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NBA 2016-2017 Season |OT| What do the Liberty Bell and Ben Simmons have in Common?

B

Bread

Banned
jbug617 said:
I would be more willing to include the 17' Brooklyn pick in a deal for Butler over George. George scares me that he will be a rental. Butler has years on his contract.

I wonder if the hang up is Jaylen Brown.
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Yeah that's definitely the reason Danny wasn't quick to offer the Brooklyn pick. I bet this is a ploy to get the bulls back to the table.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Lionel Richie said:
Don't know man, IT is a not a great defender but his offense is unbelievable. PG might be better than him, but it's not like he's clearly better. It's at least very close.
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PG has proven his worth in the playoffs against LeBron. IT?

spyder_ur said:
Not buying that. Like Cousins, he doesn't want to willingly give away the chance at that $200M supermax, understandably. I don't know why he would want to go play for that Lakers team at that point of his career for significantly less money.
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George has to make All NBA this year or next to be eligible for the super max.
 
N

NHale

Member
jbug617 said:
Dallas pick is protected from 1-18
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That means Dallas keep their pick this year. I wonder what protections are there in 2018 though. Don't tell me the tradeoff is that the pick in unprotected next year.

Still I like the move for the Mavs now that we know that they keep their pick this year.
 
Lionel Richie

Lionel Richie

Member
Gigglepoo said:
PG has proven his worth in the playoffs against LeBron. IT?
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Not yet, but give him time. IT is averaging 30 points per game shooting respectably and turning the ball over very rarely. Playing alongside Amir and Al's rotting corpses no less.

That's kind of besides the point though. Let's just put both on the same team let's beat the shit out of Lebron.
 
S

seattle6418

Member
serenewarfare said:
The odds that that pick (if it even is #1, which is only a 25% chance at best) ever turns into a player that can give you the same value as one year of Paul George is incredibly low.

At some point people have to stop fantasizing about draft picks assuming they all turn into superstars and realize the value of actual, legitimate proven superstars.
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So much true.

This drives me nuts everytime. Like, Lou Williams for a second round pick? What are the odds that this pick is, after two or three years, better than Lou?

Shit teams keep trading away good players hoping for the next Jordan in the draft and it´s the same thing over and over.

Look at the 76ers, five or six years tanking and they only have Embiid to show for, the rest of the team in complete trash. (not judging Simmons because he is yet to play).

Most of this trades are dumb, proven players for picks is usually a bad idea.
 
B

Bread

Banned
Roland_Gunner said:
You watch the Celts more than me but you can't play Olynyk and Bogut together. Horford is slowing down some so I don't know how he and Bogut would work together either.
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They've been playing Horford and Amir together to start games and Amir is typically covering the C.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Ninja Scooter said:
I think some people hear "number 1 pick" and assume it's going to be a super star, when in reality the odds of getting a franchise superstar with a number 1 overall pick are fairly minuscule.
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Minuscule? Nah.

Let's go back 20 years.

The busts:

Olowakandi, Kwame, Oden, Bennett

Mediocre to good players, but not superstars:

Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, Barganani, Bogut

Superstars:

Iverson, Duncan, Yao, LeBron, Howard, Rose, Griffin, Irving, Anthony Davis.

Too early to tell quite yet:

Wall, Wiggins, KAT.. and you have Simmons who hasn't had a chance yet.

That's basically a 50% Super Star ratio for #1's.. that's 16 out of 20 that were at least
quality players... it's debatable calling Barg or Bogut a bust.. they've been solid if not spectacular players.

Still.. a 50/50 chance at an all-star, and a 80% success rate on good players. I mean.. those are great odds.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
NervousXtian said:
Minuscule? Nah.

Let's go back 20 years.

The busts:

Olowakandi, Kwame, Oden, Bennett

Mediocre to good players, but not superstars:

Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, Barganani, Bogut

Superstars:

Iverson, Duncan, Yao, LeBron, Howard, Rose, Griffin, Irving, Anthony Davis.

Too early to tell quite yet:

Wall, Wiggins, KAT.. and you have Simmons who hasn't had a chance yet.

That's basically a 50% Super Star ratio for #1's.. that's 16 out of 20 that were at least
quality players... it's debatable calling Barg or Bogut a bust.. they've been solid if not spectacular players.

Still.. a 50/50 chance at an all-star, and a 80% success rate on good players. I mean.. those are great odds.
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Franchise Superstars out of those who didn't get injured are Iverson, Duncan, LeBron and Davis. Yao, Howard, and Rose got injured - Griffin and Irving are at best the 2nd best player on a championship team. Add in that they have a 25% chance of getting the first pick, and it does become dicey.

I wonder if you wait till the draft, and if you get the #1 pick - you offer IT, Crowder, and the Brooklyn pick next year for Butler, and then draft Ball / Fultz this year to replace IT.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
NervousXtian said:
Minuscule? Nah.

Let's go back 20 years.

The busts:

Olowakandi, Kwame, Oden, Bennett

Mediocre to good players, but not superstars:

Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, Barganani, Bogut

Superstars:

Iverson, Duncan, Yao, LeBron, Howard, Rose, Griffin, Irving, Anthony Davis.

Too early to tell quite yet:

Wall, Wiggins, KAT.. and you have Simmons who hasn't had a chance yet.

That's basically a 50% Super Star ratio for #1's.. that's 16 out of 20 that were at least
quality players... it's debatable calling Barg or Bogut a bust.. they've been solid if not spectacular players.

Still.. a 50/50 chance at an all-star, and a 80% success rate on good players. I mean.. those are great odds.
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Historically, the odds of #1 being a "star" player are around 70%, but those odds drop very fast as you go down (down to 60% for #2 for example).

But even then, you can't say 16 out of 20 in this discussion, because a "quality player" is not a superstar and that is the root of this discussion. At best you can say 9 given your list.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Just not sure if the Celtics are better off going all out with the IT era, or waiting it out Lebron like the Sixers.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Chris Forberg:

As practice opens, no Avery Bradley or Gerald Green on floor for Celtics.
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Avery's still not practicing much, but hmm...

serenewarfare said:
Historically, the odds of #1 being a "star" player are around 70%, but those odds drop very fast as you go down (down to 60% for #2 for example).

But even then, you can't say 16 out of 20 in this discussion, because a "quality player" is not a superstar and that is the root of this discussion. At best you can say 9 given your list.
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I think the reaction was saying there is a 'miniscule' chance. Early draft picks are still the best root to sustained franchise success.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
spyder_ur said:
I think the reaction was saying there is a 'miniscule' chance. Early draft picks are still the best root to sustained franchise success.
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Sure, you'd rather have a #1 pick than say 8 or 10, but I'd much rather have a guy I know is elite right now instead of something that might work out.
 
A

ACE 1991

Member
seattle6418 said:
So much true.

This drives me nuts everytime. Like, Lou Williams for a second round pick? What are the odds that this pick is, after two or three years, better than Lou?

Shit teams keep trading away good players hoping for the next Jordan in the draft and it´s the same thing over and over.

Look at the 76ers, five or six years tanking and they only have Embiid to show for, the rest of the team in complete trash. (not judging Simmons because he is yet to play).

Most of this trades are dumb, proven players for picks is usually a bad idea.
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Lmao. Sorry dude, but you're wrong.
 
A

ACE 1991

Member
Frozenprince said:
Colangelo fucking up all the work Hinkie did to save that franchise in under 6 months.

Well done.
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Eh, I don't like the trade but this is pretty hyperbolic. Neither Jah nor Noel were ever really going to work with Embiid. However, I would much prefer to have Noel as a backup than Jah. We'd have to eventually play him a bunch of money to pay ~15 minutes a game, though. Neither of these two bigs are big pieces nor key to the Sixers long-term success.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
ACE 1991 said:
Eh, I don't like the trade but this is pretty hyperbolic. Neither Jah nor Noel were ever really going to work with Embiid. However, I would much prefer to have Noel as a backup than Jah. We'd have to eventually play him a bunch of money to pay ~15 minutes a game, though. Neither of these two bigs are big pieces nor key to the Sixers long-term success.
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Noel is a top 10 defensive big and potential 6th man, I take that value and keep it rather than dump for a junk pick that won't get me a player back of his caliber in the first place. No reason to trade him for essentially nothing.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
serenewarfare said:
Historically, the odds of #1 being a "star" player are around 70%, but those odds drop very fast as you go down (down to 60% for #2 for example).

But even then, you can't say 16 out of 20 in this discussion, because a "quality player" is not a superstar and that is the root of this discussion. At best you can say 9 given your list.
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Which is why I said 9.. .and why I said 16 were at least solid.

Those are not minuscule chances.

History shows, #1 picks work out at a pretty damn good rate. Recent big time busts in the Twitter world make it seem riskier than it is.. Oden and Bennett were huge busts. Kwame got a lot of press and was a huge bust... but overall.. they typically work out really well.

...and Oden more than likely would have been at least very good if his knees didn't suck. Yao was great until he broken down.

Bennett was a WTF pick when it took place. So was Kwame.
 
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