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family_guy
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:54 PM)
They should just go the monthly subscription fee route provided they also have the content to back it up.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
(05-19-2017, 10:55 PM)

Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

fixed.

Bungie doesn't do mobile games.

You got me. Bungie clearly doesn't want to make money, as evidenced by all the free DLC expansions they did with Destiny. And good on them for not adding microtransactions either.

Yep, they are certainly only in it for the good vibes they get from designing a good game.

No other motivation here, no sir.

Come on guys.
Armaros
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

fixed.

Bungie doesn't do mobile games.

So how many times you want to change your goalposts and arguments before settling on one?

All this jumping around makes a person dizzy.
Pegasus Actual
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

That pile of slides explains everything, literally everything, you're just taking that so much to heart that you can't understand how can they choose a worse solution. That's dictated by a budget, a workforce, changes to software that take time, money and resources. If you only want to say "yo they cheap out" it's ok, the answer is more complex than that.

You can bet that even having more budget, they will still use the same solution, why? cause if that budget is more useful to improve other parts of the game they'll do it.

Give me a break dude. Workforce, time and resources all in the end translate into money anyway.

And don't act like running Crucible or really any of their game on dedicated servers is some huge massive undertaking. Hell they could keep their existing infrastructure and just swap out player hosts with dedicated servers as their 'physics host' even if it is kind of silly to keep them separate from the 'activity host' at that point.

In the grand scheme of 'man-hours' implementing dedicated servers is borderline nothing.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

Only in cynical hyperbolic gamer outrage land.

No.

As a fan, the presentation was solid and hit key improvements. No one experienced with Bungie's games since Halo was expecting dedicated servers or 60fps. Hoping, not expecting. People have unreasonable expectations about design. Not all projects are equal, not all developers are equal, and making good games is a fucking hard thing.

For being touted as one of the best studios ever, it should be easy to understand where people's disappointments are coming from.

Destiny is a mega hit backed by the extensive wallet of Activision, but they can't give us dedicated servers. Okay.. Guess I can't be disappointed by that unless I live in Cynical Hyperbolic Gamer Outrage Landô lol.
Zackat
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:01 PM)
This is really disappointing. This coupled with it releasing late on PC has really dampened my enthusiasm.
Carn82
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

Why aren't they making mobile games, then?

ahem, first page, regarding ActiBliz yearly results:

Originally Posted by Carn82

Those numbers mean jack if you dont break them down.

If you look at the reports you`ll see that they generate more revenue from mobile games than from Destiny.

Tranqueris
Banned
(05-19-2017, 11:02 PM)

Originally Posted by Armaros

So how many times you want to change your goalposts and arguments before settling on one?

All this jumping around makes a person dizzy.

Probably until you find an explanation that doesn't put any blame on Bungie. I'd go with something like, swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus which unfortunately made it so Destiny 2 doesn't have dedicated servers.
HiredN00bs
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by SocksAndShoes

...What? What is the point you're trying to make here?

Activision makes mobile games, and makes money off them.

Not Activision, Bungie. Why leave Microsoft, why make a deal with Activision, why put so much on the line when they could have self-published hundreds of mobile games in the same time? It's not solely about profit for them. It wouldn't be enough motivation to make the things they make, to take the risks they took.
HiredN00bs
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by FUNKNOWN iXi

No.

For being touted as one of the best studios ever, it should be easy to understand where people's disappointments are coming from.

Destiny is a mega hit backed by the extensive wallet of Activision, but they can't give us dedicated servers. Okay.. Guess I can't be disappointed by that unless I live in Cynical Hyperbolic Gamer Outrage Landô lol.

Being disappointed and saying they did it because they are greedy, lazy bastards are two very different things.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
(05-19-2017, 11:08 PM)

Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

Not Activision, Bungie. Why leave Microsoft, why make a deal with Activision, why put so much on the line when they could have self-published hundreds of mobile games in the same time? It's not solely about profit for them. It wouldn't be enough motivation to make the things they make, to take the risks they took.

It's right there in your post. You don't think that maybe...JUST MAYBE they made money from leaving Microsoft and joining one of the largest and most powerful gaming publishers on the planet? Seriously?

This is getting really tiresome explaining how capitalism works. Please do everyone reading this thread a favor and think about businesses and how they work before posting again.

Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

Being disappointed and saying they did it because they are greedy, lazy bastards are two very different things.

And now we're to the phase where you just make crap up. Literally nobody is saying that. Try again.
MilkBeard
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:12 PM)
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At the same time, I'm not a hardcore player, so it wouldn't bother me that much in the end. Lag usually ends up with a laugh for me, especially when people with shitty connections are glitching out and doing weird things.
7DollarHagane
Banned
(05-19-2017, 11:13 PM)
Bungie is having to do a lot of explaining about this game. Not a good look.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by AlexFlame116

They sound REALLY uncomfortable answering that.

Because Luke knows full well that many in the Destiny community, especially competitive, have been asking for dedicated servers. So let's say Activision didn't allow it; he can't explicitly state that. If they just didn't want to, then the fan base would​ be beyond pissed. Either way, his answer will not be satisfactory.
Bizazedo
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

Being disappointed and saying they did it because they are greedy, lazy bastards are two very different things.

Not really.

The only reason they did it per the interview is that they didn't feel it was a good investment.

Dedicated servers are better. Period. So it's about money.....which is fine, but it's still greed.

The bullshit about hybrid solutions and innovative tech was peddled for For Honor as well. Will Destiny 2 work better than For Honor? Probably (mostly because at this point it looks like a massive copy paste job in a lot of areas from Destiny 1, see handcannon animations). It definitely falls in the greed category. Lazy isn't something that can be argued with given information, but greed..?

I have a weird reason for thinking of greed with them, too. They send Luke Smith out over and over and over to accidentally trigger and upset the fanbase repeatedly instead of hiring presenters or dedicated PR guys (not that DeeJ didn't step in it, either, but he's been allegedly trained at it).

At this point I laugh when it happens and wonder if it's a sick joke on Luke by Bungie higher ups.
Professional Enthusiast
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pie and Beans

1UP Luke Smith steps through a time vortex and spits in Bungie Luke Smith's face.

Haha I love this. He became everything he hated during his 1up days.. :(
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

Being disappointed and saying they did it because they are greedy, lazy bastards are two very different things.

Yes they are, good thing I wasn't saying that. At all.

Originally Posted by SocksAndShoes

And now we're to the phase where you just make crap up. Literally nobody is saying that. Try again.

Yeah lol, what a leap.
HiredN00bs
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by FUNKNOWN iXi

Yes they are, good thing I wasn't saying that. At all.

Yeah lol, what a leap.

I didn't say you were. But apparently I need to study capitalism more. I'm out.

Originally Posted by Bizazedo

Not really.

The only reason they did it per the interview is that they didn't feel it was a good investment.

Dedicated servers are better. Period. So it's about money.....which is fine, but it's still greed.

If I gave you a budget to build a house, and you didn't choose to build top-of-the-line fixtures in the kitchen/baths, would that be a decision made by greed? They're objectively better, but they have prohibitive costs for the benefit they provide.

Bungie isn't funding this game. They have to choose how they spend their budget. They've already spent a lot on peer-to-peer systems, and they've never run dedicated servers on this scale. We don't have the data to go around making accusations one way or another. I'm a fan, so I am absolutely biased, but I'm a fan precisely because I respect the work they do. I see passion and thoughtful design in the products they make, and in the people who make them.
Collingwood
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:45 PM)
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What a pissweak reason
jimboton
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by GermanZepp

Guys, how much can cost put dedicated servers for millons of users? Real question; i don't have a clue.

Probably quite a lot. Most other popular shooters do it though. Their pals at Blizzard do it. This was the perfect time for Bungie to fucking finally figure it out as well.
Iscariot
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by veloxStrix

Really though, no clue how you got that either. I get 5-6ms ping consistently in Overwatch and CS:GO. I get 60-70ms ping in TF2 on average. Characters stuttering around the map every three or four games. Tons of rubber banding no matter where I set my server location.

Well, we're in the realm of anecdotes now, but I don't think there's remotely this consensus you insist on that Tf2 has bad servers/netcode.
recursive
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Carn82

Wealthy companies dont spread their riches across all their divisions and usually keep on investing in the most profitable one. Again, I would have loved to see 60fps / dedicated servers and what not, but the demand is just not big enough for them to justify that investment for this game. That sucks if that makes you not want to get the game, but thats your perogative.

Actually this isn't quite true. Sometimes a division will keep other sectors afloat during a down period. Really depends on circumstance and industry.
AnathemicOne
Banned
(05-20-2017, 12:27 AM)

Originally Posted by jimboton

Probably quite a lot. Most other popular shooters do it though. Their pals at Blizzard do it. This was the perfect time for Bungie to fucking finally figure it out as well.

Like for real, Blizzard has dedicated servers for populated game such as WoW and Overwatch to those with limited playerbases and/or match sizes ala Hearthstone and Diablo 3. How is anyone defending Bungie's lack of dedicated servers when we have a prime example on how dedicated servers objectively improves games no matter what size they are.
HowZatOZ
Banned
(05-20-2017, 12:46 AM)
I find it funny that smaller titles can justify dedicated servers but apparently one of the bigger AAA publishers sees no reason to offer what is arguably the best choice in connection solutions for players. But okay, you keep doing you.

I've lost all interest now thanks to the delayed PC version (for no actual reason) and now no dedicated servers. Living in Australia our Internet isn't exactly the greatest, and in my case when it comes to P2P I have had nothing but trouble going way back to old MW2 days. Shit just doesn't work and I'm not going to support a company still trying to justify an outdated system when we have companies like Amazon who can roll out dedicated servers to anywhere in the world at a click of the finger.

Just look at PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. That game is a much smaller title compared to the behemoth of Destiny yet is perfectly okay in using Amazon servers for their architecture. Utilising that they were able to bring in Oceanic servers so damn quickly, and its made my enjoyment of the game increase tenfold.
Flying Toaster
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:48 AM)
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Honestly I am not shocked. Dedicated servers were a pipe dream this late in the game. Destiny seems to enjoy its niche place as a social game with loose PvP.
josecitoxnyo
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pegasus Actual

Give me a break dude. Workforce, time and resources all in the end translate into money anyway.

And don't act like running Crucible or really any of their game on dedicated servers is some huge massive undertaking. Hell they could keep their existing infrastructure and just swap out player hosts with dedicated servers as their 'physics host' even if it is kind of silly to keep them separate from the 'activity host' at that point.

In the grand scheme of 'man-hours' implementing dedicated servers is borderline nothing.

Again, if it's that easy, then go to bungie and explain them.

Again, if it's that easy to fix, go and explain them how to make the same amount of money with that budget and this investment, explain that to any dev on the planet and make sure to put a timer to see how long you can talk before they start laughing.
HowZatOZ
Banned
(05-20-2017, 12:51 AM)

Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

Again, if it's that easy, then go to bungie and explain them.

Its that easy that a team at my games degree in uni hooked their game into the Steam dedicated servers with relative ease. With how prolific dedicated hosting has become its a no brainer for getting one into your game, unless you are super lazy and just want to trust that P2P "works" enough for your game.
Carn82
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by recursive

Actually this isn't quite true. Sometimes a division will keep other sectors afloat during a down period. Really depends on circumstance and industry.

That's why I used the word 'usually' ;)
Gator86
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by HiredN00bs

I would love to work for Bungie. Very cool people there.


"They made the game worse on purpose to make more money!" is considered a reasonable opinion on game forums. Be better, NeoGAF.

Wow, just wow. Of course they do. Companies want to minimize expenses and maximize profits. Of course, they're going to do the minimum necessary. Sure, a single developer sitting at his desk might want to make the best game ever, but tje management and budget people don't give a shit about that. They're there to ensure profits. If they can move the same number of copies without spending as much on servers, of course they're doing that. No executive is losing sleep over some red bar superstar wrecking your shit unless that means you're less likely to purchase the next DLCs or bite on microtransactions.
Floody
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by family_guy

They should just go the monthly subscription fee route provided they also have the content to back it up.

I ain't paying for an extra sub on top of Plus/Gold. That'd be the worst route they could take imo.

They should just spend some of the money they made from overpriced DLCs and Microtransactions on dedicated servers for PvP.
josecitoxnyo
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by HowZatOZ

Its that easy that a team at my games degree in uni hooked their game into the Steam dedicated servers with relative ease. With how prolific dedicated hosting has become its a no brainer for getting one into your game, unless you are super lazy and just want to trust that P2P "works" enough for your game.

You are seriously comparing that with a AAA title? seriously?

Prolific dedicated hosting? WHAT? Nobody in here has lived through the mess that was BF3 and BF4, clearly. EA went as far taking as full control of where to host a server with BF1 and kill any other third party cause they wanted to minimize people complaining about shit servers.

And guess what, they're still shit. So much for dedicated hosting.
Interficium
Banned
(05-20-2017, 01:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kalnos

I guess they determined that paying you was more cost effective than paying for servers.

Can we get through a single fucking thread without a paid shill accusation. Shit should be an auto-ban.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:01 AM)
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What about PC?
TacticalHotdog
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

You are seriously comparing that with a AAA title? seriously?

Prolific dedicated hosting? WHAT? Nobody in here has lived through the mess that was BF3 and BF4, clearly. EA went as far taking as full control of where to host a server with BF1 and kill any other third party cause they wanted to minimize people complaining about shit servers.

And guess what, they're still shit. So much for dedicated hosting.

However bad you think it is in Battlefield it is still infinitely better than the P2P shitshow in Destiny's crucible or Gears 1 and 2
josecitoxnyo
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by TacticalHotdog

However bad you think it is in Battlefield it is still infinitely better than the P2P shitshow in Destiny's crucible or Gears 1 and 2

It's not, if they work like shit, they work like shit, they're just as bad as P2P in practice. And that's because it depends on what the hell you're trying to host in the server itself, i've said it countless of times, they are not the holy grail to fix everything.
chillybright
Banned
(05-20-2017, 02:10 AM)
That's a bunch of nothing..
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
(05-20-2017, 02:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

It's not, if they work like shit, they work like shit, they're just as bad as P2P in practice. And that's because it depends on what the hell you're trying to host in the server itself, i've said it countless of times, they are not the holy grail to fix everything.

Yes, because people here are asking for a broken dedicated solution...

You know what those games that you mentioned still have over Destiny 2? They listened to the demand and they tried.

They took the first step and they've actually gotten somewhere now that is infinitely better than where they where.

Trying and failing is way more forgivable than not trying at all. Not only that, if they had tried and moved to a dedicated solution, then guess what? Even if it was a little broken in the beginning they would have laid the foundation which would have enabled them to adapt and fix it in time. Which according to their roadmap is a long flipping time.

You are correct in saying that it depends on the netcode that you are trying to host because a broken netcode is only going to run so well no matter the kind of hosting solution. Nobody is saying that they shouldn't work on the netcode. However, a good dedicated solution for MP is going to be better and have more advantages than a good peer to peer solution for MP for more people. People are criticizing that they didn't prioritize dedicated servers at the ground floor when dev for Destiny 2 began even after seeing all the demand for it. They could have put resources into developing a netcode for dedicated servers at that point but it seems like they cheaped out and decided not to. People know very well how successful Destiny has been and grasp both how much money they most likely made for the first game and how much they stand to make for the second. The game has also been in development for quite a while. They also know how much of a time investment Bungie is asking of them for jumping into these games and are wanting an experience that is as smooth as possible over that length of time. So something doesn't add up and their explanation stinks. I mean, the guy himself seemed like he was majorly uncomfortable talking about it so you know they know that it was a misstep. You don't act like that when you are confident about the decisions you made.
The_Endgamer
Member
(05-20-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Probably gutting dedicated servers on a big game so it doesn't look as bad when they do it for their other games/smaller games.

Not sure how I feel about the local hosts but hope the connection is decent at least. Living in Australia has its downsides in regards to internet connections for games :|
TheWasTheJoke
Member
(05-20-2017, 02:53 AM)
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I cannot understand for the life of me why people defend the profit incentives of companies or companies in general. I understand you like Bungie but at the end of the day your a consumer pitted against a billion dollar soulless corporation from whom asking for better service will do naught but to prevent their shareholders having another trip to Italy while at the same time giving you a helluva better gaming experience. No dedicated servers or 60fps is a joke in 2017.
mugwhump
official chef to the
Evil Clown Brigade(tm)
(05-20-2017, 02:55 AM)
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I wish someone would put some pressure on Nintendo for this re: Spla2n
SolidSnakeUS
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by The_Endgamer

Probably gutting dedicated servers on a big game so it doesn't look as bad when they do it for their other games/smaller games.

Not sure how I feel about the local hosts but hope the connection is decent at least. Living in Australia has its downsides in regards to internet connections for games :|

Watch it still have issues where the more lag you have, the better your chances are.
SolicitorPirate
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:20 AM)
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Not defending Bungie/Activision, but I'm rather curious as to how much it would cost to maintain servers that handle the sheer volume of players Destiny has
DreadfulOmen
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:45 AM)
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when destiny first released i had zero problems with lag, but by the time the 2 dlc came, i was having lag in almost every crucible match, and basically stopped playing crucible because the lag was so bad.
Tenshin
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:49 AM)
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Well i dont know any activition games that has dedicated servers.. Let the streak continue.
Blueblur1
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pie and Beans

1UP Luke Smith steps through a time vortex and spits in Bungie Luke Smith's face.

It's fun to make jokes but young writer Luke knew none of the details that people in current Luke's position have to worry about. There are people you have to answer to and serious limitations that you have to face.
SillyNonsense
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:54 AM)
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Haha, that video was uncomfortable. You can see the guy on the left blue-screen after the question is asked. I actually don't really care as long as it works well, but that reply was poorly handled.

The...the parameters. Yes, parameters. Rechange. Refocus. Make Destiny great again. It'll be tremendous.
HeeHo
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by SillyNonsense

Haha, that video was uncomfortable. You can see the guy on the left blue-screen after the question is asked. I actually don't really care as long as it works well, but that reply was poorly handled.

The...the parameters. Yes, parameters. Rechange. Refocus. Make Destiny great again. It'll be tremendous.

Haha yeah, the transcript read very weirdly to me too. Like they were dreading the question.
Jacobson
Member
(05-20-2017, 03:59 AM)
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Wait, this doesn't get dedicated servers? Fuck. Looks like I won't be getting this. My internet is too shitty and I get tons of problems in games with P2P connections (i.e., For Honor).
DreadfulOmen
Member
(05-20-2017, 04:18 AM)
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So many times in destiny i would kill a player, then outta nowhere, 3 seconds later die to the guy that i just killed, even though he is already dead. The lag was horrible for me. I dont understand why, because when the game launched it tan really good.
Holiday
Banned
(05-20-2017, 09:55 PM)
It's pathetic to not have dedicated servers for this game.

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