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The State of Hawaii announces action to address predatory practices at EA and others.

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Agreed. I don't see any difference between this and like 90% of mobile games. Maybe Hawaii should start regulating what Android and Apple sell on their devices.

90% of the mobile industry is trash that should die. I will cheer the day loot box infected mobile games are shut down. The entire mobile game industry needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt around paying for games and getting what you paid for. Free 2 Pay games with shitty designs that target children to pay over and over again for advancement are bad enough. Loot boxes make them, IMO, illegal.

I don't need anything in BF2 to play the game. If I want to try and earn it by taking a chance on a crate, I can choose to do so. However, eggs are yummy and great in cakes and I buy them from proper stores that don't require me to gamble to win them.

Ahh I see, just a complete troll then. Carry on.
 

Alebelly

Member
And with you, sir. You know, I tend to help others when I play these games and don’t focus on unlocks. Perhaps some day we will find ourselves taking an objective together with our standard edition unlocks and defeat the purple carded elitists.

lol, I would like that
 
So, if a buy a crate with points I earned in the game and the satisfaction of watching a purple card fly out is strong and appealing to me, I am a bad person? Perhaps we can make games shock us (literally) when we earn something so we are always reminded that earning something is not to be enjoyed.

This is science, not morality.

You play a game for fun. However, the game also has a feature that has nothing to do with fun, it has to do with exploiting human behavior. The fun of the game is the initial appeal, but once you start playing, you realize there is more fun to be had by obtaining rewards with in-game currency that you earn by playing. You then realize the rewards that you really want require a lot more in-game currency than you have, so you play to earn more. Then the game exposes how there is even more fun that is essentially out of reach unless you open your wallet and spend actual money. You started out with a small investment- free in-game currency- that amounted to a distraction or curiosity, but before long you are spending actual money. You spend $5, but you don't get the reward you wanted. Well, you already spent $5, why not another $5? Again, you didn't get the reward you wanted. What's another $5 at this point? You already spent $10 and you still don't have what you want, and the law of averages dictates you should 'win' this time... and if not this time, then definitely next time. You don't want to just throw away $10 with nothing to show for it. Now you're completely hooked, you're gambling.

That's just one scenario showing how these predatory practices are corrupting gaming. There are worse scenarios, like 'level up' shortcuts that people are almost forced to buy because they are shunned from being able to participate in various online modes, like in NBA2K.
 

Bickle2

Member
Frankly the actual legislation needed should encompass the real gambling industry as well, and that would be holding them legally responsible for bankrupting mentally ill people who can’t stop gambling. When you walk into a casino, they facial recognition you, and they have a lot of base information do they can snag undercover whales. They track your gambling and use this information to detrrrminr hoe much credit to extend. So they know when they’re destroying lives. Same should go here. To spend more than day $500 on such things, you should have to provide proof of income in a calendar year.

As far as children go, it’s also up to the platform holders to provide tools, and most of all parents to control them.

But “let’s save the gambling addicts from thr,selves” doesn’t go over nearly as well as “won’t somebody think of the children?” With the voters. And games are still the paddling boy du jour.
 

LordRaptor

Member
I see we've got at least one or two EA shills who've joined the discussion. Oh goody. :)

If your mind is so closed to a topic that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll or a shill, why even have the debate?
Just stand in an echo chamber and go "good post"
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
genius, I cant wait to hear you're theory on quantum entanglement

Access to parents wallets is missing the point. When a games progression is based around the random event of loot box rewards, you've fundamentally introduced a gambling scheme into the game. Should adults be made aware of these mechanisms in order to make a more informed purchase, I believe so. Do what you want with you're own kids, more power to you.
cd117fb1a9b00f4c89ec25706b6caba4--meme-lips.jpg
 
If your mind is so closed to a topic that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll or a shill, why even have the debate?
Just stand in an echo chamber and go "good post"

Projecting a bit there, aren't ya sport? Because I said one or two shills that necessarily means that I'm FOREVER CLOSED OFF TO ALL DEBATE on the topic? Could u be a little more dramatic? Lol Jesus, this place. There's a wide chasm between a good, rational argument and what is passing for it from a couple of the posters in this thread. It's not hard to spot the difference.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I see we've got at least one or two EA shills who've joined the discussion. Oh goody. :)
You, sir or madam, are incorrect.

Projecting a bit there, aren't ya sport? Because I said one or two shills that necessarily means that I'm FOREVER CLOSED OFF TO ALL DEBATE on the topic? Could u be a little more dramatic? Lol Jesus, this place. There's a wide chasm between a good, rational argument and what is passing for it from a couple of the posters in this thread. It's not hard to spot the difference.
I have provided pretty level praise and criticism of this game. There are a ton of people who have come out and ripped this game without even trying it and are blatantly using SWBF2 as a punching bag. I am not a fan of people buying wins, but I am not convinced that this game will return to the prelaunch system either. There is a really good Star Wars game here and I encourage people to at least rent it.
 
Good. EA screwed the pooch hard on this deal. I can't figure out how the execs actually thought this P2W lootbox bullshit was going to skate by. Did they really believe most people would just grin and eat the shit sandwich? Mind boggling.

I still haven't opened my Xbone copy of the game bc I've been waiting to see how things develop. I've got 45 days to return it if need be.

That's very easy. EA execs had years of experience telling them gamers will accept every abuse.
 
I believe representatives in the Australian government are also making moves to label loot crates as gambling. It all sounds good to me.
 

gioGAF

Member
Happy to see at least someone here in the US addressing the issue. Hopefully it doesn't get swept under the rug and forgotten, hopefully it leads to some real action on the subject. I won't be happy until these "predatory practices" in games get the proper labeling they deserve: Adults Only (AO)

It has been sad to watch games devolve into this. Little by little, the corporate greed has been eroding this medium, until EA finally took the dive with something that has enough of a presence and reputation to get media attention. Funny enough, not much of a fuss was raised about Shadow of Mordor which is equally loaded with this gambling shit.

Lol at all the apologists defending this crap. You have all been well indoctrinated. For the record, I don't care if a game has loot boxes and other gambling hooks, you can gamble to your hearts content for all I care, the only thing that needs to be done is the game needs to be "Adults Only", that is all.

Anything with these games of chance + money should be labeled as such. Stuff like "Overwatch" and "Call of Duty: WW2" come to mind. If you are using money to spin a slot machine for a prize, you are gambling, end of story.
 

gioGAF

Member
I play EA games and don’t make in-game purchases. Am I accepting abuse?
Are you twelve years old? The whole point is that this stuff should be directed at adults only. If you are an adult, you can do whatever you want. But a child buying something like Battlefront 2 doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what they are being subjected to, how they are being manipulated nor the psychology behind the in-game purchases that involve games of chance.

The nickel and diming with straight purchases was one thing (and apparently not enough for these greedy pigs), my PlayStation is basically a slot machine these days. Sure, I can ignore the microtransactions and I see right through them (*cough*Call of Duty:WW2*cough*) but my little cousins don't get it and are asking their parents for money so they can have a better chance at doing well at the game.
 

Kid Ying

Member
This has to be the best Star Wars promotion, right before the movie launches.

I honestly don't believe its going to change anything in regards to the movie. I sure hope it does, cause i've made a bet that the movie is not going to crack 2 billion, but i don't think ea fuckup is going to matter in big scheme.

But it's going to see EA sweating. Thats for sure.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I bet theres a lot of ass kicking and bollockings going on at EA,this is a PR nightmare for them.

After watching this

https://youtu.be/uTv07AGpQsg

Im struggling to see why EA is getting singled out, it seems no different to what World of tanks, rainbow 6 siege and call of duty titles do.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Are you twelve years old? The whole point is that this stuff should be directed at adults only. If you are an adult, you can do whatever you want. But a child buying something like Battlefront 2 doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what they are being subjected to, how they are being manipulated nor the psychology behind the in-game purchases that involve games of chance.

The nickel and diming with straight purchases was one thing (and apparently not enough for these greedy pigs), my PlayStation is basically a slot machine these days. Sure, I can ignore the microtransactions and I see right through them (*cough*Call of Duty:WW2*cough*) but my little cousins don't get it and are asking their parents for money so they can have a better chance at doing well at the game.
In the case of the hypothetical child outlined above, where do their parents and the very feature-rich parental controls consoles have come into play?

Also, in its current form, you cannot pay to win in Battlefront 2. Are your cousins getting money from their parents to buy stuff in CODWW2?
 

gioGAF

Member
In the case of the hypothetical child outlined above, where do their parents and the very feature-rich parental controls consoles have come into play?
The problem here is that you are getting "Adults Only" content with a "Teen"/"Mature" label on it. Sure the parents need to be watchful, but parental controls wouldn't do much if the content is mislabeled. When I bought my niece the movie "Shrek", I didn't check to see if the manufacturer had put a porno in the box.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The problem here is that you are getting "Adults Only" content with a "Teen"/"Mature" label on it. Sure the parents need to be watchful, but parental controls wouldn't do much if the content is mislabeled. When I bought my niece the movie "Shrek", I didn't check to see if the manufacturer had put a porno in the box.
Just to be clear, you are saying loot boxes in games is like Dreamworks slipping porno into Shrek? Also, how do see kids evading parental controls and having revenue to make in-game purchases?
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The game would be just a deck and u would have to buy atleast 4 lootboxes with a chance of getting wheels for it.
That is actually a gross exaggeration . BF2 is fully functional out of the box. So is Battlefield 1 and FIFA and Titanfall 2. Saying a Skate game would have skate decks without wheels is a sensationally inaccurate representation of loot boxes.
 

alienator

Member
That is actually a gross exaggeration . BF2 is fully functional out of the box. So is Battlefield 1 and FIFA and Titanfall 2. Saying a Skate game would have skate decks without wheels is a sensationally inaccurate representation of loot boxes.

Oh it is, just having a little fun here, i mean, i wouldnt be suprised anymore if this did happen to a new Skate game by EA.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Oh it is, just having a little fun here, i mean, i wouldnt be suprised anymore if this did happen to a new Skate game by EA.
Has EA released a game so incomplete that it is unplayable without micro transactions? What makes you think EA would do this over say Activision or Ubisoft?
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Are you twelve years old? The whole point is that this stuff should be directed at adults only. If you are an adult, you can do whatever you want. But a child buying something like Battlefront 2 doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what they are being subjected to, how they are being manipulated nor the psychology behind the in-game purchases that involve games of chance.

The nickel and diming with straight purchases was one thing (and apparently not enough for these greedy pigs), my PlayStation is basically a slot machine these days. Sure, I can ignore the microtransactions and I see right through them (*cough*Call of Duty:WW2*cough*) but my little cousins don't get it and are asking their parents for money so they can have a better chance at doing well at the game.
So, you think EA is targeting 12 year olds who buy their own games and are flush with cash to the point they can be preyed upon to give up said cash on virtual loot boxes?
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Does not change the fact that lots of the content for classes, weapons and so on is gated behind a shitty system.
We could debate the difference between unplayable and “shitty system” but I suspect you may find something else wrong with this game that you have already played a bunch of to come to these conclusions. Just out of curiosity, how much have you played it?

I have leveled my Heavy up to a 13 and have unlocked almost all of the content for the second gun. Seems on par with most shooters these days as far as a rate to unlock. And I am on the Standard edition and am unable to buy any crates outside of earned credits (which I have used to unlock Vader and Luke).
 
EA must hate customers like me. I always wait for sales and I've never in my life bought Microtransactions or DLC for any of their games.

I have no problem ignoring all cosmetic options, I just don't understand the appeal. If it starts being a P2W or a purposely slow upgrade system to make money (I'm looking at you NBA2K), then I just return or sell the game once I've sucked all the "free" fun I paid for out of it that I can.

I would rather stop gaming than feed in to their greed. Same goes with movie/music sales riddled with DRM and/or locked to devices... I'll take that with full control or no sale thanks. End result of them insisting on such ridiculously rigid restrictions is that I download for free instead, right or wrong, I refuse to participate.

Greed Greed Greed. All the 1% does now is try even hard to rape the 99% for what little they have left, its absolutely disgusting modern day oligarchy we're witnessing.
 
We could debate the difference between unplayable and “shitty system” but I suspect you may find something else wrong with this game that you have already played a bunch of to come to these conclusions. Just out of curiosity, how much have you played it?

I have leveled my Heavy up to a 13 and have unlocked almost all of the content for the second gun. Seems on par with most shooters these days as far as a rate to unlock. And I am on the Standard edition and am unable to buy any crates outside of earned credits (which I have used to unlock Vader and Luke).

None as i don't wanna support a game and publisher that has these systems in place. And no i am not gonna rent it, renting games aren't even a thing in Sweden.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
None as i don't wanna support a game and publisher that has these systems in place. And no i am not gonna rent it, renting games aren't even a thing in Sweden.
So, you have characterized a game you have not played as “unplayable” with a “shitty system”. Pro tip: if you say something is unplayable, try playing it first.
 

BANGS

Banned
Have people forgotten that children only can buy things on their consoles if mommy and daddy give them access to a credit card and a password tied to an account?

Don't you know? The government raises our children, now. And with new millennial parents, the nanny states are really gonna have to step it up...
 
Ok. What is a good system?

How progression worked in every MP game with progression, before this loot box crap. That was a pretty good system. Even in CoD: WW2 you level up your soldier when playing, level up your weapon and unlocks for it when shooty bang bang people with it.

Not having to grind for credits that you use to open up loot crates where you hope to not get shitty useless emotes but instead useful cards you upgrade classes with. See the difference? I don't even get how one can like and defend this crappy progression.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
How progression worked in every MP game with progression, before this loot box crap. That was a pretty good system. Even in CoD: WW2 you level up your soldier when playing, level up your weapon and unlocks for it when shooty bang bang people with it.

Not having to grind for credits that you use to open up loot crates where you hope to not get shitty useless emotes but instead useful cards you upgrade classes with. See the difference? I don't even get how one can like and defend this crappy progression.
Did you know there are class specific crates that have cards in them and you can also craft cards?
 
Did you know there are class specific crates that have cards in them and you can also craft cards?

And it is still pretty damn shitty system since you might not get what you want anyway. Why do you like this system?

Anyway i am downloading the game on Origin Access now since i already had that on PC, only thing EA that actually has some value. Since you can play The Sims 4, BF1, Titanfall 2 and so on for $25 a year.
 
Battlefront 2 and NFS Payback.

That comment tells me right there you have not played NFS Payback. Loot crates in that game have little to no effect on the progression of that game.

Don't comment on games that you have no experience with, or at the very least do some research on the game you intend to trash before repeating what you heard when you jumped on the bandwagon.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
And it is still pretty damn shitty system since you might not get what you want anyway. Why do you like this system?

Anyway i am downloading the game on Origin Access now since i already had that on PC, only thing EA that actually has some value. Since you can play The Sims 4, BF1, Titanfall 2 and so on for $25 a year.
The system is like the first one in many ways. I honestly care more about those Battlefield/Battlefront moments. I also like the system promoted experimentation with new weapons and that often opens up new ideas for approaches to combat.
 

Petrae

Member
“We didn’t allow Joe Camel to encourage your kids to smoke cigarettes, and we shouldn’t allow Star Wars to encourage your kids to gamble.” — Sean Quinlan, Hawaii State Representative, on Star Wars Battlefront II

Disney’s gotta be seething at EA over this comparison. Not that it’s promoting the risk of cancer like Joe Camel did, but it’s promoting a vice for all ages in gambling that’s generally regulated strictly to keep away from minors.

Maybe the ESRB has to create a new rating for games that contain gambling with real money to keep minors from buying them. Much like with video game violence, it’s better that the industry regulate and correct itself than to have government step in and do it.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
“We didn’t allow Joe Camel to encourage your kids to smoke cigarettes, and we shouldn’t allow Star Wars to encourage your kids to gamble.” — Sean Quinlan, Hawaii State Representative, on Star Wars Battlefront II

Disney’s gotta be seething at EA over this comparison. Not that it’s promoting the risk of cancer like Joe Camel did, but it’s promoting a vice for all ages in gambling that’s generally regulated strictly to keep away from minors.

Maybe the ESRB has to create a new rating for games that contain gambling with real money to keep minors from buying them. Much like with video game violence, it’s better that the industry regulate and correct itself than to have government step in and do it.

Comparing this game to cigarettes makes the state representative look wildly misinformed.
 
That comment tells me right there you have not played NFS Payback. Loot crates in that game have little to no effect on the progression of that game.

Don't comment on games that you have no experience with, or at the very least do some research on the game you intend to trash before repeating what you heard when you jumped on the bandwagon.

The system is like the first one in many ways. I honestly care more about those Battlefield/Battlefront moments. I also like the system promoted experimentation with new weapons and that often opens up new ideas for approaches to combat.

EA defense force out in full force i see.
 

atpbx

Member
Regulation? First, EA has turned off the ability to purchase crystals and has sworn to fix it. Second, people need to remind politicians that before they start preaching about protecting children from purchasing unwanted content on their “gamestations”, they should learn how consoles allow parents to strictly restrict access to mature content AND limit the amount spent on an account. Third, if people are railing on Battlefront 2’s gameplay without playing it and are using it as means to complain about play to win, then you are not helping.

Lets not take this down the “please think of the children” bullshit path.

Cant we all just agree that loot boxes and micro transacrions in full priced games are a fucking cancer and they need to die.
 
We could debate the difference between unplayable and “shitty system” but I suspect you may find something else wrong with this game that you have already played a bunch of to come to these conclusions. Just out of curiosity, how much have you played it?

I have leveled my Heavy up to a 13 and have unlocked almost all of the content for the second gun. Seems on par with most shooters these days as far as a rate to unlock. And I am on the Standard edition and am unable to buy any crates outside of earned credits (which I have used to unlock Vader and Luke).

While I have no doubt that Battlefront 2 must have some redeeming qualities and it's probably unfair to use it as a poster boy for everything wrong in the industry, it's maybe going to die a useful death because of the part I underlined. Shooters these days are getting closer and closer to a full on pay to win scenario and that's just not good for anybody.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Lets not take this down the “please think of the children” bullshit path.

Cant we all just agree that loot boxes and micro transacrions in full priced games are a fucking cancer and they need to die.
I agree. So you are opposed to the ridiculous statement by the representative from Hawaii?
 
EA defense force out in full force i see.

Don't like the truth? The only things you get out of a loot box in NFS that you cant get by playing the game are vanity items. And they're crappy ones too. Unless you think neon underglow, colored nitrous effects and musical horn effects are that important that you can't progress in the game.
 
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