I did last page but it should be seen again.
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Halo |OT2| Hyper-Athletic Speed And Mass And Weight and Power
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I did last page but it should be seen again.
Barrow Roll
Member
So who wants to test out this no bleedthrough Super Slayer shiz? Only for a couple games though.
Every Tsquared interview that asks about what he wants out of Halo sounds like he can't convey what he likes about Halo gameplay, and how it could be better. He just talks about rank and player progression because I don't think he knows what he wants out of the game mechanics. Not to say that he can't tell what is good Halo or bad Halo gameplay, but just that he doesn't know how to convey it in words.
I'm about to hop on. Got caught up at werk.
Right now? Okay.
Barrow Roll
Member
HURRY UP.
I see no issue why we can't have both (unless they have technical restrictions), the problem with ranks for Halo 2/3 was cheating, boosting, etc. Then Bungie tried with Arena and it did cut down on those things because no one really played it/liked it. So now people are quitting all the time with really no repercussions. As corny as it sounds ranks always put more insensitive for people to play even if it's for casual gamers. This isn't about adding it for Reach, Reach is done. This is all about Halo 4.
Whenever I follow links to the Waypoint forums, I get access denied. Arg.
ncsuDuncan
Member
Something Wicked
Member
Too many playlists for ranked games will lower populations and jack up pre-match wait-times. There is a risk of providing too many specific playlists.
Read my post again.
Would you call Elo ratings in chess a "carrot on a stick"?
Sabotage your team? Assists were worth more than kills! it took them 7 seasons to switch to W/L, not just after launch.
Orznge, double posting like clockwork.
I'm so sorry that I doubleposted, instead of taking up the Computron posting style and posting huge image macros from a decade ago.
Ranks progressed like in warcraft, more time meant higher level. Ranks didn't lock you in to your true skill (not to be confused with trueskill)
Franklinator
Member
So DLC is required to play Big Team Battle now? Just tried to play with a friend of mine, but it wouldn't let us because he doesn't have the DLC. And he's not willing to buy them because $20 for the two map packs is kind of expensive, and that's assuming that Anniversary isn't required
We can still have unranked playlists for others, maybe just rank playlist like these:
Ranked:
- Team Slayer
- Team Objective
- Team Snipers
- Team Swat
- Double Team
- Rumble Pit
- Big Team Battle
- MLG (once rules are in place)
Unranked
- Team Battle (TS/OBJ)
- Big Team Battle
- Living Dead
- Grifball
- Multi Team
- Action Sack
- etc
That's 14, Reach has 22 right now. I'm sure 343i got some new ideas and playlist they want to implement so it should be pretty even.
I'm aware of this but due to the fact that competition incentivizes cheating and other potentially negative behavior a lot of people are seemingly resigned to not caring whether there's a competitive system implemented at all, rather than implementing one in a way that works to curb this behavior.
Correction: Relevant and AWESOME image macros. We were talking about graphics for god's sake, Would you rather I describe you the pixels? And I posted new 14k shots for Halo 4 as well.
What reach did was make the ranking invisible to the player, by using trueskill. Now i am sure you can point me to a game where trueskill seemed like it failed terrible and your team went +100 but it mostly works, better than other games, and I would say better than Halo 3. Also, how many ebay listings do you see for Reach accounts?
Halo 3 style 1-50 is nowhere near comparable to ELO. ELO is more similar to Trueskill.
What would you propose we do? Go back to the broken system?
I'm not sure, since I haven't searched ebay for Reach accounts. However I hope I'm not alone in not wanting to throw away visible ranks that let me track progress just so people can't spend money to have a number and tiny picture next to their name.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
TSquared is a moron.
Does he really believe that because Reach doesn't have visible skill rankings that Trueskill was suddenly dropped from matchmaking?
You can criticise Trueskill for it's failings but telling folks Bungie didn't even implement it in Reach due to time constraints is one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard a "pro" gamer say.
moron said:
Does he really believe that because Reach doesn't have visible skill rankings that Trueskill was suddenly dropped from matchmaking?
You can criticise Trueskill for it's failings but telling folks Bungie didn't even implement it in Reach due to time constraints is one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard a "pro" gamer say.
Why...oh why...do I continue to play Big Team Battle when it always causes more frustration and anguish when I could be playing other variants that don't drive me insane? I think it's high time I abandoned any hope I had of ever enjoying that mode.
Although I will admit that knocking a falcon out of the air with a charged plasma pistol and killing everyone on board with a single grenade when it crashes into the ground is always satisfying.
Although I will admit that knocking a falcon out of the air with a charged plasma pistol and killing everyone on board with a single grenade when it crashes into the ground is always satisfying.
Why are the only options available in your head "stay the same" or "revert"? Why is it not viable to improve on what's currently available or to work on something new?
A lot of what he said seemed very counter intuitive to common sense.
It sounded to me like you wanted the old 1-50 system back, sorry if that wasn't the case. So I'll ask again, what do you propose?
The other funny thing was how he doesn't have time to read Halo books.
I don't think Tsquared is a genius, but I've thought that many many times I've played Reach. Risen and I played with some others last night in 8 games and it ended every time 75-30 and under besides 1 game when they got in the 40's. It wasn't really fun to play against those people, I'll take losing 49-50 over winning 50-15 any day of the week.
The way of the nerd books! I hate that stupid phase with people pushing that book and Gamma Gamer crap.
Anyone else think there should be some sort of party filter for unranked playlists in Halo 4? 3 and Reach had this problem where stacked teams go into casual playlists like Social Slayer and treat it as if it was an MLG game. As a primarily solo player, it gets really annoying.
Luckily there are enough other playlists to counter it, but still I would like to see an option.
Luckily there are enough other playlists to counter it, but still I would like to see an option.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Played heavies...never again. That is all.
Franklinator
Member
Steelyuhas
Member
Well there is on the matchmaking systems side. Anniversary Classic and Team Objective are set to not have individuals match up against teams of four, and obviously Arena has that as well.
Thank you.
Really guys what is that thing?
Did some digging and i think i figured it out. New Donging Perk.
Gonna try it tonight...I don't even know why, haha. Vehicular combat is not my cup of tea, especially in halo. Is it even possible to play well in Heavies without using vehicles extensively?
I should have been more clear in my original post then. The current implementation of Arena should go widespread, not the initial version of Arena.
ElzarTheBam
Member
I realise it's called heavies, but did it really need to have every weapon on the map, every vehicle possible, including two wraiths in a small enclosed forge world map?
I'm not sure, I haven't thought about it in-depth, but I'd much rather something with functioning leaderboards and a way to track my own and others' progress than an invisible system where the primary purpose of the invisibility is to curb cheating and account-selling.
How could you curb cheating and account-selling? Ideas anyone?
bobs...onGaf
Member
Nope I sure wouldn't but some people clamouring for 1-50 don't seem to care about a game unless it has 1-50. Would a Grand Master stop playing chess because ELO doesn't exist? I think he would still play for the love of the game.
Thats a pretty big digression though, going for 50 was a VERY fun, challenging and satisfying goal. It provided me with a reason to take certain playlists more seriously and it provided good competition. I love 1-50. I want Halo 4 to have good gameplay AND a good ranking system. I was just explaining badly on a bad tangeant about how I care more about gameplay.
J-Roderton
Member
Oh lawd, sounds like some of the random customs I used to play.
The new update actually gives extra points if you are on foot when you kill.
We should play, send me an invite i am on now.
Arena was the first ranking system in a Halo game that didn't require you to grind through legions of awful players to get to your starting skill point. The 1-50 system was inherently flawed (and far too easy to reach max rank in 3 - I'm nowhere near the top 1% of players in the game and got to 49 playing with Norwegian host every game). Onyx 1% is a meaningful statistic, a 50 isn't.
I am not a mathematician, so correct me if you see something weird, but;
That seems to me like part of the problem. Ideally, only about 1/50th of the population shoud get to that level, so unless you really are that good, it's not the destination. There should be an even spread of players in each rank and it should be constantly moving/adjusting every time a player moves up of down. Meaning it's a relative scale, WHICH IS WHAT ELO IS.
So trueskill.
I dont know how you can improve over it, although that doesn't mean its impossible.
I wish they displayed population divisions were more clearly. Onyx doesn't mean much if only 200 people are playing it. Otherwise, I love the division system. It works brilliantly at showing your skill relative to the population when the known population is shown, like Starcraft.
I know Tashi and I have brought it up before, but there's a lot to learn from Blizzard and Starcraft 2 about matching players, ranking, and map/gametype preferences.
I hate to tell you this, but your information is way, way off. 1-50 wasn't Elo. A 50 isn't and shouldn't be 1/50th of the population.
Franklinator
Member
Thanks for the code, derFeef!
bobs...onGaf
Member
It depends on your definition of 'going for 50', I hope your not implying that moving up and down is not possible in ELO, I dont know anything about ELO but I do know that no one is born a Chess Grand Master lol.
I think the Halo 3 population spread was probably fairer than most realize, even on forums where people playing the game 24/7 there was a fair spread of ranks. I think a harsher system would just bunch up too much at the lower ranks.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Reach diffidently has Hidden trueskill The calibur of people i face when playing with my RL friends who dont play alot to when i play alone with randoms and then when i play with a good team like you guys or juices/devo/kyle is clearly worlds apart.
I'd like the old 1-50 system from H2 back. The system more accurately tracked your ability in a TEAM game. Win and you go up, lose and you go down and you're only matched within a specific window of your number. All the intangibles that go into winning are rewarded in the win, and the lack of same penalized in the loss. I can say emphatically my games in H2 as a 43 in hardcore were competitive the vast majority to the time. Remove trueskill altogether so that people cannot manipulate their positioning simply by throwing games.
The inclusion of trueskill did more to allow cheating than deter precisely because it can be fooled. People go in, lose badly on purposed for x number of games, then win a sufficient number which fools the system into thinking they should not have been winning them, and they rank up faster.
Arena initially was completely broken by how stats were applied and not accurately measuring the assist. The change to wins/loses was a huge step in the right direction.
Cheating should be addressed, but by penalizing those that cheat and ensuring it's hard to tamper with the network, not adjusting to an inferior system (in my opinion - I get we're polar opposites here).
That's the opposite of what I am saying, it was seemingly impossible to do so under the 1-50 Halo 3 system, unlike say pure trueskill.
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