Complicated
Banned
I was referring to Bungie lying and obfuscating about the size of the game prior to release. Doesn't really have anything to do with my opinion of the game.
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To the "Destiny 2 looks like DLC" crowd. Why?
- Thread starter StalkerUKCG
- Start date
I was referring to Bungie lying and obfuscating about the size of the game prior to release. Doesn't really have anything to do with my opinion of the game.
I absolutely adored Destiny 1 once TTK came out. As a player since the beta, the only time I've been disappointed was actually upon original Vanilla release. I understand why others would be disappointed in the D2 reveal, but for me it was EXACTLY what I wanted - even down to the Bnet announcement.
To be more specific, my thoughts really echo a lot of the positive thoughts that others have posted here. I personally really wanted a continuation of Rise of Iron, with more emphasis on events. I was worried there would be some drastic changes, but the only "drastic ones" I noticed (4v4 PVP, heavy ammo only going to one Guardian and not all around it, sniper moving to heavy weapon) really, to me, bring the game back to what initially made me fall in love with Bungie - Halo multiplayer.
That is the entire reason I started playing Destiny - Halo. My late brother and I bonded strongly over Halo, and my surviving brother and I bonded strongly over Destiny.
So to me, it means just a little more than just a video game.
To be more specific, my thoughts really echo a lot of the positive thoughts that others have posted here. I personally really wanted a continuation of Rise of Iron, with more emphasis on events. I was worried there would be some drastic changes, but the only "drastic ones" I noticed (4v4 PVP, heavy ammo only going to one Guardian and not all around it, sniper moving to heavy weapon) really, to me, bring the game back to what initially made me fall in love with Bungie - Halo multiplayer.
That is the entire reason I started playing Destiny - Halo. My late brother and I bonded strongly over Halo, and my surviving brother and I bonded strongly over Destiny.
So to me, it means just a little more than just a video game.
molnizzle
Member
Except at some point there will be a WoW 2 that's a complete paradigm shift away from the first game. It'll be a hard reset that essentially reboots the entire franchise.
...which is what people expected Destiny 2 to be. Because they called it Destiny 2 and made it a totally new game.
Whether you like it or not, the first game was not received well. It had a lot of problems. Most people didn't stick around to see some of those problems fixed, and they shouldn't have been expected to.
D2 doesn't look like the sequel those people were hoping for. It looks like an expansion to the first game for players who already enjoyed that.
Anton Sugar
Member
I would really have loved for Bungie to actually make good on the idea that the Fallen are agile, creepy ass fuckers who can crawl on ceilings and walls.
We only ever saw that in the introductory missions of Destiny 1, then it was abandoned COMPLETELY. Fallen became four-armed human soldiers, basically.
We only ever saw that in the introductory missions of Destiny 1, then it was abandoned COMPLETELY. Fallen became four-armed human soldiers, basically.
In general, it might not always be appropriate. That said, D1 was the result of an absolute trainwreck of a development process that resulted in the game being put together kind of last minute. D2 has had years in the oven with little reports of turbulence, beyond the delay, and the experience of D1 yet the result looks similar.
Like, if you're baking a cake and absolutely flub the recipe, resulting in a particular cake then make a second cake with the recipe being followed perfectly, I don't expect the second cake to be that similar to the first.
Now, if D3 looks like D2, people have no grounds to complain because it's clear the this is what Destiny is and it's not seeing huge changes.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I would agree but Destiny keeps trying to be one.
Lockouts? Check.
Raids? Check.
Endgame where new activities open up? Check.
Separate pvp mode? Check.
Dungeons? Check.
Hard modes of dungeons? Check.
Play areas where you can run into others? Check.
Levelling system? Check.
Endgame levelling system through gear levels? Check.
For all this "destiny isnt an mmo", Bungie sure keeps trying to make it one.
franklyshankly
Member
Totally off topic, but I really don't think there will be. Blizzard scrapped their future MMO project "Titan" and recycled that into Overwatch instead. I don't think there's a market for a new WoW these days.
RichiRamjag
Member
Yeah, that intro definitely left me annoyed in the early days as the game wasn't like that lol.
"Games as a service" is the big term here that seem to give people trouble here. Games work and update like WoW across all kind of genres, across all kind of platforms. The way of updating indefinitely isn't a MMO exclusice anymore. Hasn't been for a decade.
And Destiny placed itself into that kind of business model, even if it's not an MMO, hence a lot of irritation.
Reptars Revenge
Member
Lies. Nobody leaves the Nexus strike. It is the best.
molnizzle
Member
It might be 10+ years from now, but at some point they will. A property that valuable will get rebooted eventually.
I feel exactly the same way. Well said.
Aside from the slightly improved graphics (Destiny 1 had great graphics/art direction), the points you've composed all sound like stuff you'd see in DLC (kind of like the Taken King). A lot of these features that they touted were nice QOL stuff, but it's not sequel-brag worthy. Like, "oohhh, we don't have to go to orbit anymorreeee. Isn't this sequel greatttt???" That's what I felt like when I watched the stream.
I platinumed Destiny 1, and I've put in too many hours into the game so, coming from a guy who loved the game, this sequel didn't really impress me too much.
I don't think I was expecting more of what I've already liked about Destiny 1. Telling me that you've got a bunch of new weapons, strikes, and a raid is (duh) expected of Bungie. I was expecting some more information on stuff that I hadn't seen before in Destiny.
Off the top of my head
-Ships. Are they just loading screens again? The Destiny community has been clamoring since day 1 for things to do with your ship other than "equip" new ones to stare at.
-How are they changing exotics other than giving us new ones? Are they still just the carrot at the end of the stick that will keep players playing?
-How is the grind being addressed?
-Can I climb that mountain over there?
-How are sparrows different? Are they just used to get from one public event to the other?
Basically, everything I saw in the stream was nice...but it was expected. It doesn't seem like a full on sequel because it felt more like a progression of what Destiny 1 had established. Which would be fine if they didn't keep saying "We're starting over" "The Tower's gone" "blank slate yada yada"
Hope I made some sense
WITH ALL THIS SAID. I think as more information comes in, my questions may be answered, and I may be way off base because I don't have enough information.
RichiRamjag
Member
Lol. I've been abandoned at the intro more then a few times. I dislike the pace of vex strikes so much that I'm usually half-tempted to bounce myself.
molnizzle
Member
one of the few true statements in this thread tbh.
Kor of Memory
Member
Bungie's reused assests typicaly come in the form of AI pattern archetypes. I was very big on defending Bungie with the old Copy/Paste complaints during year 1, but there is one thing you can't really deny.
The Hive have 5 archetypes. As in 5 different AIs
Thralls
Knights
Acolytes
Wizards
Ogres
Sometimes Knights are given bigger helmets. Sometimes they have swords and sometimes mortars, sometimes they're brown, orange or blue. But the fact is they all have the same AI. They all feel like you're fighting the same enemy.
Valus Ta'aurac feels like you're fighting a colossal, because that's what he is. Undying Mind feels like you're fighting a hydra because that's what he is. Sepiks feels like you're fighting a servitor because that's what he is.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this either. But we've been fighting those enemies for 3 years now. People want to add a little flavor to their encounters. This is why people got so excited about Brute, and Buggers, and Skirmishers and Scarabs and Choppers. Because it creates new and interesting dynamics.
Showing me a minotaur with a different headdress on does nothing for me. I can appreciate that an artist did that, and I'm happy for him, but the truth is I've killed this enemy before, whether I've seen him or not.
oneils
Member
Probably not a market for a new wow, but I do feel like there is still an untapped market for pve players. Mine craft and wow are both huge, and if someone could figure out how to meld wow with mine craft, make it cheap, and make it have tons of content, with lots of vanity items, then people would flock to it.
I think it's a bit early to call it either way when it comes to Destiny 2. If we hit E3 and they're still showing the same level of things we saw in the first, that's when it's time to heavily criticize.
Maybe I'm a crazy person but I thought for sure we'd see space combat with our ships in Destiny 2. Am I alone in that?
Destiny 2 looks like the type of stuff you see in Reaper of Souls for Diablo 3 aka a big expansion but nothing fundamentally game changing.
I guess if Blizzard didn't market this as Destiny 2 then people would have had less complaints. If this was like "Destiny: Awakening", like a mega expansion/relaunch then people would've been fine with it even at $60 price tag.
In any case I have said more on the topic than I would care to... will definitely not be getting Destiny 2.
I guess if Blizzard didn't market this as Destiny 2 then people would have had less complaints. If this was like "Destiny: Awakening", like a mega expansion/relaunch then people would've been fine with it even at $60 price tag.
In any case I have said more on the topic than I would care to... will definitely not be getting Destiny 2.
The comparison to WoW always confused me. I'll get hate for this, but I'll say it anyways. Sure, WoW has more content, but it's a pure MMO. The graphics compared to Destiny are crap, the gameplay relies on pressing a button to perform a scripted attack in the general direction of a target rather than being able to interact with a specific facet of a target that is at the edge of the render range, there are editors to easily script a level with various NPCs doing things in a matter of hours, WoW can carry a campaign that has subpar gameplay because it has way more opportunities to deliver a story. It's a completely different game, It's like you're comparing a game like Super Mario Galaxy to Persona 5. One is better at delivering a story even though they both have one, each offers several environments with different mechanics, and comparing them directly is completely asinine.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Dunno mmo jargon what are lockouts?
Nm google is my buddy. Only ever did 3/4 of a raid
How D2 is destroying everything you earned? You can still play D1 if you want, they're not taking anything away from you.
My feelings exactly
molnizzle
Member
There are activities (in this case, raids) that you can only get loot from once per character per week. You can play them as much as you want, but you only get rewards for your first run of the week.
geordiemp
Member
Glad you informed us of how the bosses in Destiny 2 play. Tell us more....
lol
Stop trolling, your CRAP at it, and just making shit up. Nobody has no idea about boss mechanics yet...so
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
you're comparing a 3rd person RPG to an FPS, not MMOs. You can compare the games on the type of content they deliver, both share loot, skill trees and everything that comes with currencies and online vanity shit.
Reading over the responses now and I do think that it was a poor decision to not show the new way Patrols work during the reveal. They talked about a lot of exciting stuff but without showing it, they kept one of the largest potential changes from the first game under wraps.
If they achieve all of their goals with that, it will be a significant improvement from the first game that will deliver much closer to what many expected the first game to be. Treasure hunts, Lost Sectors, and more sidequest/NPC interaction will be a large step forward.
If they achieve all of their goals with that, it will be a significant improvement from the first game that will deliver much closer to what many expected the first game to be. Treasure hunts, Lost Sectors, and more sidequest/NPC interaction will be a large step forward.
It's a nonsense talking point that borders on trolling, to be honest. The same as the Splatoon 2 stuff.
I 100% believe if Destiny 2 and Splatoon 2 looked exactly the same but with an unrecognizable UI on top of it, the "looks like DLC" crap would be cut in half.
The UIs looking nearly identical will, yes, make the game look similar. But if you actually take a minute to read up on the game, you'll know it's clearly a sequel.
Four entirely new planets that also happen to be bigger than the first game's planets with NPCs, side-quests, outposts and deeper ways to patrol. The entire Crucible changed to 4v4, which drastically changes how it plays. The weapon system completely redesigned. In-game LFG. Three new subclasses.
Yes, we can complain about the UI looking to similar and perhaps expecting a bigger graphical jump. But this is unquestionably worthy of being called a sequel.
I 100% believe if Destiny 2 and Splatoon 2 looked exactly the same but with an unrecognizable UI on top of it, the "looks like DLC" crap would be cut in half.
The UIs looking nearly identical will, yes, make the game look similar. But if you actually take a minute to read up on the game, you'll know it's clearly a sequel.
Four entirely new planets that also happen to be bigger than the first game's planets with NPCs, side-quests, outposts and deeper ways to patrol. The entire Crucible changed to 4v4, which drastically changes how it plays. The weapon system completely redesigned. In-game LFG. Three new subclasses.
Yes, we can complain about the UI looking to similar and perhaps expecting a bigger graphical jump. But this is unquestionably worthy of being called a sequel.
Destiny 2 is very much an, if it's not broke, don't fix it, approach to sequels.
Two major components were basically perfect in Destiny: The UI, and the gameplay. Bungie knows what they got right and there's no reason to reboot those.
What they're doing is changing pretty much everything around them.
Kor of Memory
Member
The comparisons to WoW have nothing to do with graphics or gameplay.
Bungie sold us on Destiny being a 10 year platform. When that wasn't going to happen they told us they would be leaving behind Destiny 1 because Destiny 2 needed a fresh start.
Bungie convinced a lot of people that Destiny would be a hub game that just got more and more expansions as time went on. They even went so far as to call them by Year. Destiny Year 1, Year 2, Year 3.
Now Destiny 2 is giving us a fresh start, but mostly from a balancing perspective. The game needed to be changed. Several subsystems needed to be overhauled in a way that an expansion doesn't seem to quite be able to do. Except Bungie did do it. With Taken King Bungie overhauled their leveling system for the better. So we're caught in this limbo where we've seen what Bungie can do with an expansion, so we're left wondering why we need to fork over $60 to abandon our old game for one that feels lesser in many ways.
If this game wasn't coming out for PC - I don't think I would bother playing it at all.
I feel like the QoL improvements are there and they're cool, but i'm disappointed about the same classes and the ships being just nothing except something to look at when loading into a strike.
A problem I had with Destiny 1 (probably just me) but I felt like the classes didn't really have enough uniqueness. I guess you can't really make them too different as its a FPS game at its core...all the classes are gonna shoot the guns. I was hoping they'd shake it up a bit more.
Too early to judge it - but i'll probably give the PC version a shot as I can finally play it with PC friends.
I feel like the QoL improvements are there and they're cool, but i'm disappointed about the same classes and the ships being just nothing except something to look at when loading into a strike.
A problem I had with Destiny 1 (probably just me) but I felt like the classes didn't really have enough uniqueness. I guess you can't really make them too different as its a FPS game at its core...all the classes are gonna shoot the guns. I was hoping they'd shake it up a bit more.
Too early to judge it - but i'll probably give the PC version a shot as I can finally play it with PC friends.
Succinct and well said. Pretty much how I feel as well. I'm getting this same notion from a lot of the long-time Destiny players I've talked to.
Given the way Bungie built everything up for Destiny 2 and how they played up the angle that we'd lose everything and start over...I expected a complete overhaul instead of the more subtle, smaller tweaks they're making. They also talked numerous times about the tools, PS3/360, and engine of Destiny 1 really holding them back...yet we aren't seeing that huge, enormous leap with Destiny 2.
I did have to roll my eyes when it shows the ships flying in as the loading screen in almost the exact same animation/sequence as Destiny 1. Hopefully they've at least improved load times across the board.
There are videos of a strike. Showing people fighting bosses.
Sky Walker
Member
Because they don't know what they want: If it was similar to the first one, they will describe it as an expansion for D1 and it should look different. If it was different, they will say it doesn't look like a destiny game anymore and they will miss the original one.
geordiemp
Member
I thought it was good, and a million times more exciting than watching people take turns pressing buttons in a JRPG and set animations.
Its a shooter, what did you expect ?
DryvBy
Member
Whew, that is crazy similar. I had only seen the trailer footage.
I honestly don't see how anyone doesn't see this as a step up (DLC) instead of a leap up (sequel).
Tranqueris
Banned
Destiny is gonna be amazing, it's gonna be a thing of beauty, believe me. The story is gonna be so amazing you're gonna throw Star Wars in the garbage when this game comes out. You see that mountain over there? First of all, it's fabulous, it has the best, most realistic rocks, believe me. You can go there, you can go there whenever you want and it's gonna be fantastic. You're gonna win so much in this game, you're gonna say, "But Bungie, I'm so tired of winning, I'm winning so much and it's fantastic."
OmegaDL50
Member
There are many games which UI doesn't change much from title to title, that doesn't mean each new sequel in the series seems like an expansion.
Dark Souls or any other game with iterate on a proven formula as sequels are good examples.
XANDER CAGE
Member
There's nothing vague or arbitrary about what I said. The sequels the OP listed were marketed with massive changes. Destiny 2 is - so far, at least - is being shown as not fixing what isn't broken, and making tweaks to the existing game that are definitely big for people already into Destiny - tweaking subclasses IS a big deal if you are a seasoned player - but aren't exactly blockbuster bullet points.
If you were only peripherally aware of Halo, you'd probably still notice that "online multiplayer and you can hold two guns at once" is different. That's a sea change. Destiny 2 isn't bad for not rocking its own boat, but the revelations at the event were clearly geared towards people already intimately familiar with the game.
Lord of Ostia
Member
People would've probably been happier with a new class and 2 raids instead of just one new raid. The new subclasses look cool but I think most people expected a new class. That would've been something that none of the previous expansions did, while this sequel is mostly doing things expansions did, just more all at once
I also typed up my own thoughts last night. I go a little further than just visual identity though.
Primethius
Banned
2 looks like an expansion because the biggest stuff they were showing off was QoL stuff. And that's cool I guess. But if your tired of Destiny or weren't really very interested in it, the reveal showed little outside of that.
I put over 200 hours in Destiny and bought all the expansions at the insistence of a few friends. And this reveal to me? It was bad.
Do all the stuff you were doing, but a bit easier. That's not an exciting hook. Also not sure why so much of the reveal was spent on the same lore (e.g. building upon it). The story and lore in Destiny was garbage. Should've rebooted that aspect entirely.
I put over 200 hours in Destiny and bought all the expansions at the insistence of a few friends. And this reveal to me? It was bad.
Do all the stuff you were doing, but a bit easier. That's not an exciting hook. Also not sure why so much of the reveal was spent on the same lore (e.g. building upon it). The story and lore in Destiny was garbage. Should've rebooted that aspect entirely.
benicillin
Banned
The idea that all sequels are huge leaps up is kinda crazy considering for a lot of games that's not really true.
Good for you, bad for me. And I don't know what you mean with the pressing buttons in JRPG and a set of animations.
Destiny was boring and mediocre in many ways for me. I found for example, Doom, Wolfensten New Order, Old Blood, Quake Championship beta and Titanfall 2 of recently played shooters to be really fun and exciting. Battlefield 1, Infinite Ware and Destiny was all fun for a few hours, then they all got boring. Well at least Infinite Warfare was better than Black Ops 3 and Ghosts.
And I can't forget Six Siege, I don't think Ive played a FPS game as much since back when MW2 released. Extremely addicting, fun and enjoyable FPS.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I cant do it using D2s updates though. Thats the difference.
If you want to keep playing the newest Destiny and keep up to check with other players, you absolutely cant be playing D1.