• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|

RobbieNick

Junior Member
I think Forces looks fine. The avatar gameplay is the one that has me less excited, but the boss battle shown looked pretty fun.

I just wish Sega would show more than the 2 levels.

I played both the Switch and PS4 avatar levels. The Switch level was an alternate version of Modern Sonic's level and was pretty fun. The "rookie" uses a grappling hook to do homing attacks and reach high places and also uses wisps for both weapons and power-ups like "Burst" and "lightning dash".

The 3-D level was fun on Switch, but the 2-D level on PS4 sucked. The main reason for that is that it required precised platform jumping and currently, the avatar has a horrible jump that's more floaty and awkward than Little Big Planet, making it hard to land precise jumps. They REALLY need to get that fixed or the avatar levels are gonna suck.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
nah, i wish they got the guys from those sonic before/after the sequel fangames ;(

kOS4Yy5.png
 
Got out Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, I'm having a blast with it.

I'm already 27 percent of the way done and I've been playing for only five hours or so.

I don't find it searingly difficult on Class A, but its still challenging but a hell of a lot of fun. I find the specific events (boosting, those fucking stages where you fly through the rings) to be more difficult on higher levels, though I beat a few of the boosting ones and the traffic ones as well.
 

Tizoc

Member
Haven't played it in years, but as a kid it was my favorite of the GG/MS games. Was probably because I just dug Knuckles and Fang being in the game.

The game feels waaaaay too easy too, hardly any platforming challenges like in the first 8-bit game.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Also just remembered:



Guys, it's time to come clean. I've been working on the music for a game where the main character goes fast and begins with S and it's S _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ and it's finally finished.

Spark the Electric Jester's backer build went out yesterday, Steam release this week

I'm a stinker
 
Got out Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, I'm having a blast with it.

I'm already 27 percent of the way done and I've been playing for only five hours or so.

I don't find it searingly difficult on Class A, but its still challenging but a hell of a lot of fun. I find the specific events (boosting, those fucking stages where you fly through the rings) to be more difficult on higher levels, though I beat a few of the boosting ones and the traffic ones as well.

The career mode is a great time, I often wish I could wipe my skillset clean and play it through fresh again.

Then I'm reminded of how middle-of-the-road I actually am at this game and promise to practice at a later date that never comes.
 

Psxphile

Member
So apparently I can burn the music from Sonic 3D Blast onto my computer...from the game itself.

Holy shit.

Redbook audio. When you absolutely positively need to fill every megabyte on a disc... accept no substitutes.

There were quite the number of 4th and 5th generation CD-ROM games that let you listen AND rip music tracks right off the disc.
 
Redbook audio. When you absolutely positively need to fill every megabyte on a disc... accept no substitutes.

There were quite the number of 4th and 5th generation CD-ROM games that let you listen AND rip music tracks right off the disc.

Its fucking great. If only I was smart enough to get Nights and Sonic R for Saturn when I was a kid.

ANyway, have anyone else here ever attempted to make a top 20....or 50....or 100 (!!!!!) favorite Sonic songs...ranked? I'm going to attempt that.
 
Most of NiGHTS' music isn't Redbook. A handful of tracks are, but mainly vocal tracks and menu music.

That's because NiGHTS actually has a special in-game music feature. The Nightopians (the little cherub guys flying around levels) are actually an artificial life simulation and if you accidentally kill too many of them it will adversely effect the mood of the entire colony.

The Nightopians' overall mood effects how the music is for that leg of the stage. If they're happy, the music is bright and upbeat, but if they're sad, the music changes key to a slightly moodier tone. All in all, there are five mood variants (very sad, sad, normal, happy, very happy) for each of the four "tracks" in each level. In a single level, that's something like 2500 possible musical combinations per level (though given how bad I am at math, maybe it's less).

This Youtube video runs through each of the five mood variants for Spring Valley.

This dynamic music mixing happens on the fly as you play, which would be impossible to do with Redbook CD audio, so most of NiGHTS' music is MIDI.

If my memory serves, the CD audio tracks are boss music, the 2p battle music, game over jingle, the credits music, and the menu music.
 
Ah, I see. I'm not too familiar with WHY it let me do that, but that's still interesting. I don't own Nights anyway and I don't even play my Saturn, so if I want the Nights soundtrack I can just buy it off iTunes.
 

Psxphile

Member
Yeah, the biggest knock against redbook was that it couldn't be interacted with. It spools off the CD when needed, plays and then ends or restarts from the beginning, like a typical CD music track. The reason Sonic CD forewent the iconic Speed Shoes musical speed-up and just replaced the zone music with a different track when the power-up was activated was because more than half of the game's audio was in redbook (just about everything but the Past tracks were CD audio on Sega CD) and it couldn't be done the way Sonic 1 through 3 did it.

The trade-off was richer sound that wasn't hampered by the Genny's FM synth chip. Now I expect Falk or someone to come in and "actually" my ass into oblivion but that's how I understood it worked.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Best music.

edit:

uh... I guess it's kinda dangerous for me to opine on Sonic soundtracks now.

But yeah, best music. Come at me.

Now I expect Falk or someone to come in and "actually" my ass into oblivion but that's how I understood it worked.

This is pretty spot on. Other Sonic games have had other workarounds, such as Generations having stage-specific Speed Shoes that triggers upon powerup and then goes back into a certain point on the main track when it ends.

S1 and 2 remasters work with streamed audio, but from what I understand programmatically jump between two pre-baked audio streams with a very specific algorithmic calculation that maintains its place within the track. It works since the music is 'simple' enough that you're not gonna get artifacts like jumping/glitching verb or percussion tails, etc.
 

Sciz

Member
My favorite Stupid Redbook Audio Fact is Symphony of the Night chiding you for trying to listen to the data track, then playing a hidden track anyway.

YThe reason Sonic CD forewent the iconic Speed Shoes musical speed-up and just replaced the zone music with a different track when the power-up was activated was because more than half of the game's audio was in redbook (just about everything but the Past tracks were CD audio on Sega CD) and it couldn't be done the way Sonic 1 through 3 did it.

This is also the reason why the US version couldn't swap out the Past tracks, for anyone who hadn't made the connection.

S1 and 2 remasters work with streamed audio, but from what I understand programmatically jump between two pre-baked audio streams with a very specific algorithmic calculation that maintains its place within the track. It works since the music is 'simple' enough that you're not gonna get artifacts like jumping/glitching verb or percussion tails, etc.

So here's a question for you: Is Mania using a distinct track for speed shoes for technical or stylistic reasons? Because I could see arguments for either one.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
So here's a question for you: Is Mania using a distinct track for speed shoes for technical or stylistic reasons? Because I could see arguments for either one.

I can't answer anything manier related till the game is out. You could try tweeting Sonic twitter.
 
What's the best ver. of Sonic 3D Blast again? The Saturn ver. right?
It's the version I'd put my money on as "best version", yeah.

Though if you have an older computer (or don't mind playing with DxWindower or whatever the software is called to stop it from crashing immediately on newer hardware), the old PC version isn't too bad either. It's missing a few effects from the Saturn version (related to fog, mostly), and its special stages are different as well (so it's a unique set for each version of the game!), but on the plus side, it saves your progress through the game, which can make it a lot less of a chore to work your way through. Also, it defines the game's name to be Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island when you minimize the program, which as far as I care is the canonical title for the game; instead of picking one variant or the other, it's both at the same time. Works for me!

Of course, the Genesis version is the most readily available due to the multitudes of compilations put out there since the early 2000s, but despite having a pretty good soundtrack (at least, the parts Tatsuyuki Maeda contributed to; Jun Senoue's contributions, outside of Green Grove, Panic Puppet and the boss themes, are a bit lacking in comparison), I'd say it's the least appealing way to play the game in this day and age. In the end, the Saturn version's just much nicer to look at, with more detail and a deeper blue for Sonic himself (as opposed to that off-cyan he has in the Genesis version), and I kinda prefer its soundtrack overall as well.

If my memory serves, the CD audio tracks are boss music, the 2p battle music, game over jingle, the credits music, and the menu music.
IIRC:


Also, Christ, I forgot how magical this game's soundtrack is. I love the reverb on, like, everything.
 

TheOGB

Banned
You know, I've always wondered why the standard speed act 2 has really slow music, and then the stand-on-a-slow-moving-platform-dodging-slow-moving-things has incredibly fast music.
They really did have that all the way backwards, lol
 
You know, I've always wondered why the standard speed act 2 has really slow music, and then the stand-on-a-slow-moving-platform-dodging-slow-moving-things has incredibly fast music.

Also, we really need an obscure-titles-only version of mania or generations so the advanced series can get their due.

I remember hating that part as a kid. It's probably been 6 or 7 years since I gave Sonic Advance 2 or 3 a proper playthrough. I quite liked Advance 3 but I've heard plenty of people deride it in the past few years due to supposedly bad level design.
 

Tizoc

Member
So
Do I want to get Sonic 4 ep. 1+2 so I can play it and give it proper judgement?
I can get both for $5 during this steam sale.
 
Just spitballing, but does anyone else suspect Forces featured Boom Sonic, but got retooled after the Boom hit the fan? The grappling hook mechanics kind of match Boom's Ener-beam tethers.

On the plus side, the show seems to have gotten better. At this point it's pretty much Sonic Twitter: The Cartoon.
 
I think that's what a lot of people suspect about it since it definitely fits.

FWIW if that was the case during early planning/development then I'm satisfied with how they flipped it, if only because it proves that Sonic Team is in fact comprised of madmen.
 

Sciz

Member
I'm more inclined to think that they just took the grappling beam concept and ran with it. Sonic Team hasn't ever seemed to want to have anything to do with Boom beyond what they're required to do to manage the IP as a whole.
 
Welp got both games for GBP 3, expect my LTTP thread to go up in ooooooooooh a week's time (working through a backlog here ya know!)

I'll have to refresh myself on them myself, I remember 2 being better as a whole BUT the Tails mechanics and bosses were incredibly ill advised.
 

RK128

Member
Just spitballing, but does anyone else suspect Forces featured Boom Sonic, but got retooled after the Boom hit the fan? The grappling hook mechanics kind of match Boom's Ener-beam tethers.

On the plus side, the show seems to have gotten better. At this point it's pretty much Sonic Twitter: The Cartoon.

I think that was originally the case too, as Boom Sonic would have been a 'natural' fit for the Wispons. In the Boom Wii U Game, the characters could use various weapons as 'power-ups' during combat, so Boom Sonic using a flamethrower or a lightning whip wouldn't be THAT shocking.

But with how they 'flipped' things, I say it was for the best. It allows the custom character to mirror Sonic (having set-piece moments with the grappling hook and using the homing attack) while also doing unique things (mainly the Wispons).

It also shows how reactionary they are the community. They knew many hated the Boom-verse (critics and the Japanese fan-base most likely) so they scrapped using Boom Sonic in favor for doing something that will make everyone happy (your own original character).
 

Village

Member
I don't think game development happens that fast, and I don't think its that convenient. Because there are quite a few folks, who given classic sonic has a game... aren't really fond of classic sonic's appearance, and some folks kinda like " i would rather just be able to play as tails than an oC".When you are designing games,even CGI animated features it takes years to create, so most of the time you need to be thinking years ahead of the curve as far as trends are concerned. I don't think its that convenient, I also think they wanted to do this for years. And they used the tride and true sega stragtegy of instead of focusing on a new idea, and perfecting that idea in a single game, throw it in with a bunch of other game play styles that don't fit and they are all less than great.

( oh hey, the classic sections and OC sections of forces don't look great, and have been descriptive to be rather floaty and slow and the level design isn't the best. If only there were a sonic game that focused on one thing. Oh there is, and its sonic mania and it looks fucking amazing. Ohnoo)

Back to my point, I don't think it was " this used to be boom sonic" situation, I think they wanted to do this for a while, and did it. And I think boom sonic was never planned to be in there in the first place, I think the massive disdain for boom as a product was a " bonus" for lack of a better term. I also don't think boom sonic was ever a choice because of how sonic team of japan operates. They kind of don't take much , unless they made it themselves. The only thing they designed for sonic boom, was sticks. And the only one the Japanese side uses in stuff, is sticks. And outside of like , sonic channel drawings of boom sonic, that's it. They take the stuff they did themselves, or they take the one thing that they like. Like shadow's inhibitor ring concept.

As the sonic boom concept art proved they are very... reserved on what their view of sonic is. And even though they are apart of a larger company that can use the brand , they themselves don't really have to acknowledge or care about it.

Its like the comics, ( which is one of the reasons why I get a bit scared every time this thread pops up, I think the comics death announcement finally happened) , if they do end. They will probably take like the one or two things they like ( my guess being eclipse, and the eggboss concept) and then the rest of those characters will never see the light of day again and will live with cosmo and her plant people in the basement.
 

RK128

Member
I don't think game development happens that fast, and I don't think its that convenient. Because there are quite a few folks, who given classic sonic has a game... aren't really fond of classic sonic's appearance, and some folks kinda like " i would rather just be able to play as tails than an oC".When you are designing games,even CGI animated features it takes years to create, so most of the time you need to be thinking years ahead of the curve as far as trends are concerned. I don't think its that convenient, I also think they wanted to do this for years. And they used the tride and true sega stragtegy of instead of focusing on a new idea, and perfecting that idea in a single game, throw it in with a bunch of other game play styles that don't fit and they are all less than great.

( oh hey, the classic sections and OC sections of forces don't look great, and have been descriptive to be rather floaty and slow and the level design isn't the best. If only there were a sonic game that focused on one thing. Oh there is, and its sonic mania and it looks fucking amazing. Ohnoo)

Back to my point, I don't think it was " this used to be boom sonic" situation, I think they wanted to do this for a while, and did it. And I think boom sonic was never planned to be in there in the first place, I think the massive disdain for boom as a product was a " bonus" for lack of a better term. I also don't think boom sonic was ever a choice because of how sonic team of japan operates. They kind of don't take much , unless they made it themselves. The only thing they designed for sonic boom, was sticks. And the only one the Japanese side uses in stuff, is sticks. And outside of like , sonic channel drawings of boom sonic, that's it. They take the stuff they did themselves, or they take the one thing that they like. Like shadow's inhibitor ring concept.

As the sonic boom concept art proved they are very... reserved on what their view of sonic is. And even though they are apart of a larger company that can use the brand , they themselves don't really have to acknowledge or care about it.

Its like the comics, ( which is one of the reasons why I get a bit scared every time this thread pops up, I think the comics death announcement finally happened) , if they do end. They will probably take like the one or two things they like ( my guess being eclipse, and the eggboss concept) and then the rest of those characters will never see the light of day again and will live with cosmo and her plant people in the basement.

I didn't mean to scare you Village :(. I'm sorry...though Archie should REALLY have an answer for this by now.
 

Tizoc

Member
OK why in the BLUE HELL is Sonic so sluggish in Sonic 4? Seriously, just stand still and just TAP forward or back and he'll barely move an inch, and when he starts accelarating it is friggin' slow. What the heck were they on when they were making this game?
...and why are stages so bloody long? Like from 1-2 onwards, each stage was like 5 minutes long.

I'm already half way through and am hoping to beat this by tomorrow and uninstall it from my lappy.
 
Sonic's momentum (lol Sonic 4 momentum) in Sonic 4 is so damn sluggish it's effectively better to just use the failed homing attack to gain speed while the spindash is a piece of junk.
Ep 2 is a little bit better on the control front but not enough.

Don't forget episode metal which answers the burning questions Sonic GAF all had back at the time between ep 1 and 2 like "what was Eggman doing in the labyrinth?!"
 
Sonic's momentum (lol Sonic 4 momentum) in Sonic 4 is so damn sluggish it's effectively better to just use the failed homing attack to gain speed while the spindash is a piece of junk.
Ep 2 is a little bit better on the control front but not enough.

Don't forget episode metal which answers the burning questions Sonic GAF all had back at the time between ep 1 and 2 like "what was Eggman doing in the labyrinth?!"

but why did he build mad gear zone

why dammit
 

Anth0ny

Member
OK why in the BLUE HELL is Sonic so sluggish in Sonic 4? Seriously, just stand still and just TAP forward or back and he'll barely move an inch, and when he starts accelarating it is friggin' slow. What the heck were they on when they were making this game?
...and why are stages so bloody long? Like from 1-2 onwards, each stage was like 5 minutes long.

I'm already half way through and am hoping to beat this by tomorrow and uninstall it from my lappy.

they pretty much had no idea what they were doing with Sonic 4.


They seem to be righting their wrongs with Mania. The true Sonic 4.
 

Village

Member
they pretty much had no idea what they were doing with Sonic 4.


They seem to be righting their wrongs with Mania. The true Sonic 4.

Well the crew working on sonic mania, seems to be righting those wrongs. Classic sonic in forces... still kinda looks they have no idea what they are doing. It does not look any better than generations, and the level design looks worse.

Mania looks dope. True sonic 4. wish they hadn't nammed sonic 4, sonic 4
 
Top Bottom