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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer

Reiko

Banned
You can take it as a repeat of this generation from Microsoft's perspective. If you want the definitive version of all of these games, XB720 is the console to buy, at least unless you own a high powered PC.

It likely means that they will then port (sort of as an afterthought) to PS4, which means an extension of your experience with the PS3.

Also he is likely referring to the 8 core rumor from before, which means PS4 might have a hard time getting ports if CPU is intensively used... A lot of this is unclear but these consoles might not be much like each other. Especially if Microsoft is going with 8 cores at 1.6GHz and 16 threads, while PS4 is going with a quad core with 4 threads (AMD's designs limit them to 1 thread per core) But if they really do stick with A10, they could at least have possibly more powerful cores.

We will likely know a lot more soon, I've been starting to hear rumors of announcements coming, there is CES soon, and that could be a place where they announce their consoles, GDC is not too far beyond that, but for certain by E3 we should know a lot more than we did about Wii U last year at that time.

I won't be so sure of that. Sony shouldn't be going for a bizarre architecture like the PS2 & PS3 this time. For proper third party support they will need to follow the PS1 model.

Console parity could be achieved if they follow this route.
 
So could we interpret this as Microsoft having clearer direction in both hardware and service design than Sony?

I think it would mean that Microsoft is ahead of Sony at this point in terms of knowing what they want to do and letting 3rd parties in on what they want to do.

And that makes sense considering the management shakeup that's gone on at Sony over the last couple of years. Long term plans and roadmaps are generally reworked when new people get put in charge. You get put in charge of a company or product line to implement your own vision, not execute someone elses.
 

ekim

Member
I'd interpret it as Sony's schedule in getting information and tools out to all developers lagging Microsoft's. The comment talks about things he heard 'over the past year' - so depending on who he was talking to and when, different people might well have been in the loop on 720 at certain points but not PS4, assuming PS4 is a little behind 720 in terms of dev kit distribution, 'education'/training etc.

When I look at the changelog of some RAD Game tools there was added a new secret platform in october this year while durango was accidentally mentioned already in July and the corresponding "added a new secret platform" was there in may.

This could mean a launch of the PS4 ~6 months after the 720 or Sony foccusing on first party titles for a launch in 2013.
 
I won't be so sure of that. Sony shouldn't be going for a bizarre architecture like the PS2 & PS3 this time. For proper third party support they will need to follow the PS1 model.

Yeah, it'd be surprising if they went crazy again. The Vita seems like it's a model for their future. They went around getting input on what developers wanted from it. It's apparently easier to develop for it than any previous PS hardware.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
I won't be so sure of that. Sony shouldn't be going for a bizarre architecture like the PS2 & PS3 this time. For proper third party support they will need to follow the PS1 model.

Yeah I would not assume devs leading on and/or 'preferring' 720 to PS4 from a development pov necessarily would mean a repeat of PS3's situation with multiplats at all. Or vice versa, for that matter. If PS4 is relatively straightforward and competitively powerful it'll be a different scenario in terms of keeping PS4 versions up to par, or indeed, when porting PS4 leads to 720 (whereas some PS3 leads to 360 versions were also less than brilliant).
 

jaosobno

Member
Hardware design is a no brainer... They are the brainchilds behind DX11...

And also the guys behind RROD.

I was referring to a possibility of Microsoft having final hardware fleshed out while Sony is still undecided regarding final specs/design, so devs don't know what they will be dealing with in PS4.

It seems to me (judging by the reports made by Jeff and others) that Sony is barking at the multiple APU door. The question is will they abandon it (what kind of performance will it offer) and go more traditional way (CPU/APU+discrete GPU).
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
When I look at the changelog of some RAD Game tools there was added a new secret platform in october this year while durango was accidentally mentioned already in July and the corresponding "added a new secret platform" was there in may.

This could mean a launch of the PS4 ~6 months after the 720 or Sony foccusing on first party titles for a launch in 2013.

Interesting. A lag of a few months on general dev awareness sounds about right to me. I remember when first rumours of 720 dev kits arrived, it was a couple of months ahead of PS4 rumours, IIRC. Of course it'll depend on who you talk to and their relative 'closeness' to one or other company, but I've taken it as given that PS4's dev rollout has been a slightly more recent thing than Microsoft's.
 

thuway

Member
You can take it as a repeat of this generation from Microsoft's perspective. If you want the definitive version of all of these games, XB720 is the console to buy, at least unless you own a high powered PC.

It likely means that they will then port (sort of as an afterthought) to PS4, which means an extension of your experience with the PS3.

Sony will launch 3-6 months later with hardware that is either on par or more powerful. They are not going to make the same mistake of going exotic and ignoring third party support. They have shown, especially the last two years, they are a company based around gaming. The amount of stuff shown in the last two years- is highly indictactive this company is serious about gaming. They will do whatever they can to stay on par.

Microsoft is the one you should be wondering about. They might have clear hardware goals, but their software ecosystem is a total jank at the moment.
 

z0m3le

Banned
I won't be so sure of that. Sony shouldn't be going for a bizarre architecture like the PS2 & PS3 this time. For proper third party support they will need to follow the PS1 model.

Console parity could be achieved if they follow this route.

Actually from what he is talking about, it isn't Sony that has the off beat design, it's Microsoft. But Developers are comfortable OR at least they have already chosen to push Microsoft as the lead platform. A 16 thread CPU can't be matched with AMD, also 16 threads is only really possible from IBM or Intel, both of which crush AMD in architecture (clock for clock performance)

If Sony does stick to A10 though, they can certainly hit a much higher clock rate (say 3GHz) on a quad core design with 4 threads vs 8 cores @ 1.6GHz with 16 threads from either Intel or IBM.

There is no reason for Microsoft to build a console that works like Sony's, so from the rumors, they have an odd ball console that will have the major studios focusing on their designs, meaning basically an extension of this last generation.
 

ekim

Member
Actually from what he is talking about, it isn't Sony that has the off beat design, it's Microsoft. But Developers are comfortable OR at least they have already chosen to push Microsoft as the lead platform. A 16 thread CPU can't be matched with AMD, also 16 threads is only really possible from IBM or Intel, both of which crush AMD in architecture (clock for clock performance)

If Sony does stick to A10 though, they can certainly hit a much higher clock rate (say 3GHz) on a quad core design with 4 threads vs 8 cores @ 1.6GHz with 16 threads from either Intel or IBM.

There is no reason for Microsoft to build a console that works like Sony's, so from the rumors, they have an odd ball console that will have the major studios focusing on their designs, meaning basically an extension of this last generation.

For multiplatform titles, especially those with licensed engines, the platform with lowest number of logical cores will be the lead platform. Like this gen (MS had less cores with higher clock speed and a common architecture --> Multiplatform titles mostly look and run better on the 360 but PS3 exclusives which use the whole PS3 power look much better than any 360 game).

But I really hope, 3rd party devs have pushed MS and Sony to use more or less a similar architecture.
 

Razgreez

Member
So many outlandish assumptions being made without any substantiation. Let's stick to the facts, what little there are, and use logical inference only
 

z0m3le

Banned
I was referring to a possibility of Microsoft having final hardware fleshed out while Sony is still undecided regarding final specs/design, so devs don't know what they will be dealing with in PS4.

It seems to me (judging by the reports made by Jeff and others) that Sony is barking at the multiple APU door. The question is will they abandon it (what kind of performance will it offer) and go more traditional way (CPU/APU+discrete GPU).

This is also a problem, moving those GPU resources from the APU into a Discrete GPU and putting it on a large MCM (thus turning the APU into a CPU), or taking the large GPU and moving it onto the GPU part of an APU would result in cheaper, more powerful hardware, with less bottlenecks and would in the end run cooler and use less wattage.

Say a 1.8TFLOP GPU with a 200GFLOP APU would be out powered by a 2TFLOP GPU in every context, there is no benefit here.

Sony will launch 3-6 months later with hardware that is either on par or more powerful. They are not going to make the same mistake of going exotic and ignoring third party support. They have shown, especially the last two years, they are a company based around gaming. The amount of stuff shown in the last two years- is highly indictactive this company is serious about gaming. They will do whatever they can to stay on par.

Microsoft is the one you should be wondering about. They might have clear hardware goals, but their software ecosystem is a total jank at the moment.

That is the thing... you need a lot more power if you aren't going to have inferior ports on your system, because you have to make up for all those design choices developers went with that benefit the X720's unique design. This is why Xbox generally had perfect ports of PS2 games that were IQ superior, while Gamecube that was arguably more powerful than the PS2 lagged behind in the ports they were given, because those games were designed for PS2 and ported to these later consoles. You can find some interesting posts on Beyond3D where developers will talk about porting from the PS2 to Xbox and Gamecube, they would throw the code on to the other platforms, and Xbox would be so much faster that they actually had to slow the game down to compensate, while Gamecube would run the code but usually with a loss of frame rate.

For multiplatform titles, especially those with licensed engines, the platform with lowest number of logical cores will be the lead platform. Like this gen (MS had less cores with higher clock speed and a common architecture --> Multiplatform titles mostly look and run better on the 360 but PS3 exclusives which use the whole PS3 power look much better than any 360 game).

But I really hope, 3rd party devs have pushed MS and Sony to use more or less a similar architecture.
That first paragraph is pretty much my reasoning though, Devs will continue as if nothing has happened, and if PS4 uses an AMD CPU, there is no way they will reach 16 threads.

That's what we're doing :p
;)
 

Sid

Member
For multiplatform titles, especially those with licensed engines, the platform with lowest number of logical cores will be the lead platform. Like this gen (MS had less cores with higher clock speed and a common architecture --> Multiplatform titles mostly look and run better on the 360 but PS3 exclusives which use the whole PS3 power look much better than any 360 game).

But I really hope, 3rd party devs have pushed MS and Sony to use more or less a similar architecture.
I don't think wiiu has the slightest chance to be the 'lead' platform or the 'PS2' of next gen,devs will target 2 consoles which are similar power wise regardless of architecture like they are doing now and i don't think ps4 will have nearly as exotic architecture as the ps3.
 
This is also a problem, moving those GPU resources from the APU into a Discrete GPU and putting it on a large MCM (thus turning the APU into a CPU), or taking the large GPU and moving it onto the GPU part of an APU would result in cheaper, more powerful hardware, with less bottlenecks and would in the end run cooler and use less wattage.

Say a 1.8TFLOP GPU with a 200GFLOP APU would be out powered by a 2TFLOP GPU in every context, there is no benefit here.
That's true for a 2014 full HSA GPU with context switching on the same memory pool but might not be true for a 7000 series GPU. SO depends on what's coming. ;)

RE: which is released first

I think announcements will occur at the same time but ramp up of inventory levels must occur for Sony. Sony is not going to want to spend 50 million dollars on advertising if there is no product to meet the demand they generate, they can't afford to do this. The 10's of thousands of us keeping ourselves informed will buy the first three months inventory without advertising.

z0m3le said:
and if PS4 uses an AMD CPU, there is no way they will reach 16 threads.
What about 4 Jaguar CPU packages? That's (4X4) 16 Jaguar CPUs. AMD uses a 4 way Crossbar switch and Steamroller desktop CPUs come two to a CPU package with Jaguar 4 to a CPU package meant to attach to the Xbar switch. So Max total of 8 Steamrollers or 16 Jaguar CPUs can fit on that Xbar switch. Or with 2014 designs, other CPU packages including FPGA or 1PPU4SPU MPA packages. Just has to be 4 or less packages.

AMD and the use of the term cores instead of CPU packages is confusing everyone. There is also that the Steamroller as portrayed in slides has a common prefetch and common L2 so it's design can confuse and some may think it's a dual thread CPU instead of two CPUs sharing a common Prefetch and L2.
 

Grim1ock

Banned
it doesn't work like that! This should be in ever tech thread OP!!

Clock speed for the most part doesnt mean much when comparing different CPU architectures for example the Wii U's 3 core Out of order 1.2ghz CPU is roughly on par with the Xbox 360's 3 core 3.2Ghz CPU this is because of the difference in architecture.

you can however compare CPU's of the same architecture using clock speed a 3.5ghz Core i5 is definitely faster than a 2.4ghz i5 for example.

it is highly likely that Sony will go with a clock speed between 2 -3 ghz to save on power usage and to lower heat dissipation it may mean that we get reliable consoles again when compared to this gen!

even if sony went with a really slow cpu, its quite possible that it could outperform the cell

Sony going backwards with their CPU in terms of clock speed would be the most hilarious thing and i will tell you why.

Sony's first party developers have resorted to using every inch of the cell's capabilities in order to maximise their game performance and make up for the deficiencies of the RSX and small memory available. Infact the constant research led to things like deferred rendering and MLAA.

Sony's developers have become well versed in their CPU coding skills. Giving them a garbage cpu with a clock speed that is inferior to the cell like a slap to a developer's face. You are supposed to go forwards in technology not backwards.

It's time to give them a scalar exponential power instead of reinventing the wheel with an inferior processor.

I think sony going with a whole new company with no track record of developing good cpus is going to bite them in the ass.

You have to be incredibly stupid to go for AMD when their own designs and engineers alongside IBM ought to be good enough. Remember sony is a hardware company and they are in danger of losing their signature mark at the rate they are going.

If MS rumours are to believed then it makes a further mockery of sony. MS a software company is going balls out with their own specs using what they have gleaned this gen thereby making the process of moving to a new generation that much easier.

Sony if rumours are to believed is dumping everything this generation to for something else. Something that apparently has less clock speed then what they have no. You have to be a company run by clowns to think and work this way.
 

StevieP

Banned
Interesting; sweetvar26 posts have been deleted and Proelite who started this thread about NukeZilla Durango leaks has been banned and there are no links in the NeoGAF database if you try to find his posts.

Using NukeZilla as a starting point I found the site that had the Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint and posted as the last post a link to that find. It was taken down within days of bgassassin starting a thread on NeoGAF about the leak.

Is speculation getting too close to the mark? Will bgassassin and I be next.....Stay tuned

Some of it wasn't speculation... That's why it's vanished. Pro elite got a new job with, uh somebody...
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Sony's developers have become well versed in their CPU coding skills. Giving them a garbage cpu with a clock speed that is inferior to the cell like a slap to a developer's face. You are supposed to go forwards in technology not backwards.

There'll be a massively parallel processor in PS4 designed for tightly constrained jobs with certain memory limitations. It just won't be the CPU. 'General' job code will be as multi-threaded as ever also, or require even more parallelism. Much of the higher level patterns of architecting for Cell will transfer and lower level algorithm design experience with SPUs will prove useful in other contexts. The labels on the processors don't matter so much.
 
There'll be a massively parallel processor in PS4 designed for tightly constrained jobs with certain memory limitations. It just won't be the CPU. 'General' job code will be as multi-threaded as ever also, or require even more parallelism. Much of the higher level patterns of architecting for Cell will transfer and lower level algorithm design experience with SPUs will prove useful in other contexts. The labels on the processors don't matter so much.
Yes plus Jaguar or Arm is necessary for power efficiency because the next generation will always be partially on as server and for XTV where the video stream passes through the Xbox 720 or PS4 (RVU or HDMI pass-thru) and browser trigger phrases in the video stream are intercepted. 4 Jaguar CPUs use about 4 watts and Cell uses about 40 watts at the XMB screen (PS3 total 61 watts). AMD GPUs have a zero power mode @ about 5 watts so give or take we are talking 61 watts compared to 9 watts always on 24 hours a day (Assumption is disk drive is off (2 watts) and using 16 gig Flash SSD .3 watts)

720 hours per month PS3= 44Kw hours PS4= 6.4 and @ .16/Kwh $7/month vs $1/month X 100 million game consoles = lots of wasted energy and it will be regulated!

See bottom right which says it all! Xbox 360 limitations "Can't run always on low power states"

Slide4.jpg


I didn't catch that and others assumed Durango would use an ARM processor rather than Jaguar. I think we can now assume Jaguar will be in both consoles. What else, a previous gofreak post, one of the most important besides the Xbox 720 leak is below:

Sony outlines a long term roadmap for Playstation tech: 8K, 300fps, 3D chips and cats
 

Durante

Member
This is also a problem, moving those GPU resources from the APU into a Discrete GPU and putting it on a large MCM (thus turning the APU into a CPU), or taking the large GPU and moving it onto the GPU part of an APU would result in cheaper, more powerful hardware, with less bottlenecks and would in the end run cooler and use less wattage.

Say a 1.8TFLOP GPU with a 200GFLOP APU would be out powered by a 2TFLOP GPU in every context, there is no benefit here.
That's not really true in all regards. Having 2 separate chips can have advantages, 2 I can think of in particular are the achievable total external memory bandwidth and the distributed nature making cooling a bit simpler.
 

z0m3le

Banned
That's not really true in all regards. Having 2 separate chips can have advantages, 2 I can think of in particular are the achievable total external memory bandwidth and the distributed nature making cooling a bit simpler.

1. You would have a lower latency in a MCM or just an APU, which is truly the bottle neck these consoles would face, especially if they do end up pushing DDR4.

2. Airflow being more streamlined in this case would help too, and could negate these effects, also as I mentioned 1 chip will create less heat and use less wattage.

Performance wise though, there is no benefit to going with an APU and separate GPU, look at Crossfire technology, you always lose processing power in the communication.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
1. You would have a lower latency in a MCM or just an APU, which is truly the bottle neck these consoles would face, especially if they do end up pushing DDR4.

2. Airflow being more streamlined in this case would help too, and could negate these effects, also as I mentioned 1 chip will create less heat and use less wattage.

Performance wise though, there is no benefit to going with an APU and separate GPU, look at Crossfire technology, you always lose processing power in the communication.

depends what you're doing. There are latency critical tasks and bandwidth critical tasks.

you could have a smaller GPU on an MCM for latency critical stuff, and larger bandwidth heavy tasks on an external GPU
 

z0m3le

Banned
depends what you're doing. There are latency critical tasks and bandwidth critical tasks.

you could have a smaller GPU on an MCM for latency critical stuff, and larger bandwidth heavy tasks on an external GPU

A pool of eDRAM solves the bandwidth problems, latency and bandwidth btw between the GPU and CPU would both increase from being on the same chip, because you could have a very wide interconnection, at least this is my understanding. There is certainly nothing that should limit bandwidth between the CPU and GPU if they are located together in an APU or on a MCM.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
doesn't solve bandwidth if it's something that cannot be contained within the available pool of edram, but yes, where possible you'd want to use edram (especially assuming the use of slowish memory for the rest)
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Sony going backwards with their CPU in terms of clock speed would be the most hilarious thing and i will tell you why.

Sony's first party developers have resorted to using every inch of the cell's capabilities in order to maximise their game performance and make up for the deficiencies of the RSX and small memory available. Infact the constant research led to things like deferred rendering and MLAA.

Sony's developers have become well versed in their CPU coding skills. Giving them a garbage cpu with a clock speed that is inferior to the cell like a slap to a developer's face. You are supposed to go forwards in technology not backwards.

It's time to give them a scalar exponential power instead of reinventing the wheel with an inferior processor.

I think sony going with a whole new company with no track record of developing good cpus is going to bite them in the ass.

You have to be incredibly stupid to go for AMD when their own designs and engineers alongside IBM ought to be good enough. Remember sony is a hardware company and they are in danger of losing their signature mark at the rate they are going.

If MS rumours are to believed then it makes a further mockery of sony. MS a software company is going balls out with their own specs using what they have gleaned this gen thereby making the process of moving to a new generation that much easier.

Sony if rumours are to believed is dumping everything this generation to for something else. Something that apparently has less clock speed then what they have no. You have to be a company run by clowns to think and work this way.

Why do you keep arguing with people about the clock speed issue? A lower clock speed will still yield much better performance. Yes, a lower clock speed in 2005 would have resulted in worse results but not in 2012. Architectures are much better now. Even with a significantly lower clock speed you'll see significantly improved performance across the board.
 

z0m3le

Banned
lol, people already saying one console is more powerful than the other when we don't even have solid evidence. funny :)

Speculating based on rumors, the most concrete rumor for PS4 is that it's using an A10 quad core (4 cores 4 threads) probably clocked fairly high.

XB720's most concrete rumor is 8 core, 16 threads clocked at 1.6GHz. Both are seemingly using GCN hardware for their GPUs.

But I mean we either speculate on rumors and other possibilities, or we lock these threads and wait for "solid evidence"
 

hodgy100

Member
Sony going backwards with their CPU in terms of clock speed would be the most hilarious thing and i will tell you why.

Sony's first party developers have resorted to using every inch of the cell's capabilities in order to maximise their game performance and make up for the deficiencies of the RSX and small memory available. Infact the constant research led to things like deferred rendering and MLAA.

Sony's developers have become well versed in their CPU coding skills. Giving them a garbage cpu with a clock speed that is inferior to the cell like a slap to a developer's face. You are supposed to go forwards in technology not backwards.

It's time to give them a scalar exponential power instead of reinventing the wheel with an inferior processor.

I think sony going with a whole new company with no track record of developing good cpus is going to bite them in the ass.

You have to be incredibly stupid to go for AMD when their own designs and engineers alongside IBM ought to be good enough. Remember sony is a hardware company and they are in danger of losing their signature mark at the rate they are going.

If MS rumours are to believed then it makes a further mockery of sony. MS a software company is going balls out with their own specs using what they have gleaned this gen thereby making the process of moving to a new generation that much easier.

Sony if rumours are to believed is dumping everything this generation to for something else. Something that apparently has less clock speed then what they have no. You have to be a company run by clowns to think and work this way.

read my post again! I thought i made it very clear clock speed != power!!!!!!!!

Having a clock speed lower than the cell will mean nothing as it is an old processor architecture that uses in order execution which greatly hampers the main core.

assuming the ps4 uses jaguar cores, these cores are likely much more efficient than the cell anyway and they are out-of-order processors which is also a huge plus, add on the fact that its using a newer architecture and a jag cpu with a lower core speed (even if its only 1.6ghz) could quite easily beat the PS3's cell in power. and ployphony will be very happy!
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Speculating based on rumors, the most concrete rumor for PS4 is that it's using an A10 quad core (4 cores 4 threads) probably clocked fairly high.

XB720's most concrete rumor is 8 core, 16 threads clocked at 1.6GHz. Both are seemingly using GCN hardware for their GPUs.

But I mean we either speculate on rumors and other possibilities, or we lock these threads and wait for "solid evidence"

Those same rumors also state that several cores on the next Xbox are going to be dedicated for OS level functions and that the GPU is going to be clocked much lower than the PS4's. I think it'll likely be pretty much a wash in terms of power. I do think there is some truth to the rumors that Durango is turning out to be more powerful than expected. It seems like Sony may be scrambling to up their specs, whether or not it's to catch up or gain a lead is anyone's guess.

read my post again! I thought i made it very clear clock speed != power!!!!!!!!
He's been explained that several times and keeps arguing.
 

GopherD

Member
Given Sweetvar26's post has been removed, does anyone remember its content?
Essentially that Sony further along in manufacturing, weaker than Durango, uses Apu only and around 1.8 tf, anti-used games, toolsets were crappy, likely to wait until 2014 when tech has matured. MS more powerful and encompassing an all in one win8 solution and launching first.
 
Speculating based on rumors, the most concrete rumor for PS4 is that it's using an A10 quad core (4 cores 4 threads) probably clocked fairly high.

XB720's most concrete rumor is 8 core, 16 threads clocked at 1.6GHz. Both are seemingly using GCN hardware for their GPUs.

But I mean we either speculate on rumors and other possibilities, or we lock these threads and wait for "solid evidence"

they're rumors, and this is certainly a thread about ps4 rumors, but making assumptions about orbis and durango being more powerful is just nonsense to me. we don't know the OS features, we don't know memory bandwidth, the amount of ram, etc. who knows if sony really is gonna use an a10 cpu? or if ms is gonna use a 8 core cpu? is microsoft gonna use a tablet and stream games to that? is there gonna be set top box component to the xbox? we "know" a little more about ms's next console, and i'm not discarding the possibility that orbis might not be as powerful, but let's not go out of our way to say "orbis/durango are screwed, their competitor is clearly more powerful" because we can't say that for sure.

i get that people really want next-gen consoles, but isn't january gonna have ces and playstation meeting? let's just wait :)
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Those same rumors also state that several cores on the next Xbox are going to be dedicated for OS level functions and that the GPU is going to be clocked much lower than the PS4's. I think it'll likely be pretty much a wash in terms of power. I do think there is some truth to the rumors that Durango is turning out to be more powerful than expected. It seems like Sony may be scrambling to up their specs, whether or not it's to catch up or gain a lead is anyone's guess.


He's been explained that several times and keeps arguing.

If it is a wash in overall power, but requires significantly different programming approaches to reach that parity, thats not great news if one of the platforms is much simpler to develop for and/or gets enough install base to be the lead platform
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
If it is a wash in overall power, but requires significantly different programming approaches to reach that parity, thats not great news if one of the platforms is much simpler to develop for and/or gets enough install base to be the lead platform
I don't think the architecture differences will becas big as the 360 and PS3.
 
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/12/03/2312241/auto-threading-compiler-could-restore-moores-law-gains

A team there wrote a paper (PDF), now accepted for publication at OOPSLA, that describes how to teach a compiler to auto-thread a program that was written single-threaded in a conventional language like C#. This is the holy grail to take advantage of multiple cores — to get Moore's Law improvements back on track, after they essentially ran aground in the last decade

Part of the plan for massive threading in future consoles?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
The two things I remember from sweetvar's last post were

1) that the Durango project was 'a bigger deal' at AMD, with more resources

2) that Sony's schedule had slipped 6 months, but that they had already received first silicon and was preparing to spin their second rev, while Microsoft were just preparing to receive their first silicon

I don't recall that he directly compared the systems's performance levels or in particular GPU, but I can't be sure of that. His comments, between the required resources and silicon schedule, fitted with the suggestion that Microsoft was using less of a 'stock' approach to CPU.

Been trying, but can't remember anything else. I think he made a couple of references to internal codenames on chips for both.
 

Durante

Member
A pool of eDRAM solves the bandwidth problems
That's a rather simplistic view. There absolutely are tasks were you need external memory bandwidth and eDRAM does not help, just as there are ones which it solves almost completely.


Part of the plan for massive threading in future consoles?
Or incremental progress in the field of automatic parallelization that has been researched since the 80s.
 
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