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My Little Pony FiM Community [OT3] Surely You Saw This Coming

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SigmasonicX

Member
Alright, it's time to open up voting for the season 6 episode guide! Here's where last year's voting started, for reference. As a reminder, the guide will provide two levels of recommendations: episodes that people simply think are worth watching (recommended), and the episodes that are the bare minimum for watching the season (important), with the starting assumption that the finale is necessary (otherwise nothing is really important). I decide the important episodes from the start, but it's open for discussion, and I may change them. The recommended episodes, on the other hand, will be voted on. Using the episode guide I posted below, mark in bold episodes you would recommend, using any metric you like. I'll then create a draft guide based on the votes, which will then be adjusted based on responses.

I don't believe any previous season guides have to be changed. Notable possible changes are to make "Boast Busters" required for introducing Trixie, and at least noting that "Dragon Quest" introduces Garble. For the former, I think Trixie pops up enough in recommended episodes and screencaps that a new watcher that skips those episodes won't be confused by her appearing in "No Second Prances". For the latter, I think it will be fine to have a note under "Gauntlet of Fire".

For the important episodes, starting from the assumption that "To Where and Back Again" is important, then we need "The Times They Are a Changeling" for Thorax. "No Second Prances" is an open question, because I think going into the finale without knowing how Starlight and Trixie became friends could be confusing, but would leaving a note about it in the guide be enough? I'll list it as important for now. With Thorax's intro including Flurry Heart and Sunburst, that means "The Crystalling" is important too. With "Newbie Dash", though Rainbow does finally become a Wonderbolt, it isn't presented as a big enough deal in the rest of the season, I feel.

Anyway, my list, with the important episodes underlined and recommended episodes in bold.

1-2. The Crystalling
3. The Gift Of Maud Pie
4. On Your Marks
5. Gauntlet of Fire
6. No Second Prances
7. Newbie Dash
8. A Hearth's Warming Tail
9. The Saddle Row Review
10. Applejack's "Day'' Off
11. Flutter Brutter
12. Spice Up Your Life
13. Stranger Than Fan Fiction
14. The Cart Before the Ponies
15. 28 Pranks Later
16. The Times They Are a Changeling
17. Dungeons and Discord
18. Buckball Season
19. The Fault in Our Cutie Marks
20. Viva Las Pegasus
21. Every Little Thing She Does
22. P.P.O.V. (Pony Point of View)
23. Where the Apple Lies
24. Top Bolt
25-26. To Where and Back Again

Even after my season overall post back in the OT thread, I was surprised to see there were choices I had to leave out to remain at 10 non-two-parter episodes. Specifically, "Every Little Thing She Does".
 
P

PaulloDEC

Member
I think your mandatory choices are on-point. Premiere for being a premiere, finale for being a finale, Prances for setting up Trixie and Starlight, Times for setting up Thorax.

As for the rest:

1-2. The Crystalling
3. The Gift Of Maud Pie
4. On Your Marks
5. Gauntlet of Fire
6. No Second Prances
7. Newbie Dash
8. A Hearth's Warming Tail
9. The Saddle Row Review
10. Applejack's "Day'' Off
11. Flutter Brutter
12. Spice Up Your Life
13. Stranger Than Fan Fiction
14. The Cart Before the Ponies
15. 28 Pranks Later
16. The Times They Are a Changeling
17. Dungeons and Discord
18. Buckball Season
19. The Fault in Our Cutie Marks
20. Viva Las Pegasus
21. Every Little Thing She Does
22. P.P.O.V. (Pony Point of View)
23. Where the Apple Lies
24. Top Bolt
25-26. To Where and Back Again

More than enough good stories to choose from this year IMO.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
DemWalls said:
Well, this is pretty dope. If you like the genre, at least.


(I'll post my list in the coming days... maybe)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't too big a fan of the original, but that remix of "Legend of Everfree" is pretty fun.

Zelda: Majora's Mask comic - Armageddon (Starlight as Young Link, Trixie as Tatl)

The DnD+MLP comic Friendship is Dragons is handling Gilda in an interesting way. A few pages ago, Dash's player's friend came over, created Gilda for a session, and got annoyed at how no one is playing optimally and is placing roleplaying above gameplay. She got especially annoyed by Pinkie's player, and in the newest page, decided to show her how to create a good bard...

EDIT: PMV - The Truth. Visuals aren't that cohesive, but I like the song.

EDIT: New song by that guy, a cover of "The Spectacle" from season 5's "The Mane Attraction".
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Is no one else going to vote? It can't just be me and Paullo.

2Snacks warning about people impersonating him at cons, since he has never been to one and isn't even in the US. Also confirms that he is actually working on a new Two Best Sisters Play! For those unfamiliar.

And speaking of returns, the first My Little Kindergarten comic in what feels like a while

Nice cover of "Poor Unfortunate Souls" from The Little Mermaid (Ursula's song), as sung by Starlight.

Older video, but I just saw this commercial for Guardians of Harmony. It's interesting that they actually call them action figures and emphasize action.

Narrow gauge adventure
Incandescence
NarrowgaugeadventurebyUlyanovetz1478208374510.jpg
IncandescencebyNoctilucentArts1478208374468.png


Also, ED's review of Guardians of Harmony toys: Shining Armor and Shadowbolt + Cockatrice.
 
D

DemWalls

Member
F***ing finally

LufA2wR.jpg
Click to expand...

Anyway, here's my list:

1-2. The Crystalling
3. The Gift Of Maud Pie
4. On Your Marks
5. Gauntlet of Fire
6. No Second Prances
7. Newbie Dash
8. A Hearth's Warming Tail
9. The Saddle Row Review
10. Applejack's "Day'' Off
11. Flutter Brutter
12. Spice Up Your Life
13. Stranger Than Fan Fiction
14. The Cart Before the Ponies
15. 28 Pranks Later
16. The Times They Are a Changeling
17. Dungeons and Discord
18. Buckball Season
19. The Fault in Our Cutie Marks
20. Viva Las Pegasus
21. Every Little Thing She Does
22. P.P.O.V. (Pony Point of View)
23. Where the Apple Lies
24. Top Bolt
25-26. To Where and Back Again
 
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PaulloDEC

Member
So is it just me who's only now hearing that the MLP movie screenplay was co-written by Rita Hsiao, who worked on the screenplays for Toy Story 2 and Mulan?

Because both of those movies are awesome.

DemWalls said:
F***ing finally

LufA2wR.jpg
Click to expand...

I really like the design of these. If I were a bigger EQG fan I'd probably buy a few.
 
D

DemWalls

Member
PaulloDEC said:
I really like the design of these. If I were a bigger EQG fan I'd probably buy a few.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's why I bought them. I probably would have even if I weren't into MLP, they're quite nice. Even the quality isn't too bad for the 8 bucks they cost, although it's nearly impossible to make them stand still.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
PaulloDEC said:
So is it just me who's only now hearing that the MLP movie screenplay was co-written by Rita Hsiao, who worked on the screenplays for Toy Story 2 and Mulan?

Because both of those movies are awesome.
Click to expand...

Before that, as far as we knew, it was just Meghan McCarthy working on the script after that Ice Age 4 guy was dropped. This is a pretty good pickup, but I notice that she hasn't actually written anything after those two movies. I wonder what's the story behind this, then.

In other minor movie news, though it's been suspected for a while, confirmation that the movie is using Toon Boom, or rather a variation called Harmony.

Another official Equestria Girls Minis CGI short (and I do mean short) about a pillow fight. It's kind of cute.

Moonstuck Halloween comic! Though it's a week late.
tumblr_og7glfGt0t1r5mwwuo1_1280.png


Freedom From Want MLP Edition - Art from an IDW comic cover artist. I think I know where Scootaloo is...
Pixiv Pinkie art
Flutterwind
Shy Smile (actually Moon Dancer)
FreedomfromwantMLPeditionbyMaryBellamy1478298677044.jpg
byakainu71478298678451.png
FlutterwindbyNCMares1478389931484.png
ShySmilebySorcerusHorserus1478468052013.png


And some super detailed art
A Stag of Change
Flame On - It's remarkable that this one moment from "Feeling Pinkie Keen" is still getting art.
AStagofChangebyAssasinMonkey1478468052068.png
FlameOnIllustrationforDiscordsFriendzybyTsitra3601478468051322.png
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
PaulloDEC said:
So is it just me who's only now hearing that the MLP movie screenplay was co-written by Rita Hsiao, who worked on the screenplays for Toy Story 2 and Mulan?

Because both of those movies are awesome.
Click to expand...
SigmasonicX said:
Before that, as far as we knew, it was just Meghan McCarthy working on the script after that Ice Age 4 guy was dropped. This is a pretty good pickup, but I notice that she hasn't actually written anything after those two movies. I wonder what's the story behind this, then.
Click to expand...

Co-writing (usually) means that someone tried to make a rewrite pass.

Joss Whedon technically co-wrote Toy Story 1 and Titan AE. It doesn't really mean a lot, not unless you're the last co-writer, which Joe Ballarini and Rita Hsiao haven't been. They could be better or worse writers than their co-writing credits suggest.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Anyone else going to vote? I'll tally things up later this week, but I'd prefer to get a few more opinions before moving to the next step.

I'll also check again to see if there's more interest in a round robin story. That is to say, given a prompt, each person who signs up writes part of the story (a relatively short section), but with the twist that the person can only look at the section immediately before theirs. This means that quality of writing won't be a big issue, since the story is guaranteed to get off track no matter what. But it also isn't very effective with just two people. We can make the story about Celestia and Cheerilee.

Actor/musician Billy Bob Thornton mentioned MLP in an interview, talking about "The Cutie Map" and getting details wrong in a way that shows he watched other episodes too.

Comics
Dinky's First Crush - posting because this is an unexpected pairing, and from the comments, apparently already had at least one other fan before this.
The Nemesis of My Nemesis - About the ending of season 6 finale

I'm in my happy place
Bows and stuff - I thought it was Applejack at first, but it's an OC. The pegasus is still Flitter.
Fluttery Day
Best Dream Ever
Iminmyhappyplacebyharwicksart1478816183660.jpg
BowsandstuffbyMilchik1478899833051.png
FlutteryDaybyBugplayer1478899831725.png
Bestdreameverbyleviru1478899830795.png


Gabby the Gray Griffon Gazing at Griffonstone - great Gabby custom model
Marceline and PB - Adventure Time custom models
GabbytheGrayGriffonGazingatGriffonstonebyPrototypeSpaceMonkey1478901410336.jpg
MarcelineandPBbykrowzivitch1478901413244.jpg
 
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PaulloDEC

Member
SigmasonicX said:
In positive news, The Moon Rises has finally been fully released! The backgrounds and effects are great, but I don't know, Luna is kind of wonky looking.

Also sort of acts as a preview for how the movie could look, since it also uses Toon Boom.
Click to expand...

Impressive as a fanwork, but yeah, it's clearly a fanwork.Kudos for the time and effort involved, though.

SigmasonicX said:
Marceline and PB - Adventure Time custom models
GabbytheGrayGriffonGazingatGriffonstonebyPrototypeSpaceMonkey1478901410336.jpg
MarcelineandPBbykrowzivitch1478901413244.jpg
Click to expand...

Oh man, this guy/gal is still at it? I love their models, they always look fantastic.

Rhomega Beta said:
Sorry, but I've missed a few episodes. Waiting for them to be put up on Netflix before watching them.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should give people a little more time to catch up before we tally?
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
PaulloDEC said:
Oh man, this guy/gal is still at it? I love their models, they always look fantastic.
Click to expand...
They did a big figure dump in October, so there's a bunch more on their DeviantArt page.

Perhaps we should give people a little more time to catch up before we tally?
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting we make the episode guide out of the current votes, I'm just going to post what the total is now. This may encourage more people to vote for certain episodes that aren't well-represented. Still, if people really are waiting to watch episodes on Netflix, it's fine to wait until then.

ED is doing episode rewatch posts again, this time covering "The Return of Harmony", and I'd like to address some of the stuff they bring up.

I remember the "Sweetie Belle is a dictionary" meme, but it was forced from the start and never really picked up much steam. Kind of surprised the article didn't mention the chocolate rain stuff (thought to be a reference to the "Chocolate Rain" song meme), since that was a scene that got pointed out in non-brony videos about the show. I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, this episode really was the first appearance of the stained glass windows, wasn't it?

Calpain briefly mentions the way Discorded ponies spread throughout the fandom. That is, applying Discord's mindwarping of the Main Six to other characters. Back in the day, I wasn't a fan of this, since the Discorded versions of ponies were often just edgy and grimdark, and frequently NSFW. The one that sticks out in my head is Ask Discorded Dr. Whooves. Now Tom, however, that was and is a great meme. "Spike, you're the new Rainbow Dash," was also a pretty forced meme.

Actually, come to think of it, Dictionary Sweetie Belle and Rainbow Dash Spike aren't that different from the Princess of Flying gag from "Top Bolt", which also got a fair amount of art and comics. The difference is that back in the day, every one-episode meme was greatly amplified to be a series-wide meme, or at least people tried to force them to be. There was a good chance for any meme that naturally has a lifespan of one week to become pushed to last longer and get an article on Know Your Meme, which no longer really happens. I think. I don't actually look there anymore.

Twilight being saved by Celestia's letters was definitely a mindblowing moment, in that no one expected the show to be that meta or have that much continuity. The fact that "The Best Night Ever" actually had the Grand Galloping Gala was similarly unexpected. Then "Lesson Zero" happened and some people were worried that it was getting too meta, but that's for later.

Calpain brings up how we didn't actually know much about Twilight's magic back then, and indeed, I recall how this was the very first time Twilight was depicted using a barrier spell. Up until "Ponyville Confidential", where Twilight used a barrier on her house to keep the CMC out, people were unsure if she could actually make them on her own or if it was an Elements of Harmony thing. I was going to make a point about how Twilight didn't use much magic in seasons 1 and 2 besides telekinesis and teleportation, but no, there was stuff like her Want It Need It spell in "Lesson Zero" and transformation spells in "The Best Night Ever" (to turn mice into horses). Still, it does feel like she has a more consistent set of spells now. IIRC, she didn't even start firing energy blasts until "A Canterlot Wedding", and now she's doing that all the time.

And there's the Star Wars ending reference. Personally, I was never actually that big a fan, and thought it was too on the nose. The article talks about these references becoming more frequent, but I can't recall another scene that's entirely a reference like that, just cameos.

The article doesn't go much into the views of Discord at the time, but it was common for fandom Discord to be an absolutely evil villain, or something incomprehensible to mortals. See Moonstuck for an example of this, and my previous mention of Discorded ponies. It wasn't until after he turned good in the show that people seriously entertained the idea of him turning good, IIRC. Now, we know that ponies take surprisingly little offense to mind control, and most of Discord's actions can thus be viewed less maliciously and more like those of a child. The stained glass window of Discord holding ponies over an open flame is still hard to reconcile, though.

EDIT: Oh hey, the Children of Everfree blog updated! I don't expect this to last.
 
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PaulloDEC

Member
Those figures blow me away every time. The level of detail and the quality of the finish is a cut above anything else I've seen in the fandom.

As for Return of Harmony, I guess I kinda missed out on all the early fandom memes. By the time I started getting involved with the community I'd already powered through all of Seasons 1 and 2, so some of this stuff I'm hearing about for the first time.

Agreed on that Star Wars bit, though. A little indulgent.
 
S

Sciz

Member
SigmasonicX said:
I was going to make a point about how Twilight didn't use much magic in seasons 1 and 2 besides telekinesis and teleportation, but no, there was stuff like her Want It Need It spell in "Lesson Zero" and transformation spells in "The Best Night Ever" (to turn mice into horses).
Click to expand...

There's a tremendous amount of potential in the Come to Life spell she used in Winter Wrap Up that's gone completely untapped by the show and fandom alike.
 
S

ShinySylvee

Member
SigmasonicX said:
They did a big figure dump in October, so there's a bunch more on their DeviantArt page.


I'm not suggesting we make the episode guide out of the current votes, I'm just going to post what the total is now. This may encourage more people to vote for certain episodes that aren't well-represented. Still, if people really are waiting to watch episodes on Netflix, it's fine to wait until then.

ED is doing episode rewatch posts again, this time covering "The Return of Harmony", and I'd like to address some of the stuff they bring up.

I remember the "Sweetie Belle is a dictionary" meme, but it was forced from the start and never really picked up much steam. Kind of surprised the article didn't mention the chocolate rain stuff (thought to be a reference to the "Chocolate Rain" song meme), since that was a scene that got pointed out in non-brony videos about the show. I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, this episode really was the first appearance of the stained glass windows, wasn't it?

Calpain briefly mentions the way Discorded ponies spread throughout the fandom. That is, applying Discord's mindwarping of the Main Six to other characters. Back in the day, I wasn't a fan of this, since the Discorded versions of ponies were often just edgy and grimdark, and frequently NSFW. The one that sticks out in my head is Ask Discorded Dr. Whooves. Now Tom, however, that was and is a great meme. "Spike, you're the new Rainbow Dash," was also a pretty forced meme.

Actually, come to think of it, Dictionary Sweetie Belle and Rainbow Dash Spike aren't that different from the Princess of Flying gag from "Top Bolt", which also got a fair amount of art and comics. The difference is that back in the day, every one-episode meme was greatly amplified to be a series-wide meme, or at least people tried to force them to be. There was a good chance for any meme that naturally has a lifespan of one week to become pushed to last longer and get an article on Know Your Meme, which no longer really happens. I think. I don't actually look there anymore.

Twilight being saved by Celestia's letters was definitely a mindblowing moment, in that no one expected the show to be that meta or have that much continuity. The fact that "The Best Night Ever" actually had the Grand Galloping Gala was similarly unexpected. Then "Lesson Zero" happened and some people were worried that it was getting too meta, but that's for later.

Calpain brings up how we didn't actually know much about Twilight's magic back then, and indeed, I recall how this was the very first time Twilight was depicted using a barrier spell. Up until "Ponyville Confidential", where Twilight used a barrier on her house to keep the CMC out, people were unsure if she could actually make them on her own or if it was an Elements of Harmony thing. I was going to make a point about how Twilight didn't use much magic in seasons 1 and 2 besides telekinesis and teleportation, but no, there was stuff like her Want It Need It spell in "Lesson Zero" and transformation spells in "The Best Night Ever" (to turn mice into horses). Still, it does feel like she has a more consistent set of spells now. IIRC, she didn't even start firing energy blasts until "A Canterlot Wedding", and now she's doing that all the time.

And there's the Star Wars ending reference. Personally, I was never actually that big a fan, and thought it was too on the nose. The article talks about these references becoming more frequent, but I can't recall another scene that's entirely a reference like that, just cameos.

The article doesn't go much into the views of Discord at the time, but it was common for fandom Discord to be an absolutely evil villain, or something incomprehensible to mortals. See Moonstuck for an example of this, and my previous mention of Discorded ponies. It wasn't until after he turned good in the show that people seriously entertained the idea of him turning good, IIRC. Now, we know that ponies take surprisingly little offense to mind control, and most of Discord's actions can thus be viewed less maliciously and more like those of a child. The stained glass window of Discord holding ponies over an open flame is still hard to reconcile, though.
Click to expand...

I haven't watched ALL of the episodes yet (I skipped over Applejack's day off, Flutter Brutter, and 28 Pranks Later. I also watched through part of Buckball Season, The Fault in Our Cutie Marks, and Where the Apple Lies partway before giving up on them because I didn't like them. All of that being said, here's my thoughts:

Plot important episodes that need to be watched to understand what's going on:
The Royal Crystalling
Gauntlet of Fire (Potentially if they actually follow up on it in future seasons)
No Second Prances
The Times They Are a Changeling
To Where and Back Again

Overall strong episodes that should be watched:
Gauntlet of Fire (Still a good episode even if it's never brought up again)
A Hearth's Warming Tail
The Saddle Row Review
Stranger then Fan Fiction
Dungeons and Discords
Every Little Thing She Does
Top Bolt


On to your discussion of Return of Harmony. For a lot of people Return of Harmony was the first episode they ever saw as it aired and as a whole Season 2 was the first season a lot of people saw new. And I can't speak for everyone but a LOT of the people that discovered it in time for season 2 found it because they saw memes featuring the show. I myself gave the show a shot due to a "Guile's Theme Goes With Everything" video showing Rainbow doing the Sonic Rainboom. And most the people I know found the show in the same way. The show got as big as it was because it was used frequently in memes, so meme culture coming from the show is inevitable. And I won't go through all your examples but generally speaking I agree that most of the meme culture surrounding the show is forced as hell and not all that funny. The combination of the show becoming popular among older audiences due to the memes and season 2 being the first one they saw as it aired with the rest of the community naturally resulted in a TON of memes from season 2.

Couple paragraphs in and we're still dissecting memes. Didn't know this was a meme review post ;) Generally speaking yeah I feel like people went way overkill on a lot of the early memes and ran them hard into the ground. That being said that's how meme culture always works there's always people that don't get tired of the same reference being made over again and keep bringing it up ad nauseam to the point where even people that originally enjoyed it grow to hate it. Generally speaking I think most of the memers moved on to other things which is why they're a lot more tame and shorter-lasting now. It's actually hard to find MLP being the source of anything meme related these days whereas back in its heyday the show was everywhere. For the most part I feel like the people that still watch the show and follow the fandom have an enduring love for the show rather then just watching it because it was a meme. (Or they're Dr Forester and from what I can tell are only following it with the vain hope that one day Celestia will be useful) Returning to the show after watching it occasionally for the past couple years I feel like the community has matured quite a bit and it's a lot more pleasant to follow then it was back in the day.

I think the Letters from Celestia part is still one of my favorite moments ever in the show. Twilight losing faith in her friends is right up there with everyone turning on her in Canterlot wedding as the lowest that any character in the show has gotten. And the letters were such a great way to turn things around. It's really hard for me not to get teary eyed watching that scene. That being said it did sort of show the beginning of a trend that has continued and gotten even more massive as the show has gone on, and that is a larger focus on continuity. Try to imagine how difficult it would be to explain the first five minutes of The Royal Crystalling to someone that hadn't watched the show past season one. Overall the show isn't hard to follow if you've watched most of the episodes already but for someone jumping into the show's later seasons (Especially season 6 since they've basically added in another main character, although I imagine them blurting out her backstory every 5 seconds is an attempt to accommodate for this) it can be confusing if you don't have someone explaining everything to you. I can only imagine how weird it would be for someone to watch the MLP movie when it comes out as their first experience with the show and decide to check out the latest season of the show, only to find out that there's like another half dozen important secondary characters that they don't know anything about.

I think as the show has gone on magic in general has gotten a larger focus. Watching some of the episodes of season one it really felt at times that you were really watching a girls cartoon. Generally speaking I feel like the show has shifted away from that and has focused on providing a compelling show for both genders and people of all age groups. A lot of the male watchers I think take an interest in the fantasy aspect of it which I think is at least partially why they've had a larger focus on it as the show has gone on. The Crystal Empire I feel was the major progenitor of that as I feel that was the first time we really got to see for extended periods of time just how powerful Twilight was. Season one though aside from her showing up Trixie in Boast Busters and that spell she tried in Best Night Ever (Which she studied a lot for so wasn't THAT impressive from an outsider's perspective imo) there really wasn't much she did that Rarity couldn't do. One of the cool things about Starlight's introduction is that it has put an even larger emphasis on magic which I have always found really cool so bonus points for that.

I thought the Star Wars reference was awesome. It was really neat for the people that got it and was unobtrusive for everyone that didn't. I would say it was much better handled then stuff like Slice of Life.

To me Discord is someone that for the most part understands right from wrong but believes he's above having to worry about morality and just does whatever he wants without stopping to consider how this affects others. Also I disagree with you saying people don't take mind control seriously. With Discord he altered their personalities with the express intent of ruining their friendship so the Elements of Harmony couldn't be used against him. And in a way he's still suffering from that as no one in Equestria besides Fluttershy really trusts him. (Although the reason why extends far beyond him screwing with their personalities once) When Twilight and Starlight did it in all of the cases they were generally trying to do the right thing and either didn't really think it all the way through or believed that the outcome would benefit everyone involved. Generally I feel like in their cases it was an honest mistake rather then some premeditated attempt to mess the people they were effecting up to the point of mentally damaging them. And although it does differ a bit between writers MLP in general has let people off the hook for screwing up. Rainbow gets no punishment for sabotaging a weather machine and attempting to stop winter. Diamond Tiara is suddenly best friends with everyone the second she does one nice thing despite tormenting her fellow classmates most of her life. Rarity doesn't get any comeuppance for lying to her friends and blowing off making Twilight's dress so she can try to improve her social standing with the Canterlot elite.

Got sidetracked for a bit there but to bring it back on track I feel like Discord generally knows exactly what he's doing. I wouldn't say that he's a child more that he generally doesn't really care how his actions affect others. It's just now he realizes that he cares what other people think about him so every once in a while he reels things back in to avoid pissing other people off.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Sciz said:
There's a tremendous amount of potential in the Come to Life spell she used in Winter Wrap Up that's gone completely untapped by the show and fandom alike.
Click to expand...
medium.png


ShinySylvee said:
*snip*
Click to expand...
Dammit Shiny, I was going to just post the above image and leave it at that, but you had to go and write that great post!

Concerning the point of jumping from the end of season 1 to the start of season 6, yeah, I hadn't considered just how much you'd have to explain. Though I have previously said that for a brand new viewer, it might just be easier to jump in at season 5. At this point, you don't really need to know that Twilight was once a unicorn or anything like that. Being introduced to a bunch of characters isn't that confusing, it's being introduced to them and then jumping to later when things radically changed that is. I think that's how it will be with the movie.

About my mind control point, I was referring more to how fans at the time often considered the mind control to be absolutely unforgivable, and comparable to rape. The characters clearly don't enjoy it, but they don't consider it nearly that much of a violation. In general, the level of forgiveness ponies demonstrate can sometimes be off-putting, which we can still see with reactions to Starlight.
 
P

PaulloDEC

Member
SigmasonicX said:
About my mind control point, I was referring more to how fans at the time often considered the mind control to be absolutely unforgivable, and comparable to rape. The characters clearly don't enjoy it, but they don't consider it nearly that much of a violation. In general, the level of forgiveness ponies demonstrate can sometimes be off-putting, which we can still see with reactions to Starlight.
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This is something I've kinda butted up against a few times over the years. The attitude I've always taken is that you can't judge the actions of MLP characters by human standards. The thing where people compare mind-control to rape is pointless, because there is no rape in Equestria. That concept doesn't exist and is incompatible with the cartoon universe they live in. Characters in MLP can't suffer or be hurt the way real people can, and on the rare occasions where it comes close (Moondancer for example) the damage can always be fixed.
Unless you're designated a "villain", in which case you exist to be cartoonishly villainous until your turn to be reformed comes up.

ShinySylvee said:
Got sidetracked for a bit there but to bring it back on track I feel like Discord generally knows exactly what he's doing. I wouldn't say that he's a child more that he generally doesn't really care how his actions affect others. It's just now he realizes that he cares what other people think about him so every once in a while he reels things back in to avoid pissing other people off.
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Great post!

I wanted to pick out this little bit, because I find Discord's situation to be kind of fascinating. In a way he's sort of like a rich kid who spent his teens and his twenties partying on his parents dime. Only now he's in his thirties, and his parents have basically told him he needs to grow up or they'll cut him off.

Now he's (somewhat begrudgingly) agreed to live their way, and he's in a weird position where you can tell he sometimes wishes he was still living wild and free, but at the same time has developed a genuine appreciation of his new lifestyle. He's maturing, but that wild kid is still in there.
 
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ShinySylvee

Member
SigmasonicX said:


Dammit Shiny, I was going to just post the above image and leave it at that, but you had to go and write that great post!

Concerning the point of jumping from the end of season 1 to the start of season 6, yeah, I hadn't considered just how much you'd have to explain. Though I have previously said that for a brand new viewer, it might just be easier to jump in at season 5. At this point, you don't really need to know that Twilight was once a unicorn or anything like that. Being introduced to a bunch of characters isn't that confusing, it's being introduced to them and then jumping to later when things radically changed that is. I think that's how it will be with the movie.

About my mind control point, I was referring more to how fans at the time often considered the mind control to be absolutely unforgivable, and comparable to rape. The characters clearly don't enjoy it, but they don't consider it nearly that much of a violation. In general, the level of forgiveness ponies demonstrate can sometimes be off-putting, which we can still see with reactions to Starlight.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for writing good posts? ;)

You [I]could[/I] understand what's going on without following along with the show. A lot of people might complain about the show reminding us that "Starlight was evil at one point but is now Twilight's student" in pretty much every scene she's in but the major reason why they do that is so people that haven't been following along can sort of understand who she is and why she's there. Also I feel like something like the Season 6 Finale wouldn't have as much of an impact if you hadn't been following those characters along across the seasons and seen their transformation from villains to sort-of-heroes. I feel like the movie is generally going to massively cut back on the characters to the point that it's pretty much just going to be the Mane 6, Celestia, and whoever they add in for the movie. 6 characters to immediately learn and care about is a lot for any kind of movie let alone a kids one. (Although their personalities could be shown in literally one line of dialog so that helps a lot) Anyone that isn't immediately important to the plot is going to probably get cut. They might have a scene or two where they're just sitting there so the fans can go "Oh hey there's one of my favorite characters" but people not in the know would be confused if they introduce a bunch of really important looking characters only for them to not do anything really important. The movie is supposed to be a starting point for people inexperienced with the series keeping things simple is essential. If they introduce too many concepts at once then they run the risk of overwhelming people that don't know anything about the series. If they just wanted to please the audience they already have they'd just make another made-for-tv movie like Equestria Girls. For some people going to something called "My Little Pony: The Movie" is already a pretty tough sell. It can't feel like they're watching a movie that feels like it belongs to a show that has been going on for 6/7 seasons. It needs to both feel like it fits in with the story the show has told so far and also be a standalone film that can be enjoyed to its fullest by someone that has no knowledge whatsoever of the show before watching it.

Let me be clear and say that I'm not saying that the show's growing focus on continuity is a bad thing. I've greatly enjoyed watching the characters change as the show has gone on and appreciate continuing the stories of fan favorite secondary characters such as Luna and Trixie. Just that it can make it hard at times for people to fully appreciate the show at times if they haven't seen all the plot-important stuff that comes before it, and that so much has happened already that it can't just be easily explained in a quick 1-2 minute voiceover like they could at the beginning.


The comparison to rape just doesn't really work for me. Browbeating and blackmailing also fit the description of "forcing someone to do something against their will" but no one makes those comparisons. Even those seem more severe then how mind control is portrayed to the show so I don't really think there's a real world comparison that translates one-to-one. Starlight's manipulation of her villagers was probably the most heinous thing someone has done involving that sort of thing and that wasn't even mind control it was done without any magic. Rape I would imagine is an extremely emotionally traumatic experience but for the most part mind altering magic is generally not taken that seriously on the show. I feel like Starlight's spell she put on her friends is something they would joke about a couple years down the line. Even Discord's magic (which was a lot more sinister in nature given that he did it to end their friendship) wasn't perceived to be all that bad either as pinkie's first reaction to being back to normal was to laugh at how funny it was. And people complaining about Starlight not getting her comeuppance just strikes me as weird since the show has never been about justice porn. The "good guys" almost never get their just deserts for any of the awful things they do. Like seriously Luna goes completely apeshit and tries to create an eternal night and banish Celestia to the moon and after getting hit by friendship magic Celestia immediately forgives her and offers her position of princess of the moon back, and that's before Luna even apologized for what she did.

Idk maybe it's just not a big deal to me because I'm willing to suspend my disbelief or overlook a couple flaws if I believe that the rest of the equation makes up for it. There's another show I like called The 100 which is simultaneously very flawed and extremely compelling. Often times the characters in that show act horribly out of character if the plot demands them. Both in season 2 and 3 there was an instance of a previously extremely liked character doing something extremely awful (like killing a ton of innocent people for no good reason while also putting everyone they care about in danger awful) and we're supposed to both accept that and also at some point go back and still like them as characters. For a lot of people that's way too much to accept and a lot of people got really pissed at these moments. I thought they were extremely forced and stupid as well but I looked past that because they did help cause some really interesting and dramatic moments and the rest of the show made up for it. Looping it back to MLP it seems pretty well established at this point that anyone that fully owns up to making a mistake and gives themselves up is responded with compassion and sympathy rather then harassment and punishment. You might not like it or agree with it but I feel like that's just one of the things you have to accept when you watch the show.

Man I swore to myself I was going to post something shorter this time lol. I always feel the need to fully explain and expand upon all my points which gets out of hand really fast.

EDIT: Man while writing that wall of text someone else responded.

[quote="PaulloDEC, post: 224292000"]

I wanted to pick out this little bit, because I find Discord's situation to be kind of fascinating. In a way he's sort of like a rich kid who spent his teens and his twenties partying on his parents dime. Only now he's in his thirties, and his parents have basically told him he needs to grow up or they'll cut him off.

Now he's (somewhat begrudgingly) agreed to live their way, and he's in a weird position where you can tell he sometimes wishes he was still living wild and free, but at the same time has developed a genuine appreciation of his new lifestyle. He's maturing, but that wild kid is still in there.[/QUOTE]


I would say that sums things up pretty well. If I had one complaint about Discord though is that it feel like he's learning a bit slow. It would be nice if at some point he would notice that his "normal" behavior is negatively impacting people on his own rather then requiring it to be pointed out to him by someone else. Like I'm fine with him being a dick it just feels like he'll only relent being a selfish asshole when he's given no other choice.
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PaulloDEC

Member
ShinySylvee said:
And people complaining about Starlight not getting her comeuppance just strikes me as weird since the show has never been about justice porn. The "good guys" almost never get their just deserts for any of the awful things they do. Like seriously Luna goes completely apeshit and tries to create an eternal night and banish Celestia to the moon and after getting hit by friendship magic Celestia immediately forgives her and offers her position of princess of the moon back, and that's before Luna even apologized for what she did.
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I think that once again it's people wanting to apply logic from our world to cartoon horsies. Crimes in our world carry harsh penalties because humans are fragile, both physically and emotionally. Ponies by contrast are like the T-1000 from Terminator 2; you can knock them around all you like, but they'll just bend right back into shape.

ShinySylvee said:
I would say that sums things up pretty well. If I had one complaint about Discord though is that it feel like he's learning a bit slow. It would be nice if at some point he would notice that his "normal" behavior is negatively impacting people on his own rather then requiring it to be pointed out to him by someone else. Like I'm fine with him being a dick it just feels like he'll only relent being a selfish asshole when he's given no other choice.
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I suppose old habits die hard with Discord. The guy lived by his own rules for eons, so he's a bit slow on the uptake.
 
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Village

Member
While I do think the statue of limitation on forgivenes of... everything is a bit higher in that show like most kids things or cartoon stuff. LIke vegeta being a horrible murderer, or shadow in the entirety of sonic adventure 2 to compare animals to animals. I guess lesson is to learn a greater lesson. But there's a point say mind control, where the characters should actually be upset at what others are doing and the road to forgiveness a bit stretched out. The idea of characters messing up is one that do enjoy.


As for luna and the moon, while the simple and more canon explination is " Celestia loves her sister" a more practical one is. Remember, the only things that can beat luna, when she's super upset.... were the elements of harmony. Celestia was getting her stuff rocked, I don't know wanting to have the nightmare moon on your side whenever you need to break that out might be a much more valuable asset than fighting it. And if something happens to those things, Luna is official sitting as a super powerful threat. So on like a political level, its actually super smart.

Its like discord, discord would probably eventually get out of his stone prison anyway, why fight that guy who can ruin the entirety of space and logic when you can have.... at least a bit less antagonistic. Makes a lot of peoples lives potentially much less worse.

But again its just because she loves her sister, forgive forget whatever.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
Concerning the movie and continuity, I agree that it's very likely going to just have the Main Six, Spike, and the adult princesses for major characters from the show, and I think it's likely they'd even leave out Cadance. Everyone else will just be cameos or short joke appearances. For example, apparently Trolls (the recent movie) had a silent DJ troll, so I could imagine Vinyl appearing. If there's a scene where everyone in town gathers to fight off a threat, I could see a lot of small gags with secondary and background characters.

Depending on where they want to go with the story, they could easily leave out any mention of Twilight once being a unicorn or her old library. Rainbow Dash could just be stated to be a Wonderbolt. We already know Discord isn't going to be in the movie, at least with a speaking role. I think that plugs up everything that would need to be explained, that wouldn't be directly relevant to the plot.

Of course, if a new viewer then jumps into the show, or even starts from the beginning, there will be stuff they'll be confused by, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. A viewer should be able to then realize things change throughout the show.

Concerning mind control, I wasn't stating my opinions. Even during season 2, I thought the rape comparisons were overblown, and it was evident even from "Lesson Zero" that it wasn't considered that harsh. However, there are cases where I can definitely understand people not liking the show's easy forgiveness of certain characters. For example, over at The Round Stable, there was a poster whose family was actually part of a cult when they were younger, and thus greatly dislikes Starlight turning good. I don't agree, but it's understandable.

About Discord's development, I agree that they've had him only be nice to Fluttershy for a bit too long. It would be a neat bit of development if he was more openly friendly with Spike and Big Mac from now on.

On another note, here's a weird thing. ED suggests it's brainwashing.
 
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DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Village said:
While I do think the statue of limitation on forgivenes of... everything is a bit higher in that show like most kids things or cartoon stuff. LIke vegeta being a horrible murderer, or shadow in the entirety of sonic adventure 2 to compare animals to animals. I guess lesson is to learn a greater lesson. But there's a point say mind control, where the characters should actually be upset at what others are doing and the road to forgiveness a bit stretched out. The idea of characters messing up is one that do enjoy.


As for luna and the moon, while the simple and more canon explination is " Celestia loves her sister" a more practical one is. Remember, the only things that can beat luna, when she's super upset.... were the elements of harmony. Celestia was getting her stuff rocked, I don't know wanting to have the nightmare moon on your side whenever you need to break that out might be a much more valuable asset than fighting it. And if something happens to those things, Luna is official sitting as a super powerful threat. So on like a political level, its actually super smart.

Its like discord, discord would probably eventually get out of his stone prison anyway, why fight that guy who can ruin the entirety of space and logic when you can have.... at least a bit less antagonistic. Makes a lot of peoples lives potentially much less worse.

But again its just because she loves her sister, forgive forget whatever.
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We never saw Celestia try to fight Luna without the Elements. She tried to talk Luna down, and eventually used the elements as a way to lock her up.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
New Years marathon on Discovery Family

Eyebrow Swap
Poofy
Glimmer in Star's Light
Sonata Dusk
Shadow Hunter - Based on the Guardians of Harmony toys, I assume
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Pointless Pony Tips #27890
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Preview images for the MLP stage musical based on Rainbow Rocks, starting in Singapore then traveling to some other countries. It seems like much more effort is going into this than the previous stage musicals.

Grand Galloping Gala dress toys are finally out!
Chrysalis Guardians of Harmony statue toy
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And... an Indonesian backpack used "Cupcakes" fan art. Whoops.
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Village

Member
There was a response to the Doc about celestia probably getting bopped by nightmare moon. But you know what, you like celestia, she almost on spike levels of disrespect. I'm leave it alone.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
Pony History: The JetBlue Pony Saga

I forgot this happened. In the earlier days of the fandom, there was a lot of prodding around to see if random people and companies would be receptive to pony stuff. Many people found this annoying, but it sometimes led to really fun moments like this, where JetBlue responded positively and thus got their own OC, which they put in one of their office bathrooms. Even Lauren Faust got involved suggesting a name for the character (Wild Blue Yonder), but Jet Stream was decided on instead. It occurs to me that there isn't an official FiM character by that name, is there? I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally avoided it.

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Of course, things died down after that, but I was happy to see that when Calpain asked for Pony History suggestions on Twitter and mentioned JetBlue, JetBlue tweeted back to him with a pony gif.
 
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ShinySylvee

Member
I thought I'd post this since it could lead to some fun discussion. Reddit did a survey a week or so ago where they would display two episodes and you would have to pick the one you liked more. They just finalized the results and have even done things such as rank the seasons, writers, and characters based on the results. (Although them including Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo as separate characters despite having 2 episodes each and omitting Starlight who has gotten 7 episodes so far seems weird)

Here's the link
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
ShinySylvee said:
I thought I'd post this since it could lead to some fun discussion. Reddit did a survey a week or so ago where they would display two episodes and you would have to pick the one you liked more. They just finalized the results and have even done things such as rank the seasons, writers, and characters based on the results. (Although them including Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo as separate characters despite having 2 episodes each and omitting Starlight who has gotten 7 episodes so far seems weird)

Here's the link
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Yeah, Scootaloo and Sweetie Belle were definitely skewed by their low number of episodes. Looking at the episode rankings, a certain episode in fourth place will upset someone here. Even for me, though I don't dislike "Twilight's Kingdom", that's definitely way to high for it. "Owl's Well That Ends Well" being second to last is a surprise; it's on the weak end, but it's certainly not bad.

I'm thinking a lot of these rankings are a quirk of how episodes were paired off. Was there any seeding, or was it just random episode vs. random episode?
 
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ShinySylvee

Member
SigmasonicX said:
Yeah, Scootaloo and Sweetie Belle were definitely skewed by their low number of episodes. Looking at the episode rankings, a certain episode in fourth place will upset someone here. Even for me, though I don't dislike "Twilight's Kingdom", that's definitely way to high for it. "Owl's Well That Ends Well" being second to last is a surprise; it's on the weak end, but it's certainly not bad.

I'm thinking a lot of these rankings are a quirk of how episodes were paired off. Was there any seeding, or was it just random episode vs. random episode?
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The episodes are randomly matched vs others. There's no seeding and the number shown for the episode is the percentage it won against its random opponent.

Two-parters are for the most part overinflated. The Royal Crysatalling is sitting at 48.5 even though it's generally considered to be pretty weak.

There's a couple I feel are overshot or under what I think they deserve but that's how these polls go.

/mlp/ did their own version of the poll. They went 1>2>6>5>4>3 but most the people on that board think everything's past season 2 is garbage so their opinions are skewed really hard.
 
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PaulloDEC

Member
There's definitely some unusual results in there. I was a little shocked to see "The Hooffields and McColts" and "Party Pooped", two stories I'm a big fan of, ranked as either pretty poor or top-10 worst ever. "It's About Time" ranked weirdly high too.

Some of the '15 - '16 differences are interesting too; people really turned on "Wonderbolts Academy", but equally came to love "Castle Sweet Castle".
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
After Billy Bob Thornton mentioned that he watches MLP with his daughter and likes it, more people have been talking to him about it, including Seth Meyers in the included clip. His 12-year-old daughter's favorite pony is Twilight, while his own are Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy. He mentions that his daughter prefers watching Equestria Girls.

Incidentally, I believe I've brought this up before, but it's kind of interesting how from many indications, Equestria Girls is much more popular with the actual target audience of little girls than it is with bronies. EQG stuff is underrepresented on, say, Equestria Daily, but when looking at stuff that gets recommended to me on YouTube, the Equestria Girls videos seem to have many more views than similar pony videos. Official Legend of Everfree clips have millions of views, while contemporary show clips are in the hundreds of thousands at most, and "Welcome to the Show" seems to by far be the most viewed MLP song. Plus, there's the large number of "teenage PMVs", as many bronies dismissively call them, which seem to be defined by being super flashy, visually loud, including a lot of fan art, and most of all, including a lot of Equestria Girls stuff. Following the premise that young girl fans are more likely to visit YouTube than ED, this seems to show a preference for EQG.

On another note, the new Friendship is Dragons issue features a sonnet from Cheese Sandwich and Gilda bursting out of his skin. For those who missed my last post about this, the comic is having the person who plays as Gilda try to make a better version of Pinkie's player's character, via Cheese Sandwich.
 
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ShinySylvee

Member
PaulloDEC said:
There's definitely some unusual results in there. I was a little shocked to see "The Hooffields and McColts" and "Party Pooped", two stories I'm a big fan of, ranked as either pretty poor or top-10 worst ever. "It's About Time" ranked weirdly high too.

Some of the '15 - '16 differences are interesting too; people really turned on "Wonderbolts Academy", but equally came to love "Castle Sweet Castle".
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Someone in the results thread speculated that people got Wonderbolts Academy mixed up with the season 6 episode Newbie Dash which would partially explain why its ranking tanked so much. Overall though I feel like there's a lot of episodes that are way above or below where I think they belong but oh well.

SigmasonicX said:
After Billy Bob Thornton mentioned that he watches MLP with his daughter and likes it, more people have been talking to him about it, including Seth Meyers in the included clip. His 12-year-old daughter's favorite pony is Twilight, while his own are Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy. He mentions that his daughter prefers watching Equestria Girls.

Incidentally, I believe I've brought this up before, but it's kind of interesting how from many indications, Equestria Girls is much more popular with the actual target audience of little girls than it is with bronies. EQG stuff is underrepresented on, say, Equestria Daily, but when looking at stuff that gets recommended to me on YouTube, the Equestria Girls videos seem to have many more views than similar pony videos. Official Legend of Everfree clips have millions of views, while contemporary show clips are in the hundreds of thousands at most, and "Welcome to the Show" seems to by far be the most viewed MLP song. Plus, there's the large number of "teenage PMVs", as many bronies dismissively call them, which seem to be defined by being super flashy, visually loud, including a lot of fan art, and most of all, including a lot of Equestria Girls stuff. Following the premise that young girl fans are more likely to visit YouTube than ED, this seems to show a preference for EQG.
Click to expand...

I feel like Rainbow Dash is very popular for the male casual watchers of the show. She's the most "masculine" member of the show and many people would likely relate to her competitive spirit. She's also very "cool" as well which helps a lot. For people still trying to hold on to their masculinity it's really easy to justify liking Rainbow because even if you ignore what show she's in she's just a really awesome character. Up until Mare Do Well she was my favorite character until my sour reception of that episode combined with Sisterhooves Social and Sweet and Elite making me like Rarity a lot more. At times Rainbow can be a bit jarring as everyone else in the Mane 6 is generally very nice and selfless whereas Dash is very self-absorbed and rarely does anything that doesn't directly benefit herself. In any other show it wouldn't be that big a deal but given that Equestria is this sort of borderline utopic fantasy world where people generally get along and are nice to each other she sticks out at times. Not sure why I even went into this, got a bit sidetracked.

Back on topic I guess I'm saying I'm not surprised he likes Rainbow? Even though I personally don't like her as much as I used to.

The observation on EQG was really spot on I feel. I would say that a large draw for the male audience of the show is the modern high fantasy setting that it has. It's a setting that is surprisingly mostly ignored in fiction as they usually put their fantasy setting in medieval times instead. The biggest issue I have with EQG is largely based on that I don't find the setting as interesting as Equestria. I'm a lot more neutral on the spin-off then most people in the fandom are though I imagine. But I feel like a lot of the younger girls that watch the show might not find the fantasy world of Equestria as interesting as a more relatable and realistic world like the one in EQG. I think the three 22 minute episodes coming out next year for EQG might be a test run for a full on series.

It's kinda weird when you look at how much the fandom seems to have dropped off in the past couple years. This thread might have 10 people that actually post in it. Ponychan and MLPchan merged because they didn't have enough people to populate both sites, and even then there's not a whole lot of people that browse it. /mlp/ is still "lively" but it's hard to tell how much of that are actual fans and how much are just trolls. But meanwhile there's a different group of fans of the show running parallel to us that seems to be picking up a lot of steam. I remember when This Day Aria had the most views of any pony video by a substantial margin but now Welcome to the Show has a combined 160 Million between two videos while This Day Aria is sitting at 36. It's crazy to consider that despite the "brony" fandom feeling like a shell of what it once was the show might be more popular then ever. And with the movie coming out next year it might be even bigger. It's weird that they're 6 seasons into the show and it is still getting bigger.
 
V

Village

Member
SigmasonicX said:
Incidentally, I believe I've brought this up before, but it's kind of interesting how from many indications, Equestria Girls is much more popular with the actual target audience of little girls than it is with bronies. EQG stuff is underrepresented on, say, Equestria Daily, but when looking at stuff that gets recommended to me on YouTube, the Equestria Girls videos seem to have many more views than similar pony videos. Official Legend of Everfree clips have millions of views, while contemporary show clips are in the hundreds of thousands at most, and "Welcome to the Show" seems to by far be the most viewed MLP song. Plus, there's the large number of "teenage PMVs", as many bronies dismissively call them, which seem to be defined by being super flashy, visually loud, including a lot of fan art, and most of all, including a lot of Equestria Girls stuff. Following the premise that young girl fans are more likely to visit YouTube than ED, this seems to show a preference for EQG.
.
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That might be why some of the most recent toy commercials for the regular stuff are more geneder nuetral. I personally Think animal stuff as far as series goes, reads more gender neutral a lot of the time. No matter how hard you try and make it one thing, a lot of the times I find it to come up the middle. To connect to another set of animals that have a fan base they didn't expect, half of sonic's fanbase is female. And for a very long time... hell even now ( considering how they treat their female characters) its primary marketing towards a boy market. But yeah, that isn't to say that's the only thing, lauran fausts designs aren't really inherently " girly" or rather either , and the series has gotten a bit more action-ey as time went one.

I can see equestria girls hitting up more on little girls, actual crushes, high schools, its more a sailor moon and a brats thing. I think its all about aesthetics and a lot of the aesthetics in regular MLP just read gender neutral. Its just that a lot of the main characters are female.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
There's also the fact that little girls might naturally think that Equestria Girls is more mature than the show, due to the high school stuff. Kids look up to high schoolers as cool and mature, while adults, well, don't. EQG has an added cool factor for kids, while adults more easily look past that or even view it as a negative.

Concerning the overall flow of fans out of the NeoGAF topics and the chans, I feel like a lot of this is due to the changing way younger fans interact with the fandom. Though I haven't looked into this, I imagine they're talking on places like reddit and YouTube as opposed to dedicated message boards or topics.

On a related note, while the Japanese dub of FiM has long since ended, they're still dubbing the Equestria Girls movies to my knowledge (despite never having dubbed season 3). Although that is Netflix only, apparently, this seems to reflect a greater amount of interest in EQG there, at least by marketers. Plus, I feel like a disproportionate amount of Japanese fanart is EQG-based.
 
V

Village

Member
SigmasonicX said:
There's also the fact that little girls might naturally think that Equestria Girls is more mature than the show, due to the high school stuff. Kids look up to high schoolers as cool and mature, while adults, well, don't. EQG has an added cool factor for kids, while adults more easily look past that or even view it as a negative.
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That's a fairly good point

Concerning the overall flow of fans out of the NeoGAF topics and the chans, I feel like a lot of this is due to the changing way younger fans interact with the fandom. Though I haven't looked into this, I imagine they're talking on places like reddit and YouTube as opposed to dedicated message boards or topics.
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I would be interested in what the metrics are on who hands out where where it comes to this thing. And who cares about what? And other things, like who is best pony by age group.

The answer is filthy rich by the way

But I would like to see their wrong answers.


SigmasonicX said:
On a related note, while the Japanese dub of FiM has long since ended, they're still dubbing the Equestria Girls movies to my knowledge (despite never having dubbed season 3). Although that is Netflix only, apparently, this seems to reflect a greater amount of interest in EQG there, at least by marketers. Plus, I feel like a disproportionate amount of Japanese fanart is EQG-based.
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Oh my a show about magical girls transforming.
Who would have thought Japan would like that? Strange world. strange times we live in
The largest "/S" in the world
 
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PaulloDEC

Member
SigmasonicX said:
There's also the fact that little girls might naturally think that Equestria Girls is more mature than the show, due to the high school stuff. Kids look up to high schoolers as cool and mature, while adults, well, don't. EQG has an added cool factor for kids, while adults more easily look past that or even view it as a negative.
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This was always my assumption. The kids who aren't yet old enough to be taken by EQG are probably too young to be very active online.

SigmasonicX said:
Concerning the overall flow of fans out of the NeoGAF topics and the chans, I feel like a lot of this is due to the changing way younger fans interact with the fandom. Though I haven't looked into this, I imagine they're talking on places like reddit and YouTube as opposed to dedicated message boards or topics.
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I've definitely gotten the sense nowadays that forums are considered pretty old-hat by the younger crowd. Social media seems to be where the vast majority of discussion goes on now.
 
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ShinySylvee

Member
Village said:
That might be why some of the most recent toy commercials for the regular stuff are more geneder nuetral. I personally Think animal stuff as far as series goes, reads more gender neutral a lot of the time. No matter how hard you try and make it one thing, a lot of the times I find it to come up the middle. To connect to another set of animals that have a fan base they didn't expect, half of sonic's fanbase is female. And for a very long time... hell even now ( considering how they treat their female characters) its primary marketing towards a boy market. But yeah, that isn't to say that's the only thing, lauran fausts designs aren't really inherently " girly" or rather either , and the series has gotten a bit more action-ey as time went one.

I can see equestria girls hitting up more on little girls, actual crushes, high schools, its more a sailor moon and a brats thing. I think its all about aesthetics and a lot of the aesthetics in regular MLP just read gender neutral. Its just that a lot of the main characters are female.
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MLP I would say has generally had a more gender neutral tone with the exception of a couple parts in the first season. With the exception of Rarity and Rainbow Dash (Who is generally into more masculine things such as sports) I would say that most the characters interests are more gender neutral. The ascetics are bright and colorful but uses all sorts of colors rather then just making everything pink. A lot of that comes down to the show's amazing art direction. Despite its origin and what the original intent might have been MLP is actually fairly gender neutral in practice. Bright, vibrant colors and morals that teach you to be a good person isn't an inherently feminine thing, and if that is then society is fucked.

SigmasonicX said:
There's also the fact that little girls might naturally think that Equestria Girls is more mature than the show, due to the high school stuff. Kids look up to high schoolers as cool and mature, while adults, well, don't. EQG has an added cool factor for kids, while adults more easily look past that or even view it as a negative.

Concerning the overall flow of fans out of the NeoGAF topics and the chans, I feel like a lot of this is due to the changing way younger fans interact with the fandom. Though I haven't looked into this, I imagine they're talking on places like reddit and YouTube as opposed to dedicated message boards or topics.
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If there's a subreddit that talks about the show with a younger group of people I haven't really found it. The main subreddit is mainly just an image dump with the exception of when major news happens and on Thursdays when image posts are banned. I do think that a lot of them post on YouTube videos about the show, although it's mainly the show clips not any of the discussion videos I imagine. Look at the comments section for any of the EQG stuff and you can clearly see that it's a lot of kids posting there. I don't think they really have a section of the internet they frequent to talk about the show. I think they just watch it a lot in their spare time and do other things when they're not watching the show. Maybe it's just that I don't browse that side of the internet but I don't think there's massive gatherings of fans of Monster High and stuff like that.

Also another problem that a lot of the younger fans would have is that a lot of the fandom creations that the "bronies" create is generally a lot more adult in nature. Lots of swear words, high level discussion that would likely go over the head of most kids, and some 18+ art would likely cause them to steer clear of this side of the fandom.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
Yeah, after I made that post, I realized that reddit was the wrong site to reference. Tumblr is probably where all the cool kids are. And to be clear, I'm talking about tweens and younger teens when I'm talking about kids; I know kids younger than that won't have as strong of an online presence, at least one visible to outsiders.

I can't speak to how safe it is for kids to navigate around adult-aimed stuff in the fandom. It's definitely safer than it used to be, now that Google Images pony searches have been mostly cleaned up, sites like Equestria Daily are more cautious about saucy art, Derpibooru has filters enabled by default, and NSFW blogs don't have such a large influence on the greater fandom. Thinking about it, that last part really was a problem in the older fandom. Even here, a lot of Belle Eve (our mascot) art comes from Ask Princess Molestia or its spinoff, Ask Gamer Luna; and there's still a poster I see around GAF with an Ask Futashy avatar (humanized Twilight with a blank expression saying "Neat").

On the subject of discussion being too advanced or adult, I haven't looked at reddit, but I remember in my old days of the Sonic fandom, I was pretty comfortable at The Sonic Foundation forum from around the age of 10-15. There were often light topics like "Best invincibility item in a game" or "Favorite stage" or "Create a stage for Sonic Adventure 2" (since that hadn't come out yet), where you could make a fairly inane post without adult content or too much pushback, and you didn't feel pressured to make a big detailed post. That said, there were also topics with large posts (that I felt intimidated by), such as the forum roleplays and group fanfics, and there were certainly adult moments, such as jokes about how a certain mod's dick was so great it could dispense ice cream.

I suppose the point I'm making is that message boards feel like they've changed. They're either too nasty or too adult (in terms of conversation level), which contributes to the view that they're only for older people now.

Still, when talking about the fandom shrinking in what used to be big gathering places, we have to maintain some perspective. This is still a single TV show (and spinoff movies) that has its own 4chan board, its own 'chan, and its own 'booru. And even if the adult fandom is shrinking, there's more official material coming out than ever.
 
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ShinySylvee

Member
Reddit's posts are generally not too bad but I don't think that if I were a tween girl I would really feel that comfortable browsing there. Again a large part of the problem with a lot of the "brony" parts of the fandom is that a lot of people take the show VERY seriously so there's not a whole lot of places you can just casually talk about the show without having your opinion cross-examined by a bunch of people. I'm not saying that either half is right or wrong but when you post on someplace like this thread your opinion is going to get heavily analyzed especially if it's not a particularly popular one. Most the people that post here are big fans of the show and have put a lot of thought into it so anyone that casually likes the show and just catches up every once in a while is not really going to feel welcome posting here as they might not like their posts taken so seriously or might not feel like they have anything worthwhile to contribute because they don't analyze the show as much. If I were just a young teenager that liked the show but didn't think that much about it I would probably take one look at one of the posts I've actually written for this thread or the other one and run the other way. This board is probably the most analytical one I've been to as there's other places that have at least a decent chunk of low effort one sentence witty replies so it's a little better there. That being said even simple discussions such as "who's best pony" get intense as people usually use evidence and reference particular episodes from the show by name to get their point across. Not saying that's an entirely bad thing, just that for a casual watcher online discussion might appear impenetrable to them.

I'm not entirely sure how internet boards have changed. Maybe it's just the places I browse now but it feels like there's a bit more blatantly racist/misogynistic comments in some parts. Or maybe that's just YouTube I don't know. I wish there was some place people could discuss MLP like Nintendo's Miiverse. It's "forum" Nintendo hosts. There's a board for each game and people can make image posts on there and discuss things. You could also take screenshots from the game and post them or use stamps you collect in-game to make pictures. You could even draw stuff. It felt like a place that anyone of any age could post and they would feel welcome.

If I ever come off as being doom and gloom about the fandom dying I apologize as that's not my intent. I think that where it's currently at is perfectly fine and kinda like it not being as popular as there's a lot less drama and forced memes. Me stating that the population has dropped off is just stating observations I've made as I've only just recently gotten back into the fandom after not really following it much from midseason 4 till around the end of season 6.

The show itself seems bigger then ever, which is pretty impressive given that they're into season 6. A lot of cartoons can't make it past the 3rd season without things starting to go down. SpongeBob lasted 3 seasons before starting it's post-movie downward spiral. Things seem to be going really well for the brand. They finally have toys for something other then little girls. They have a blockbuster movie coming out next year, which should introduce more fans old and young to the show. Equestria Girls is doing very well and might get its own full-blown spinoff show at some point. 2017 is shaping up to be the biggest year for pony yet.

Coming from someone that knows a lot of people that used to be part of the fandom but aren't I think a lot of them got burnt out. Up until recently that was me, and I recently got another friend of mine that stopped watching midway through season 4 to watch it again. I think a lot of the ex fans have just sort of forgot how much they actually enjoy watching the show. I predict that the movie is going to attract a lot of the old fans to get back into it once they realize that it is a show they actually really like.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
Look back: Season 6. I preferred this over the season 5 one.

Season one fandom flashback with a mashup of two Lazy Town songs and MLP sound effects: We are Number One but You are a Pirate but contains ponies

Pony lip-sync to Wicked's "Defying Gravity", which works pretty well with Starlight and Trixie.

Short newspaper article about a young fan artist.

TLC's Cake Boss has a Pinkie Pie cake.
Capture.JPG


Comics:
So much for peace negotiations - Insert gif
Days in the Lives of the Royal Sisters - Celestia messing with ponies

Gabby
After Camp - Sunset Shimmer
Cloudtop Retreat
Humanized filly(?) art
Princess Snuggles - Future Flurry Heart with OC future Twilight daughter. I'm amused that the explanation for no cutie marks is to not contradict canon in the future.
Gabbybymiszasta1479243893236.png
AfterCampSunsetShimmerbyaJVL1479338699603.jpg
CloudtopRetreatCommissionbyAurelleahEverfree1479412251726.png
YesYoushouldXDbyoDaefnYo1479412253546.jpg
PrincessSnugglesbyMomoMistress1479504628667.png


Episode Rewatch: Bridle Gossip. I guess they aren't doing these in order. Going over stuff brought up in the article:

It is somewhat regrettable that Twilight is no longer as snarky and sarcastic as she used to be, but a lot of that attitude was a reflection of her still not being used to her friends. I think it's fine only popping up every once in a while, as it does now.

At the time, I thought the anti-racism message was a bit too on the nose, but the rest of the episode was so good that it rose past that. It's sad that, as ED notes, the very basic message in this episode could receive pushback now.

I can confirm that poison joke in general was huge in fanworks at the time, and every background character had it applied to them. It'd be nice if the show itself applied poison joke to some other characters, but it would be difficult to do that while justifying the involvement of non-Main-Six characters and without just repeating stuff from this episode. "Filli Vanilli" did a good job incorporating poison joke into an unrelated plot, with Fluttershy's singing, so perhaps it could just be a small part of another episode. Like at the start of a Zecora episode, her importance is established by her helping a pony affected by poison joke.

Flutterguy was absolutely huge with the fandom, and was possibly the number one clips people sent around to get others interested in the show. Hell, I was one of those people. And of course, it was big enough to come back in another episode. Come to think of it, Flutterguy is kind of unusual in that there aren't really that many fanworks based on it, except insofar as Pinkie's dancing was put into a lot of PMVs.

And lastly I'll address Zecora, who is definitely one of the show's biggest missed opportunities. Six seasons in and we still know nothing about zebras from the show itself, or even that much about her as an individual. We know that Lauren Faust had bigger plans for her originally, but even in season 1, she made a short appearance in "Swarm of the Century" and never again that season. I remember when "Magic Duel" and season 4's premiere made it seem like maybe she'd play a bigger role, but nope, still minor roles for her. They really just need to do a story where another zebra comes, perhaps a young one seeking Zecora's tutelage.

As for the episode itself, it's still great. I think. I haven't watched it for a bit.
 
S

ShinySylvee

Member
SigmasonicX said:
Episode Rewatch: Bridle Gossip. I guess they aren't doing these in order. Going over stuff brought up in the article:

It is somewhat regrettable that Twilight is no longer as snarky and sarcastic as she used to be, but a lot of that attitude was a reflection of her still not being used to her friends. I think it's fine only popping up every once in a while, as it does now.

At the time, I thought the anti-racism message was a bit too on the nose, but the rest of the episode was so good that it rose past that. It's sad that, as ED notes, the very basic message in this episode could receive pushback now.

I can confirm that poison joke in general was huge in fanworks at the time, and every background character had it applied to them. It'd be nice if the show itself applied poison joke to some other characters, but it would be difficult to do that while justifying the involvement of non-Main-Six characters and without just repeating stuff from this episode. "Filli Vanilli" did a good job incorporating poison joke into an unrelated plot, with Fluttershy's singing, so perhaps it could just be a small part of another episode. Like at the start of a Zecora episode, her importance is established by her helping a pony affected by poison joke.

Flutterguy was absolutely huge with the fandom, and was possibly the number one clips people sent around to get others interested in the show. Hell, I was one of those people. And of course, it was big enough to come back in another episode. Come to think of it, Flutterguy is kind of unusual in that there aren't really that many fanworks based on it, except insofar as Pinkie's dancing was put into a lot of PMVs.

And lastly I'll address Zecora, who is definitely one of the show's biggest missed opportunities. Six seasons in and we still know nothing about zebras from the show itself, or even that much about her as an individual. We know that Lauren Faust had bigger plans for her originally, but even in season 1, she made a short appearance in "Swarm of the Century" and never again that season. I remember when "Magic Duel" and season 4's premiere made it seem like maybe she'd play a bigger role, but nope, still minor roles for her. They really just need to do a story where another zebra comes, perhaps a young one seeking Zecora's tutelage.

As for the episode itself, it's still great. I think. I haven't watched it for a bit.
Click to expand...


I joined the fandom between seasons 1 and 2 so I didn't experience all the season one stuff as it happened. I blitzed through all of season 1 in a day so I don't remember a lot of the episodes too well. Also I generally have way less of a fondness for season 1 then most people so just warning I'm probably going to be a lot harder on it then most people. I'm rewatching it now so here's my thought going through it:

First things first, it's really hard watching this without noticing just how outdated some of the effects and voices feel. There's barely any BGM in the scene where they're talking about how evil Zecora is and it feels weird. There's quite a few other scenes like this as well. Also Twilight sounds like she's 10 years older. Tara Strong was definitely still trying to figure out her voice for Twilight at this point. Rarity as well to a lesser extent.

They must have been really proud of the "Evil Enchantress" song. They just kept bringing it up in the episode. Outside of the time Flutterguy sings it it's actually pretty grating. Can't really call it a song but it's not very pleasant to listen to so them repeating it over kinda got on my nerves.

Ok, I get that she flies literally everywhere, but why is Rainbow still flying when she clearly can't control what she's doing? It's not that she's forced to since she was able to stay on the ground after they started talking to Zecora. I know this episode gets a lot of attention for Flutterguy but I feel like all the other gags they do for the other characters fall flat. None of them are really funny at all besides when Spike comes up for his silly name for them. I can't help but feel the whole scenario could have played out much better then it did. It's a great idea in theory but in practice I can't help but feel 1 out of 6 ideas being good isn't a very good track record.

I remember not really caring much for this episode before and I still don't. I feel like the Mane 6 are acting really out-of-character just so they can hammer home the "Don't judge people" message. Flutterguy is pretty great and is consistently funny but aside from that and Spike reacting to everyone being transformed (I laughed out loud when he pretended to be looking for a cure of the spell and was actually just trying to figure out a silly name for Twilight) everything else in this episode is pretty bad. None of the other jokes really land and the message is REALLY forced.

Honestly I feel like there's been a handful of episodes through the series seem to get a pass for being mediocre episodes because they had one or two really good ideas. It's not as overrated as say Winter Wrap Up and it's not as bad as stuff like Mare Do Well or Princess Spike but I really don't like this episode and think it's one of the weaker offerings from season one.


Zecora was definitely a character with a ton of wasted potential, but a lot of people don't seem to remember back during the Season 2 times that pretty much everyone besides the Mane 6 didn't get any screen time or repeat appearances. For the longest time Luna and Trixie both didn't have any development at all. Zecora definitely has it harder then they do though as these days she feels like a plot device to introduce something weird or explain something that wouldn't make sense to Twilight rather then being an actual character. In Princess Twilight I just feel like they had her show up to give an excuse to have those flashbacks with the potion. It just seems odd to me that she would brew a potion that only works on 4 known characters at the time especially since she only routinely sees one. I thought she was handled a bit better in Cutie Remark but again I can't help but feel like she's mainly there just to drop exposition about time travel and give a fairly weak explanation as to why despite the same general thing being achieved drastically different outcomes end up happening. (Not that I care that much. I thought it was really cool seeing the alternate timelines where each of the bad guys won) Overall I do think she could have been a lot more then a character that just randomly shows up whenever they need something to push the plot forward but like I said there's a long list of secondary/tertiary characters that deserve better then what they got. (I really want to like Cadence and Shining Armor but 4 seasons since their introduction and I'm still not given much to work with besides that they're generically nice people and they frequently emasculate Shining Armor so he can be the butt of jokes)
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
"Bridle Gossip" really is carried by the poison joke gags, so yeah, if you don't like that, then the entire thing falls apart. I personally found them quite amusing, and thought the humor justified Rainbow continuing to fly even when she had no control. Everyone's fear of Zecora was definitely out of place even then, so I felt that was the weakest part of the episode.

I hadn't thought about it, but the lack of background music when they're talking about Zecora always did strike me as odd. I can't say I've noticed Twilight's voice sounding all that different. Offhand, the only season 1 episode she sounded odd in to my knowledge is "Winter Wrap Up", where she was way more perky and excitable than usual.

As for Zecora compared to Trixie and Luna, part of the issue is that Zecora does appear pretty often, but they never actually do anything character-wise with her. Meanwhile, Trixie and Luna get episodes actually about them.
 
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