Drilbit777
Member
The best thing they can do is just keep production up to combat scalpers while the stores try to implement ways to fight the bots. At least a Capcha and i'm not a robot would help a bit
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How can companies like Nintendo really combat scalpers and their bots?
- Thread starter PunjabiPlaya
- Start date
tiebreaker
Member
release the damn games as VC ffs.I don't need this classic thing if I can play those games on Switch.
EarthBound getting rereleased on the Wii U didn't affect the resale value of the original SNES cart at all. If these games are released on VC it will make more people want a SNES Classic because it would most likely work out cheaper than buying all the games individually on VC.
Devilgunman
Member
Nintendo is in business to make money, and this plactic emulator box is very likely generating huge profit per unit sold. Yes, the only answer for this is to make more. It's not necessary for them to have 10m units at launch but they should at least commit to support this hardware for years to come. However, as we've learnt from NES Classic, Nintendo has no interest to do either of that for some goddamn reasons.
This just isn't true. The Wii U was breaking records for like its first month before falling off a cliff. In the first week it outpaced the Wii.
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
1 per household for online orders. 1 per drivers license / ID in-store.
Implement a CAPTCHA system to stop bots.
All preorders opening are announced ahead of time. Retailers open allocations in waves. Something like 50% in the morning, and 50% after work, for the target region.
Make more.
Dont stop making them until demand slows down.
People will still miss out, but it would go a long way toward making it feel fair.
Implement a CAPTCHA system to stop bots.
All preorders opening are announced ahead of time. Retailers open allocations in waves. Something like 50% in the morning, and 50% after work, for the target region.
Make more.
Dont stop making them until demand slows down.
People will still miss out, but it would go a long way toward making it feel fair.
dragonyeuw
Member
After manufacturing costs, licensing, storage, shipping and retailer cut, probably not.
They just have to keep making them until demand dies down. They set a precedent with the NES Classic of discontinuing it despite probably more consumers still wanting to purchase than had purchased one. As a result, the people trying to preorder today weren't just people who had to have one at launch (I wouldn't care if I couldn't get one until next year), it was everyone who thought they might ever want one at all.
dragonyeuw
Member
And people who have no interest but to flip for profit, of course.
Haunted
Member
No one wants to wait, you think kids will be happy with a note that says "be patient" under the christmas tree? people want that thing ASAP, preferably NOW.
If demand exceeds supply at any point during a product's lifespan (most likely launch window), there will be scalpers.
Definitely. These people will always exist to make a profit off the impatient who have to have it early (likely by Christmas), and the assumed finite nature makes it even more of a profitable investment. If people can flip these for $300, that's proportional to flipping a Switch for $1125 or a launch 60 gig PS3 for $2250 back in the day. Those numbers are insane.
CamHostage
Member
I guess, this punishes older folks who have been checked out of games for a while (or don't have strong connectivity, although A) how about a goddamned library, and B) doesn't Nintendo act so old-school that it still has a mailing list of some type?), but whatever, it could work. Some sort of Nintendo Club is my preferred way of getting SNES Classic access to the fans who want it. Limit the number of orders per customer, and have the initial batch accessible only to registered members who've actually played games (maybe they'd eventually have to meet some type of better business requirement and sell future editions later with no prior ownership, but it's not a lottery/contest so I'm not sure they'd be under "No Purchase Required" stipulations?) They could still have Best Buy/GameStop fulfill the orders (online stores would be harder than places you could walk into and scan a Club card or something, maybe Nintendo Club would have an access code of some type,) Nintendo need not do all the distribution and shouldn't cut out the retailers, it's more about just making sure the product isn't damaged by the after-market reputation and that Nintendo brand loyalty is rewarded. It might be hard to get going, but it could be a retail relationship that might build in the future if they implemented it with big-ticket items like this.
There's all the wrong buzz around the Nintendo Classic consoles, and it's affecting the brand IMO.
I like this idea.
The next tier should be only selling through their online store, zip code/address and credit card billing address needing a match, and one per customer.
The big retailers like Amazon really need a way to limit bulk purchasing on new items too.
stan423321
Member
Here's a method that would surely work: just auction the thing. They could even hide the production numbers if they hosted the auction themselves.
IrgendwasmitRot
Member
Ugh, the sneaker market has become a rotten field full with scalpers. Don't trigger me on that.
The 'problem' is not only the shortage of supply but also the created by the countless media outlets. Many people's first thought on such a item is 'how much can I sell it for'. This is just sad.
They are in the business of selling product and the demand for these products is obviously very high. I refuse to believe this is a problem that can't be solved.
Neff
Member
There's a possibility that Nintendo has produced more units but is holding them back to feed stores over the coming months. This pre-release hysteria doesn't really tell us if they screwed up or not.
I remember buying a Smash Bros Kirby Amiibo just because he was cheap due to selling poorly. What a world!
I remember buying a Smash Bros Kirby Amiibo just because he was cheap due to selling poorly. What a world!
PunjabiPlaya
Member
Lots of good points made in here, lots of not so productive "make more" as well. Making pre orders strictly though Nintendo.com is a good idea since they can limit one per person/address a lot easier and the people in the know and who really want one can get it. Then for the actual release, have it available though all retailers. The scalpers will be there either way, but it's really not possible to completely stop them, the bots are a bigger issue I feel. To those saying make more and citing amiibos just need to look at store shelves these days. Amiibos were only valuable because they were initially so hard to find, and now we have almost all widely available for MSRP and a ton just collecting dust on store shelves.
Either way, a lot of the outrage is premature still I feel. Yes it's not unrealistic to believe this will be just as hard to find as the NES classic after it releases, but the fact that this time around we actually had preorders from all major retailers shows that there's definitely more stock. Until we have some hard numbers of units shipped and how the restocks look after few months, we're all basically yelling in a vacuum. It's just too early to legitimately be outraged.
Either way, a lot of the outrage is premature still I feel. Yes it's not unrealistic to believe this will be just as hard to find as the NES classic after it releases, but the fact that this time around we actually had preorders from all major retailers shows that there's definitely more stock. Until we have some hard numbers of units shipped and how the restocks look after few months, we're all basically yelling in a vacuum. It's just too early to legitimately be outraged.
Azure Phoenix
Member
Simple answer, don't make X number of units and then put them up for pre-order, put it up for pre-order and then make the amount of units ordered, plus the usual batch for consumers. Obviously manufacturing times mean this can't be exact, but after a solid 2 months of pre-orders they'll be able to estimate how many more would be needed to cover the rest of the pre-order period.
Scalpers make money from gobbling up all the stock of a product the general public wants, if the general public has no trouble ordering theirs then there is no profit to be made and scalpers won't be taking the stock in the first place.
Scalpers make money from gobbling up all the stock of a product the general public wants, if the general public has no trouble ordering theirs then there is no profit to be made and scalpers won't be taking the stock in the first place.
Is one per customer not a thing in the States? That seems really weird. SNES mini is sold out here but most people didn't have a drama getting one if you were ready when the pre-orders opened.
Also surprised that a simple account system that you see on a lot of websites wouldn't stop bots. Crazy stuff.
Also surprised that a simple account system that you see on a lot of websites wouldn't stop bots. Crazy stuff.
Is our price set or can it change to the cheaper?
dragonyeuw
Member
Just to recap my prior suggestion and tie it directly to this situation. This is IMHO what Nintendo could have done:
1. Reveal the SNES Mini in June to be released late September, announce that preorders will be handled exclusively through Nintendo initially for a two week period. Start taking orders effective immediately, one per customer/address, must have a Nintendo account and deposit( minimum $10 up to full prepayment). Immediately you've taken the power from scalpers because you've opened up the process with a reasonable amount of time for anyone who GENUINELY wants one, to grab one. Nintendo's now got firm initial production numbers and you are guaranteed a unit since, well, they took your money upfront. Start shipping them out to customers in waves late September on first order, first serve basis until all orders are fulfilled.
2. At the same time as the reveal, also announce that an additional 2/3 million units will be made available to retailers on November 1st( or split that number between November 1st and December 1st), leaving it to best buy/amazon/Toys r Us/Walmart etc to communicate with customers whether there will be preorders or in-store pickup only. This 'should' take care of any remaining demand in the lead-up to Christmas.
1. Reveal the SNES Mini in June to be released late September, announce that preorders will be handled exclusively through Nintendo initially for a two week period. Start taking orders effective immediately, one per customer/address, must have a Nintendo account and deposit( minimum $10 up to full prepayment). Immediately you've taken the power from scalpers because you've opened up the process with a reasonable amount of time for anyone who GENUINELY wants one, to grab one. Nintendo's now got firm initial production numbers and you are guaranteed a unit since, well, they took your money upfront. Start shipping them out to customers in waves late September on first order, first serve basis until all orders are fulfilled.
2. At the same time as the reveal, also announce that an additional 2/3 million units will be made available to retailers on November 1st( or split that number between November 1st and December 1st), leaving it to best buy/amazon/Toys r Us/Walmart etc to communicate with customers whether there will be preorders or in-store pickup only. This 'should' take care of any remaining demand in the lead-up to Christmas.
rackham
Member
Again, bullshit. Nintendo is the only company in the world incapable of doing it. It's artificial scarcity and they've deluded you. It's sad.
Diablohead
Member
The reason bots and scalpers are so high right now is because like the NES mini the stock levels are low, we can only guess what Nintendo are thinking.
Either Nintendo do not want to sit on SNES minis for too long worried they will not sell, they might be scared about them being hacked like the NES mini, their agreements for building them might be limited also... or it's just Nintendo being Nintendo and making X amount and calling it a day.
Either Nintendo do not want to sit on SNES minis for too long worried they will not sell, they might be scared about them being hacked like the NES mini, their agreements for building them might be limited also... or it's just Nintendo being Nintendo and making X amount and calling it a day.
dragonyeuw
Member
That's why they implement an exclusive preorder/deposit program. Only make as many as they've taken money for, with a small buffer on top. Once they'll filled those orders take preorders from retailers and allocate shipments to cover those people who didn't get to it the first time. There's no way they're going to be sitting on these things, I mean how much more obvious does the demand need to be at this point?
As for the hacking thing, if they were that concerned about it then why even make the SNES mini at all?
Scalpers are already doing that.
fredrancour
Member
They could make these year-round items if they wanted to. Scalpers wouldn't be a problem after a while.they don't, and handled a second product the same way as its predecessor, so they must've gotten what they wanted from the nes classic despite the scalpers. Whether that was a small low risk profit or media hype, IDK. So I guess they'll just keep accepting whatever benefit they see in feeding scalpers like this.
One per customer, and a gang of rough cloned Reggies to beat up those that don't follow that rule.
Scalpers too get a lessson from the "Reggie BeatDown Squad!".
dragonyeuw
Member
Your first question was answered in your next sentence. The system is sought after for its value precisely because of Nintendo's handling of supply and distribution.
MHWilliams
Member
Neither really matters in the sneakerhead world. Scalpers are far, far more prepared for this than the average person is.
You're thinking too hard.
It's not just "make more". It's "make more over a longer production run".
The issue with the SNES Classic is Nintendo has (correctly) set the expectation that it will only be be produced for so long and then it's gone. So, the perception is that these pre-orders are far more important. This is entirely Nintendo's issue.
Move the SNES Classic towards something that's produced for longer than the next four months and while the early issues still happen, there's less demand at launch and prices come down as systems become commonplace.
And the extra stock problem is a non-issue, as retailers don't have issues with PS4s or Xbox Ones sitting in stock, because the expectation is they'll be sold. Overstock can be a problem, but to the level of Nintendo's consistent issues? No. The SNES Classic isn't the Wii U and the reception to the NES Classic should have shown them that.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Call me crazy but I think there's an answer between "Make tens of millions of items and end up with a ton of overstock" and "Make enough to satisfy a tiny fraction of demand so that the item sells out in seconds."
Mushroomer25
Member
This would be the answer, in a world without supply constraints.
At some point, building enough to meet demand would require Nintendo to invest in their own production facilities - rather than using existing ones. That dramatically changes the math on profitability.
Marty Chinn
Member
So you don't believe there's a relationship between a company and the retailer? Then explain why digital releases are the same price as physical ones despite the cost difference? It's not bullshit at all that game companies have always had to make sure not to screw over the retailer in the process.
Yep, this is the right way to go about it and I think it's the problem Nintendo made on their own by limiting it for a small window.
But the difference is, those other systems weren't immediately available either because they didn't do some insane over production in the beginning. Sure production was maxed, but they didn't do something that would have had way too many lines going to waste down the road. They produced in a way that made sense over the longer term which made systems scarce up front until things normalized. Once it normalized, it makes it so that stores do have stock, but not a ton on hand but with regular resupplies.
Sure, so tell me what that number is. The problem is finding that answer in the middle isn't as simple as people want to make it out to be.
MHWilliams
Member
Nintendo is so far from the number that this almost no longer works as a counter argument.
There are certainly ways to get closer to the number, as Nintendo and other companies are adept at making estimates for other products.
None of this is outside of the company's scope.
family_guy
Member
Make more, but controversial opinion, maybe these companies secretly employ scalpers. Make limited items, then sell them outside of retail to make larger profits. I'm joking of course, but I wouldn't put it past some people.
Omegasquash
Member
"More" is closer to the number than what we have now.
I grant that we don't know how many are coming, and that Nintendo stated that they'd make significantly more, but that they've been silent on the topic after yesterday - and they know what's going on - isn't exactly an indicator that they're interested in getting closer to demand.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
And? It's not some unsolvable puzzle. Most companies that sell consumer electronics, including Nintendo, are able to find a reasonable match between supply and demand. Nintendo has been doing this for decades. If they wanted to make enough of these to satisfy preorder demand, they would, period. For whatever reason, they are deliberately choosing not to.
MisterHero
Super Member
Last E3's Nintendo thread was called something like "Amiibo Shopping Network" and it was funny. What's even funnier is that such a thing, were it to actually exist, could be nice.
1. Nintendo presents products X y and z
2. Preorders go up right after product presentation. Everyone knows exactly when preorders go up, problem solved. Nintendo also knows how much product to make at a minimum, another problem solved.
3. Keep preorders up for like a month if possible so everyone can have a shot. Take money right away and enforce "No refunds" to prevent people bulk ordering and winding up with wasted inventory. Except if their product is broken of course.
The problem is that Nintendo probably gets pretty good deals having exclusives with varying retailers so they probably don't want to do direct sales. Then maybe the preorder page should have "Preoder with..." and list the retailers so shoppers can choose the store account they want to buy with.
I think it would also be a huge hassle to have immediate preorders for any country that isn't the Big 3. Maybe that's where retailers like Amazon come in.
All in all I wish Nintendo was more transparent with preorders and also they would do direct sales. It's them I want to give my money to, after all.
1. Nintendo presents products X y and z
2. Preorders go up right after product presentation. Everyone knows exactly when preorders go up, problem solved. Nintendo also knows how much product to make at a minimum, another problem solved.
3. Keep preorders up for like a month if possible so everyone can have a shot. Take money right away and enforce "No refunds" to prevent people bulk ordering and winding up with wasted inventory. Except if their product is broken of course.
The problem is that Nintendo probably gets pretty good deals having exclusives with varying retailers so they probably don't want to do direct sales. Then maybe the preorder page should have "Preoder with..." and list the retailers so shoppers can choose the store account they want to buy with.
I think it would also be a huge hassle to have immediate preorders for any country that isn't the Big 3. Maybe that's where retailers like Amazon come in.
All in all I wish Nintendo was more transparent with preorders and also they would do direct sales. It's them I want to give my money to, after all.
Scalping is exacerbated when:
1)There is a hysteria for a product
2)There will be low supply to meet demand
3)There is a precedent that supply will never meet demand.
Nintendo can't control scalpers, that's retail's fight if they feel the need to have it, but they can absolutely curb point 3 by extending production. That creates an environment where scalpers may take a hit as demand is moderated by most rational people having patience, whereas right now people know Nintendo will suddenly pull the rug out from everyone so they have to have it now before it's too late.
Remove the "too late" fear and you dramatically reduce the presence of scalping.
1)There is a hysteria for a product
2)There will be low supply to meet demand
3)There is a precedent that supply will never meet demand.
Nintendo can't control scalpers, that's retail's fight if they feel the need to have it, but they can absolutely curb point 3 by extending production. That creates an environment where scalpers may take a hit as demand is moderated by most rational people having patience, whereas right now people know Nintendo will suddenly pull the rug out from everyone so they have to have it now before it's too late.
Remove the "too late" fear and you dramatically reduce the presence of scalping.
Stallion Dan
Member
They are making and selling a retro product, so it is their business.
Fair = I got one
Unfair = I didn't get one
This will be peoples opinion no matter what.
Producing enough to meet demand is the only thing they can do to make people think things are "fair".
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Tell me with a straight face that releasing only enough preorders that Amazon sold out within 20 seconds was Nintendo's good-faith best effort at matching supply with demand.