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Eolz
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Madame M

Why change Link to Toon Link? Why change Mario into a piece of paper?

You mean why change their artstyle in the former case, like how there's Chibi armored Samus in the latest Metroid game?
And why change an artstyle to be able to have a different gameplay style, just like when Samus can suddenly fit into a ball?

I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, but comparing this to a different character design (like making Samus black or Link a girl) is pretty reaching...

edit:

Originally Posted by Budi

Well I added this to my post in the edit. Someone like Lincoln Clay in Mafia 3 has to be black for everything to work as it does. Being black is huge part of the character and themes of the game, not only the appearance. Nathan Drake and Samus being white though, is that crucial? What traits in their nature or their past couldn't be associated with people of color?

And people who are upset of whitewashing in movies are upset because it's a lost role for minority who are underrepresented. We don't have similar lack of white people.

But I do agree that better solution is to create new characters.

So that goes back to what I was saying: is wanting Samus (or any other established character) to be black just some mean to go back on some black characters whitewashed at some point (but not in videogames)?
What's the point or the reason behind that?
Last edited by Eolz; 05-20-2017 at 01:29 AM.
Toxi
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:26 AM)
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This is the same series where Samus went from this



to this



So another redesign wouldn't bother me. If anything, I'd be happy just because your suggested Metroid game has Samus actually stay in the armor until the end of the game. :-P
TheGreatDirector
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Hydrus

I know. It's not like all there IP's are the generic badass white guy that everyone else seems to do. Nintendo seems to be getting better. We just got these this year:











It's a step in the right direction.

People will still argue these characters aren't black though. Whether it's because of the hairstyle or something else, there's almost always another excuse as to why these are just "tanned" characters or something other black. Nintendo is getting better, but they along with everyone else is still a way's off.
Skittles
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(05-20-2017, 01:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Eolz

She could, but she's not.
Again, like it's fine having spiderman or captain falcon be black: those are monickers, different identities.
Having Nathan Drake, Lara Croft, Samus or Mario black is not the same: those are established characters, with their own identity, even if their race doesn't have an impact their exploits/story/etc.

I really don't see what is hard to understand about that, nor why people don't want a new character instead of just doing some race change (or some gender bender for some other characters). The former should be encouraged. The latter is just changing an established character because you're mad/sad/disappointed/etc about your favorite character not being like you, or worse, for no reason at all.

I mean, you weakened your argument by putting spiderman in there. Since spiderman is seen out of costume/armor far more than samus is, yet he's still defined by his costumed appearance. Samus is barely seen out of her costume/armor in all her games except Other M (she was poorly written there so why would a race change effect anything) and very small sections of fusion and zero mission

Originally Posted by Wild Card

Considering one of the things I value most is character design, and having a consistent idea of what Samus looks like is important when I think of her and the image that comes to mind, I would say it's absolutely a part of it.

A new black Samus could be the coolest, most badass, most relatable character to come out of the medium of videogames, and I'd love her, but I'd still be like "that's not Samus"

Why would it matter when samus spends literally 99% of the game in her armor?

Originally Posted by Eolz

It's the equivalent of you saying "What would be the dissonance for Samus being black. How would the character be different if she was made black from the start. Other than the visual appearance.", but the other way.

Seriously, at this point I wonder if those threads are just not made by some people angry that an established character that was either female or non-white got gender/race swapped in some adaptation.
It happens for Hollywood movies, but I've never seen it happen for any videogame character.

There still hasn't been a single good reason in any of those threads shown on why an established character (be it Samus, Link, etc) should be completely changed. None.
Just "yeah but it wouldn't change her/his icon status". But why? Especially more intriguing when those are characters existing since 25+ years, with an established lore, canon, fanbase, etc.

I mean if you really want to bring whitewashing in hollywood movies into the argument be my guest, but that doesn't help you in anyway. Considering those movies are criticized for stripping away diversity for no good reason.

It happens for Hollywood movies, but I've never seen it happen for any videogame character.






then you got shit like this happening within the same game.

SatelliteOfLove
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(05-20-2017, 01:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Skittles

.

VF5 for PC to mod back in the melanin!
ZiZ
that ain't rice
it's bits of Semtex
(05-20-2017, 01:31 AM)
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I wouldn't like it.

I'm not white. I am definitely for more diversity in games.

But I generally dislike taking something with an established lore and changing it (unless there was something very wrong with it).
Madame M
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:33 AM)

Originally Posted by Eolz

You mean why change their artstyle in the former case, like how there's Chibi armored Samus in the latest Metroid game?
And why change an artstyle to be able to have a different gameplay style, just like when Samus can suddenly fit into a ball?

I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, but comparing this to a different character design (like making Samus black or Link a girl) is pretty reaching...

It's not just an artstyle. Mario is literally paper. You can change a character from flesh and bone into wood pulp and no one bats an eyelash but god forbid you change the skin color.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:33 AM)

Originally Posted by Skittles

tl;dr colored people need a reason to exist, white people don't

You're really living up to the "Didn't read" part of your post.
JB-the-Hunter
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(05-20-2017, 01:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by ScientificPizza

They have a bunch of white people and then animals and monsters and shit. that's not the kind of diversity people are talking about

A black samus would be cool, idk. It'd be fun just to see people try to bend over backwards to try and argue why she *needs* to be white even though she absolutely doesn't at all

Just because a character has light skin it doesn't make them white. Have people ever considered that most of Nintendo's characters are Asian?
KLoWn
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(05-20-2017, 01:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Skittles

Why would it matter when samus spends literally 99% of the game in her armor?

Why would you prefer the race change of an since long established character over a new black heroine that takes over the lead of the series?

Genuinely curious.
Last edited by KLoWn; 05-20-2017 at 01:37 AM.
KillLaCam
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(05-20-2017, 01:35 AM)
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This is a strange topic. Just make a new character. Samus isnt an important person. She's just in a suit. Master Chief pre-343 has more personality than her. Replacing her wouldn't hurt or help Metroid. But making the main character look completely different like that would actually be weird and offend people. it'd be easier to just make a new character in this case


Like if Jax was white in Mortal Kombat. Or if Scarlett Johansson played a Japanese woman
Last edited by KillLaCam; 05-20-2017 at 01:46 AM.
Toxi
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(05-20-2017, 01:36 AM)
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Arguing consistency makes little sense here. The design of Samus's Varia Suit changes all the time, and that's her appearance for the majority of Metroid games and advertisements.

If you think Samus losing the ridges on her Varia Suit shoulders between Prime 3 and Other M is less of a change than Samus changing skin color, you need to be reminded what Metroid is about.
Budi
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(05-20-2017, 01:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Eolz

So that goes back to what I was saying: is wanting Samus (or any other established character) to be black just some mean to go back on some black characters whitewashed at some point (but not in videogames)?
What's the point or the reason behind that?

I don't know, maybe to some? Or maybe they want to see bigots upset, I do! I've wondered this myself too. But I'm pretty sure Nintendo wouldn't have brought race relations angle to their space fantasy game even if the character was black from the start. She could had been exactly the same as portrayed in all the games, just black. Nothing else needed to be changed.

As I said in my earlier post, I'd question if changing Samus to different ethnicity is necessary. But I don't see any reason why they couldn't do it without changing the characterization.
Last edited by Budi; 05-20-2017 at 01:43 AM.
TeddyShardik
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(05-20-2017, 01:37 AM)
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She could be a wireframe model under that sweet armour for all I care.
What I'm really afraid of is the thought of what Nintendo would do to the series in such a reboot.
Madame M
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:37 AM)

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

Just because a character has light skin it doesn't make them white. Have people ever considered that most of Nintendo's characters are Asian?

Ooh, which ones?
Toxi
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(05-20-2017, 01:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by TeddyShardik

She could be a wireframe model under that sweet armour for all I care.
What I'm really afraid of is the thought of what Nintendo would do to the series in such a reboot.

Can't be worse than Other M.
Eolz
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(05-20-2017, 01:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Skittles

I mean, you weakened your argument by putting spiderman in there. Since spiderman is seen out of costume/armor far more than samus is, yet he's still defined by his costumed appearance. Samus is barely seen out of her costume/armor in all her games except Other M (she was poorly written there so why would a race change effect anything) and very small sections of fusion and zero mission

Why would it matter when samus spends literally 99% of the game in her armor?

You didn't understand the Spiderman example.
Having the one under the costume of Spiderman black is fine. Having Peter Parker being black isn't.
Marvel tried that, and it mostly worked out!

A secret identity isn't the same at all...

Originally Posted by Skittles

I mean if you really want to bring whitewashing in hollywood movies into the argument be my guest, but that doesn't help you in anyway. Considering those movies are criticized for stripping away diversity for no good reason.

.

The interesting thing about those three fighting game characters is how the engines drastically changed between those iterations.
Lisa has been shown as still having a pretty dark skin depending on the lighting and shaders used. Jade seems to have always been tanned at best according to official concept art (from what I can see, unless I'm missing some), and it seems more like a case of technical limitations, like Samus in Metroid 1 having a light purple skin.
Vanessa is a case of whitening as far as we know, but unlike Lisa, we won't know if it's a case of shaders/lighting used making it look worse than it actually is until we can get it on PC or a modern platform.

Gloria->Trish is some weird japanese storytelling, and was always Trish under a magic disguise. Not some character whitening, that's pretty reaching.
For Tetra, she was tanned. And magically untanned after that, yeah, good old magic. But she didn't have a different race.
staticneuron
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(05-20-2017, 01:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by James Scott

Not sure why you'd change a character like that without making a new one, but I wouldn't be upset.

This. I am all for more diversity but I really don't see why creators would need to change existing character versus creating new one. I point to Watchdogs 2 as an example. I wouldn't have connected as much if they simply included Aiden Pierce but black.

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

Just because a character has light skin it doesn't make them white. Have people ever considered that most of Nintendo's characters are Asian?

But of course, because traditional asian names like Link, mario, luigi, samus, princess peach, Icarus, kirby and so many others make it incredibly obvious!
Last edited by staticneuron; 05-20-2017 at 01:44 AM.
EleventhHourSuperpower
EleventhHourPlagiarism
(05-20-2017, 01:43 AM)
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Odd question because it would be a new character, literally, in all but name.

Probably wouldn't think too much about it one way or the other but...

Originally Posted by staticneuron

This. I am all for more diversity but I really don't see why creators would need to change existing character versus creating new one. I point to Watchdogs 2 as an example. I wouldn't have connected as much if they simply included Aiden Pierce but black.

Exactly, don't do this.
spazchicken
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(05-20-2017, 01:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by TeddyShardik

She could be a wireframe model under that sweet armour for all I care.
What I'm really afraid of is the thought of what Nintendo would do to the series in such a reboot.

If Westerners developed it, it could be done fairly tasteful.

If Japan develops it Samus would be the sidekick to a playable white protagonist.
WhupTroyGAF
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 01:44 AM)
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I would personally prefer if Samus is a red headed cross-eyed Irish Albino with a bit of a snaggletooth.
KillLaCam
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(05-20-2017, 01:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Madame M

Ooh, which ones?

Mario is pretty Asian.
NewGame
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:45 AM)

Originally Posted by Skittles



Can someone make a GIF where the bleach is mayonnaise.
Eolz
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(05-20-2017, 01:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Madame M

It's not just an artstyle. Mario is literally paper. You can change a character from flesh and bone into wood pulp and no one bats an eyelash but god forbid you change the skin color.

What is your opinion on Mario and Paper Mario meeting together?

You're trying way too hard to make "so we can put Mario into some wood pulp but Samus can't be black?!" a thing. It just doesn't work as an argument.

Originally Posted by Budi

I don't know, maybe to some? I've wondered this myself too. But I'm pretty sure Nintendo wouldn't have brought race relations angle to their space fantasy game even if the character was black from the start. She could had been exactly the same as portrayed in all the games, just black. Nothing else needed to be changed.

As I said in my earlier post, I'd question if changing Samus to different ethnicity is necessary. But I don't see any reason why they couldn't do it without changing the characterization.

The fact that Samus is an established character since 30 years, with a specific look?
Her character could definitely stay the same, but there's no reason at all for her to have a race change.
It's a Tomb Raider situation really. If they did a reboot, she'd only look slightly different.

But yeah, sure, 30 years ago, she could have been black. Or Super Metroid could have been non related to the original one for example. But that's not the case.
EleventhHourSuperpower
EleventhHourPlagiarism
(05-20-2017, 01:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by KillLaCam

Mario is pretty Asian.

No he's not. He's canonically not too.

This thread has gotten weird.
Madame M
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:47 AM)

Originally Posted by WhupTroyGAF

I would personally prefer if Samus is a red headed cross-eyed Irish Albino with a bit of a snaggletooth.

how about just a red dot for her mouth?

The Artisan
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(05-20-2017, 01:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Skittles

tl;dr colored people need a reason to exist, white people don't

colored people need a reason to exist?
TheSpaceBetween
MyGoddamnEars
(05-20-2017, 01:48 AM)
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Out of the three Metroid threads going right now, this one is easily the most WTF.
ScientificPizza
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(05-20-2017, 01:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Eolz

Samus is the same character, in the same storyline (even if it's a mess) since 30 years or so. She has an identity, she is an established character, with the same genetics, background, etc.
Acting like Samus wasn't considered a woman before ZSS became a Smash character, and that identity was a trivia fact outside of the end of Metroid 1 is alternative facts as someone would say...

What is pure garbage is acting as if it would be perfectly fine to change an established character after 30 years for no reason. The IP isn't dead, Nintendo is still doing merchandising on both her armored and ZS designs, and she's not even some reincarnation between games like Link.

As said about 5 times now, there's still no good reason why this should change. None. 0.
Just trying to find a flaw in other arguments, instead of proving why yours is so good (it's really, really not).

That's because you are not understanding what my argument is. My argument isn't that Samus should definitely be black, it's that whiteness is irrelevant to Samus' character

It would be perfectly fine to change her character. Just because something is established (and, again, the argument of how established she is as a white character is questionable)

Samus being white is a slight detail, and her character design outside of the suit has been nebulous at best. He physical characteristics can be boiled down to white, slim, and blonde and her emotional characteristics are just "bounty hunter, hates metroids". This isn't some deep character whose so evolved and nuanced that a ethnicity change would really change anything

Instead a soft reboot with a new Samus could be an opportunity to actually turn her into a character, and not a one dimensional alien killer.

You could absolutely make an argument for a black Samus, but that's not what my argument is. My argument is that I have an issue with people saying she *needs* to be white. She doesn't.

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

Just because a character has light skin it doesn't make them white. Have people ever considered that most of Nintendo's characters are Asian?

Such as?
EleventhHourSuperpower
EleventhHourPlagiarism
(05-20-2017, 01:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheSpaceBetween

Out of the three Metroid threads going right now, this one is easily the most WTF.

Agreed, just make new characters. Don't be silly like the OP and demand existing characters be stripped of their traits.

You'll enjoy life more.
M0nochromatic
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(05-20-2017, 01:50 AM)
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I would react to Samus being black in a new Metroid game with worry about how Nintendo would handle the character. I would also be concerned with whether it would be a good Metroid game or not, since they seem to have trouble with that.

It's the same thing with Link being a woman, or Mario being religous or whatever you want to inject into their characters. Sure, do whatever. It won't happen but it's a fun hypothetical.
Endo Punk
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(05-20-2017, 01:50 AM)
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Don't know about Samus but Id buy Dark Skin Dante in DMC5 in a heart beat, even as an alternative outfit 😁
spazchicken
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(05-20-2017, 01:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

Just because a character has light skin it doesn't make them white. Have people ever considered that most of Nintendo's characters are Asian?

Madame M
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:52 AM)

Originally Posted by Eolz

What is your opinion on Mario and Paper Mario meeting together?

Degenerate filth that laughs in the face of God.
KillLaCam
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(05-20-2017, 01:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by EleventhHourSuperpower

No he's not. He's canonically not too.

This thread has gotten weird.

I forgot the /s

He's literally an Italian plumber. They dont even try to be subtle about it
Gaspard
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(05-20-2017, 01:53 AM)
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Cool now Metroid stans can stop saying stuff like "why is Pikmin still around and not Metroid lol :'("
Toxi
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(05-20-2017, 01:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by EleventhHourSuperpower

Odd question because it would be a new character, literally, in all but name.

Uh, no it wouldn't. The character would still be wearing the power suit and exploring planets and finding power ups and killing aliens. You know, the things Metroid as a series is about.

Why do you think Samus's skin color is a more integral part of her character than those elements?
Somnium
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(05-20-2017, 01:55 AM)
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Why not champion or request more original IPs to have dark skinned protagonists and leads?

The majority of the time that is much better than having an established character of known IP be swapped out for an alternative, which will always end up being compared to the beloved original. I'm not necessarily against the idea, but it seems so arbitrary.
Rather see more well-designed characters of other ethnicities hold their own in an original title or world. Which can potentially to give way to even more diverse iconic characters.
Last edited by Somnium; 05-20-2017 at 02:03 AM.
The_Endgamer
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(05-20-2017, 01:55 AM)
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It would be levels of Ghostbusters remake all over again. No need to.

This is like making Mario Puerto Rican, just 'cause.

I'm black and don't really like the race-baiting theme for this thread tbh.
hemo memo
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(05-20-2017, 01:55 AM)
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More diversity.. Ofcource I would be happy.
Renmyra
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(05-20-2017, 01:55 AM)
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This is the stupidest thread I've ever seen.

What if Barret was made white in the remake? Could you imagine the outrage? I can't even imagine why you even considered making this thread, let alone went through with it.
EleventhHourSuperpower
EleventhHourPlagiarism
(05-20-2017, 01:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by KillLaCam

I forgot the /s

Oh, my bad, but it's hard to tell given this thread.

This character wouldn't really be Samus.

If there were a protagonist of a difference race in a Metroid game, it'd be a new character.

Some people really like to play four-dimensional chess.

gaugebozo
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(05-20-2017, 01:56 AM)
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Here's a better way to phrase OPs question: "How would you react if at the end of the next Metroid, the main character took off her helmet and it was a black woman."

This would be interesting, and a nice twist on the original game's "Samus is a woman," reveal. It also expands the universe and transfers the awesome gear to another person for more interesting story possibilities.
Madame M
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:58 AM)

Originally Posted by The_Endgamer

It would be levels of Ghostbusters remake all over again. No need to.

This is like making Mario Puerto Rican, just 'cause.

I'm black and don't really like the race-baiting theme for this thread tbh.

Interesting observation that it would be like Ghostbusters, because there wouldn't even be a new Ghostbusters movie without those women.

Just like Bill Murray had no intention to make a new Ghostbusters, Nintendo has no intention of making a new Metroid.
iBlue
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(05-20-2017, 01:58 AM)
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No thanks, its like saying would you want a black link? If they do that I am out.
Yarbskoo
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(05-20-2017, 01:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toxi

This is the same series where Samus went from this



to this



So another redesign wouldn't bother me. If anything, I'd be happy just because your suggested Metroid game has Samus actually stay in the armor until the end of the game. :-P

Metroid Fusion came out on the same day as Prime and she looked like this:
Madame M
Banned
(05-20-2017, 02:00 AM)

Originally Posted by iBlue

No thanks, its like saying would you want a black link? If they do that I am out.

Hylians can't be black? It isn't the same Link in every Zelda.
KLoWn
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(05-20-2017, 02:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by ScientificPizza

My argument is that I have an issue with people saying she *needs* to be white. She doesn't.

Isn't it the change of an already established character since 30 years that most people in here have a problem with? Not the fact that she goes from white to black (well, obviously some people are going to kick up a storm about it).
Shaanyboi
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(05-20-2017, 02:03 AM)
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Won't someone think of the children?
Toxi
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(05-20-2017, 02:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yarbskoo

Metroid Fusion came out on the same day as Prime and she looked like this:

Further proving my point. Samus' character design underneath the Varia Suit wasn't really consistent until Zero Mission.

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