Huh, hadn't considered that but it seems like the simple answer.
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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
Huh, hadn't considered that but it seems like the simple answer.
I'm no sci-if writer, but I'm having a hard time figuring out a way 343 could ditch this terrible story and these terrible enemies in time for Halo6. If they are gonna go, they'll go together of course.
On another note, I'm actually having a hard time understanding how they explain the good guys being about to compete with Cortana and crew. In one of the Kilo-5 books, Black Box mentioned that If AI were in charge, they'd be able to end all conflict within a fraction of a second. Well now we have AI running the show, with control of essentially all comms, logistics, and resources. I foresee some dumbass Mcguffin or Deus Ex Machina coming along to even the playing field
2 Pre-Made Teams searching each other and farming Marine kills and only Marine kills.
Shouldn't a higher polling rate lead to more precision regarding this?
Wouldn't Doubling the number of polls required to register a "held button" in Reach result in H5 having the same response time?
This idea just seems backwards. In Reach/4 they should have erred on the side of 'not held', since they lacked the precision to tell exactly what people wanted. If they were wrong, they wouldn't be disadvantaging the player. Assassinations should have required a more clearly deliberate input from the user.
at 60fps, it should be easier to tell what the user wants without requiring a longer input.
I don't know man, Just hope they go away.
H5 are the only halo campaign I've never touched after I've finishing it.
Half way through I said to myself; god, when will this end.
H4 was better, but not by much.
The whole directions is just wrong Imo and very boring.
What made past halo great and memorable are several things. And most of them are not in 343i Halo.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
It is backwards, 60 fps should cut any kind of input lag in half/almost half.
BizzyBum
Member
Did we even have 24 people at a time to do this? lol
That 12 man playlist will come back eventually and we can try it then but no way we can have enough people on at a time.
Didn't he die in one of the comics?
Samurai G0SU
Member
whoever wants a vday pack, send me a message on XBL. i have everything unlocked (except the purchasable classic helms) so idc if i get one.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I'll gift my Valentine's pack to the person who types the most impressive 7 paragraphs, and no less than 700 words, about why Mk. V needs to be in Halo 6 on day one.
That would be an other problem, yeah.
BizzyBum
Member
Splyce skins incoming!
I think they'll look pretty slick.
Still, sad we're missing out on those Cloud9 skins
I'd like it if Mk V and VI were locked behind MCC or Halo career achievements, personally, or at least those gave you the instant unlock versus grinding out the rest of the REQs.
Got my 50 marine kills for the day. Some brutal warzone games, though.
Because it is Mark V. (Copy-paste this until you have 7 100 word paragraphs. I don't think there needs to be any other reason.)
link1201
Member
FYI: The classic helmet pack is only available for another week. 
https://twitter.com/Halo/status/831612550705852416
https://twitter.com/Halo/status/831612550705852416
BizzyBum
Member
FYI: The classic helmet pack is only available for another week.
https://twitter.com/Halo/status/831612550705852416
When is the timmy helmet gone?
I keep forgetting to grind that out.
FYI: The classic helmet pack is only available for another week.
https://twitter.com/Halo/status/831612550705852416
Eep. Guess I gotta grind my remaining 50K sooner rather than later.
FYI: The classic helmet pack is only available for another week.
https://twitter.com/Halo/status/831612550705852416
No h3 Rogue Helmet, no buy.
March 31st.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Nice, I'll try this next time I get on.
Fuchs was first, but if he doesn't need it, I'll gladly gift to you.
Would they add helmets to be unlockable at a later time or no? Would be stupid to make it such a short time only for some of the most classic and popular helmets. We were promised nothing would be paywalled behind REQ's and purchases but slowly the voice pack, things like HCS Skins and team skins and now helmet pack and Achilles are being unattainable altogether unless you paid or grinded ridiculously to get them.
I could really use the RP I saved up to just buy gold packs and spend another $10 on this damn game. Will be almost $117 in terms of money spent on REQ's.
I could really use the RP I saved up to just buy gold packs and spend another $10 on this damn game. Will be almost $117 in terms of money spent on REQ's.
Eh, wasn't competing for the pack, just sounding off my thoughts. He can have it.
Been meaning to write a master post about REQ and unlocks at some point.
I assume they'll add them to the general unlock pool. You just won't be able to spend hard money or RP to buy them all directly.
Also, if anyone wants my Valentine's pack, sound off.
Not exactly, due to being able to input halfway or right on a poll. It's not exactly cut and dry raw frames because there's also software latency to handle the "reload" button being multiple purpose, which codepath would be re-used for melee vs assassination. For instance, if you started a player reload right when the button is pressed (shortest latency), you would reload before you activate a button or get in a vehicle or picked up an objective, which is what players usually do not want, so you have to wait a moment to see if they held. For assassinations, this means detecting the melee input, then waiting a moment to see if they wanted to just smack or assassinate.
let's look at a crude representation of controller button samples, assuming a straight doubling due to a 30->60fps change. The only polls that detect a button press are where the player held it when the poll started.
So Reach/4 has to make a decision - a long press in Reach/4 can't be detected as unpressed until later on, so you try to read the player intent and assume after a minimum amount of time the player intends to keep holding and have the client send "HOST, I WANT TO DO THE FANCY KILL". 5 knows it'll be unpressed soon, so the client goes "I already see it unpressed, so just do a normal back whack". Also, latency and the host vetoing an assassination input and turning it into a normal backwhack (Reach/4 do it when you get into certain situations, I assume 5 has similar logic) also come into play.
tl;dr
halo 5 polls faster, resulting in what the engine in 4/Reach recognized as a long press as being one frame too short to count in 5, because reusing a button requires software prediction and assumptions.
tl;dr;pt2
I reduced the frames polled just to make it easier to parse/read for this example. I don't know actually how many frames they sample,
ps.
this also assumes they didn't tweak the give time for halo 5, which I assume they did, exactly because people felt it was too easy to do in Reach/4 by accident.
pss
just to cover all my bases, the controller also likely ignores a too-short input (player brushing the button by accident, ala Anti-Clench that's in Reach/4/5) meaning the extra poll it sees at the start doesn't really get 'read'.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
It wasn't a real competition, so I was just going with the first person who quoted lol. Only a mad man would consider typing that..
..a mad man with an injured hand. I'll send it to you if you want it.
If Karl doesn't want it, I'll just give it to the first person that calls dibs.
That font only works with the word Halo.
YourExWife
Member
Of course, the real issue is why detect a release when the button is still held down, which is definitely still a problem. I have a feeling the reason we sometimes don't get the animation is because of geometry not being favorable to the execution, so it does the next-best thing and just does the normal melee. This happens even if you never release the melee button. Perhaps defaulting to normal melee is a result of poor server selection and/or packet drops as well.
EDIT: This isn't even getting into the multiple logic pathways when you're airborne and ground pounds come into play.
yeah, that would the host vetoing thing i mentioned. They probably really don't want people ending up in weird spots because they got saved from an assassination in unfavorable geometry conditions.
For what it's worth, this is also why in perfect conditions assassination is more consistent in Reach/4 campaign co-op and Firefight, because it's just reading and passing the buttons around. There's less shenanigans that have to occur to make "player interacts directly with another player physically" for async (4/Reach MP, Halo 5 pretty much everywhere) because in async people are never actually physically all in the same spot on everyone's box in a frame, where they -are- in lockstep.
Yeah, all the possible choice branches makes it more complicated than "detect for x frames" for sure. This is why devs really don't tend to update controls after launch because holy hell you can break shit real fast with minimal work once it's live.
Not exactly, due to being able to input halfway or right on a poll. It's not exactly cut and dry raw frames because there's also software latency to handle the "reload" button being multiple purpose, which codepath would be re-used for melee vs assassination. For instance, if you started a player reload right when the button is pressed (shortest latency), you would reload before you activate a button or get in a vehicle or picked up an objective, which is what players usually do not want, so you have to wait a moment to see if they held. For assassinations, this means detecting the melee input, then waiting a moment to see if they wanted to just smack or assassinate.
let's look at a crude representation of controller button samples, assuming a straight doubling due to a 30->60fps change. The only polls that detect a button press are where the player held it when the poll started.
So Reach/4 has to make a decision - a long press in Reach/4 can't be detected as unpressed until later on, so you try to read the player intent and assume after a minimum amount of time the player intends to keep holding and have the client send "HOST, I WANT TO DO THE FANCY KILL". 5 knows it'll be unpressed soon, so the client goes "I already see it unpressed, so just do a normal back whack". Also, latency and the host vetoing an assassination input and turning it into a normal backwhack (Reach/4 do it when you get into certain situations, I assume 5 has similar logic) also come into play.
tl;dr
halo 5 polls faster, resulting in what the engine in 4/Reach recognized as a long press as being one frame too short to count in 5, because reusing a button requires software prediction and assumptions.
tl;dr;pt2
I reduced the frames polled just to make it easier to parse/read for this example. I don't know actually how many frames they sample,
ps.
this also assumes they didn't tweak the give time for halo 5, which I assume they did, exactly because people felt it was too easy to do in Reach/4 by accident.
pss
just to cover all my bases, the controller also likely ignores a too-short input (player brushing the button by accident, ala Anti-Clench that's in Reach/4/5) meaning the extra poll it sees at the start doesn't really get 'read'.
Thanks for the info, but I still don't get it.
Halo 5 recognizes SOONER that the button was being pressed, and is at worst, no wiser, as to wether or not I let go mid poll, prior to determining the appropriate animations
The faster the poll, they more confident they can be that the input has been held over time vs toggled. And the sooner they can make that determination. So I see less reason to err on the side of backsmack.
They SHOULD have been doing that in previous games, and perhaps they are overcompensating now, despite having more precise data.
What makes his frustrating for me though, is I never let go of the melee button. I hold it for what seems like eons, and the animation begins and it's a backsmack.
ATOMICJORGE
Member
In my opinion the soundtracks of Halo Combat Evolved and Halo 3: ODST are the best in the franchise
Triscuitable
Member
And that right there is the single biggest problem with the Halo canon. Bungie's games could at least be understood without knowing about the expanded canon (though for anyone who never read a book, Chief not being the last Spartan might come as a shock), but 343i's rely so much on the expanded universe to tell the story that it completely overrules the games.
The story of the games should come first, always. With Halo 5, they did not. And that's just one reason as to why I think the "Reclaimer Saga" is unsalvagable garbage. Halo 4 was a good start, but every step after that (starting with Spartan Ops and quickly spiraling out of control afterwards) took the story in a more convoluted, overcomplicated direction. Halo stopped being Halo and started being 343i's image of Halo around the time the Dark Horse comics started coming out. There were brief glimpses of potential during this period of bungled worldbuilding, like Tanaka's backstory, but the fact that Halo 5 simultaneously ignored so much of the EU and yet assumed you knew so much completely threw me for a loop.
Agreed. Reach's is also phenomenal. Great at setting the tone the writers and artists wanted the game to have, even if the game itself doesn't really match that tone in its gameplay.
I understood that reference
Samurai G0SU
Member
^ the ending of halo 4 spartan ops pissed me off.
O rly throw it into the sun! Bye sphere world.
O rly throw it into the sun! Bye sphere world.
They are...?
I just won a one vs two match in doubles.My teammate left right at the start of the match. I was in the lead for almost the entire match besides a few minutes in the middle of the match. I wonder how the players I beat feel about their loss.
I intercepted a voice chat, which is transcribed below:
Player1: "fucking lag!"
Player2: "yup, bullshit. Fix your shit 353"
The funny thing is at the end of the match I could hear one of the players on the team reacting to the loss. They must have been really shocked.I actually expected to get crushed by that team. I stayed in the corner of the map a lot during the match.
Will the Thrill
Banned
FYI: The classic helmet pack is only available for another week.
https://twitter.com/Halo/status/831612550705852416
In what way is this a good idea?
FYI: The classic helmet pack is only available for another week.
https://twitter.com/Halo/status/831612550705852416
wtf? This is like the worst week for me to get any playtime; I'm going to have to go HARD on Warzone Firefight Saturday night and Monday.
Wait the customs helmet is going away too? What is this shit?
Yerrroooo. I'll take any and all unwanted V-Day packs, lol. I need the REQ points
User 73706
Banned
In layman's terms, the 60fps bump means that there are twice as many "passes" as there were before. Provided the window for assassinations was identical in Halo 5 as it was in Reach / 4, you would have to hold the button for twice as long for it to count.
Like Fyre mentioned, though, there's probably additional complications going on that could screw you out of an assassination, such as not triggering if the geometry surrounding you is unfavorable. Halo 5 has a ton of unique animations featuring two realtime players in multiple positions, and if someone kills a member of that assassination early there's a lot of potential for things to go wrong unless you're on a flat surface.
Additionally, there may be more checks and balances we aren't aware of - like, in addition to requiring the button to be held down, it could also require the enemy's back to still be turned to the player for each of the assassination passes instead of just the first, meaning if they aim just off enough it could reject the conditions for an assassination.
The bolded just can't be right. I'm actually an EE and work in signaling and can say with certainty doubling the polling frequency wouldn't double response time. It would double the amount of data polled within a fixed amount of time and half the amount of time it would take to acquire a fixed amount of data.
With the precision of 60fps, there's no related reason 343, couldn't actually shorten the amount of 'hold time' (in comparison to reach/4) while still providing a more reliable experience than reach/4.
They are getting data more frequently, and thus should be able to make better interpretations more quickly.
*unless there are other factors that contribute to unreliability beyond h5s frame rate.