Oh crap. Totally read that wrong.

Uhhh

Yeah that's not so great anymore. Suddenly it kind of does need to hit two targets to see value.
Dahbomb
Junior Member
(11-11-2016, 01:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by ZealousD

Edit: I cannot read.

Been there done that many times already lol.
QFNS
Member
(11-11-2016, 01:35 AM)
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Yep. Warrior card is just wow, so bad. 4/3 stats and buffs hand minions in a class that probably doesn't care about that.


The paladin one is very close to being good, but is probably not playable in constructed. Maybe you put 1 of as a value late game drop in an aggro/midrange deck, but even that seems not worth it for that cost when you'd rather have Ragnaros, Sylvannas, & co. Will be great in arena though if you get even 1 divine shield. It will show up too since its only a rare.
V-Faction
Member
(11-11-2016, 01:35 AM)
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I will say, the card art and the theme behind Protectorate is amazing. Little dude with the 2 muscle behind him.
BananasWithGuns
Member
(11-11-2016, 01:44 AM)
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Protector seems decent but Paladin's late game is already overflowing currently which probably means it doesn't see much play.

I am not nearly as pessimistic about Gadgeteer as the rest of you though. I think it's a good card if Warrior gets some meaningful stuff to buff.
ZealousD
Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
(11-11-2016, 01:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by QFNS

Yep. Warrior card is just wow, so bad. 4/3 stats and buffs hand minions in a class that probably doesn't care about that.

It's nice with Alley Armorsmith. Looking back through this set I think a lot of people might have missed that Alley Armorsmith has synergy with all of these hand buff cards (myself included).
manhack
Member
(11-11-2016, 01:46 AM)
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Would be interesting if you could get multiple hits off this thing, but not very likely.
Last edited by manhack; 11-11-2016 at 01:49 AM.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(11-11-2016, 01:47 AM)
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The warrior card could be better than people think, because they too can run dopplegangster.
BananasWithGuns
Member
(11-11-2016, 01:48 AM)
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It's kind of crazy that we've seen all but one Paladin card and not a single card for Shaman or Warlock.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(11-11-2016, 01:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by BananasWithGuns

It's kind of crazy that we've seen all but one Paladin card and not a single card for Shaman or Warlock.

They're doing the reveal over three weeks with the three gangs, and each gang is class aligned.

They hinted at some rather unusual new playstyle they wanted to push for Shaman, so they're probably trying to hide that for now. Warlock might have one too.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(11-11-2016, 01:56 AM)

Originally Posted by BananasWithGuns

It's kind of crazy that we've seen all but one Paladin card and not a single card for Shaman or Warlock.

they can't be serious with this. Not even a good deathrattle, not a single cost efficient control spell, nothing. This set is already a miss unless the neutrals come through.
Brawndo Addict
Member
(11-11-2016, 02:08 AM)
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Came back to play a bit in my post-election blues, let's try my hand at Arena.

First match: *Rogue Deathwings me and then draws sprint.*

Never change.


Seriously though how is it that so many people who get a legendary in their draft end up being my first match?
Last edited by Brawndo Addict; 11-11-2016 at 02:10 AM.
Peléo
Member
(11-11-2016, 02:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Familienoberhauptvogel

they can't be serious with this. Not even a good deathrattle, not a single cost efficient control spell, nothing. This set is already a miss unless the neutrals come through.

The Legendary has some potential in control lists. Finja can maybe work as an option to pull the Murlocs from the deck. There is also the (1) 2/2 Deathrattle: Restore 4 Health to both heroes.

But I agree there is not much within the Paladin cards for control achetypes. They went almost all-in on the Buff-Hand style, which makes sense considering the theme of the expansion.
Otnopolit
Member
(11-11-2016, 02:16 AM)
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I'm really liking how different I think the meta will become with the new expansion. Especially considering we don't even have half the cards yet, and ANY meta that isn't Shaman Country is a better meta. (Did I curse us?)
patchday
Member
(11-11-2016, 02:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by ZealousD

Wall of Shame! (Top 20)

oh snap I posted a lot :D
fertygo
Member
(11-11-2016, 02:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Familienoberhauptvogel

they can't be serious with this. Not even a good deathrattle, not a single cost efficient control spell, nothing. This set is already a miss unless the neutrals come through.

Its seems they think they only give pally control stuff at last 2 xpac, so they just want new pally deck instead supporting the old ones, its like reverse warlock situation, I really hope its slow warlock turn to getting card

Pally never gonna had efficient removal btw.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(11-11-2016, 02:37 AM)

Originally Posted by Peléo

The Legendary has some potential in control lists. Finja can maybe work as an option to pull the Murlocs from the deck. There is also the (1) 2/2 Deathrattle: Restore 4 Health to both heroes.

But I agree there is not much within the Paladin cards for control achetypes. They went almost all-in on the Buff-Hand style, which makes sense considering the theme of the expansion.

Oh I completely missed these two.

That's a great deathrattle actually. It should improve certain matchups considerably.

Originally Posted by fertygo

Its seems they think they only give pally control stuff at last 2 xpac, so they just want new pally deck instead supporting the old ones, its like reverse warlock situation, I really hope its slow warlock turn to getting card

Pally never gonna had efficient removal btw.

I'd settle for mediocre removal or some burn that's guaranteed more than 3.
Dahbomb
Junior Member
(11-11-2016, 02:47 AM)
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Wait only one Paladin card remains?

If that new Paladin card isn't something different AND this new Paladin archetype isn't good... Paladins are screwed in the new meta.
Drkirby
Corporate Apologist
(11-11-2016, 02:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

Wait only one Paladin card remains?

If that new Paladin card isn't something different AND this new Paladin archetype isn't good... Paladins are screwed in the new meta.

Yep, one to go unless blizzard messes with ratios. Also both mythical slots seem to be dedicated to the new arch type
BananasWithGuns
Member
(11-11-2016, 02:56 AM)
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All that's left to be revealed for Paladin is one common and the Grimy Goons legendary, Don Han'Cho.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(11-11-2016, 03:00 AM)
Paladin is fucked.
Dahbomb
Junior Member
(11-11-2016, 03:24 AM)
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This is the first time I have seen Blizzard go all in on a class archetype. Usually they have 2-3 archetypes that they try to support for a class in a big expansion.

Even taking Paladin as an example:

GvG: Support for Token based deck, Midrange, Aggro and Mech. Mech wasn't good enough because Cobalt Guardian was an awful card.

TGT: Pushed Control Paladin with stuff like Enter Colisseum plus some aggro support with stuff like Seal of Champions and that Horserider card. Oh and Secret Paladin support.

Old Gods: Pushed Divine Shield Paladin with Steward and Selfless Hero plus Control Paladin with Forbidden Healing and Ragnaros.



For MSG they are going all in on minion hand buff deck. Sure some of the cards can be used in other Paladin archetypes but you can put ALL of them in a single deck because they all support the hand buff minion archetype.
Drkirby
Corporate Apologist
(11-11-2016, 03:31 AM)
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Its likely due to the fact that we will get a another full expansion in 4 months, and these cards are the tail end of the set block.

I hope in the future the individual expansions of set blocks support each other more. It sort of sucks that we will likely never get another C'Thun card, even if that archetype isn't that great.
Last edited by Drkirby; 11-11-2016 at 03:34 AM.
V-Faction
Member
(11-11-2016, 03:55 AM)
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I prefer the all-in approach. When you split mechanics, it doesn't help any of them. Here's your one Mech, here's your Inspire card, here's a C'Thun card.

A focused theme has a stronger foundation. Actually, I wish there were more Tri-Class cards at play here for this very reason. Only 9 in the entire friggin' set and it's the theme.
ZealousD
Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
(11-11-2016, 04:00 AM)
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Trying to come up with a solid midrange version of Snowballadin. It's actually kind of tough. Here's what I came up with.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder...676:1;49677:2;

I don't really like the look of the aggro versions of this deck because it's harder to get value of the grimy goon buffs whenever you are dumping your hand really quickly. Top decking a buffer is awkward. It also starts too slow for aggro I think. If you're aggro you don't want to play a 1/1 on Turn 2.
BananasWithGuns
Member
(11-11-2016, 04:04 AM)
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Dopplegangster is so ridiculous with Evolve that I can't imagine it doesn't become staple either immediately or after the next rotation. 6 mana, two cards to summon three random 6 drops is just nuts. You don't even need to commit to an Evolve deck for that to be a busted combo.
Dahbomb
Junior Member
(11-11-2016, 04:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by BananasWithGuns

Dopplegangster is so ridiculous with Evolve that I can't imagine it doesn't become staple either immediately or after the next rotation. 6 mana, two cards to summon three random 6 drops is just nuts. You don't even need to commit to an Evolve deck for that to be a busted combo.

I feel like it's going to run into the same issue as Onyxia in Evolve decks.

A decent enough chance that you get Baron Geddon and/or Acidmaw that just crushes your own board.
Yaboosh
Super Sleuth
(11-11-2016, 04:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

I feel like it's going to run into the same issue as Onyxia in Evolve decks.

A decent enough chance that you get Baron Geddon and/or Acidmaw that just crushes your own board.


Those are 7 drops.
BananasWithGuns
Member
(11-11-2016, 04:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

I feel like it's going to run into the same issue as Onyxia in Evolve decks.

A decent enough chance that you get Baron Geddon and/or Acidmaw that just crushes your own board.

I don't think the goal would be to double Evolve though, unless the 6 drops you get are pure crap. But the 6 mana slot is generally considered the second best after 8 mana.

I feel like it's going to be Shaman's version of Muster + Quartermaster only sacrificing some consistency for a much higher ceiling.
Dahbomb
Junior Member
(11-11-2016, 04:16 AM)
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Man my dumb streak continues....

6 mana slot is actually very stable so it's safe to Evolve.
ZealousD
Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
(11-11-2016, 04:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

6 mana slot is actually very stable so it's safe to Evolve.

Well, except for Big Time Racketeer.
Celegus
Member
(11-11-2016, 04:27 AM)
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Celegus#1599 on NA if anyone wants to do the 80g play a friend quest quick!

Edit: Gone!
QFNS
Member
(11-11-2016, 04:31 AM)
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Yeah I am very happy they are just trying to push one mechanic so far for each class. There is a reason other CCGs do things that way. Thus set so far has me very hopeful for things going forward. Lots of potential so far. We'll see if it lives up to it.
fertygo
Member
(11-11-2016, 04:38 AM)
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Grimy Goons mechanic sucks tho, not gonna surprised if this faction archetype not played at all
bjaelke
Member
(11-11-2016, 06:11 AM)
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I wonder if they'll finally get around to fixing the Mistcaller interaction with all the focus on hand buffing.
Cat Party
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(11-11-2016, 06:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by bjaelke

I wonder if they'll finally get around to fixing the Mistcaller interaction with all the focus on hand buffing.

What's busted about Mistcaller?
BananasWithGuns
Member
(11-11-2016, 06:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cat Party

What's busted about Mistcaller?

The buff only applies when you draw the card. Was most common with Deathlord but if the card is played from your deck in any way then the buff doesn't apply.
bjaelke
Member
(11-11-2016, 06:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cat Party

What's busted about Mistcaller?

It was supposed to be a persistent buff. Similar to this week's Tavern Brawl. Doesn't matter if you use tracking, pull it from Barnes or you return it to your hand, the Mistcaller buff should still be applied.
zoukka
Member
(11-11-2016, 07:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by fertygo

Grimy Goons mechanic sucks tho, not gonna surprised if this faction archetype not played at all

I dunno, I'm not looking forward in meeting 6/6 Azure drakes or 7/7 Emperors on curve.

Or a 4/9 taunt give millions of armor by warriors.
fertygo
Member
(11-11-2016, 07:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by zoukka

I dunno, I'm not looking forward in meeting 6/6 Azure drakes or 7/7 Emperors on curve.

Or a 4/9 taunt give millions of armor by warriors.

Even reading this already not looked impresive
BananasWithGuns
Member
(11-11-2016, 08:20 AM)
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So thinking a bit more on Dopplegangster and Evolve. The only outright bad results in my opinion would probably be Big-Time Racketeer, Corrupted Seer and Moat Lurker. Even underwhelming stuff like the 4/4's, Kidnapper, etc. isn't all that bad when you're planting three minions on the board. Even if you end up with three 4/4's you're still putting 12/12 worth of stats on the board for 6 mana and 2 cards. Granted it's prone to board clears like Flamestrike but in a lot of instances it probably forces one out as well.

Then you factor in the good stuff like the multitude of 6/6's and the minions with must remove level effects like Kodorider or Illidan along with the absolute bonkers insane stuff like Cairne, Thaurissan, Highmane and Sylvanas and it starts to seem really promising.

I'd have to assume Blizzard tested it pretty extensively so that it's not going to show up on release completely broken but regardless, I'm super hyped for the combo (as if you couldn't already tell).

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