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Dr. Carroll
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:05 AM)
I'm uneasy about the trial by social media of Nick Robinson. I can't say I'm familiar with the guy, and he could very well be guilty as hell of the things he is accused of, but people are essentially forming a conviction from rumour and innuendo. The role of social media in snowballing internet hate mobs has been repeatedly demonstrated.

"So You've Been Publicly Shamed" is a really good book that explores this subject. People set themselves up as judge, jury and executioner of strangers on the internet, and feel good about themselves doing it.
cheez124
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:09 AM)
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JonTron. I would only really watch his stuff with my brother, but we really enjoyed watching his videos together and it hit us kinda hard when we found out what he was really like.

Originally Posted by Messofanego

Jim Carrey Slams California School Vaccine Legislation: It's "Poisoning More Children"

That was recently in 2015.

Holy shit, did not know he was an anti vaxxer. Man that really sucks.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
(08-05-2017, 11:11 AM)
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I really liked Azealia Banks' music, but her politics...... yuck....

When she showed off that cupboard in her house where she apparently sacrificed chickens due to her religion, nope.......
SuperStiltzkin
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:12 AM)
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Has there ever been a reverse milkshake duck? Where a shitty person has actually grown and learned to not be shitty?
theaface
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by HylianTom

Michael Caine dismissed the idea that racism was a factor in the Brexit vote. It was a sad moment.

He also said re: Brexit that he voted leave because he'd rather live as a poor free man than a rich slave. He's worth about 30 million. Fuck Michael Caine.
Chance Hale
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Messofanego

The Nirvana album?

I wish but mostly realizing going into my family history drunk isn't a good idea :P
Shaanyboi
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:15 AM)

Originally Posted by Dr. Carroll

I'm uneasy about the trial by social media of Nick Robinson. I can't say I'm familiar with the guy, and he could very well be guilty as hell of the things he is accused of, but people are essentially forming a conviction from rumour and innuendo. The role of social media in snowballing internet hate mobs has been repeatedly demonstrated.

"So You've Been Publicly Shamed" is a really good book that explores this subject. People set themselves up as judge, jury and executioner of strangers on the internet, and feel good about themselves doing it.

I'm sorry, is Nick Robinson under threat of being sent to the electric chair?

Woman makes a comment suggesting he's a creep. Other woman make similar statements, without being too specific because of fucking course they are putting themselves in the crosshairs of misogynist whackjobs the game industry is sadly infested with. His friends respond with disgust and seemingly cut ties with him. He is now being investigated by his employer. If this is unfounded, his employer will say so. If not, motherfucker gets fired. It shouldn't take an internet mob (who are ultimately powerless in the matter) to take accusations of sexual harassment seriously.
dos
Junior Member
(08-05-2017, 11:16 AM)

Originally Posted by Aselith

Billy Corgan being a wacko

This
ZombiePlatypus
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dr. Carroll

I'm uneasy about the trial by social media of Nick Robinson. I can't say I'm familiar with the guy, and he could very well be guilty as hell of the things he is accused of, but people are essentially forming a conviction from rumour and innuendo. The role of social media in snowballing internet hate mobs has been repeatedly demonstrated.

"So You've Been Publicly Shamed" is a really good book that explores this subject. People set themselves up as judge, jury and executioner of strangers on the internet, and feel good about themselves doing it.

This is where I'm at on that issue too. It's really disturbing to see someone's career and character decimated over anecdotal statements.

If people are genuinely interested in supporting the alleged victims (as they claim to be), then maybe they should hit pause on their internet-mob parade and actually focus on making sure the alleged victims feel safe, heard, and empowered to speak up. Let the law and the team conducting a formal investigation deal with the alleged perpetrator and his comeuppance. Internet court is not entitled to details. But, until the investigation is done and he's shown to actually be guilty, any premature punishment reduces this whole thing to a witch-hunt which is a massive fucking disservice to both sides.
Messofanego
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:19 AM)

Originally Posted by SuperStiltzkin

Has there ever been a reverse milkshake duck? Where a shitty person has actually grown and learned to not be shitty?

Jim Sterling. Now he's a very inclusive person.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:21 AM)
There are like a few top models on myfreecams with very high ranks which I tipped quite a bit when moments later they blurted out some low key racist ass shit followed by me clicking on their Twitter and seeing all sorts of alt right shit retweeted by them. Boner killed, tokens wasted. I can't fap to chicks who vote Republican. Check those twitters first yall.
rec0ded1
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aselith

Billy Corgan being a wacko

First post delivers. Also Cosby.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:26 AM)
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My top Milkshake Ducks:

1) Almost the entirety of my dad's side of the family.

2) I used to follow this streamer who shall remain nameless. The night of the election, we're all making Star Wars references, not even talking about actual policy or anything. I reference how a lot of people view Trump as Vader, and all of the sudden, the entire stream plus the streamer gangs up on me. It really hit me hard because I liked this persons stream, and it was over a Star Wars joke, and she was a she and Latina.

3) The guy that outed JonTron is actually a horrible person that uses autism as a very frequent insult.

4) Guy I knew in college. Had to recently defriend him on FB because he turned out to be a huge gator.

5) Notch. Holy shit, Notch. I never really looked up to the guy, but I at least thought he was an okay dude. It really takes a special kind of person to go from being a video game icon to someone that a fucking charity feels bad accepting money from.

Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

Adam Baldwin helped coin the whole Gamergate term

No, not helped. He did.
Dr. Carroll
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:28 AM)

Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

I'm sorry, is Nick Robinson under threat of being sent to the electric chair?

I recommend you read the book.


Social media has bought public shaming back, in a new and twisted form.

Public shaming was originally outlawed across the UK and US because scholars and lawyers and judges came to the conclusion that to shame someone in public was worse than executing them. It was better to give someone a hundred lashes in a private room than a dozen lashes publicly. Because publicly humiliating someone would destroy their very self. They would be broken in a way that could never be fully fixed.

Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

Woman makes a comment suggesting he's a creep. Other woman make similar statements, without being too specific because of fucking course they are putting themselves in the crosshairs of misogynist whackjobs the game industry is sadly infested with. His friends respond with disgust and seemingly cut ties with him. He is now being investigated by his employer.

And you actually see this as a good thing? Someone's life potentially destroyed without the firm evidence necessary to prove or disprove their guilt. This is why the very concept of innocence until proven guilty exists.

We have destroyed people's ability to walk away from false accusations untarnished. We've all seen the image macros where the false claim gets a hundred thousand retweets while the retraction gets 50. Social media has completely screwed due process.
MCN
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:28 AM)
Notch.
EVO
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:30 AM)
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I suppose I thought less of Jason Lee when I learnt he was a Scientologist.
JonnyDBrit
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Messofanego

Jim Sterling. Now he's a very inclusive person.

Good one. The sad irony is that he's now an actual case of edgy humour being used for irony purposes (primarily in his general aesthetic), vs all the milkshake ducks out there. So it's easy to lump him into the wrong crowd before realising he is basically against everything that crowd stands for.
chaobreaker
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:33 AM)
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I recently found out Robert DeNiro is an anti-vaxxer too. Shame.
IrishNinja
(08-05-2017, 11:33 AM)
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milkshake duck is almost literally jontron, it's too on the nose. for me it'd be if mark from CGR went that way.

there's a few ive unfollowed on twitter for similar reasons but no one that's hit me hard yet. i think the slowest ive let anyone go so far is kanye, still not entirely done there.

Originally Posted by chaobreaker

I recently found out Robert DeNiro is an anti-vaxxer too. Shame.

noooooooooooooooooo
DrKelpo
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:35 AM)

Originally Posted by besada

Doug Wildey, the guy who is responsible for Johnny Quest. I met him at a con. I had an earring in. He asked me if I was some sort of queer boy.

good lord... how to lose a fan in 10 seconds or less.
Sai-kun
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by axisofweevils

I really liked Azealia Banks' music, but her politics...... yuck....

I was trying to think of someone and couldn't until this post.

Fuck Azealia Banks. What a fucking shame because BWET is insanely good, but she is insanely shit.

Edit: oh my god I can't @ the poster defending harassers and anti-abortion wackos lmfao. You know someone isn't biased at all when they refer to the options as 'anti-abortion' and 'pro-abortion' 😂😂😂😂😂 who the fuck is pro abortion
Shaanyboi
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:36 AM)

Originally Posted by Dr. Carroll

I recommend you read the book.


Social media has bought public shaming back, in a new and twisted form.

Public shaming was originally outlawed across the UK and US because scholars and lawyers and judges came to the conclusion that to shame someone in public was worse than executing them. It was better to give someone a hundred lashes in a private room than a dozen lashes publicly. Because publicly humiliating someone would destroy their very self. They would be broken in a way that could never be fully fixed.


And you actually see this as a good thing? Someone's life potentially destroyed without the firm evidence necessary to prove or disprove their guilt. This is why the very concept of innocence until proven guilty exists.

We have destroyed people's ability to walk away from false accusations untarnished. We've all seen the image macros where the false claim gets a hundred thousand retweets while the retraction gets 50. Social media has completely screwed due process.

You're more concerned with how this will affect Nick than how the people he's been accused of harassing are made to feel being unable to speak openly about this without endangering themselves. This isn't exclusive to gaming, or geek culture in general, but this is the circle we occupy.

Do you think without all these people reacting to what these women are saying, Polygon or anybody would have actually looked into a case like This? Because chances are, they probably wouldn't.

But if you wanna continue defending him, there's a thread right now for you to do so.
Messofanego
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:36 AM)
Is there any dirt on Al Pacino?
SpaceWolf
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:37 AM)
Orson Scott Card. He was something of a hero to me when I was younger, on the account of the fact I used to cherish one of his books on writing.

Oh, Orson, you silly fuck.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by SpaceWolf

Orson Scott Card. He was something of a hero to me when I was younger, on the account of the fact I used to cherish one of his books on writing.

Oh, Orson, you silly fuck.

Yup. Mentioned Ender's Game in a previous post. Cannot fathom how someone could hold such views while writing stories about selflessly accepting others.
Aselith
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Messofanego

Is there any dirt on Al Pacino?

He smells like mothballs and milk crust
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by SpaceWolf

Orson Scott Card. He was something of a hero to me when I was younger, on the account of the fact I used to cherish one of his books on writing.

Oh, Orson, you silly fuck.

Oh shit, good one.

This wasn't a personal one to me, but it did affect me.
Harmen
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:53 AM)
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I don't understand this whole milkshake duck thing. Is there a meme meaning behind the words "milkshake" and 'duck"?

But for me, a person who made glorious content only to turn out to be a full on racist is Jontron. I was aware of some problematic earlier tweets, but he got increasingly shittier and then came that whole Destiny thing, which was one big racist meltdown of stupidity. Fuck him.
MCN
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:56 AM)

Originally Posted by Harmen

I don't understand this whole milkshake duck thing. Is there a meme meaning behind the words "milkshake" and 'duck"?

No, it's just a duck that drinks milkshakes seems like the kind of thing the internet would latch onto and make really popular.
kAmui-
Member
(08-05-2017, 11:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by EVO

I suppose I thought less of Jason Lee when I learnt he was a Scientologist.

Thankfully he's left scientology.
veryslowhand
Banned
(08-05-2017, 11:58 AM)
Eric clapton is racist? Fuck me
Messofanego
Banned
(08-05-2017, 12:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Harmen

I don't understand this whole milkshake duck thing. Is there a meme meaning behind the words "milkshake" and 'duck"?

Originally Posted by MCN

No, it's just a duck that drinks milkshakes seems like the kind of thing the internet would latch onto and make really popular.

Did you miss the OP? It's a meme by pixelated boat.



Everyone falls in love with a milkshake duck then it turns out they actually have terrible views and so people stop loving it.
Desperado
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:00 PM)
One of my middle school teachers is in large part responsible for what field of work I ended up in. She added me on FB a few years back and I found out she was super conservative.

There's been a lot of more minor cases in the last few months for me where someone will reveal part of who they are/what they believe in (e.g. dropping a slur casually) and honestly I'm to the point where I find myself unable to admire new musicians, YouTubers, etc. I find because who knows when they might eventually say some heinous shit, have it revealed that they voted Trump, or so on.

Like, I guess the lesson is that idolization is not entirely healthy and to not attach part of your identity to other people so much (especially people you don't actually know).
Harmen
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by MCN

No, it's just a duck that drinks milkshakes seems like the kind of thing the internet would latch onto and make really popular.

Ah, thinking about it in that perspective makes sense, thanks. I tend to overthink things sometimes.

Originally Posted by Messofanego

Did you miss the OP? It's a meme by pixelated boat.



Everyone falls in love with a milkshake duck then it turns out they actually have terrible views and so people stop loving it.

Yes, I read it, but thought maybe that was based on some other thing I missed. I thought milkshake duck was derived from some actual (memed) character or something, but I get it now.
HariKari
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dr. Carroll

Does this include the awful view that abortion should be legal? A lot of people hold arguably reprehensible views. It's stupid to get worked up about them. That's what I was trying to get at. Donald Trump and his fans are just an example of a developer saying mean things about a political demographic.

Again, this terrible argument doesn't belong in a thread where we're talking about full blown racists and the like.

Originally Posted by Dr. Carroll

If someone posted, "If you are a supporter of feminism, don't buy our game. Fuck off!" would you feel the same way? That would be a very unpleasant thing to post. It was poor form to say such things about Trump supporters who might want to experience their game.

The people that would post such things are probably coming from a place of hatred, especially towards women, so I think most people would be quite happy to not buy the game. Most corporations wouldn't willingly associate with such people, nor would those people find it easy to get jobs in the industry when they've been associated with something so toxic. That's because hating on women is not morally equivalent with disliking Trump, despite you insisting such is true.

Won't somebody please think of the racists/homophobes/xenophobes/mysoginists/Trump supporters? is a really odd position to take but here you are.

Originally Posted by Dr. Carroll

There needs to be more self-reflection, is what I'm saying. You likely hold views that I or someone else finds reprehensible. How would you like it if someone organized an internet hate mob against you?

"If you also happened to be a borderline nazi piece of shit like JonTron, how would you like it if people called you out on it?"

Really bringing the heat there bud.
HyperZone<3
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:07 PM)
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John Wayne.

granted, he died before I was born. But I was a budding cinema nerd even at a young age, finding out how little he would have resembled his heroic characters was a splash of cold water. Of course he got famous for a crapload of films that are problematic to begin with, but nobody has to feel guilty for liking Jimmy Stewart decades later on.
acheron_xl
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:10 PM)
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Notch is a good one. Success really turned him into a monster.
IrishNinja
(08-05-2017, 12:11 PM)
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jesus, ill never get over how many of ya'll reply to some shit without a cursory google/urbandictionary/etc check, much less reading OP and going I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS IS ABOUT LOLOL like it's cute

Originally Posted by HyperZone<3

John Wayne.

granted, he died before I was born. But I was a budding cinema nerd even at a young age, finding out how little he would have resembled his heroic characters was a splash of cold water. Of course he got famous for a crapload of films that are problematic to begin with, but nobody has to feel guilty for liking Jimmy Stewart decades later on.

yeah, this - big fan of the duke coming up (preacher reinforced it), then i dug deeper.
never, ever watch No Substitute For Victory

Originally Posted by acheron_xl

Notch is a good one. Success really turned him into a monster.

oh yeah, this is another great example right here - loved minecraft, was so happy for him & gave him the benefit of the doubt years ago at that party that got creepy, then BAM buys that house from under Jay-Z, starts up with the IM NOT AN SJW shit and spirals down the shitter with a quickness
zashga
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:18 PM)
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Koichi Sugiyama is one of mine. He wrote so many classic tunes for Dragon Quest, but he's also an apologist/denier for Japanese atrocities in WW2. Puts a bit of a damper on my enjoyment of his work.

Originally Posted by HP_Wuvcraft

5) Notch. Holy shit, Notch. I never really looked up to the guy, but I at least thought he was an okay dude. It really takes a special kind of person to go from being a video game icon to someone that a fucking charity feels bad accepting money from.

This is another good one. It's hard for me to separate Notch from Minecraft in my mind, which has led to me just not wanting to play Minecraft anymore. Him taking the money and turning into an embittered asshole is such a cruel inversion of the plucky indie success story he used to embody.
Dr. Carroll
Banned
(08-05-2017, 12:23 PM)

Originally Posted by HariKari

The people that would post such things are probably coming from a place of hatred, especially towards women, so I think most people would be quite happy to not buy the game. Most corporations wouldn't willingly associate with such people, nor would those people find it easy to get jobs in the industry when they've been associated with something so toxic. That's because hating on women is not morally equivalent with disliking Trump, despite you insisting such is true.

Attacking feminism is not equivalent to attacking women. Feminism is a political ideology that has evolved through a number of iterations and splintered off into a range of sub-groups with wildly conflicting beliefs.

Despite you insisting such, someone who claims to "hate feminism" does not automatically hate women. They could hate feminism for any number of reasons, including, as I mentioned earlier, the tendency of modern feminism to gravitate towards being pro-abortion and being openly hostile to women who are anti-abortion. People who are alienated by so-called "modern feminism" are left with the choice of trying to "reclaim" feminism or outright reject it and embrace the label "anti-feminist".

Only a fraction of women in America -- around 1/4 to 1/3 -- identify as feminist. They don't view feminism as the inherently good pursuit of equality between men and women. They view it as something far more politically tainted. With interpretations of what is needed for equality that go places they're not comfortable with. Parallels can be drawn to a wide range of outwardly positive political movements that over the years have gathered so much baggage people are uneasy about identifying with the label.

For a lot of women, finding out someone is a feminist is their "Oh, dear, another extremist -- shame, she seemed so sane" milkshake duck moment. That's worth chewing over.
G.O.O.
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:23 PM)
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Jim Carrey, yeah that one hurts. He's part of my childhood.

More recently, I'd go with Scott Adams. Dilbert is one of my favourite pieces of office satire, but the guy's a gross misogynist.
Muskieratboi
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:30 PM)
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Palmer Luckey's history, even though he's no longer with the company, is making me pause on pulling the trigger with the Oculus deal currently going on.

I was also a fan of JonTron's stuff before.. well, whatever that was...

But my biggest one is Doug Fucking TenNapel.

Oh, My. God. GKR, Neverhood, Earthworm Jim, just *so* many great worlds and absolutely amazing characters came out of this man's mind...

But of course, he hates my very existence.

Sigh.
HiResDes
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by G.O.O.

Jim Carrey, yeah that one hurts. He's part of my childhood.

More recently, I'd go with Scott Adams. Dilbert is one of my favourite pieces of office satire, but the guy's a gross misogynist.

What did Jim do?
Aselith
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by HiResDes

What did Jim do?

Anti vaxxer
HiResDes
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaobreaker

I recently found out Robert DeNiro is an anti-vaxxer too. Shame.

He has too many other redeeming qualities, no one is perfect jeez


... Same as above
HiResDes
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by SuperStiltzkin

Has there ever been a reverse milkshake duck? Where a shitty person has actually grown and learned to not be shitty?

The Hound
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
(08-05-2017, 12:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by HiResDes

He has too many other redeeming qualities, no one is perfect jeez


... Same as above

Nah anti vaxxer overrules all else
Wamb0wneD
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdreamofHIME

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1415751

I didn't want to chime into that thread but I'm really curious... I don't get what "games DMs" are. The only tweet I can make something out of is the one with sending nudes. Is that what he asked women for? did he blackmail them or something?

I feel dumb and old for not getting what's going on in that thread. I hate twitter.
quickwhips
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dr. Carroll

I don't think I have one. I've never been actually fussed by the personal beliefs or political advocacy of artists. I do however reserve the right to eye roll when some developer or celebrity goes on a political rant on twitter that basically amounts to whining that as a general rule, most people don't particularly care about the political beliefs of artists. They'll play a game or watch a film regardless of whether they agree with the author's beliefs or the message of the work. It's quite possible to enjoy Lord of the Rings regardless of whether you're a Republican or a Monarchist.



This was just silly. This kind of polarizing nonsense is of no practical use to anyone. This was a "Milkshake duck" moment for Trump supporters, I suppose. This developer actively hated them for their perfectly legitimate choice of failed businessman candidate.

Quite a few indie game developers in America are Planned Parenthood supporters, as are quite a few people in the film business. That's their business. It's their money, and they can do whatever they want with it. I think a vast majority of anti-abortion people wouldn't refuse to play <insert random game here> if they discovered that the lead developer was pro-abortion. It's really the vocal minority who get up in arms over the political allegiances or advocacy of artists.

I do understand people not being able to personally stomach an artist who advocates for something they find reprehensible, but the reality is that most people hold political stances someone on the other side of the fence finds reprehensible in some way.

Dude no one is ever pro abortion. Abortions are a sad thing either way you look at it. People are pro choice. Sorry to derail thread.
Frankie Williamson
Member
(08-05-2017, 12:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by JonnyDBrit

Good one. The sad irony is that he's now an actual case of edgy humour being used for irony purposes (primarily in his general aesthetic), vs all the milkshake ducks out there. So it's easy to lump him into the wrong crowd before realising he is basically against everything that crowd stands for.

Yeah, the entire reason for him changing the aesthetic of his show from power mad dictator to carnival barker is because the dictator thing started becoming less fun for him in the last year or so. I can't imagine why.....

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