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Phil Spencer responds to Sony's 'dig' at Gamescom

H

Haeralis The BRave

Banned
Hahahaha okay, Spencer. If you guys cared about listening to your fans then you wouldn't have done it in the first place when the reception to the leaks and rumors was overwhelmingly bad. The only reason they changed it was because Sony was selling more.
 
SEGAvangelist

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
slothmoney said:
If Microsoft listens to their customers, then what's Windows 8 all about?

No one asked for that interface.

Or how about the fact that 360 UL is currently about 75% ad space? Did customers ask for that? Pretty sure we keep demanding more room for our actual content.

Seems like a one-way conversation to me.
Click to expand...

Give 8.1 a shot. It's excellent.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
Lmao!

Yeah, whole development, they lied through their teeth.
Post reveal, they tried to sell us shit.
At E3, they basically told us to fuck off, that we know better for you.

It wasn't until pre-orders started that it showed how much they fucked up.

Nice one Spencer.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Coolwhip said:
Was waiting for that. The problem is that MS is not Ford.
Click to expand...

No one wanted an iPod either... a dedicated device only for music? The old slashdot boards railed on the iPod when it was first announced.

Take any innovation, ever. People don't know what they want before they can see it in action. They only know what they've had in the past and how they want that to be incrementally better.
 
B

Bundy

Banned
phosphor112 said:
Lmao!

Yeah, whole development, they lied through their teeth.
Post reveal, they tried to sell us shit.
At E3, they basically told us to fuck off, that we know better for you.

It wasn't until pre-orders started that it showed how much they fucked up.

Nice one Spencer.
Click to expand...
Exactly!
Their feedback = retailers / pre-order numbers / media, etc.
Outrage of the fans worldwide = no feedback for them! They couldn't even give a damn -> see E3
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
Stone Ocean said:
It's a two way conversation.

Except when it's about making a Kinectless SKU, now eat your peas.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why everyone is bitching about this.

Look, it's the start of this gen. They will offer multiple SKUs, one with Kinect, one without, one with Spencer's exclusive t-shirt, one with a fucking Windows Phone ducktaped.

They ain't gonna do it at launch when they are having enough trouble shipping the thing as it is in 13 fucking countries.
 
N

nampad

Member
So where is our Kinect-less SKU for €399 or lower? Why so much shitty TV stuff and not better hardware? Why is everything behind a paywall? How about free online?

Yeah sure, you are listening Phil. Still having that smug grin on your face after you nearly shitted your pants after the backlash.
 
Acquiescence

Acquiescence

Member
SmokyDave said:
Lame response, should've gone with 'Sony's momma is so fat that she can't even change her own fucking socks'. It wouldn't have made any sense, but I'd have laughed.

Half a point for the GAF shout though.
Click to expand...

Sony's momma so fat, when she heard there was an outage she ate all the food in the fridge so it wouldn't go to waste.
 
Philthy

Philthy

Member
Hey, how about releasing an XBox One without Kinect.

Then release another console with Kinect and Oculus Rift with no TV out whatsoever.

The Kinect is cool, you were just using it wrong.
 
S

Sez

Member
Team Vernia said:
Give 8.1 a shot. It's excellent.
Click to expand...

No is not, it's the same thing dressed differently.

I didn't wanted the start button to come back, I wanted the start menu. I don't want more sad faces when my computer BSOD, i want error codes that I don't have to spend 1 hour searching for them on the HD, etc (and 100 more complaints like that that has nothing to do with the thread, so I better stop).
 
S

Shrewder

Neo Member
I greatly enjoyed watching that "friendly" two-way conversation between Angry Joe and Larry Hyrb. I think Larry proved, to everyone, that members of the Xbox division are always willing to engage in an open, respectful and non-aggressive discussion.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
Bundy said:
Exactly!
Their feedback = retailers / pre-order numbers / media, etc.
Outrage of the fans worldwide = no feedback for them! They couldn't even give a damn -> see E3
Click to expand...

I can't even stand "Angry Joe", but seeing what Larry did with that interview with him, snatching the mic away, and telling him that he's not an engineer and you can't just flip a switch... just pissed me off.

The whole situation got 100x better when a few days later they announce that they are reversing the DRM.

The whole thing was just fucking rich.

nampad said:
So where is our Kinect-less SKU for €399 or lower? Why so much shitty TV stuff and not better hardware? Why is everything behind a paywall? How about free online?

Yeah sure, you are listening Phil. Still having that smug grin on your face after you nearly shitted your pants after the backlash.
Click to expand...

Considering that one of the Xbox folk said that Kinect 2 = half of the cost, I'd like to see a Kinect-less one that is less than 400...
 
B

Bundy

Banned
Shrewder said:
I greatly enjoyed watching that "friendly" two-way conversation between Angry Joe and Larry Hyrb. I think Larry proved, to everyone, that members of the Xbox division are always willing to engage in an open, respectful and non-aggressive discussion.
Click to expand...
*Iseewhatyoudidhere*
 
F

Forceatowulf

G***n S**n*bi
Yeah... fan feedback, right. MS knew we hated that DRM shit since the whole Adam Orth incident and they still went full steam ahead. We raised all hell for a month or so and they still went full steam ahead. Then the pre-order numbers came out and they immediately shifted gears once they THEN realized they made a boo-boo. dat fan feedback! lol

Sony was right to stick a shiv in their kidney for their bullshit. They fucking deserved it.
 
gaming_noob

gaming_noob

Member
phosphor112 said:
Lmao!

Yeah, whole development, they lied through their teeth.
Click to expand...

They had to have inherently known what they were doing was wrong to lie to customers like that. If they knew it was the wrong route to take, why did they have to go through it? I hope there's an analytical article of this whole mess some time this gen.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Bundy said:
Exactly!
Their feedback = retailers / pre-order numbers / media, etc.
Outrage of the fans worldwide = no feedback for them! They couldn't even give a damn -> see E3
Click to expand...

Pre-orders are a function of consumer sentiment and the most pure reflection of it. I cannot figure out why that is so hard a concept for some to grasp.
 
D

derFeef

Member
Forceatowulf said:
Yeah... fan feedback, right. MS knew we hated that DRM shit since the whole Adam Orth incident and they still went full steam ahead.

Then the pre-order numbers came out and they immediately shifted gears.... dat fan feedback! Right lol
Click to expand...

Isn't fan feedback low preorder numbers?
 
N

Nerokis

Member
slothmoney said:
If Microsoft listens to their customers, then what's Windows 8 all about?

No one asked for that interface.

Or how about the fact that 360 UL is currently about 75% ad space? Did customers ask for that? Pretty sure we keep demanding more room for our actual content.

Seems like a one-way conversation to me.
Click to expand...

Is this serious?

Windows 8 sucks, but it's part of a larger vision of having a uniform interface across products. It focuses on how people are increasingly interacting with interfaces (touch screens) than how most PC users do, but 8.1 seems to alleviate the problems somewhat. It's incredibly overly simplistic to hold up Windows 8 as proof that Microsoft doesn't factor in customer feedback.

Same with the ad space thing. No customer has ever asked a company to monetize through advertisements, and it's probably a tiny minority that even cares.

Nerfgun said:
Meh. He said hat he had to.

Except for repeating "two way conversation". As if there's another kind ;)
Click to expand...

"Two way conversation" is actually a thing.

http://www.impactbnd.com/social-media-marketing-the-importance-of-a-two-way-conversation/
 
purpletentacle

purpletentacle

Member
Team Vernia said:
Give 8.1 a shot. It's excellent.
Click to expand...

Doubtful, since I'm a Mac user.

Although, I'm aware of the changes, and I agree they are better. Although the lack of a proper Start button is a pretty big FU.

My point is that the Microsoft of late has this attitude of "We know better than you want you want," which leads to a bunch of products that miss the mark (sometimes in spectacular ways.) If there was a true two way conversation happening, you wouldn't get incidents like Adam Orth.

Its a shame because they have a lot of bright and talented people working there.
 
R

RobotRocker

Member
Acquiescence said:
Sony's momma so fat, when she heard there was an outage she ate all the food in the fridge so it wouldn't go to waste.
Click to expand...

Sony's Momma so fat, when she walked into Gamescom, everyone thought she was the paywall.

Sony's momma so fat, everyone thought the support they were giving indies was the crane she was carried in on.

Sony's momma so fat, it takes the same time to get around her as it did to develop Gran Turismo 5.

Phil Spencer, call me. We can work a deal out.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
gaming_noob said:
They had to have inherently known what they were doing was wrong to lie to customers like that. If they knew it was the wrong route to take, why did they have to go through it? I hope there's an analytical article of this whole mess some time this gen.
Click to expand...

A post mortem would be great, but, I doubt we'll ever see one.

The PS4 and their whole thing with Cerny is basically PS3's post mortem... that's why everyone is so confident with Sony now. They showed how they fucked up and how they fixed it. I just don't expect MS to ever have that level of transparency.
 
A

ari

Banned
The same posters in every x1 thread pooping up the place. Damn, we get it, you prefer the ps4. Yeesh!
 
1

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
“The two-way conversation we have with our customers is a strength. Certain people have tried to turn that into something that's a bad thing about what we're trying to do, and I just disagree."
Click to expand...

Way to completely miss the point of Sony's criticism, Phil. Or avoid it I should say.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
phosphor112 said:
A post mortem would be great, but, I doubt we'll ever see one.

The PS4 and their whole thing with Cerny is basically PS3's post mortem... that's why everyone is so confident with Sony now. They showed how they fucked up and how they fixed it. I just don't expect MS to ever have that level of transparency.
Click to expand...
...aren't there actually number of books about the development of the Xbox and Xbox 360? 'Never have that level of transparency'?
 
C

Coolwhip

Banned
CosmicQueso said:
No one wanted an iPod either... a dedicated device only for music? The old slashdot boards railed on the iPod when it was first announced.

Take any innovation, ever. People don't know what they want before they can see it in action. They only know what they've had in the past and how they want that to be incrementally better.
Click to expand...

I meant that most recent MS products have been misses.
 
H

HocusPocus

Member
The absolute hate for this company since they enterered the console business has been interesting to watch. No matter what they say they get bashed ahah. It's kind of fun and sad at the same time.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Coolwhip said:
I meant that most recent MS products have been misses.
Click to expand...

Most new products are misses. Doesn't mean companies should stop trying. You only need 1 out of 10 ideas to hit to be successful.

(BTW... Windows Phone is one that absolutely should be a hit that hasn't gotten there yet. C'est la vie)

CF22 said:
Let me rephrase what I said. Microsoft do not make changes based on consumer feedback, they make changes where they see monetary gain.
Click to expand...

Again, same thing.
 
purpletentacle

purpletentacle

Member
Nerokis said:
Is this serious?

Windows 8 sucks, but it's part of a larger vision of having a uniform interface across products. It focuses on how people are increasingly interacting with interfaces (touch screens) than how most PC users do, but 8.1 seems to alleviate the problems somewhat. It's incredibly overly simplistic to hold up Windows 8 as proof that Microsoft doesn't factor in customer feedback.

Same with the ad space thing. No customer has ever asked a company to monetize through advertisements, and it's probably a tiny minority that even cares.
Click to expand...

Okay, and their attempt to "unify" the Windows visual experience has scared an already large part of their user-base from never upgrading. 37% of their user base is still on XP.

But then there is this larger question: of if there anything really wrong with the Window's interface to being with?

My answer, and the general consensus of the tech community's, would be no. MS saw the business touch-interfaces were doing and needed to find a way to bring that "success" over to their dwindling windows brand. As a result we got Windows 8 and the Surface. Windows 8 is far from a failure, but the Surface is. As are sales of touch-screen based laptops - somethings Windows 8 tries to push on the customer for optimal usage.

More to the point, if MS was actually unifying their interfaces to Metro then wouldn't the 360 interface be more customizable like Win Phone 8 or the Win 8 start screen? Instead, were stuck with a home screen that's loaded with adds and our "pins" are hidden behind a button. Not to mention, some of us (myself included) PAY for this service. We pay to have OUR console riddled with ads, while our stuff is forced off into submenus and sub screens.

I'd love to believe in their grand vision as well, but I just don't see it.

CosmicQueso said:
So you have no hands on experience with Windows 8, yet rail against it. Got it. thisisneogaf.gif
Click to expand...

Right, exactly. I neither work in the tech industry where I use PC's on day-to-day. Nor does a member of my family work for Microsoft where I get all of these products at the company discount. It's not like Macs have some method of dual booting Windows. I've also, since we're clearing the air, never been to a Microsoft press event. Because, again, I don't live/work in that world.

Does that make you feel better? Anything else I should know about myself since I can't have an opinion based on the platform my workflow exists on.
 
S

Spongebob

Banned
phosphor112 said:
Lmao!

Yeah, whole development, they lied through their teeth.
Post reveal, they tried to sell us shit.
At E3, they basically told us to fuck off, that we know better for you.

It wasn't until pre-orders started that it showed how much they fucked up.

Nice one Spencer.
Click to expand...
Pretty much.
 
D

Ding-Ding

Member
CosmicQueso said:
Pre-orders are a function of consumer sentiment and the most pure reflection of it. I cannot figure out why that is so hard a concept for some to grasp.
Click to expand...

Why do you find it hard to grasp that there are many forms of gauging consumer sentiment, not just pre-orders.

The problem MS have is that was the only one they bothered to listen to. Up till then they just cut interviews at E3 and when they did speak, they just talked about Titanfall & Nuclear Subs.

Their policies were half the problem. Their arrogance covered the rest
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Ding-Ding said:
Why do you find it hard to grasp that there are many forms of gauging consumer sentiment, not just pre-orders.

The problem MS have is that was the only one they bothered to listen to. Up till then they just cut interviews at E3 and when they did speak, they just talked about Titanfall & Nuclear Subs.

Their policies were half the problem. Their arrogance covered the rest
Click to expand...

Nothing outside of pre-orders matters. People say lots of negative things about lots of products, but they keep buying them. How many times have you heard people say how much AT&T service sucks on their iphones... but does it matter? People keep using AT&T on their iphones. People could say they didn't like the Xbox One policies, but they could have still pre-ordered the console, which would have said that the complaints were only surface level. And what does it all matter anyways? The policies have been reversed. What difference does it make what lever was pulled to make that happen?
 
R

RedNumberFive

Banned
I think you guys are being a little rough on Microsoft. I think we all need to remember that this is a console poised to over-deliver value for the consumer. In this day and age I find that to be unprescedented.
 
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