I assumed the ban was wholesale on German media if the media in question was or could be legally argued to be promoting Nazi/volkisch ideologies.
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How Call of Duty: WW2 handles swastikas and female soldiers
- Thread starter nhlducks35
- Start date
I assumed the ban was wholesale on German media if the media in question was or could be legally argued to be promoting Nazi/volkisch ideologies.
benicillin
Banned
This begs the question, has any of the games in the past actually let you play with the swastika in multiplayer? Because apparently CoD and Battlefield never have.
The amount of people who would use the toggle would be so small it's not even worth it.
None that come to mind. Nearly everyone uses the Iron Crosses.
Even Wolfenstien's MP used Iron Crosses.
Straight Edge
Member
I agree with this. Removing the iconography is problematic. It suggest that the symbol itself is the problem with Nazism.
This. Devs are either cowards or cheap bastards who didn't want to make multiple versions of the games multiplayer for multiple regions. Either way, not a good look.
Bornstellar
Member
I think there's an argument to be made for historical authenticity even in MP - but probably not in a game that's going to be filled to the brim with garish weapon skins and such.
This is probably the best solution.
This is probably the best solution.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
That's dumb
People running all over the map at high speeds and shooting each other in the open dressed like clowns is fine. But removing one symbol is going to make people cry out?
I can't even remember the last WWII game that had nazi symbols in multiplayer. Even far more realistic games like Company of Heroes just use the Iron Cross.
Given the real, growing threat of Neo-Nazi hate crime, particularly in the US, the developers have tacitly adopted a duty to not bowlderize the Nazis.
Put another way: when weighing the crimes and associated iconography of the Nazis against the CoD MLG scene, everyone should be more concerned with the former.
benicillin
Banned
So far we've ruled out Call of Duty 2, Battlefield 1942, Company of Heroes, Call of Duty: World At War, and Call of Duty 3.
Which makes me wonder why people are saying they've removed swastikas when as far as I can tell there never have been any!
Yup, all of those dev's are lazy.
Like seriously?
If you google WW2 Multiplayer shooters, ALL OF THEM use the Iron Cross.
There has to be at least ONE major WWII shooter that has used the swastika for multiplayer, right?
There is a multiplayer map Downfall in World at War that takes place at the Reichstag building, that has the swastika on it. Although I think this is a rare case of it actually appearing in the multiplayer. I don't recall any other time.
John Kowalski
Banned
I mean... i'd just take away axis powers from the multiplayer i guess
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Yes, they should.
If given the option, most players would probably check it out.
From a quick google search.
Nope.
Even Wolfenstein's MP used Iron Crosses.
There's this weird illusion in this thread that up until this game, most games used the Swastika in their Multiplayer.
That however, is false.
Yeah, it's as if since those games came out there has been an increase in people who are OK with wearing literal nazi symbols. So now it's suddenly controversial to remove swastikas from multiplayer.
1. Your ability to read sucks. Ctrl+f "lazy" and see if you find it in ether of those posts.
2. Your post is utterly irrelevant to the point being made. If the hammer and sickle is being featured there is no reason not to feature the swastika other than either cowardice or ignorance, regardless of what past games have done. It's always been dumb. Either go all out or don't bother. Ignoring history doesn't change it.
VibratingDonkey
Member
It's weird because you don't really think about the fucked up history? At least I haven't. It's just two teams competing against each other. Hopefully this will be the same deal.
I feel like things are getting disconcerting though, what with actual Nazis and shitheads of that ilk having more of a presence these days.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
None of those games were advertised or hyped as being historically accurate like Call Of Duty: WWII has been.
LOL, no dev will spend their time appeasing nazi role-players. So no toggle.
Camarasketch
Member
Why are they hiding parts of history? I can´t understand...Should we remove nazi symbols from history books in schools as well?? If I have a collection of WW2 scale model tanks on my shelf and some of them are Panzer...do I have to hide them so my children don´t see them? Hmmmm....but then stabbing people in the neck, shooting them in the head or in the balls and enjoying a slow motion cutscene where you feast your perverted eyes looking at how the bullet just destroys the insides of a human being (Sniper Elite) that is totally fine!!yeah!! then you want people to take games seriously....clearly that is what they are, just games for kids.
This isn't even unprecedented really.
WWII PC simulation games omit swastikas all the time, and those games probably stick closer to historical accuracy than any COD. I've seen real documentaries do it too. Part of the reason they don't know if or when these things will be displayed or used in Germany, where that kind of imagery is banned outside outside all but the most serious documentaries or historical materials. And I don't think we should be expecting a great deal of historical accuracy in an MP game like this. Maybe if it was a hardcore sim devoted to showing players how real WWII weapons and operations worked, but that's not what COD is. Even the campaign at best is going to be a Michael Bay version of WWII.
WWII PC simulation games omit swastikas all the time, and those games probably stick closer to historical accuracy than any COD. I've seen real documentaries do it too. Part of the reason they don't know if or when these things will be displayed or used in Germany, where that kind of imagery is banned outside outside all but the most serious documentaries or historical materials. And I don't think we should be expecting a great deal of historical accuracy in an MP game like this. Maybe if it was a hardcore sim devoted to showing players how real WWII weapons and operations worked, but that's not what COD is. Even the campaign at best is going to be a Michael Bay version of WWII.
Exactly! The only reason its a big deal now is because neo nazis have gained traction and want to play as in game nazis. They use arguments such as "this game is PC now" or "SJW have done it again" to mask the fact that they want to relish in the fact that they have an in game portrayal of themselves. They shouldn't be given a voice.
From I what know that applies to tv and movies. When it comes to games it's absolute zero tolerance. No matter any historical background or if it's a complete parody.
Single player is relatively accurate.
Where were the ads talking about historically accurate multiplayer matches?
Oh man, we're still on this, huh? It really shouldn't be such a huge point of contention, especially after how historically inaccurate BF1 is. And apparently COD isn't the first (nor the last) to exclude the Swastika in multiplayer. Mountains out of anthills.
I like this actually. If we're looking for a compromise, this would be it. I think the only reason it doesn't work is it goes against the whole customization that these games have offered for awhile now on both teams (regardless of the actual organizations they represent). But still, I dig this.
I like this actually. If we're looking for a compromise, this would be it. I think the only reason it doesn't work is it goes against the whole customization that these games have offered for awhile now on both teams (regardless of the actual organizations they represent). But still, I dig this.
I bet you get real sad about movies based on true stories.
Edit: That, or I have some really shocking news for you. And you might want to sit down for it.
The cultural and political environment of America is probably one such reason, especially now that Nazism is cool again and people are really concerned about it being cool again.
But nope, the only reason to do this- even in context of the fact that most devs before have done it with nary a complaint- is that Sledgehammer just lacks the character of those who are balls deep in the image of the Nazi swastika.
That's literally the ONLY reason.
Wow, getting right into the insults? Did I insult you? Calm down.
Also I'd argue that while the Hammer and Sickle has tons of horrific things behind it, more countries take issue with the Swastika than the Hammer and Sickle.
Well good they mentioned that they're striving for Historical accuracy in the SP and not the MP.
No it wasn't hyped as that at all. Your just imagining and making things up now to fit your agenda.
It's been hyped and marketed as another COD liked it has been every year.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Hmm, can't find one, but I did find an article that states that the devs approached multiplayer with a different mindset. Specifically that the MP first and foremost is about bringing people together. Here i'll link it.
That's not exactly true. Tv and movies have quite some leeway compared to games.
This is a German parody which aired at prime time:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ieqtd_switch-reloaded-obersalzberg-spion-spies_fun
Despite it having no educational value they didn't run into any problems.
MilkyJoe
Member
Sorry, not too sure what you are saying in reply, there.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
I don't get this. Why is it that you need both? The hammer and sickle is not considered bad imagery.
They don't want to let players control soldiers wearing swasticas.
They're not at all, just from the multiplayer, which isn't and never will be historically accurate anyway. Do you not see how having their usual call of duty skins and goofiness among all the nazi stuff might come off as tasteless? The cod community already take to anti-semite jokes enough as is, letting them dress up as Nazis would add so much fuel to that particular brand of humour. It would have done so much more harm than good
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
They all have been.
And no, there shouldn't be a toggle.
Does anyone else here have a history degree specializing in WW2? Or are you all a bunch of armchair historians whose knowledge starts and ends with Dan Carlin and the History Channel?
Putting the Nazi Swastika and the Hammer and Sickle in the same box is laughable and just shows your ignorance.
Another suspicious thing is how these whiners insist concentrate on how unrealistic is to remove the swastika... while completely glossing over the mountains of other unrealistic stuff. CoD games always took a Hollywood view on history with events and characters being greatly exaggerated and gamified.
Yet it's the goddamn swastika in multiplayer that is suddenly a huge deal breaker. It wasn't much of a problem years ago, but now it's the most important thing to keep in multiplayer, so that edgy kids can roleplay as aryan white only nazis.
Huh. Fascinating. I guess the rise of the alt-right will naturally lead to a lot more people being upset that they can't roleplay as their own Ubermensch Nazi in their favorite games.
Anyway if only actual nazis played as nazis, there wouldn't be enough to make it a game.
Oh for fuck's sake.
They're not hiding the history of WWII.
This game is not apart of the history of WWII.
This game is not the only access key to being able to learn about the history of WWII.
It's a single corporate entertainment product that just so happens to use WWII as an aesthetic backdrop for the same tired game mechanics we played in this franchise the last time. It has absolutely no responsibility to respect Nazi symbolism.
There's plenty of products and places to immerse yourself in the true horrors of WWII if that's what you're really after (although I don't feel like you are.)
Sledgehammer also has nothing to do with Sniper Elite. Even if they had developed the game, the context between wanton violence and Nazi imagery in terms of their sociopolitical ramifications and their cultural context in America are not directly comparable either, so it doesn't work to call them hypocrites on this basis.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Wanting total historical accuracy isn't wanting to role-play as a Nazi or anything along those lines. It's about history and atmosphere, not a sickness.
Haha, good point
They're also not hiding nazi imagery in single player.
All they did was to prevent micspamming, slurs spewing kids from playing pretend nazis in multiplayer.
Because that's the absolutely last thing multiplayer needs. Nazi cosplayers.
Yes, it is about wanting to roleplay as Nazis.
Because that's all people in this thread have concerned themselves about.
The only vision of WWII that gamers suddenly like nowadays is the one where you see swastikas plastered on every surface up to and including every baby's forehead.
But these people were nowhere to be found championing the historical recognition of black people and women within the war and thus their subsequent inclusion.
Y'all are disingenuous as fuck.
Absolutely. Swastikas in German games is not happening, no matter the context. Someone could challenge it legally but no one wants that association
There's absolutely no history and atmosphere in multiplayer. Not among all the 12-year olds throwing around homophobic and racist swearwords while teabagging corpses.
Mixing swastikas into that cesspool would be stupid.