I had intended to bump this thread on a better note, but something ocurred during Ramadan this year that bothered me.

Those who are familiar with me might know that I'm a really big Weeknd fan.
So I was bumping his songs while I went to the train station one Friday to pick my cousin up. He got in as Secrets was ending.

"Sounds like an 80s style song" he says. The next song that plays is the Hills, personally my favorite song ever and the reason I made this thread. The line about fucking 2 bitches happens and he starts chuckling and then he starts saying things that pissed me off. This was a while ago at this point so I'll have to paraphrase but I'll write it as best I remember.

"Music is supposed to be art, but this isn't art, this is rubbish..." he even went as far as bringing race into it. "Black people have only themselves to blame..." and I'm thinking, what? you're going to judge an entire race of people based off of 1 line of 1 song? what the fuck. I was going to start an argument with him but he'd rather not argue at the time.

But, that doesn't mean I forgot about what he said. So I've been thinking of this thread, and I WISH I had thought of this thread at the time. I could've easily just been like, "Well how do you know he's not in character in the song? What makes you think he's actually advocating this type of lifestyle instead of just singing about previous dark lifestyle experiences?" The only thing I could think of was asking "Did you like the song before this one?" And he said something like "Well I wasn't listening to the lyrics..." even though he sounded like he liked it when it was playing.

BTW, here is the Kanye West video I was referring to in the OP.

https://twitter.com/hotfreestyle/status/735888554761588736?lang=en

Skip to 1:30 for the quote that I referenced.

torre_avenue said:

I'd say music has the same effect on you as video games do or as film does, which is to say a little bit in terms of personality but not a lot in terms of one's core set of beliefs.

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Since they are all forms of entertainment, perhaps they do have the same effect to some degree. Uncharted 4 is my most played game of this generation but when I see the "mass murderer" arguments I think they do hold water; Drake isn't a soldier, he isn't a thug/gangster, so whatever premonition going on when he's shooting people in my opinion isn't an excuse because he's a thief, motivated by hunting treasure. He's not meant to be seen as a despicable person like a GTA protagonist who kills people and are okay with it, nor is he meant to be desensitized to killing for a cause like a soldier; Shepard from Mass Effect, he's just someone motivated by money.

As a story driven game it does affect my playthrough but not enough for me to criticize the game as a whole.

torre_avenue said:

As for the idea of intent vs. content, artistic liberty and privacy is really what muddles the line between the two. For example, "House of Balloons" is all about drugs, debauchery, excess, pleasure, and emptiness, but its existence doesn't necessarily mean the Weeknd advocates people to go to that lifestyle. However, in the age of artists carefully curating what information about them gets out, there's no real reason for us to believe that the Weeknd is advocating against it. So, in that sense, how can one make a differentiation between an artist's intent vs his content if our perception of the artist is what their PR rep wants us to believe?

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With the bolded, you have a point. However, I think there are hints and clues to point to how he doesn't advocate for the lifestyle he portrays in his songs. Also, Balloons was his first mixtape, which is all him, I don't think PR could dictate what his fans are to believe out of it.

As an example of a hidden message, when he sings "This is a happy house" perhaps it can be interpreted as him just trying to tell himself that it's all good and happy when it's really not; in fact, the song he samples sings this line in a sarcastic manner.

In Kissland, the title track of his first album (which maybe PR did have a hand in), the outro of the song goes "This is nothing to relate to, even if you tried..." when he gets done singing about rounding up a bunch of girls and bringing them back to his place with prescription drugs, adderall, alcohol, and marijuana in his system. Those are 2 examples I could think of off the top of my head that be towards the argument that there is a difference in intent and content for his music.

torre_avenue said:

Second, in terms of vibing out to stuff, I personally love HoB because of the way I think it simulates what a haze sounds like, in my mind. I have literally no experience with drugs, women, or even a vacuous lifestyle like the protagonist, but the way the production and the lyrics simulate what I believe is the haze of pleasure, loneliness, and emptiness is what helps me vibe out to it. For a more generalized view of it, I vibe out to a lot of stuff; aggressive electronic-punk or whatever the fuck Death Grips is to Kanye's work to some more underground electronic stuff to Nicolas Jaar. What I believe this shows is that I don't particularly care about what the artist is physically saying, more that I enjoy how the various layers of one's music coalesce into something...greater. And because of that, I've gotten into a lot of trouble with picking music to play to my friends that have really questionable lyrics or are just too weird for them e.g. Frank Ocean's "Novocane", SOPHIE's "Lemonade", or Jamie xx's "Good Times". But that's neither here nor there, the point is even though I can't relate to anyone of my favorite artists, I enjoy their music because it strikes a chord with me that no other artist can. It's that special sixth sense where when you listen to a project, it drags you into its world and forces you to pay attention. If a project is that good, the artist deserves my attention and fandom.

I hope that answers the questions in the topic.

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It definitely does answer the question, and I can definitely relate to you with a lot of the things you said here.

As well, yeah, the Weeknd's music particularly his mixtapes are about drugs, sex, and depression. House of Balloons is the most depression driven, Thursday is the most drug driven, and Echoes of Silence is the most sex driven although all 3 subjects are still heavily themed in all 3 mixtapes. I can relate to 2 out of the 3 things (can't relate to the sex at all), the depression I know is different from the depression he knows, and the only drug I do habitually is marijuana but even then I am so attached to his music - although it does not define who I am.

I have to admit though I haven't listened to most of the other music you suggested. I *think* I heard Novocane.