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Pureauthor
(05-16-2017, 07:14 PM)
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If nothing else, their treatment of talent on Dota 2 has been a black mark on their record for some time now.
K' Dash
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:14 PM)
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I'll be the first one to shit on Polygon on every chance I have, but this is a good article.
NOLA_Gaffer
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:15 PM)
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I've never understood those "Gabe Newell as Jesus" images.

The guy's a businessman. He doesn't care about you, he just wants your money.
Bits N Pieces
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:15 PM)
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Tim Sweeney was right!
Maintenance
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by joeblow

I have infinitely more trust in Valve/Steam than I do in Polygon.

Yep. Steam/Valve is far from being a saint, but compared to Polygon they are Mother Theresa.

Originally Posted by JayEH

No corporation is your friend.

And also this.
trailmix16
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:15 PM)
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the authors site is pretty good

Iím Sliding Feet-First Into A Woodchipper. The Woodchipper Has The Star Wars Logo On It. Hereís Why Thatís A Good Thing
http://www.pointandclickbait.com/201...ally-its-good/
Lelou
Junior Member
(05-16-2017, 07:15 PM)
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It's not my friend or my family.
Is just my home, good or bad, it was always here and it will be..
Sini
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

Freaking finally someone writes an article about this.

Yeah, it has been frustrating seeing no-one who has large audience care about this.
VLQ
Junior Member
(05-16-2017, 07:15 PM)
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Don't talk shit about my friends, Polygon
StereoVsn
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:16 PM)
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So here is a question. What other platform offers workshop capabilities at all? The answer is none. Certainly treatment of creators is not good, but until GoG or Origin integrate workshop like capabilities Steam will be the only game in town.

Let's not even mention MS, which is a whole lot worse then Dteam for customers, or uPlay which is buggy and has terrible selection.
jooey
The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
(05-16-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by PositronicMan

Corporations aren't your friend, and neither are "journalism" sites driven by click-bait practices.

is there like some hidden message in these articles that say the opposite? Do I have to dip it in water to see "WE LOVE YOU PLEASE READ US?" or is this just drive-by shit?
Dinky Dino
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Genuinely curious have they written up an article about how paid online is bad for consumers?
Delusibeta
Junior Member
(05-16-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by m_dorian

I am not going to click but tell me, is it Ben Kuchera?

No, it's the guy behind Point & Clickbait. Which, frankly, is obvious after reading this heap of conspiracy theory bullshit.
Acorn
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ahasverus

The alternatives are Origin, Microsoft and Uplay.

Steam is the best Monopoly we could wish for given the other actors.

No monopoly is a good monopoly.


Well ok natural state monopolies can be good (and bad).
Polk
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Maintenance

Yep. Steam/Valve is far from being a saint, but compared to Polygon they are Mother Theresa.

You know how shitty person was Mother Theresa, right?
jaxpunk
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by joeblow

I have infinitely more trust in Valve/Steam than I do in Polygon.

This x100.
Massicot
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kilau

What? No.

I don't really understand that lede either
TVexperto
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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I still remember 10 years ago when people already had those fears about steam becoming a monopoly and people were pissing on origin and uplay for having some competition, I wonder what they are saying now
Whompa02
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Steam is essential for videogames and companies to thrive.

Polygon is not.
Inferno313
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Guys, we get it. You don't like Polygon. Why not respond to the content of the article instead of drive-by shitposting because your best corporate friend took some criticism.
NoblesseOblige
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by jooey

is there like some hidden message in these articles that say the opposite? Do I have to dip it in water to see "WE LOVE YOU PLEASE READ US?" or is this just drive-by shit?

Going by the whole 0.33PPD it looks like another drive-by with a hate boner for a website.
Yohane
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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No corporation is your friend news at 11
Human Trashcan
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(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by PositronicMan

Corporations aren't your friend, and neither are "journalism" sites driven by click-bait practices.

Did you actually read the piece? Because it's not that unless you consider every single article ever written to be clickbait. This is a no-win scenario you set up. Corporations? Not your friend. Filthy journalists? Also not your friend. Now you can carry on without having to question any part of your life, no matter how minor.

Amazing to me how many people will disregard this because it's on a site they don't like, as if Polygon is even close to being on the same level as Steam in terms of malpractice. Or because they just can't handle cognitive dissonance. "I use Steam, but Steam is bad... would that make me... bad?" No, it doesn't. There is no ethical consumption under late capitalism. Understanding the situation doesn't hurt you though.

Originally Posted by Maintenance

Yep. Steam/Valve is far from being a saint, but compared to Polygon they are Mother Theresa.

Like, what the fuck. Company exploiting their users/laborers are better than Polygon? No perspective whatsoever
DOBERMAN INC
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Breaking news from Polygon.

No company is your friend, doesn't mean I should stop buying from them, it just means you have to be aware when making purchasing decisions.
Admodieus
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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There's hyperbole here but the main point is valid - people have an almost religious attachment to Valve and Steam, to the point where it hinders rational assessment of the alternatives.

I get the desire to have all your friends and games in one place, but Origin has become a pretty good client by itself these days. GOG is pretty good and I don't have any issues with the Windows Store for my Play Anywhere titles. I don't spend a lot of time in uPlay because I don't play many Ubi Soft games.

As long as the game is available on PC and I can redownload it each of my machines and sync my saves back and forth, I'm good. Every client seems to do that these days.
Gator86
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by JayEH

No corporation is your friend.

Not really sure why the article is longer than this.
Zero-ELEC
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by orava

We listening polygon now? I though it was pretty much banned as a source here.

Umm, no? Polygon is fairly reputable when they're not shitposting. Their longform stuff is actually really darned good.
Stevey
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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I mean normally I'd agree that monopolies are a bad concept.
But I love Valve/STEAM.
Guess Who
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Guys, we get it. You don't like Polygon. Why not respond to the content of the article instead of drive-by shitposting because your best corporate friend took some criticism.

If anything, some of these posts are really exemplifying just how deep and irrational Valve loyalism runs.
Maintenance
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Polk

You know how shitty person was Mother Theresa, right?

Wrong comparison then, that's what I get for knowing shit about religion.
Abilidebob
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:19 PM)
The "recent" treatment of workshop creators has been a really bad mark for Valve, no doubt about it.
Some of the legal stuff they've been involved also doesn't paint them in a good light, at all.

But the rest of the article is so goddamn hyperbolic that even when the author made good points I was rolling my eyes because I could taste the stupid of the writing.
Last edited by Abilidebob; 05-16-2017 at 07:26 PM.
tkscz
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by orava

We listening polygon now? I though it was pretty much banned as a source here.

It's an opinion piece which we can post those. Can't be used as a reputable source for information though.
ieptbarakat
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lelou

It's not my friend or my family.
Is just my home, good or bad, it was always here and it will be..

Yup, I'm not moving away from it anytime soon. Steam has pretty much integrated itself into my life through the services I use, the games I play, and the friends I communicate with.
Lupercal
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:20 PM)
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Man Polygon sure cranks out shitty articles are an astonishing rate.
Hamster Plugin
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:20 PM)
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The beauty of Steam is that they give game publishers and developers the ability to generate keys, so you don't need to buy expensive games from the Steam Store itself. There are cheaper ways.

I love that I always have a digital download copy of a game no matter where I buy it from, even if it's retail. I wish it was like that on consoles as well.
capylikesgames
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:20 PM)
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They're definitely not wrong, but Valve is also the only company providing an HTPC-friendly environment for people who play games on PC. Not to mention their hardware make them more than just a storefront; the Steam Link is generally well-received, and though the Steam Controller is niche, it has a community behind it, and some incredible ideas that don't deserve to fade into obscurity. To some, they're not just a convenient place to hold your library. It might sound like I'm glorifying them here, but I really don't see them like that. If there were alternatives, I'd use them, and I try to buy from places like GOG when I can. For some of us, the idea of breaking away really isn't that simple.
Inferno313
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Guess Who

If anything, some of these posts are really exemplifying just how deep and irrational Valve loyalism runs.

n-not my dear gaben
hydrophilic attack
Banned
(05-16-2017, 07:20 PM)
The article spends way too much time on incendiary and provocative language. It actually starts making a case halfway through, and at that point supports it pretty well. But by then, many readers will have already dismissed it. I feel like the writer should have cut the fat to make a stronger case
Human Trashcan
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(05-16-2017, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Whompa02

Steam is essential for videogames and companies to thrive.

Polygon is not.

Videogames would survive just fine without Steam. You haven't even read the article.
MarmiteBadger
Junior Member
(05-16-2017, 07:21 PM)
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I haven't bought a game on Steam in awhile. If I can buy it on GoG, I buy it from them.

If game developers offer the game directly from their website (i.e. Runic Games with Torchlight 2), I buy it directly from the developer.
NoblesseOblige
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Guys, we get it. You don't like Polygon. Why not respond to the content of the article instead of drive-by shitposting because your best corporate friend took some criticism.

Posting in a thread to basically just say they're not going to read the OP should be some type of offense to be honest.
jrh2
Banned
(05-16-2017, 07:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Inferno313

Guys, we get it. You don't like Polygon. Why not respond to the content of the article instead of drive-by shitposting because your best corporate friend took some criticism.

Didn't you hear? Polygon made a Bad Pie Chart that one time.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
(05-16-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by tomhan

That's not true at all. Valve is a for profit corporation that is trying to make as much profit as possible. The fact that they don't answer to shareholders makes them have to publicly disclose much less than companies with shareholders and that may actually make them more dangerous.

Disagree. They don't have a fiduciary duty to try to make as much money as possible as every public company does. Of course they're trying to make a profit, you're acting like being a for-profit company is an inherently bad thing.

Most of the shit I own on Steam I bought elsewhere for cheaper, idled it for card money which I then used that for Steam purchases. I can't think of another company which would allow such an arrangement.
VisceralBowl
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Succinct Verbosity

Origin is pretty good as a platform.

except the client is awful.

Friends list, library, and messages have to load and take forever.
The invite and join buttons break constantly which makes playing with friends annoying.
On top of that the ingame UI causes HORRIBLE hitching. Even with it disabled, the notifications that get sent to desktop still cause problems.
Last edited by VisceralBowl; 05-17-2017 at 05:33 AM.
Kurdel
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:21 PM)
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I agree with the article, and the conclusion hits the nail on the head.

Originally Posted by Polygon

The imaginary Gabe, the one in our memes, is a cultural defense mechanism, a happy fiction we all invented to make us feel better about the fact that we were, and remain, willing partners in installing PC gaming's biggest, most opaque, exploitative monopoly ó one which we know deep down doesn't care about us at all.

Maybe it's time for all of us to wake up.

Dec
Member
(05-16-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Human Trashcan

They are exploiting their workshop creators and take pretty much as little responsibility as they can all around, so yes

Do you know why workshop creators are as mad as they are?

Their cut from profits has never changed outside of ONE specific method of sale and that is the Battle Pass.

In previous years they sold workshop sets as individual sets or chests of 8~ sets of which you get 1 random for a couple dollars. In those scenarios the workshop artists have always received the same amount (chest money is split between all artists and valve, set direct purchases between creating artist and valve). This is still true, unchanged.

Since then though, Valve has begun quarterly (or about that often) Battle Passes that coincide with major tournaments/The International where you can do things in game to level the Battle Pass and earn chests and other rewards. These Battle Passes offer so much value to players compared to just normally buying cosmetics that the majority of cosmetics sales are now people buying into the Battle Pass. If you compare how workshop artists make money now to two years ago when it was "healthier" there are the exact same cuts they had before, but another way to earn on top of that. The only thing that has changed is that players are buying way less sets directly and way more cosmetics through the Battle Pass.

In the past all artists received a very small portion of the entire profits of the Battle Pass. While that is really nice for the artists, I can absolutely understand why that isn't ideal for Valve. The pay people are getting for just one set for one hero must be insane.

Instead they removed the workshop artist cut from Battle Pass purchases and moved them to the purchases that are directly for the things that artist made (buying treasures that are included in said Battle Passes).

It is absolutely understandable why workshop artists are so mad about it, they lost a lot of their income. But my point is "was that income way too high to begin with", and there is an argument to be had there, but probably not by either of us.

I just feel like all of the people up in arms about that workshop thing are either directly tied to the workshop or people who read statements by someone tied to the workshop or from a games journalism website that only read the statements from the people tied to the workshop.

I get that it's nice to be able to point to something and say "that's why Valve and Steam is bad for gaming!" but I think there is a lot more nuance to that workshop situation than a lot of people realize.
Last edited by Dec; 05-16-2017 at 07:24 PM.
Delusibeta
Junior Member
(05-16-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by tkscz

It's an opinion piece which we can post those. Can't be used as a reputable source for information though.

If anything, that's the exact opposite of what should be happening. Polygon's opinion articles are legendary for being an extremely unreputable source of information.
StereoVsn
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(05-16-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Admodieus

There's hyperbole here but the main point is valid - people have an almost religious attachment to Valve and Steam, to the point where it hinders rational assessment of the alternatives.

I get the desire to have all your friends and games in one place, but Origin has become a pretty good client by itself these days. GOG is pretty good and I don't have any issues with the Windows Store for my Play Anywhere titles. I don't spend a lot of time in uPlay because I don't play many Ubi Soft games.

As long as the game is available on PC and I can redownload it each of my machines and sync my saves back and forth, I'm good. Every client seems to do that these days.

You don't have an issue with windows store which only sells keys through itself and allows no completion (Devs can't gen keys), actively blocks mods through the way it encrypts content and you complain about Steam?! Yeah...

Again, anyone, name a store platform for a huge variety of games that easily integrates modding and social features amongst other dev functionality for free and lets you gen keys for free. Here is the thing, it doesn't exist beside Steam, yet everyone conviniently ignores those points because "and I don't have any issues with the Windows Store for my Play Anywhere titles".
phant0m
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(05-16-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Valve doesn't have to answer to shareholders, so by default they are better than their competitors in the digital PC game seller market.

Only reason I have faith.
Ikuu
Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
(05-16-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kurdel

I agree with the article, and the conclusion hits the nail on the head.

That conclusion is hilarious.

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