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Raylan Targaryen
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alex_Mexico

Jesus, GAF. Not every game has to be turned into a Souls game.

You shut your mouth. I'm still waiting for Madden NFL by From Software
superbeau
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 03:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by heringer

would you like one?

I would love tense, involved combat combined with the exploration and direction of a Metroid game. I frankly need this game now
CaviarMeths
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:28 PM)
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Sure there are similarities, but Metroid at its core is about exploration and platforming. Encounter design of a Souls-like would just be a burden. Samus also wears an agile powered exosuit that wouldn't work at all in a Souls environment.

Nah, Retro gets Metroid perfectly fine. Nintendo doesn't need From on that IP.
Peltz
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:28 PM)
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Can't wait for Ghost Song. But no I don't think I want a Souls Metroid.

Super Metroid and Prime are still as good as anything else out there. I want Nintendo to try to top those games using the traditional formula.
Last edited by Peltz; 05-19-2017 at 03:31 PM.
nynt9
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by sixteen-bit

when's this coming out btw

No idea. Here's another gif, and some gameplay



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-wirpI2fdQ
heringer
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by digita1alchemy

What? No, that was my point. It's lazy, and the end result usually isn't that good.

Ah, ok. I mean, it's a popular framework right now, so I guess that's expected.

I don't see near as many Souls like games as people make it sound, though. The only notables I remember are Nioh and The Surge (which apparently isn't that great). Unless you count 2D games, which wasn't in my mind for this thread.
Yoshi
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:29 PM)
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No, please no, I'd definitely prefer Metroid Prime 4 a lot. If anything, they should make Metroid's combat faster and more direct, rather than making it another slo-mo game like Souls. I absolutely do not see how Metroid could in any way profit from being brought closer to Souls, it certainly would be ruined for me.
playingwithfire
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:31 PM)
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I'd love to see Froms art team work on a Metroid game. Or just a souls game with a sci-fi setting would be awesome.
Solid SOAP
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(05-19-2017, 03:31 PM)
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Definitely, I'd buy it in an instance. The formula could work and I'm sure an emphasis on armed combat as opposed to melee could add a nice wrinkle to the Souls formula. Both franchises compliment each other.
NESpowerhouse
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
(05-19-2017, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheBigG753

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think exploration is a huge part of the Souls games and plays a large role in how you can overcome those odds.

Sorry, just woke up. I'll explain a little more. While both series certainly do have exploration as a large focus, they implement it in different ways. Dark Souls is much slower-paced and has a lot of one-time secrets hidden that are immediately accessible once you find them(since you have essentially all of your movement options available from the start), while Metroid contains a multitude of hidden items that require you to obtain a certain weapon/mode of movement and usually require you to make a mental note and return to it later. Now if you were to combine these two formulas, you would end up with a game that, despite its overwhelming difficulty, would still have the gall to make you traverse across this incredibly dangerous land just to get a single item you were incapable of getting earlier. Hence, the game would lose one of its major focuses.

That also brings up the question of how the combat and inventory systems would work. Would the game keep the traditional Metroid system of acquiring items via exploration or would it forgo this and have all of the items be gotten through item drops? Also, would the items be consumable or would they just apply their effects immediately?
Last edited by NESpowerhouse; 05-19-2017 at 03:38 PM.
zenspider
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:37 PM)
Huh. What would Meteoid borrow from Souls that already isn't a part of it's DNA?

Maybe just a revitalization: focus on the core elements of the first 3 games and drop all the post-Fusion fluff (yes, including Prime). Metroid 1 was pretty punishing and I still the most atmospheric and alien feeling - even scary at times - so maybe lean into that? Go back to the 'Alien' vibe...

my God, I never would have thought of tapping From Software, but that could be amazing. Nintendo's been making some pretty saavy moves, but that seems too smart.

Also,iwhy does everyone want Retro on it? Didn't all the Prime 1 talent leave?
heringer
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(05-19-2017, 03:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by NESpowerhouse

Sorry, just woke up. I'll explain a little more. While both series certainly do have exploration as a large focus, they implement it in different ways. Dark Souls is much slower-paced and has a lot of one-time secrets hidden that are immediately accessible once you find them(since you have essentially all of your movement options available from the start), while Metroid contains a multitude of hidden items that require you to obtain a certain weapon/mode of movement and usually require you to make a mental note and return to it later. Now if you were to combine these two formulas, you would end up with a game that, despite its overwhelming difficulty, would still have the gall to make you traverse across this incredibly dangerous land just to get a single item you were incapable of getting earlier.

That also brings up the question of how the combat and inventory systems would work. Would the game keep the traditional Metroid system of acquiring items via exploration or would it forgo this and have all of the items be gotten through item drops? Also, would the items be consumable or would they just apply their effects immediately?

Well, that's not how the merge of different design philosophies work though. The developer doesn't simply add mechanics of both franchises and watch the results hoping for the best, they create and balance new mechanics that evoke the staples of both designs.
Magnus
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(05-19-2017, 03:39 PM)
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A FROM Metroid is an inspired idea. I'm all for it.
Strings
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(05-19-2017, 03:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Roches

You shut your mouth. I'm still waiting for Madden NFL by From Software

Eh, it's no Ueda Madden.
Spring-Loaded
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(05-19-2017, 03:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by zenspider

Also,iwhy does everyone want Retro on it? Didn't all the Prime 1 talent leave?

I don't know, but probably they're games are still good, they currently develop Nintendo games and they aren't associated with Other M or Federation Force.
Currygan
at last, for christ's sake
(05-19-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Perhaps it could, but i dont want to feel frustrated as hell playing a Metroid game, so, against
heringer
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(05-19-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spring-Loaded

I don't know, but probably they're games are still good, they currently develop Nintendo games and they aren't associated with Other M or Federation Force.

They also made the latest Donkey Kong games, which are among the best 2D platformers of all time.
Sushigod7
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(05-19-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alex_Mexico

Jesus, GAF. Not every game has to be turned into a Souls game.

The only thing I think Metroid would benefit from the Souls blueprint it's its attention to detail and atmosphere but it shouldn't play as one.

One franchise I do think would benefit from turning into a Souls game is Castlevania. Just look st Bloodborne and tell me you don't see it.

Agreed this seems to come up with every game. I think Metroid would be fine if they would just take more care with the story and not change it completely from what made it great to begin with. Some of those things might overlap but it doesn't need to use Souls games as a blueprint.
Malyse
stop advertising threads
(05-19-2017, 03:44 PM)
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I look forward to a new game series that every game needs to play like.
Glass Shark
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(05-19-2017, 03:44 PM)
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What do you mean by "Souls" game? Because there is a LOT from that series that I think is bad and shouldn't be incorporated in any other games. I think the Souls games feel awful, look awful, and are filled to the brim with opaque bullshit that serves no real purpose. I mean, do you just want a difficult Metroid game? Sure, that's fine. But I hope they would also include some other lower difficulty options for people that don't care about that.
Kssio_Aug
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(05-19-2017, 03:47 PM)
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I really can't see the relation. It's not because A is good and B is good, that fusing A with B would be good too. Totally different games that recquires totally different mechanics.

That said... MAYBE it could work, but I can't really see it fitting that well in my head. But I hope they don't try it. I'm kinda sick of the belief that Soul's gameplay can / should be applied everywhere.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
(05-19-2017, 03:49 PM)
So a 3rd person shooter with an interconnected world.

I'd rather that be a bit breezy and elegant for traversal's sake. Would probably start verging into Vanquish territory at the least. Not sure I want to go YOU DIED the first time out before someone nails down how map design, movement and backtracking should feel in something like this.
KarmaCow
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(05-19-2017, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Kowalski

That's what Metroid already is

They significantly toned down the difficulty since Super Metroid and don't have RPG cruft but yea, I don't see what From could bring to the series that would be novel or worthwhile. Considering the platforming in Souls games, I don't have much faith in them delivering either.
Gator86
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(05-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alex_Mexico

Jesus, GAF. Not every game has to be turned into a Souls game.

The only thing I think Metroid would benefit from the Souls blueprint it's its attention to detail and atmosphere but it shouldn't play as one.

One franchise I do think would benefit from turning into a Souls game is Castlevania. Just look st Bloodborne and tell me you don't see it.

Basically. It's more of a meme than a serious thought at this point. Personally, I'm looking forward to FIFA Souls next year.
Kyle8497
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
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I think you could tack "Souls" onto most series and make them better.
heringer
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(05-19-2017, 03:55 PM)
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Where are all of these Souls games people are mentioning?

Seems like people claiming "I'm sick of the Souls formula" are people who never liked the Souls games to begin with, because we really didn't get all that many games that are similar or with the same quality.
NESpowerhouse
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
(05-19-2017, 03:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by heringer

Well, that's not how the merge of different design philosophies work though. The developer doesn't simply add mechanics of both franchises and watch the results hoping for the best, they create and balance new mechanics that evoke the staples of both designs.

In this sense though, since many of the core gameplay features shared between both series are so similar, there are still certain aspects aspects that one must keep in order for a series to still be identifiable. I don't really see this mashup bringing anything interesting other than a foreboding alien atmosphere that fills the player with dread. In my opinion, Metroid must keep that fast-paced style of gameplay in order to still have that Metroid charm, and when you throw in a multitude of enemies simply meant to impede your progress and challenge your combat skills (one of the biggest defining traits of the Souls series), you would inevitably lose that.

Speaking of combat, how do you think that would work? First of all, would it be first or third person? If it is first person, how would Samus dodge? Would you incorporate up-close melee attacks? If so, how would you balance Samus' trademark beam attacks to make these attacks seem more useful? Would there be an ammo system? Or would you bring back Metroid 1 power beam-esque beam weapons that are only effective a few feet in front of Samus? Also, how much of an RPG would this be? Would there be a leveling system where you can selectively increase certain stats? If not, what would there be to gain in fighting all these enemies? There are so many things to consider when crafting this kind of game where I don't really feel the benefits would be worth it.
Last edited by NESpowerhouse; 05-19-2017 at 04:01 PM.
Mr-Joker
Other people suffering isn't my problem and I don't care about it.
(05-19-2017, 03:59 PM)
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Topic like these are why I dislike the soul fanbase, we get it you like the Souls series but not every game needs to be a Souls clone game.

And beside from what little I have played of Bloodborne, the series isn't that amazing that is worth emulating.
Wamb0wneD
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(05-19-2017, 04:00 PM)
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The Dark Souls of Metroid games. No
RuhRo
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 04:00 PM)
Everyone is thinking of this idea in terms of combat. Souls style exploration (interconnected maps and uncovering shortcuts, etc.) and more of its RPG style character progression would be great in Metroid.
Yoshi
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(05-19-2017, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by KarmaCow

They significantly toned down the difficulty since Super Metroid and don't have RPG cruft but yea, I don't see what From could bring to the series that would be novel or worthwhile. Considering the platforming in Souls games, I don't have much faith in them delivering either.

I found the Prime games to be more difficult than Super.
Gator86
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(05-19-2017, 04:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by heringer

Where are all of these Souls games people are mentioning?

Seems like people claiming "I'm sick of the Souls formula" are people who never liked the Souls games to begin with, because we really didn't get all that many games that are similar or with the same quality.

We've gotten 5 in the last 8 years so the series is almost an annual game at this point. 6 now, if you count the DS2 remaster. By the end of DS3, having finished them all, I was totally burned out on the series.
true Gek
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(05-19-2017, 04:02 PM)
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It was released in 2004 and it's called Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.
Forsaken82
(05-19-2017, 04:04 PM)
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While the exploration could suit a souls style philosophy from level design and atmosphere, the combat lacks the depth one would expect.

This just seems like a silly notion.
Kthulhu
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(05-19-2017, 04:05 PM)
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But I already have Hollow Knight OP. Gimme Prime 4 instead. Or get Platinum to make a Metroid game.
heringer
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(05-19-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by NESpowerhouse

Speaking of combat, how do you think that would work? First of all, would it be first or third person? If it is first person, how would Samus dodge? Would you incorporate up-close melee attacks? If so, how would you balance Samus' trademark beam attacks to make these attacks seem more useful? Would there be an ammo system? Or would you bring back Metroid 1 power beam-esque beam weapons that are only effective a few feet in front of Samus? Also, how much of an RPG would this be? Would there be a leveling system where you can selectively increase certain stats? If not, what would there be to gain in fighting all these enemies? There are so many things to consider when crafting this kind of game where I don't really feel the benefits would be worth it.

I imagine something similar to the Prime games, but in third person. The thing with combat is that the trick is more in the enemy design than the combat mechanics themselves. The mechanics would obviously have to be different due to the emphasis in range combat, but the enemy design would accomodate that, and I'm confident From Software would come up with good solutions. Having beams that are more effective at close range and beams that are more effective at a distance would be a good addition, I think.

I think combat is the easier thing to accomodate. The biggest difficulty would be platforming, actually, since that's one area the developers haven't proven themselves. Also, how would they handle loot? There are definitely many questions, but I'm not the right person to answer since I'm not a designer. But again, I do think From is more than capable of coming up with good solutions.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
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(05-19-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr-Joker

Topic like these are why I dislike the soul fanbase, we get it you like the Souls series but not every game needs to be a Souls clone game.

And beside from what little I have played of Bloodborne, the series isn't that amazing that is worth emulating.

Well we don't like you either.
NESpowerhouse
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
(05-19-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by RuhRo

Everyone is thinking of this idea in terms of combat. Souls style exploration (interconnected maps and uncovering shortcuts, etc.) and more of its RPG style character progression would be great in Metroid.

The first thing you mentioned is already in Metroid, though. Also, what an RPG system would add to Metroid in particular. There are already tons of Metroidvania games that use this kind of system, but one thing that I feel sets Metroid apart from those other games is that it uses a more simplified and accessible implementation of this formula.
Magwik
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(05-19-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Not
Everything
Needs
To
Be
Souls
sgjackson
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(05-19-2017, 04:07 PM)
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I'm actively against the idea that "x franchise should be a Souls game!" and honestly don't even like Souls games that much, but I've also had this thought. Super Metroid is still striking in how it makes Samus feel "alone" and how unsettling Zebes is. It's not quite horror, but it's dire in a similar way. The Souls franchise is probably the closest a modern game has come to toeing that line.

I don't think the gameplay is directly comparable and I think you'd need to mitigate the Souls brand of inscrutable bullshit somewhat, but there's sounder logic to this idea than "I like Souls, everything should be Souls!"
Kojirospath
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(05-19-2017, 04:08 PM)
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I've wanted this for a long time now. Gunplay instead of melee would not be a problem.
HvySky
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(05-19-2017, 04:08 PM)
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I just want Metroid.

Someone give me some Metroid.

Please.
eXistor
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(05-19-2017, 04:08 PM)
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It could certainly work, I see no reason for it not to, but I don't necessarily want it to happen to be honest.
Crab
Famed for his Europa Universalis IV exploits
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Isn't this already what Metroid is? I'm confused about what exactly this would entail beyond just getting a new Metroid game.
NESpowerhouse
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by heringer

I think combat is the easier thing to accommodate. The biggest difficulty would be platforming, actually, since that's one area the developers haven't proven themselves. Also, how would they handle loot? There are definitely many questions, but I'm not the right person to answer since I'm not a designer. But again, I do think From is more than capable of coming up with good solutions.

Yeah, I haven't even begun to think about platforming, would getting hit cancel your mid-air momentum? How many cheap moments would this lead to? Should there be fall damage?
Wamb0wneD
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(05-19-2017, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by HvySky

I just want Metroid.

Someone give me some Metroid.

Please.

Be careful what you wish for.
Effect
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(05-19-2017, 04:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by RuhRo

Everyone is thinking of this idea in terms of combat. Souls style exploration (interconnected maps and uncovering shortcuts, etc.) and more of its RPG style character progression would be great in Metroid.

A lot of that is already in the Metroid franchise. It's where a lot of those things originated from. What the Souls games do isn't that original. From Software took elements from the past Metroid and Castlevania games and added harder hitting enemies and more restrictions and road blocks in regard to staying alive while also slowing down the combat.

Maybe people have forgotten this or don't realize this. Which is why we need to look at the combat and slowing down the combat is going to be a big no no. Metroid has you shooting. You could add some melee for some close quarters situations but shooting still has to be the main way of doing damage and that determines the game design. Removing that has to be a hard no.

Nintendo and whoever they partner with just needs to give us a Metroid game that stays true to it's roots. Just don't limit the gameplay by picking weird controller layouts like Other M or Federation Force. The templates for the core experience are already there with Super Metroid/Fusion on the 2D front and Metroid Prime Trilogy on the 3D front. We know what works and doesn't work and move from there. Then make the games as hard or as easy as one wants by letting enemies one shot you, etc within the confines of the shooting gameplay.
Last edited by Effect; 05-19-2017 at 04:24 PM.
Wamb0wneD
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(05-19-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by RuhRo

Everyone is thinking of this idea in terms of combat. Souls style exploration (interconnected maps and uncovering shortcuts, etc.) and more of its RPG style character progression would be great in Metroid.

Are you kidding or did you just never play a Metroid game? The fuck.
Van Bur3n
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(05-19-2017, 04:28 PM)
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Never going to happen. Because this is Nintendo we're talking about here. Nintendo and Metroid. The two don't go together.
Murkas
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(05-19-2017, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr-Joker

Topic like these are why I dislike the soul fanbase, we get it you like the Souls series but not every game needs to be a Souls clone game.

And beside from what little I have played of Bloodborne, the series isn't that amazing that is worth emulating.

Originally Posted by StaticJam

Not
Everything
Needs
To
Be
Souls

Souls fans: Demand that every game becomes a Souls game while at the same time hating on games that are like Souls games (Lords of the Fallen, The Surge, Nioh)

Schrödinger's Souls.

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