Garrett Hawke
Member
What is happening here
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"Save Our SIFTD"
- Thread starter Gigarator
- Start date
I guess they seriously need to rethink their business model. I only hear of that site when they have financial troubles and when trying to see what's even on the site, everything is blocked by their paywall. Doesn't help either that their name starts with S and ends with TD (S_TD).
I'd visit their page if they had some cat movies:
Your Wrong. the majority of the site is not behind a paywall. actually there is such thing as a basic account and you have access to everything except the premium content.
Then it's pretty bad design. Because on whatever I click, I am prompted to register. Why not just make it accessible without a basic account. Without your comment, I wouldn't even have known about that.
You had to register for neogaf. I've been a member of NeoGAF for years and I still cannot even create my own thread. talk about a stupid business decision
GAF is Gaming Age Forums.
legacyzero
Banned
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Can confirm I actually went back to watching GT after he left and the EZA lot took over. I still... don't understand what (obviously super important and crucial) role Shane thinks SIFTD has to play in the online videogame coverage space that also necessitates an expensive LA office. Pride cometh before multiple falls down entire flights of stairs it seems.
Basic Membership used to be 10 dollars a year and premium was 50 dollars a year. it was to keep out the riffraff. Keep out kids and make the community civilized. There is no SPAM, there is never any fighting. its a More mature Audience.
You don't have to register to read it.
Yeah, and people apparently don't know and don't use the site when the content is locked behind a registration, especially when most other outlets have their content available entirely without any such lock.
Just looking at their website, I don't see why I should use it. I couldn't check their content, when I was prompted to register multiple times I closed the tab. Only when you told me that there's a free registration, I learnt that parts of that site are usable/visible without paying money.
Anyway, if NeoGAF had no users, there'd also be no spam and no fighting.
HellofaMouse
Member
i know its easier to give advice when its someone else's life, but shane just open up a patreon and do something else imo. just find a couple of smart, opinionated people and do a podcast or something.
everything about siftd, from what it is to its business model, just screams last decade to me.
everything about siftd, from what it is to its business model, just screams last decade to me.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I tell you what, if Shane started a Patreon and locked his videos behind a $1 tier like Brandon does with Cup of Jones for EZA, I'd sub. I know it's not a lot, but it could add up and gain more exposure than previously attempted.
I like Shane and have always enjoyed his angle even though I may not agree, but I'll echo the sentiment that this seclusion he's had with SIFTD is surely hurting his business.
I like Shane and have always enjoyed his angle even though I may not agree, but I'll echo the sentiment that this seclusion he's had with SIFTD is surely hurting his business.
er...neogaf isn't the website having a donation drive
It works off of ad impressions. It does not matter who created a thread, or how old the thread in question is. They just attempt to deliver something you are more likely to click on, and if you view gaming items a lot on Amazon, it works reasonably well.
Anyway, an aggregator should have a mobile application. For most people, just being seated at a computer probably means you have more time to look at articles from the original source.
OttoSporteman
Member
I do like Shane and am one of the 12k yt subscribers only because of Pachter.
Shane seems to think that only building a nice tech will be enough and doesn't invest nor seems to care about marketing.
The messaging is all screwed up and nowadays what matters, honestly, is original content. Anyone can build a personal feed through RSS feeds and thus the value, especially for a tech savvy audience like gamers, seems lost.
He should invest in original, compelling content, like Pachter, maybe bring Marcus Beer and try to join forces with other old school, talented media people.
Shane seems to think that only building a nice tech will be enough and doesn't invest nor seems to care about marketing.
The messaging is all screwed up and nowadays what matters, honestly, is original content. Anyone can build a personal feed through RSS feeds and thus the value, especially for a tech savvy audience like gamers, seems lost.
He should invest in original, compelling content, like Pachter, maybe bring Marcus Beer and try to join forces with other old school, talented media people.
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Hey everyone! Appreciate the feedback and the kind words. Even the harsh kind because it shows me what others are thinking or what hurdles they've encountered in using the site.
The site has a more general name because the original idea was that it would include more than just games. Sports, politics, entertainment, etc. Unfortunately, we haven't grown enough to expand to those areas yet. I also don't get that criticism because names like Kinda Funny or Easy Allies don't scream "video games," either. Everyone thought Wii was stupid, too. It was, but now no one even thinks twice when saying it. What about Yahoo, Google, or thousands of others?
The site wasn't necessarily created for young people with tons of disposable time. It's a service for adults who are incredibly busy and don't have time anymore to visit 15 sites a day or search through dozens of pages on message boards or social media for stuff they actually care about. You set your preferences and you get exactly what you want in one click. Then you can sift all that content by time periods, content types, genres, platforms, etc. if you want.
I get that people fall into habits and human nature keeps them from wanting to break them, but a lot of the feedback I see about the site shows that people haven't actually used it. For instance, folks saying there's nothing that explains what the site does. Aside from the about page, there's a huge link in the header that says "Start Here." It explains everything the site does. It appears we need to look for a way to make it more visible, though. Or people saying it's no different from an RSS feed or a message board. It's simply not true. You may eventually get the same thing from those other vehicles, but you're going to spend a lot more time doing it. Again, I realize that many young folks do not yet look at their time as money or just simply like the community where they get their news and are willing to spend the extra time.
I do take umbrage with the person who attacked my verbiage in the article, though. SIFTD is a family. I know you hear that all the time, but it's true. It's an adult community where people respect each other and have civil conversations about games. A post like the one I'm speaking of would never appear on the site. People just don't act that way. I think the analogy "don't s*** in your own backyard" definitely applies because they're invested in something they pay for. So when I write things like "our cause" it's not BS. We're all in it together because we all believe in it. The more successful the site is the more content its users get for the money they pay. If you don't believe me, look at the comments in the article.
SIFTD is a subscription site by design to keep toxic people off the site and to avoid the worthless ad model. It has worked, but I agree that we have not done a great job of marketing. Marketing costs money, and we don't have a lot of it. We have to be very smart and strategic. I founded the site with my own money I saved. We have no investors, no advertising, and no conflicts of interest. And as some have pointed out, we have issues because we have to walk a line giving away the content people pay for. This is something else we could do a better job of. I agree that our Twitch page is barren compared to others and that's something we should work on, but we don't stream a ton and the market we're targeting doesn't watch a ton of streams, anyway. They don't have the time. Ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, though. We have to make changes and I'm taking all your feedback to heart.
A lot of people (our subscribers included) are suggesting dropping our location, but we want to do more than just talking head stuff and we need a studio to shoot those things. There's also at least some value in production values. Obviously, if it comes to it, the studio will be the first thing to go.
I love GAF. I've been coming here longer than some of its members have been alive I would guess. I don't understand why there is a handful of folks here who always attack me and everything I do. It's the same five or six people over and over again. I've laid down thousands of hours of commentary on video and have written thousands of reviews/editorials and they keep harping on a handful of things I said or wrote over a decade ago. We're all gamers who love the same things and if we knew each other in real life I'm guessing we would be great friends. Despite all the mean things they've said about me and my work which have undoubtedly affected their success, I don't hate them. If you don't like me or my projects and don't want to offer constructive feedback that's fine, but what are you gaining in trying to sabotage me? I'll never understand that way of thinking.
I know this is long-winded, and I apologize for that, but I work so much that I don't get to spend much time on GAF anymore. After looking at this thread I've realized that there are a lot of misconceptions about the site out there and I wanted to take the time to clear them up. GAF is extremely important to any business in the industry. In that respect, I have undoubtedly failed and need to prioritize my time better and focus more on outreach/education. If you'll have me, anyway.
All that said, we're obviously in a tough spot and are willing to make any necessary changes to make it a site more people want to use. So again, thank you for all the constructive feedback. It means a lot. We're having a summit on Monday night to allow folks to offer input and help us map the path forward. Would love to see all of you on the stream because GAF is full of smart folks who know and love the industry. Everyone here can be a huge help. It kicks off at 7PM Pacific on our Twitch channel. Hope to see you all there and much love.
The site has a more general name because the original idea was that it would include more than just games. Sports, politics, entertainment, etc. Unfortunately, we haven't grown enough to expand to those areas yet. I also don't get that criticism because names like Kinda Funny or Easy Allies don't scream "video games," either. Everyone thought Wii was stupid, too. It was, but now no one even thinks twice when saying it. What about Yahoo, Google, or thousands of others?
The site wasn't necessarily created for young people with tons of disposable time. It's a service for adults who are incredibly busy and don't have time anymore to visit 15 sites a day or search through dozens of pages on message boards or social media for stuff they actually care about. You set your preferences and you get exactly what you want in one click. Then you can sift all that content by time periods, content types, genres, platforms, etc. if you want.
I get that people fall into habits and human nature keeps them from wanting to break them, but a lot of the feedback I see about the site shows that people haven't actually used it. For instance, folks saying there's nothing that explains what the site does. Aside from the about page, there's a huge link in the header that says "Start Here." It explains everything the site does. It appears we need to look for a way to make it more visible, though. Or people saying it's no different from an RSS feed or a message board. It's simply not true. You may eventually get the same thing from those other vehicles, but you're going to spend a lot more time doing it. Again, I realize that many young folks do not yet look at their time as money or just simply like the community where they get their news and are willing to spend the extra time.
I do take umbrage with the person who attacked my verbiage in the article, though. SIFTD is a family. I know you hear that all the time, but it's true. It's an adult community where people respect each other and have civil conversations about games. A post like the one I'm speaking of would never appear on the site. People just don't act that way. I think the analogy "don't s*** in your own backyard" definitely applies because they're invested in something they pay for. So when I write things like "our cause" it's not BS. We're all in it together because we all believe in it. The more successful the site is the more content its users get for the money they pay. If you don't believe me, look at the comments in the article.
SIFTD is a subscription site by design to keep toxic people off the site and to avoid the worthless ad model. It has worked, but I agree that we have not done a great job of marketing. Marketing costs money, and we don't have a lot of it. We have to be very smart and strategic. I founded the site with my own money I saved. We have no investors, no advertising, and no conflicts of interest. And as some have pointed out, we have issues because we have to walk a line giving away the content people pay for. This is something else we could do a better job of. I agree that our Twitch page is barren compared to others and that's something we should work on, but we don't stream a ton and the market we're targeting doesn't watch a ton of streams, anyway. They don't have the time. Ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, though. We have to make changes and I'm taking all your feedback to heart.
A lot of people (our subscribers included) are suggesting dropping our location, but we want to do more than just talking head stuff and we need a studio to shoot those things. There's also at least some value in production values. Obviously, if it comes to it, the studio will be the first thing to go.
I love GAF. I've been coming here longer than some of its members have been alive I would guess. I don't understand why there is a handful of folks here who always attack me and everything I do. It's the same five or six people over and over again. I've laid down thousands of hours of commentary on video and have written thousands of reviews/editorials and they keep harping on a handful of things I said or wrote over a decade ago. We're all gamers who love the same things and if we knew each other in real life I'm guessing we would be great friends. Despite all the mean things they've said about me and my work which have undoubtedly affected their success, I don't hate them. If you don't like me or my projects and don't want to offer constructive feedback that's fine, but what are you gaining in trying to sabotage me? I'll never understand that way of thinking.
I know this is long-winded, and I apologize for that, but I work so much that I don't get to spend much time on GAF anymore. After looking at this thread I've realized that there are a lot of misconceptions about the site out there and I wanted to take the time to clear them up. GAF is extremely important to any business in the industry. In that respect, I have undoubtedly failed and need to prioritize my time better and focus more on outreach/education. If you'll have me, anyway.
All that said, we're obviously in a tough spot and are willing to make any necessary changes to make it a site more people want to use. So again, thank you for all the constructive feedback. It means a lot. We're having a summit on Monday night to allow folks to offer input and help us map the path forward. Would love to see all of you on the stream because GAF is full of smart folks who know and love the industry. Everyone here can be a huge help. It kicks off at 7PM Pacific on our Twitch channel. Hope to see you all there and much love.
heres the thing: I didnt. you can browse neogaf without registering. you only register to post.
I was lurking on NeoGAF for years and years before I finally decided to register.
They'd probably be better off living somewhere far cheaper and paying to fly guests in.
NeOak
Member
I lurked GAF since like 2003 then decided to register in 2006.
PanicFreak
Member
I've been a subscriber since almost the very beginning because I really missed invisible walls. The site is really helpful if you look at news once a day or once every week. I'm rooting for them and hope that they can continue.
hiphoptherobot
Member
I totally forgot about SIFTD but wish Shane and company the best of luck and will keep an eye out for any changes coming to the site. Also Shane, if you read this, putting out a video for free every once and awhile like Giant Bomb does with some of their premium content might be a good idea. Basically just show people what they are missing out on.
Yeah the only good content on Siftd is Pachter Factor and I just watch that on Youtube for free (I did follow him on Twitter as requested). Where is the rest of this content? It's not like they're gonna be the next EZA or Noclip, and if the content they are putting out is all locked behind a paywall then why should I even care? Not even sure if it was a good idea, the tech seemed solid but the execution was poor. Good luck to them but I just see no value in their original content and or paying for their aggregation services.
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
The aggregation is free. We have other content besides Pach.
You can lurk on gaf and view threads without a forum account tho so this argument doesn't really work?
unknownstranger
Member
I don't quite understand the logic of a subscription reducing the toxicity of a community. I first got a membership in Runescape when I was 13 and in WoW when I was 14. If you have a product appealing to a younger audience, they'll still come even with a subscription model. I don't like the idea that a younger audience automatically means a more toxic community to begin with though.
BlastProcessing
Member
I used Gaf for years before I had an account. You don't have to register to read Gaf. You don't have to do much of anything to get a complete understanding of what Gaf offers. I still don't understand what SIFTD offers over a Twitter list other than a web 2.0-style disdain for vowels.
JaguarCROW
Member
I am subscriber of SIFTd and I find that it saves me time to find interesting gaming content. It also introduces me to new sources of content I didn't find in manual searches before. I think of it as a Gaming News Artificial Intelligence.
Hopefully with their marketing effort coming soon they can jump on the AI bandwagon and sell it from that angle. The site grows on you and after a bit of time becomes indispensable.
I really do hope they switch to a Patreon like model because I would contribute much more than $4 a month for the service.
Hopefully with their marketing effort coming soon they can jump on the AI bandwagon and sell it from that angle. The site grows on you and after a bit of time becomes indispensable.
I really do hope they switch to a Patreon like model because I would contribute much more than $4 a month for the service.
Tertullian
Member
It's definitely sad when a project someone really believes in doesn't seem to be working out. But I think I have to side with those saying it's just not a viable idea. I think fundamentally, people just like aimlessly browsing video game news and content. Most people aren't desperate to pay big bucks (relatively speaking) for a content aggregator. I get home and I get on NeoGAF and I just see what threads there are. Maybe I could maximize the utility of my free time (or whatever) by investing in an aggregator like this. But I'm not gonna. It reminds me of the Soylent guy who is really genuinely convinced that people deep down want to do away with all that complex, time-wasting cooking stuff. But they, like, don't.
It's the sort of idea you invest thousands of hours into daydreaming about and developing, and you talk yourself into believing that there's some kind of widespread untapped market for it, but it turns out everyone's response is just a shrug. But once you're so invested that you start thinking of your video game website as a "family" and a "cause"... then failure understandably just comes really hard.
And man, I gotta agree with this quote 100%. I can't stop my eyes from rolling right out of my skull whenever I see an entirely online video game commentary joint complaining about the cost of operating in one of the most expensive cities in the entire fucking U.S. If this business is really your dream and your life, fucking move! Why is living outside of fucking California so inconceivable? You can have all your interviews and podcasts over video conference software these days! This is not specifically about SIFTD; the attitude seems endemic among certain groups.
It's the sort of idea you invest thousands of hours into daydreaming about and developing, and you talk yourself into believing that there's some kind of widespread untapped market for it, but it turns out everyone's response is just a shrug. But once you're so invested that you start thinking of your video game website as a "family" and a "cause"... then failure understandably just comes really hard.
And man, I gotta agree with this quote 100%. I can't stop my eyes from rolling right out of my skull whenever I see an entirely online video game commentary joint complaining about the cost of operating in one of the most expensive cities in the entire fucking U.S. If this business is really your dream and your life, fucking move! Why is living outside of fucking California so inconceivable? You can have all your interviews and podcasts over video conference software these days! This is not specifically about SIFTD; the attitude seems endemic among certain groups.
Yeah you do what a podcast? Some reviews? The occasional Youtube video? What do you guys do that makes it worth paying for that I can't get for free elsewhere? You've got to sell it harder than "we have other content".
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Again, the content curation is free. You don't have to pay anything to use the site. You just pay for the original content.
Jerry Orbach
Member
I am a busy adult professional without the time or inclination to read gaming forums. However, it is still imperative that I receive a daily briefing on every minute development in the Bubsy the Bobcat saga. If I could also get my political news from the Bubsy the Bobcat reporter that would be ideal.
dickroach
Member
when you find what you're looking for I want in
While joms5's tone may have been harsh, I do think there were constructive points in there. I also don't think he made the post out of malice, but was rather trying to offer what he believes to be harsh truths. On the whole, I think it was an honest and not unintelligent post. Boasting that such posts wouldn't appear on your site speaks to an insularity that I'm not sure is entirely helpful.
Additionally, the fact that you're using comments from your own subscribers as evidence for your own arguments makes me a little concerned that you're making decisions in an echo chamber. Those are people you have already convinced and who have already bought in; in other words, those aren't the people you most urgently need feedback from. Those are the people you turn to when you want to feel good about your current direction.
Regardless of tone, joms5 offered some of the most detailed advice anyone has given in this thread. Dismissing the whole thing as some kind of egregious misbehavior is likely counterproductive, if you don't mind me saying so.
What I got from your posts here and on your site is that the idea and point of the site, the innovative and useful thing that is supposed to drive people to visit it, is the aggregation. Yet, that's free, and people are supposed to support the "cause" by subscribing to the original content that hasn't anything to do with the aggregation and that isn't previewed anywhere. Dunno if I got something wrong, but if I'm right I think I see a flaw in this plan.
i actually think you just pay lip service to criticism and dont actually take it on board.
heres a specific example. everyone is telling you your twitch presence is weak. they tell you you could at least put some information on the twitch page like a schedule or about us or something. you come online and say you;re listening and appreciate the feedback.
you plugged your big 'constructive feedback summit' on your twitch page. but i just clicked on it and its fucking empty!
there was a guy on the first page telling you exactly what to do and you havent done it. it would take an hour at most. you've had two fucking years.
cmon man. you need to get your shit together. you cant even be fucked to fill out the bio section of your own twitch page, which you fucking JUST pimped, ignoring the advice you say you're after. what. the. fuck.
its 2017 and youre an internet business. its so fucking easy to market these days. and cheap. look, youre shit at it, i get it. so get someone in to do the marketing. get on fiverrr. get on airtasker. you can get people to do CHEAP marketing for you on social media. to run your twitter, your facebook, your youtube, your neogaf. TO UPDATE YOUR SCHEDULE ON TWITCH.
not everyone is cut out to run a business. just like not everyone is cut out to create content. so focus on what youre good at. creating content.
if youre deadset on being a business owner, you need to pivot away from your current product. its not viable. you shouldnt need to beg for donations with a viable business model. ffs man. cant you see that? you need to just start focusing 100% on your content that should be cheap to make. churn out fucking content. and grow your community around that. noone gives a fuck about a paid content aggregator in 2017. we've got free and, frankly, better alternatives.
if you have to come online and defend/explain your product to people in a thread, two years after launch, its too fucking complicated. its just frustrating to see. like what kind of business doesnt have a marketing plan? after four fucking years.
like, honestly, what is the plan?
youre not at viacom anymore dude! you need to realise that! i'm being a cunt and i apologise. but someone needs to snap you out of this fucking dream/nightmare.
It's a shame because I can appreciate the huge amount of hard work that goes into SIFTD, but I just don't understand why I'd want it.
I sound like one of those people who the website is meant to appeal to, but why for instance would I use SIFTD, when I can open a Reddit account for free, subscribe to the topics I'm interested in and let that filter everything out for me instead? Why would I pay?
Edit: okay, so after a bit more reading, the content aggregation is free I believe? But why would I choose it over all the other free options? And the payment is for original content. Again though, why would I pay? There's more good quality content than I could ever hope to consume, available for free. What makes this worth paying for?
I just don't get it.
I sound like one of those people who the website is meant to appeal to, but why for instance would I use SIFTD, when I can open a Reddit account for free, subscribe to the topics I'm interested in and let that filter everything out for me instead? Why would I pay?
Edit: okay, so after a bit more reading, the content aggregation is free I believe? But why would I choose it over all the other free options? And the payment is for original content. Again though, why would I pay? There's more good quality content than I could ever hope to consume, available for free. What makes this worth paying for?
I just don't get it.
Visualante2
Member
Maybe I'm completely off base but when you have a product, produce content and have an experienced team in an office. You're more likely to be acquired compared to working out of your home.
Not saying you can't grow up from a garage. But I just feel like IGN and GameSpots of the world won't acquire a bedroom operation. It just lacks legitimacy.
Not saying you can't grow up from a garage. But I just feel like IGN and GameSpots of the world won't acquire a bedroom operation. It just lacks legitimacy.
It would be worth it if you cared about their personalities and their opinions... But you can't appreciate them unless you pay, so it's a catch-22.
dickroach
Member
lol you totally are.
i'm not gonna quote the whole post so you can maybe edit it when you're sober.
I think this kinda nails the biggest issue
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Same. I wonder if not a lot more other people have this whole reluctance to register somewhere. I went and made a Patreon account to support EZA based on following GT for a the last few years(so sadly after a lot of the old timers I hear about already left). It takes time and reasons for me to jump that hurdle.
For Siftd I was never able to find those reasons but reading that huge answer it does sound like I wasn't really the target audience anyway? Shame cause man I got really interested with EZA sharing some stories and only having good things to say. But there was never any Siftd Shane content openly available for me to see for myself that I could easily find anyway. (On not being the target audience the aggregate functions have no immediately apparent value for me based on my current user habits, I was trying to find out more about Siftd cause of hearing about the person, Shane)
Also if I'm understanding this right there are only fixed levels to support siftd at?
Now I don't necessarily share some of the opinions where people say you gotta be on Patreon. But I will say as student on a somewhat limited budget that also changes depending on what entertainment comes out(especially games) Patreon's flexible tier support structure most people employ is a godsend.
In the first year of EZA I did have to drop to 1 dollar a couple months but as it went on I was also trying to make sure to at least be able to stay at 5 dollars and I'm bouncing back at forth between 5 and 7 as of now as my budget allows. Might drop down again once some JP big hitters hit we'll see. Point is that flexibility is insanely nice. Cause I always feel like I can at least spare a dollar every month which I think is better than having to decide between something higher and nothing.
It has to go, please for your sake. You have been working long hours and not taking a salary for the best part of a year. You are burning the candle at both ends, you can't sustain this.
There are Youtubers with millions of subscribers working from home using passable equipment and okay sound proofing. That's the new reality; production values beyond a certain point have massive diminishing returns, after all it's just web video with poor bit rate that is more likely to be watched on a tablet at the breakfast table than on a TV with a sound system. You're throwing money at a luxury while having to make a plea for donations.
If you can't ditch the PS2 era website mindset (stop making excuses for only having weekly streams on Twitch and weekly uploads on Youtube and get a Patreon) and still insist on having operating costs as though you have a parent company bankrolling every extravagance then you won't survive.
I probably don't represent the majority, but I have found that as time goes on I visit fewer and fewer gaming-related sites. If anything, I have sites I intentionally avoid as opposed to sites I intentionally visit. Outside of really enjoying the personalities or unique content of a site/person, there is little reason for anyone to visit a gaming site anymore. They all have the same "news" with the same trailer and the same screenshots. It seems pretty clear that some of the biggest successes lately have been built on unique personalities and/or unique delivery of content. I suppose I just don't see a problem that this site is meant to solve.
This point was never clearly communicated in the few times this website has been brought up. The only time I hear about it is on Pachter's show (which I just watch through YouTube) and the impression I always had was that I would have to pay for it.
I do get a similar vibe here as when I watch someone on Shark Tank try to sell the investors on a idea that the creator loves, but nobody else seems terribly interested in. Then after they make no deal and get told to listen to what the market is telling them, they just double-down and throw more money at it. Hopefully there's still time to make the necessary changes to avoid that. There already appears to be some pretty consistent feedback that might be worth paying attention to.
But he's right. People have given plenty of good advice in this thread and it's just being ignored wholesale.
Similar threads
- Poll