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AnathemicOne
Banned
(05-19-2017, 07:14 PM)
No dedicated servers, gonna be hosted on Battle.Net; I really hope Destiny 2 doesn't sully the Blizzard brand.
Mafro
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:14 PM)
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1UP-era Luke Smith would have a field day with Bungie Luke Smith's comments there.
Rizzi
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:14 PM)
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I now have no interest in Destiny 2.
Bossniak
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:15 PM)
Nows the chance to release halo on pc with dedicated servers. Do it 343!
SolidSnakeUS
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by ctw0e

Psyonix, indie-studio behind a very popular multiplayer title: 60fps, dedicated servers on all platforms on launch

Activision, multi-billion dollar company: 30fps, P2P

Oranges and apples and all that, but I do find it amusing. 30fps and P2P in a multiplayer game for $70 is absolutely out of the question.

Exactly fucking this. Bungie has so much fucking funding for this game and they can't even do something simple as shit to actually implement. Blizzard would actually help them (probably) set it up correctly with Blizzard. It's just pure bullshit and laziness on their part. There is literally no reason to not have dedicated servers, especially after the awful, AWFUL implementation and tick rate of the first game (like where a team of severe laggers would beat everyone). Things never change.
E92 M3
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by nekkid

So you'll attack any little thing about what 343 do with Halo, and yet defend this.

Huh.

343 ruined Halo (something I loved for many, many years). Of course I will berate them for their incompetence. While Destiny isn't perfect, it has become one of my all-time favorite games.
Diablohead
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:19 PM)
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I'm sure those 20 dlc's that gave hardly any content could cover the server costs.
Gnome Scat
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:19 PM)
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Welp, looks like I'm gonna wait for reviews on this one too.
psyfi
Banned
(05-19-2017, 07:20 PM)

Originally Posted by nekkid

So you'll attack any little thing about what 343 do with Halo, and yet defend this.

Huh.

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing that, lol

Edit: Hah, I see someone typed out an almost identical response. Dude has a reputation now.
prag16
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nerd_Incognito

I find it hard to believe Activision / Blizzard doesn't have the money to invest in dedicated servers.

It's not about not having the money; it's about feeling they can get away without spending it on that.
Mesoian
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by E92 M3

343 ruined Halo (something I loved for many, many years). Of course I will berate them for their incompetence. While Destiny isn't perfect, it has become one of my all-time favorite games.

If so, why would you defend them actively taking steps to not improve it? Is your mindset, "well it's more of the same and I liked what came before, so I don't care"?

If anything, you should be demanding dedicated servers harder than anyone in this thread.
Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(05-19-2017, 07:21 PM)
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How come the biggest game of the gen (arguably) doesn't have dedicated servers? Goddamn, Bungie.
molnizzle
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mesoian

If so, why would you defend them actively taking steps to not improve it? Is your mindset, "well it's more of the same and I liked what came before, so I don't care"?

If anything, you should be demanding dedicated servers harder than anyone in this thread.

No but you see, Bungie makes this game. And Bungie knows best.™
SolidSnakeUS
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Insane Metal

How come the biggest game of the gen (arguably) doesn't have dedicated servers? Goddamn, Bungie.

In all seriousness, I think it's laziness. They don't want to manage the servers even though it's not that hard. They have all the money in the world to work with and they still won't do it. They want a better experience and a better way of playing their game? They just fucked it, and hard.
Beer Monkey
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:23 PM)
For a franchise that forces you to buy expensive DLC to stay with the community, that's horrible.

Edit: 30fps makes perfect sense now.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:24 PM)
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........what the fuck kind of response is this @Luke Smith?
E92 M3
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mesoian

If so, why would you defend them actively taking steps to not improve it? Is your mindset, "well it's more of the same and I liked what came before, so I don't care"?

If anything, you should be demanding dedicated servers harder than anyone in this thread.

If it's truly connection based (like year 1) it will run perfectly. The reason we started having problems is because of Derek, from Bungie, decided SBMM was very important.
mcrommert
Banned
(05-19-2017, 07:25 PM)

Originally Posted by E92 M3

If it's truly connection based (like year 1) it will run perfectly. The reason we started having problems is because of Derek, from Bungie, decided SBMM was very important.

...
joecanada
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:26 PM)
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when destiny came out I was dealing with lag in ALL ps4 multiplayer games. Now there are better games and better servers to be had.

R6
Titanfall 2
BF4 (once fixed)(server browser is an ok solution like meh)
BF1
Ghost Recon (im on pc though so no idea)

doubt i'll drop all of these for "competitive trials" where you can punch someone and they don't even die.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret

........what the fuck kind of response is this @Luke Smith?

It's a nothing bullshit excuse for not doing the right thing. They have all the money in the world to implement something so easy in this day and age and they decide to make up excuses that will only hurt them in the end.

Good job Bungie, you gave us all the PC options, except for the one that probably matters the most with an online game.
josecitoxnyo
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mesoian

I keep rereading these two responses over and over and I can't help but interpret them as "it's fine that Bungie is treating PvP as an unimportant extra because it's fanbase doesn't really care about PvP".

Which is sort of blowing my mind.

There is a huge amount of people that don't give a fuck about pvp, neither competitive pvp, so there's that.

Originally Posted by Apeboy

Why can't he just say they made that decision, take the good and the bad with it and move on.

You have to think that they think the exact same thing when the pvp playerbase ask them to turn the game into something they don't want. It's smh on both sides.

Originally Posted by KrM DeLorean

Have you played at all? It's a game based on supers and rng loot drops that enhance your abilities. Look at the hoops "sweaty" pvp players jump through to get the game remotely, somewhat competitive on an equal playing ground. Gear sets banned, sub classes, perks, exotics banned. It's laughable.. You're fighting the devs trying to make the game competitive.

I put hundreds of hours into D1, will prob fo the same with D2. But for competitive PvP I'd look elsewhere, or look forward to frustration and disappointment.

Forget it, people can't simply understand that games don't need to be competivive, they can't simply process that idea, it's MLG or GTFO for them.

Originally Posted by RdN

They simply don't want the costs.. Even though it will definitely mean a lesser experience to players.
Fucking pathetic.

For me, it means I won't come anywhere near PvP.

It's 2017 and I refuse to deal with lag.

Good thing this game has a lot more to do than simply pvp.
Have a Nice Day
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Sounds like something that Activision would do.
Aztechnology
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Destiny 2, actually just a standalone expansion.

Feeling more accurate all the time. They made an insane amount of money on the first, and obviously they just seem to want to milk as much as possible from the playerbase. "Hell our playerbase stuck it out through the dirt of content and diversity in D1, lack of dedicated servers etc. Why should two be different?"
Felix Lighter
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:28 PM)
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We didn't want to pay for the servers. Then they have to retweak matchmaking parameters to focus on connection quality, which means skill matching has to take a back seat because P2P connections are a crap shoot.

I'm sure they'll have cosmetic microtransactions and the game will have all the trappings of a game as service style game but they don't want to put the investment into Destiny 2 that those style of games typically have.

It'll sell extremely well. People will buy the microtransactions and they'll have saved the money on servers and their choice to sacrifice quality of service will have paid off. Same as COD.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(05-19-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret

........what the fuck kind of response is this @Luke Smith?

It's the same type of response Luke Smith usually gives. He has a clear passion for the game and looks to be part of the reason Destiny turned into such a great game.

But he doesn't know how to word anything and when he tries to explain controversial things, it comes out as clueless and disrespectful to the community.
CountAntonius
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:30 PM)
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I will forever respect Psyonix for giving us dedicated servers all over the world for Rocket League. The amount of giant companies not willing to flip the bill to give players better online experiences is ridiculous.
Scrootemz
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 07:31 PM)
Wait, so it will be P2P? Like For Honor & Mass Effect Andromeda's multiplayer is? In other words, IT WILL BE PLAGUED WITH HACKS BECAUSE THERE IS NO SERVER AUTHORITATIVELY EVALUATING EVERYTHING?
clarknova156
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:33 PM)
Well that's a no buy for me. Raid disconnects , PvP disconnects , Trials hacking and I just can't deal with that shit all over again for 1,000 hours. This is a glorified expansion and frankly I was more excited when Taken King was shown off the first time.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Felix Lighter

We didn't want to pay for the servers. Then they have to retweak matchmaking parameters to focus on connection quality, which means skill matching has to take a back seat because P2P connections are a crap shoot.

I'm sure they'll have cosmetic microtransactions and the game will have all the trappings of a game as service style game but they don't want to put the investment into Destiny 2 that those style of games typically have.

It'll sell extremely well. People will buy the microtransactions and they'll have saved the money on servers and their choice to sacrifice quality of service will have paid off. Same as COD.

It'll pretty much die on PC and I can bet they won't make a PC version for the 3rd game (if there is one).
GhaleonEB
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:34 PM)
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It's just not an investment that we made for Destiny 2

That's as straight forward an answer as you can get, and I appreciate the candor. Money and resources. But it's not a satisfying answer as it also implies the game would be better with them and they decided not to go with it. Which is the case, of course.
singhr1
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

There is a huge amount of people that don't give a fuck about pvp, neither competitive pvp, so there's that.



You have to think that they think the exact same thing when the pvp playerbase ask them to turn the game into something they don't want. It's smh on both sides.



Forget it, people can't simply understand that games don't need to be competivive, they can't simply process that idea, it's MLG or GTFO for them.



Good thing this game has a lot more to do than simply pvp.

You know that dedicated servers would also help out with PvE right?

And who said dedicated servers = competitive? Casual players can enjoy a game w/o spikes, disconnects, shots not hitting, and hackers too.
mcrommert
Banned
(05-19-2017, 07:36 PM)
I for one look forward to a whole new set of simple word networking errors
Gurish
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by foxdvd

translation "We made a lot of money anyway, so why spend some of it when we are going to make a lot more money anyway...our numbers show that spending money to run dedicated servers will not increase the number of people buying the game"

Spot on.

This is how a business works, they don't give a fuck as long as there is no damage to the sales.

If they could it would also look like a N64 game, problem is that an ugly looking game will harm their sales so they will invest a reasonable amount on tech and art, servers? no need to as most don't care enough.
valkillmore
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kthulhu

Wait for reviews. Don't​ buy it at launch.

I trust GAF impressions more than reviews these days. But agreed, no preordering/launch buys, I will wait for GAF impressions.
Grief.exe
Don't stop believin'~~~ hold on to the feeling
(05-19-2017, 07:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS

It'll pretty much die on PC and I can bet they won't make a PC version for the 3rd game (if there is one).

This game is going to explode on PC.

Loot-based multiplayer shooters always sell into the millions.
DalikSkywing
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by valkillmore

I trust GAF impressions more than reviews these days. But agreed, no preordering/launch buys, I will wait for GAF impressions.

Considering how there are still people who defends p2p in 2017 in this exact thread I don't think how GAF has any more worthy opinions.
josecitoxnyo
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by singhr1

You know that dedicated servers would also help out with PvE right?

And who said dedicated servers = competitive? Casual players can enjoy a game w/o spikes, disconnects, shots not hitting, and hackers too.

Of course it will, the thing is, having a dedicated server does not mean it's a instant improvement if the code running in it is shit.

That's my major complain with Bungie, they're still dealing with the mess they originally had with the game and it's built so hard in the foundations of the project that there's no way to fix it. Notice that every single time we heard about them fixing their tools and engine was to put out content faster, not better.

LOL at people saying the game will die on PC, what do you think this is, The Division?, lol at people saying "don't preorder, wait for reviews", who do you think you are to tell someone that? What if your concerns are something that don't matter at all to him? Are you going to judge him because of that?.
Tecnniqe
Banned
(05-19-2017, 07:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Grief.exe

This game is going to explode on PC.

Loot-based multiplayer shooters always sell into the millions.

And the WoW players who grind shit like this get it for free with all their billions of gold.
Kaako
Felium Defensor
(05-19-2017, 07:42 PM)
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Waiting on reviews regarding this game's MP and connectivity under full server load is probably not the wisest decision. You need to wait at least 2 weeks after the launch of the game; when the community is putting actual load on the servers.
Mesoian
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

There is a huge amount of people that don't give a fuck about pvp, neither competitive pvp, so there's that..

Didn't they link a frightening amount of content to the crucible after the first year? I know people would like to ignore it if they could, but is that really a possibility considering how much is linked to pvp now?

Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

Forget it, people can't simply understand that games don't need to be competivive, they can't simply process that idea, it's MLG or GTFO for them..

TBH, the reason why I never got into destiny was due to how thin the co-op "campaign" was in it's first year. Outside of pvp stuff, the co op things to do never seemed interesting beyond a loot hunt. Now that seems to have changed, destiny 2 seems far more story oriented, which is excellent and makes me 500% more interested in that game.

But I look at the RAMPANT cheating on The Division, another loot based shooter that doesn't use dedicated servers because ::SHRUG:: and cannot help but have a terrible feeling when it comes down to what this game is going to be in month one. They never fixed the division BTW, they can't. It's too late.

Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo


LOL at people saying the game will die on PC, what do you think this is, The Division?, lol at people saying "don't preorder, wait for reviews", who do you think you are to tell someone that? What if your concerns are something that don't matter at all to him? Are you going to judge him because of that?.

WELL....
Carn82
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by CountAntonius

I will forever respect Psyonix for giving us dedicated servers all over the world for Rocket League. The amount of giant companies not willing to flip the bill to give players better online experiences is ridiculous.

I think that's the big shitty thing about AAA gamedevelopment, the actual developers don't always control what's happening. The big publisher is footing the bill, and someone in the ActivisionBlizzard chain of command probably asked the question: "will dedicated servers sell a bucket load of more Destiny games to offset the costs, yes or no?"
Aztechnology
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by valkillmore

I trust GAF impressions more than reviews these days. But agreed, no preordering/launch buys, I will wait for GAF impressions.

I don't, not on highly anticipated hyped games for the first few weeks, even a month. GAF has a way on these types of games of selling the everliving shit out of this stuff to each other, then tapering off in disappointment and growing sour.

The Destiny and Division OT's for instance while brimming with positivity, were terrible about talking about feedback. Communities have the power when large enough and vocal enough to enact change, but not if the community essentially acts as a defensive firewall protecting the game with zealotry.

Those threads had massive honeymoon period of blissful ignorance and then later tons of disappointed people.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Grief.exe

This game is going to explode on PC.

Loot-based multiplayer shooters always sell into the millions.

Until they realize the P2P aspect sucks ass and any sort of PVP will die on the system. There may be all the graphics options to help people visually, but if you provide something that is subpar when it comes to actual MP connection, then you're going to take some serious heat when it comes to PC players.
Draft
(05-19-2017, 07:45 PM)
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we're going to rechange the parameters

josecitoxnyo
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mesoian

Didn't they link a frightening amount of content to the crucible after the first year? I know people would like to ignore it if they could, but is that really a possibility considering how much is linked to pvp now?

Making a PVP map is easier and less resource heavy than making a Raid.
firelogic
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by CountAntonius

I will forever respect Psyonix for giving us dedicated servers all over the world for Rocket League. The amount of giant companies not willing to flip the bill to give players better online experiences is ridiculous.

It's probably because having them doesn't impact their bottom line. If they determined that dedicated servers would increase their profits in a significant fashion, of course they'd do it. They crunched the numbers and probably found that dedicated servers or not doesn't matter to their audience.
Ethical Hedonism
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:46 PM)
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lmao at this non-response
HiredN00bs
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Apeboy

We're gonna change things! We're gonna change things like parameters and stuff! It's gonna be yuge I tell you! I know all kinds of parameters, some of my best friends are parameters!

Why can't he just say they made that decision, take the good and the bad with it and move on. Bungie is the worlds worst when it comes to stuff like this. They work harder trying to bullshit their way through or around things than just owning up to their decisions good or bad and moving on.

They have engineers and designers that specifically focus on improving how the game performs over network. Luke's response was inelegant, but the points were valid:
  • Dedicated servers are a cost/benefit decision. How much will they cost vs. how much will the player experience improve?
  • The amount of players is a variable in peer-to-peer network games that makes things more complicated the higher it goes. Keeping things to 4v4 necessarily improves average match quality
  • Believe it or not, they've spent a lot of money developing things that facilitate better peer-to-peer matches, not just in networking and matchmaking, but also in sandbox, and undoubtedly other areas too
dragonelite
Member
(05-19-2017, 07:48 PM)
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Dam and they were talking about competitive multi. P2p was acceptable in 2005 or so.
Grief.exe
Don't stop believin'~~~ hold on to the feeling
(05-19-2017, 07:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

And the WoW players who grind shit like this get it for free with all their billions of gold.

That's interesting. Does WoW have a system similar to EVE where you can purchase game time with in-game currency?

Must be trying to curb inflation.

Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS

Until they realize the P2P aspect sucks ass and any sort of PVP will die on the system. There may be all the graphics options to help people visually, but if you provide something that is subpar when it comes to actual MP connection, then you're going to take some serious heat when it comes to PC players.

The vast, vast majority will never care enough about the underlying systems to let that effect their sale or stop playing the game.

Only a vocal minority will make noise about P2P backend.

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