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South Park's out. Is the fish minigame handled well? Should it be in the game?

S

sjay1994

Member
VGdrumCovers said:
social commentary and well done imo
Click to expand...

You also make a lot less money.

Honestly the difficulty associated with skin tone works and makes sense. I was kinda baffled people in the OT were dissapointed combat difficulty wasn't tied to skin tone.

I don't think people perform better in combat and do more damage to you because you are black. (Even though I am playing the game on the hardest combat difficulty too)

What was done in the game is a pretty smart way to tackle the issue.
 
M

Marcel

Member
Village said:
That hasn't stopped you from trying
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I'm not the one going into the conversations with absolutes, false moral superiority and actually shutting down conversation that you don't like. You're free to act with faux-outrage as much as you want, I can't actually stop your bad faith arguments.
 
V

Village

Member
fanboi said:
Well I see you point but they treat everyone equally in the sense that everything is OK to joke about.

If it is OK or not... well isn't South Parks jokes more to put light on issues? Like if you play harder difficulties you are more brown/black skinned.
Click to expand...


That doesn't make bad black face jokes ok. Just because you make a joke about black black people having it rough, it doesn't excuse shitter black jokes. I'm black, I know I have it rough, I have heard jokes for decades by people who look like me and don't look like me about how my life is rough. How does that excuse black face, making fun of a woman who has little to no context to the person they are supposedly making fun of?

fanboi said:
And if it is a blackface or not... not sure.
Click to expand...

It is

Marcel said:
I'm not the one going into the conversations with absolutes, false moral superiority and actually shutting down conversation that you don't like. You're free to act with faux-outrage as much as you want.
Click to expand...

Who said i'm feeling morally superior?

I'm black and i'm not fond of this, and want to talk about it. I want to talk about the joke structure of this game and south park in general and how building up a "social cache " of jokes that aren't offensive to a group of people doesn't excuse you when you actually make one that is. And all you have been doing is trying to shut down conversation. Do you have actually have a point or are you going tell me how my outrage is fake as a black person

No please explain to me how my disdain for black face as a black person is fake

Go on
explain it, break it down for me
 
W

WhiskeyKnight

Member
It seems like we've forgotten, as a society, that comedians are SUPPOSED to push the boundaries of what's acceptable. It's why we like them. Sometimes they're going to accidentally cross the line, because it's not immediately obvious where the line is. It's the job of the comedian to go right up to the line, and show everyone else where it is. The problem I have with political correctness applied in the comedy context is that it doesn't allow comedians to perform this crucially important societal function. If every joke was perfectly safe and offended no one -- well that sounds like the death of comedy to me. South Park has been doing this for nearly 20 years. They used to mainly piss off the right and now they mainly piss off the left. So if you think they went too far with the dumb fish thing, by all means, call them out. But just know it's not Matt and Trey's job to be woke, it's their job to be funny. And that means taking risks.
 
M

Mendrox

Member
Village said:
That doesn't make bad black face jokes ok. Just because you make a joke about black black people having it rough, it doesn't excuse shitter black jokes. I'm black, I know I have it rough, I have heard jokes for decades by people who look like me and don't look like me about how my life is rough. How does that excuse black face, making fun of a woman who has little to no context to the person they are supposedly making fun of?



It is
Click to expand...

I understand your point to a certain degree, but if we stop things like these in South Park, then we would have to stop everything that show is about.

Making jokes about anyone.

I mean don't you think homosexuals, gingers, jews, actors like Morgan Freeman are offended too? South Park would cease to exist and this whole thing about being neutral and open towards anything is what South Park is about.
 
D

Drillary Clinton

Banned
The thing about that joke is it’s being offensive just to be offensive. There’s no satire. They aren’t even attempting to subvert blackface/mammy tropes. It’s just plain racist. Couple that with the fact that it’s beating a dead horse of a joke about Kanye and then they take it a step further by making fun of his dead mother. Wow so edgy.

I get that these games are all about fan service but holy fuck.
 
V

Village

Member
WhiskeyKnight said:
It seems like we've forgotten, as a society, that comedians are SUPPOSED to push the boundaries of what's acceptable.
Click to expand...


A commedians job is to be funny and tell jokes, they can do what you said, but its to be funny and tell good jokes. A comedian doesn't have to be good, and not every joke, is funny. And when a joke trying to what you said isn't funny and is supposed to be " pushing boundaries" then that warrants discussion. But also its just a shitty joke.

Stop blaming "political correctness" for people telling shitty jokes. Do you think south park of all things is peoples foray into " racy" humor? No, they problably have seen the boondocks, or just comedians in general , people are calling out the shitty joke because its shitty
 
M

Marcel

Member
Village said:
That doesn't make bad black face jokes ok. Just because you make a joke about black black people having it rough, it doesn't excuse shitter black jokes. I'm black, I know I have it rough, I have heard jokes for decades by people who look like me and don't look like me about how my life is rough. How does that excuse black face, making fun of a woman who has little to no context to the person they are supposedly making fun of?



It is



Who said i'm feeling morally superior?

I'm black and i'm not fond of this, and want to talk about it. I want to talk about the joke structure of this game and south park in general and how building up a "social cache " of jokes that aren't offensive to a group of people doesn't excuse you when you actually make one that is. And all you have been doing is trying to shut down conversation. Do you have actually have a point or are you going tell me how my outrage is fake as a black person

No please explain to me how my disdain for black face as a black person is fake

Go on
explain it, break it down for me
Click to expand...

South Park has taken plenty of potshots at gay folx which I am. I could come in here with a head of steam like you or I could just understand this is their schtick and me getting mad doesn't actually do anything other than make me feel like shit. The show will exist for the foreseeable future whether I like it or not since it's a still a big draw on Comedy Central.
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
It's a South Park game, I'm going in expecting everything to be over the top and highly offensive and inappropriate. I can't wait to start it after I finish The Evil Within 2.
 
A

arab

Member
WhiskeyKnight said:
It seems like we've forgotten, as a society, that comedians are SUPPOSED to push the boundaries of what's acceptable. It's why we like them. Sometimes they're going to accidentally cross the line, because it's not immediately obvious where the line is. It's the job of the comedian to go right up to the line, and show everyone else where it is. The problem I have with political correctness applied in the comedy context is that it doesn't allow comedians to perform this crucially important societal function. If every joke was perfectly safe and offended no one -- well that sounds like the death of comedy to me. South Park has been doing this for nearly 20 years. They used to mainly piss off the right and now they mainly piss off the left. So if you think they went too far with the dumb fish thing, by all means, call them out. But just know it's not Matt and Trey's job to be woke, it's their job to be funny. And that means taking risks.
Click to expand...

haha black face fish is so funny!!!!!!!!! the roarin twenties will never die!!!!!!
 
A

Atuin

Member
Not sure if I understood OP, but I don't think anyone's offended by selfie-taking Jesus being associated with a farting unicorn and pagan myth of Valhalla since Jesus is the good guy. Besides, even if Christianity was mocked here "racism" wouldn't be the word for it.
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
WhiskeyKnight said:
But just know it's not Matt and Trey's job to be woke, it's their job to be funny. And that means taking risks.
Click to expand...

Ve9Y3.gif


Saying these edgelords job is to be woke made me cringe real hard.
 
V

Village

Member
Mendrox said:
I understand your point to a certain degree, but if we stop things like these in South Park, then we would have to stop everything that show is about.
Click to expand...
Not for me

My favorite south park stuff is them going on silly adventures and its more commentary and parodying media , which happens a lot in this game and is funny , rather than trying to make social and political commentary. Not because its bad, I love social and political commentary in my games, its because south park is notoriously bad at it. Described by austin walker as " luke warm centrist political takes " they never really talk about anything any interesting stance taken is quickly cowarded out for the sake of luke warm " both sides are right " type comedy. Does that make every episode they have done about social poltical subject matter bad? No, but a lot of them are, and they aren't really good at it.
South Park to me is a bunch of kids as stand ins for Matt and Trey's critcisms about media


Mendrox said:
I mean don't you think homosexuals, gingers, jews, actors like Morgan Freeman are offended too? South Park would cease to exist and this whole thing about being neutral and open towards anything is what South Park is about.
Click to expand...
Maybe
but what does them being offended have anything to do with me?
 
D

Drillary Clinton

Banned
Marcel said:
South Park has taken plenty of potshots at gay folx which I am. I could come in here with a head of steam like you or I could just understand this is their schtick and me getting mad doesn't actually do anything other than make me feel like shit. The show will exist for the foreseeable future whether I like it or not since it's a still a big draw on Comedy Central.
Click to expand...

I haven’t watched South Park in a long time but when I did the jokes about gay people seemed to make fun of the perceptions of gay people more so than gay people themselves.
 
G

GodofWine

Member
I don't think that's 'Black Face", its a Black (like African American Black) fish, female, wearing lip stick and earings. The entire fish is dark dark brown, if the head was only, then OK. The overall features of this fish in question look pretty much like any cartoon fish ever too.

Not sure how else once would illustrate a Black female fish. Go ahead, draw me a fish that is supposed to represent a white person, one for a black person, and one for a Irish person - you'll have to make their skin tone a certain way

In the scope of cultural issues, this isn't on the radar I'd say - only people looking for a fight would find this..

Perhaps OP is russian and trying to stir up shit here. (sarcasm I think)
 
D

Drillary Clinton

Banned
GodofWine said:
I don't think that's 'Black Face", its a Black fish, female, wearing lip stick and earings. The entire fish is dark dark brown, if the head was only, then OK.

Not sure how else once would illustrate a Black female fish.

In the scope of cultural issues, this isn't on the radar I'd say - only people looking for a fight would find this..

Perhaps OP is russian and trying to stir up shit here. (sarcasm I think)
Click to expand...

So Kanye is a blue/green fish but his mother just so happens to be pitch black with huge red lips. What a coincidence.
 
F

fanboi

Banned
Village said:
That doesn't make bad black face jokes ok. Just because you make a joke about black black people having it rough, it doesn't excuse shitter black jokes. I'm black, I know I have it rough, I have heard jokes for decades by people who look like me and don't look like me about how my life is rough. How does that excuse black face, making fun of a woman who has little to no context to the person they are supposedly making fun of?



It is



Who said i'm feeling morally superior?

I'm black and i'm not fond of this, and want to talk about it. I want to talk about the joke structure of this game and south park in general and how building up a "social cache " of jokes that aren't offensive to a group of people doesn't excuse you when you actually make one that is. And all you have been doing is trying to shut down conversation. Do you have actually have a point or are you going tell me how my outrage is fake as a black person

No please explain to me how my disdain for black face as a black person is fake

Go on
explain it, break it down for me
Click to expand...

I agree that making bad black jokes are not OK, but if you put this into context who are making this joke, it would be easier to swallow? As people have pointed out, they make jokes about everyone, asian stereo types, gay people, fucking subway using a sub as penis and strikes a girl in the face and afterwards something that look like seaman in her face while being dead, religion, rednecks etc etc.

I don't watch the show anymore due to all this, but if anyone have a more leway in using it it would be South Park, since what I know, they usually do good stuff for these groups they make fun of, or am I wrong?

But I am not the one to tell what is right or wrong in this case I feel, since I am a white priveledged man that doesn't fall in either categories they make fun of.
 
V

Village

Member
Marcel said:
South Park has taken plenty of potshots at gay folx which I am. I could come in here with a head of steam like you or I could just understand this is their schtick and me getting mad doesn't actually do anything other than make me feel like shit. The show will exist for the foreseeable future whether I like it or not since it's a still a big draw on Comedy Central.
Click to expand...

If you don't get offended at some shit, what the fuck does that have to do with me? Also what the fuck does that have to do with other LGBTQ people who do get offended by some of the shit on south park?

You aren't a spokesman for gay people, i'm not a spokesman for black people. So I opted to speak for myself,

Along with, you aren't even pointed out, what joke? The joke we are talking about is the joke is " hey this looks like black face, isn't black face funny " ? Which is a fucked up " joke" you havent even given another joke as a comparison point
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Ah yes, the mammy fish

GodofWine said:
I don't think that's 'Black Face", its a Black fish, female, wearing lip stick and earings. The entire fish is dark dark brown, if the head was only, then OK.

Not sure how else once would illustrate a Black female fish.

In the scope of cultural issues, this isn't on the radar I'd say - only people looking for a fight would find this..

Perhaps OP is russian and trying to stir up shit here. (sarcasm I think)
Click to expand...

The fish that represents Kanye is like green tho, so.... What now
 
N

neptunes

Member
Sometimes bad jokes don't really hit and fall flat. Is it be wrong to acknowledge that a joke doesn't work? I guess artists are allowed to work with impunity
 
S

snausagesUK

Member
The blackface thing is reaching a little bit I feel. I get where people are coming from but it feels like more of an unfortunate coincidence of how a fish's lips would look compared with classic racist caricatures which include similar looking big lips. You could probably argue that they should have thought of that imagery a bit more when making the mom-fish image maybe.

It's mean spirited though because it's making light of a woman who died a very sad and meaningless death. But so also did Steve Irwin and they were quick off the mark showing him impaled with a sting-ray in hell.

I guess my point is that it's not really beyond the pale compared with what South Park usually stoops to.
 
B

BTA

Member
Mendrox said:
Wat?

It's a mini game with a fish looking like blackface and it's suppose to be Kanyes mum. It's a bit shitty, but I never expected them to not do something like this in any way. There are also many of these cases in this game. Play a black guy and you get rude comments most of the time. Or you choose to be neither girl or boy and Rednecks want to immediately fuck you up. Se(a)men is still funny.



And it's obviously South Park where:

- Ginger kids are hated
- Zombie Nazis were on the streets
- where two kids were forced to be gay
- where a small kid got killed in many horrible ways because he is poor
- Jews are insulted all the time

Blackface is horrible, but is it really such a big new thing for South Park?

Whole thing should be added here too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_controversies#Criticism_and_protests
Click to expand...

I’ll never understand this argument; “They made bad jokes before so they should keep making bad jokes without criticism now” doesn’t make any sense.

Rather, for example: if you opened some random Steam game and found that “Jew” was a character class, it’d probably be kind of offputting at the very least, right? Yet South Park gets a pass because... they’ve made antisemitic jokes before?

WhiskeyKnight said:
It seems like we've forgotten, as a society, that comedians are SUPPOSED to push the boundaries of what's acceptable. It's why we like them. Sometimes they're going to accidentally cross the line, because it's not immediately obvious where the line is. It's the job of the comedian to go right up to the line, and show everyone else where it is. The problem I have with political correctness applied in the comedy context is that it doesn't allow comedians to perform this crucially important societal function. If every joke was perfectly safe and offended no one -- well that sounds like the death of comedy to me. South Park has been doing this for nearly 20 years. They used to mainly piss off the right and now they mainly piss off the left. So if you think they went too far with the dumb fish thing, by all means, call them out. But just know it's not Matt and Trey's job to be woke, it's their job to be funny. And that means taking risks.
Click to expand...

I have two thoughts here.

1. It’s not taking risks or pushing boundaries when you’re throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks. There is absolutely nothing admirable about joking about everything, no matter how much you punch down in the process, because in theory someone might laugh at something eventually and I guess any laugh at all makes all the shit you said worth it no matter who’s laughing. Making jokes is no excuse for causing harm for the sake of a laugh. Their job isn’t necessarily to be woke but it is to actually write well with worthwhile targets in mind.

(And nothing you’re describing here is actually why I like comedy or comedians, so you’re really ascribing a lot of your personal taste to that as a whole, but whatever.)

2. They’re not pushing boundaries when they “piss off the left”. Transphobic, racist, antisemitic, sexist, etc. jokes are really pushing boundaries? What fucking boundaries? Oh sure, someone might tell you off for saying those things, boo hoo, but meanwhile trans women regularly get killed just for being trans- especially if they’re not white. You’ve surely seen the way cops in this country treat people of color. The list goes on.

I mean, we literally have Nazis rallying in the streets so excuse me if I do not think there’s anything fucking new or progressive or worth the “risk” here. If you’re arguing for the status quo or worse there’s literally not a boundary being pushed beyond not wanting to be decent to people who actually deserve it! It’s that simple.

Mendrox said:
I understand your point to a certain degree, but if we stop things like these in South Park, then we would have to stop everything that show is about.

Making jokes about anyone.

I mean don't you think homosexuals, gingers, jews, actors like Morgan Freeman are offended too? South Park would cease to exist and this whole thing about being neutral and open towards anything is what South Park is about.
Click to expand...

It’s not neutral and open towards anything.

It’s hostile and apathetic to everything. Which is not the same thing, nor is it good.
 
Revolutionary

Revolutionary

Member
When will you admit that it's not about the "blackface" (it's a goddamn fish) but rather the fact that they made fun of your favorite rapper? The previous thread proved it through and through with all the ignorant "I can't believe they're making fun of his dead mom" responses. No, they're making fun of the game he wanted to make about her.
 
V

Village

Member
fanboi said:
I agree that making bad black jokes are not OK, but if you put this into context who are making this joke, it would be easier to swallow? As people have pointed out, they make jokes about everyone, asian stereo types, gay people, fucking subway using a sub as penis and strikes a girl in the face and afterwards something that look like seaman in her face while being dead, religion, rednecks etc etc.
Click to expand...

Making jokes about everyone doesn't excuse shitty and bad jokes. Tell better jokes.

I don't watch the show anymore due to all this, but if anyone have a more leway in using it it would be South Park, since what I know, they usually do good stuff for these groups they make fun of, or am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Telling a joke that's actually good, doesn't excuse telling a shitty joke.


But I am not the one to tell what is right or wrong in this case I feel, since I am a white priveledged man that doesn't fall in either categories they make fun of.
Click to expand...

Its nice that you acknowledge that, that isn't sarcasm, that's good.

But let me peep you to the concept of social cache, the idea that because you have done a good thing it allows you to do a bad thing. There's a podcast called revisionist history that goes more indepth on the subject, I forget what episode it is , but I would just ask you to listen to it anyway its a good podcast.

but my point is, people believe if they do a good thing, they can do a bad thing. And that's kind of what south park's humor itself believes. I championed this, so now I will shit on this. And with concepts it works, but with groups of people it doesn't. Because people don't work like concepts, people have feelings and experiences and to them you telling one joke doesn't excuse everything else, because the hardships those people experience is their every day.
 
A

Anoxida

Member
Village said:
Who gives a shit if its new
Its fucked up and its worth talking about



Who said I have selected memory

How about this is also worth talking about, and all you have been doing is trying to shut down conversation for no reason
Click to expand...

It sounds like you want everyone to agree with you and screw anyone else who don't. You're the one telling people to fuck off etc when they try to give their personal input. There's no conversation with you. Ok. You're offended. Understandable. Perhaps do something constructive and send a mail or w/e to trey and matt or someone at comedy central and explain why instead or acting like a child.
 
H

hampig

Member
Isn't blackface when a person of a different race puts on makeup to look/imitate being black? This fish represents a black woman.

Somebody explain how this is offensive because maybe I missed it having not played the game. Do they present her being black as a joke somehow?
 
M

Mendrox

Member
BTA said:
Wall of text which I read
Click to expand...

I can see these points, but these are the same points which were discussed and in controvery over 10 years ago too. South Park won't change because of that. South Park makes fun of everything and that won't change.

hampig said:
Isn't blackface when a person of a different race puts on makeup to look/imitate being black? This fish represents a black woman.

Somebody explain how this is offensive because maybe I missed it having not played the game. Do they present her being black as a joke somehow?
Click to expand...

Kanye himself is a green fish. His mom is obviously blackface (black, big lips, red lipstick) and also she is dead in real life. The whole joke is how absurd the whole thing is and well Se(a)m(a)n himself is a joke too. There would be no outrage if she would be green too and not like the typical blackface cartoon character from the 80s/90s.
 
V

Village

Member
Revolutionary said:
When will you admit that it's not about the "blackface" (it's a goddamn fish) but rather the fact that they made fun of your favorite rapper? The previous thread proved it through and through with all the ignorant "I can't believe they're making fun of his dead mom" responses. No, they're making fun of the game he wanted to make about her.
Click to expand...

Kanye isn't my favorite rapper, I don't think South Park is making MF DOOM jokes, or GFK jokes, or Andre 3000 jokes anytime soon

Also why whats funny about a guy who seems to have had some serious mental deterioration since the death of his mother... dedicating something to his mother? Like how is that a joke? What's the humor there
 
D

Drillary Clinton

Banned
hampig said:
Isn't blackface when a person of a different race puts on makeup to look/imitate being black? This fish represents a black woman.

Somebody explain how this is offensive because maybe I missed it having not played the game. Do they present her being black as a joke somehow?
Click to expand...

No it doesn’t necessarily have to be someone of a different race, that was just the predominant use. There were African-American actors and performers who wore their own Blackface. It is a trope.
 
F

fanboi

Banned
Village said:
Making jokes about everyone doesn't excuse shitty and bad jokes. Tell better jokes.


Telling a joke that's actually good, doesn't excuse telling a shitty joke.




Its nice that you acknowledge that, that isn't sarcasm, that's good.

But let me peep you to the concept of social cache, the idea that because you have done a good thing it allows you to do a bad thing. There's a podcast called revisionist history that goes more indepth on the subject, I forget what episode it is , but I would just ask you to listen to it anyway its a good podcast.

but my point is, people believe if they do a good thing, they can do a bad thing. And that's kind of what south park's humor itself believes. I championed this, so now I will shit on this. And with concepts it works, but with groups of people it doesn't. Because people don't work like concepts, people have feelings and experiences and to them you telling one joke doesn't excuse everything else, because the hardships those people experience is their every day.
Click to expand...

Regarding the last paragraph, while I see your point, they make money due to this and hence can use that money to help discriminated groups (but this is what I have heard that they do, but if they just do it for the money and don't contribute back well fuck of then).
 
Ooccoo

Ooccoo

Member
It's a sidequest. Honestly I thought it was funny and most people won't understand it's a joke about Kanye's attempt at a videogame.
 
V

Village

Member
Anoxida said:
It sounds like you want everyone to agree with you and screw anyone else who don't. You're the one telling people to fuck off etc when they try to give their personal input. There's no conversation with you. Ok. You're offended. Understandable.
Click to expand...
I've been having a discussion with someone for the last page about this subject
So what

Anoxida said:
Perhaps do something constructive and send a mail or w/e to trey and matt or someone at comedy central and explain why instead or acting like a child.
Click to expand...

This is a forum for discussing video games, I can discuss this joke in a video game.

what is your point here?

You are upset i'm offended about something?
 
C

CannonFodder52

Member
hampig said:
Isn't blackface when a person of a different race puts on makeup to look/imitate being black? This fish represents a black woman.

Somebody explain how this is offensive because maybe I missed it having not played the game. Do they present her being black as a joke somehow?
Click to expand...

They're using mammy imagery. Most posters don't seem to know what that is, so people are saying black face instead as it's pretty similar.

Of all the ways to make fun of Kanye, to jeer at his dead mom and dress her up as an incredibly racist caricature...

Donda West was just a school teacher, she's not a celebrity. This all seems pretty vile

mask.jpg
 
V

Village

Member
Ooccoo said:
It's a sidequest. Honestly I thought it was funny and most people won't understand it's a joke about Kanye's attempt at a videogame.
Click to expand...

One, what's funny about a guy dedicating a video game to his dead mother.

two, what does that have to do with black face?
 
D

Drillary Clinton

Banned
Algebrah said:
Do I think it was intentional? No. Does it look bad? Yes.
Click to expand...

Even if that is the case, unintentional racism is still racism.


Charlie0108 said:
I wonder what the reaction would be like if it was the other way round and Kanye wrote a comedy rap which mocked someone's dead mother using racial stereotypes. I'm sure the same people would 100% be calling it hilarious and saying it's just comedy.
Click to expand...


Lmao what the hell?
 
C

Charlie0108

Member
I wonder what the reaction would be like if it was the other way round and Kanye wrote a comedy rap which mocked someone's dead mother using racial stereotypes. I'm sure the same people would 100% be calling it hilarious and saying it's just comedy.
 
D

DrZeus

Member
Joke was in very poor taste from a racial dynamic as well making fun of his dead mother. Turned me off of the game and south park in general honestly. I'd been a fan off and on since the shows inception 20 ish years ago.
 
H

hampig

Member
Drillary Clinton said:
No it doesn’t necessarily have to be someone of a different race, that was just the predominant use. There were African-American actors and performers who wore their own Blackface. It is a trope.
Click to expand...

Alright, I guess that's what I was missing. It's the use of makeup to exaggerate stereotypical features for comedic value then. I can sort of see where people are coming from then.

Does anyone have a picture of Kanye's fish for comparison?
 
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