• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:21 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar
I know we had many threads today about Destiny 2 but are we at the point in this Industry that a whole new Huge Sequel/expansion call it whatever you want doesnt even guarantee at least one new class? Does anyone know if this has happenned before?

For 3 years we ve been playing with only 3 classes and we say that its OK to go another year with these 3 classes? Thats the most basic thing every game gives to its gamers.

Im a Destiny fan but Im sorry Bungie thats not right. And it sets a bad example for the rest of the Devs. I know 4 new planets etc but the game will feel the same and dated if the protagonists are the same!! And it's not a classic game rebooted(so I could understand the classes remain the same). It was released only 3 years ago!

I hope E3 will give us a new class but I doubt it.
Zakalwe
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:22 PM)
Zakalwe's Avatar
The game is built around a trio of classes.

Nothing wrong with that.

The subclasses provide the variety.
-Mutsukki-
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:23 PM)
-Mutsukki-'s Avatar
Aren't most WoW expansions like that too...?

Not trying to take a jab, I only heard about something like this
Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:23 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar
They have a 10 year plan. For sure we wont play with 3 classes for 10 years.

I mean...... will we?

Plz God no.gif
Zakalwe
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:24 PM)
Zakalwe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

They have a 10 year plan. For sure we wont play with 3 classes for 10 years.

I mean...... will we?

Plz God no.gif

Yes, probably, because that seems to be the design of the game.

The subclasses are the variety.
The Greek Freak
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:24 PM)
Destiny launched with like a third of a games content.

You expect the sequel to launch with much more?

Sorry
ShdwDrake
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:24 PM)
ShdwDrake's Avatar
Bruh when they showed them I was like wut? Not even a 4 class at least?
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(05-19-2017, 10:25 PM)
RoboPlato's Avatar
Pretty sure we'll always have the three main classes with subclasses being where the differentiation comes in.
Zakalwe
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:26 PM)
Zakalwe's Avatar

Originally Posted by The Greek Freak

Destiny launched with like a third of a games content.

You expect the sequel to launch with much more?

Sorry

It will, though. What they've described so far is level with D2 + all expansions. This game will have substantially more than vanilla D1.

Originally Posted by RoboPlato

Pretty sure we'll always have the three main classes with subclasses being where the differentiation comes in.

Yep. That's the design and it's perfectly fine.
Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:26 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Yes, probably, because that seems to be the design of the game.

The subclasses are the variety.

Well if thats true then its bad design. Or they should give edit at least 2 new subclasses every major Release. Not one

Also in Wows case they had new classes in some of the Expansions
Last edited by Koutsoubas; 05-19-2017 at 10:29 PM.
Glass Shark
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:27 PM)
Glass Shark's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

They have a 10 year plan. For sure we wont play with 3 classes for 10 years.

I mean...... will we?

Plz God no.gif

10 year plan went out the window when they hamstrung themselves on a poor infrastructure with the first game. Destiny would be far more appealing to me as an MMO-like platform instead of a numbered-sequel franchise that it has turned into.
UnemployedVillain
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:28 PM)
UnemployedVillain's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

Well if thats true then its bad design. Or they should give 3 new subclasses every major Release. Not one

Also in Wows case they had new classes in some of the Expansions

So? Destiny isn't WoW. It's bizarre to even compare them when all they share is being multiplayer and online
deltacanuckian
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:29 PM)
deltacanuckian's Avatar

Originally Posted by jrh2

10 year plan went out the window when they hamstrung themselves on a poor infrastructure with the first game. Destiny would be far more appealing to me as an MMO-like platform instead of a numbered-sequel franchise that it has turned into.

"Has turned into", wait what? Destiny was always getting sequels. That *was* the 10 year plan. A new game every two years, with a "Comet" (expansion) in the off years.
TheDinoman
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:30 PM)
TheDinoman's Avatar
I remember people speculated for years about Valve adding a new 10th class to Team Fortress 2.

Guard Dog, anyone? lol

Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:31 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar
It seriously looks weird to me to play with the same 3 classes for 10 years.

And im not picky when it comes to Destiny
David___
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:32 PM)
David___'s Avatar

Originally Posted by jrh2

10 year plan went out the window when they hamstrung themselves on a poor infrastructure with the first game. Destiny would be far more appealing to me as an MMO-like platform instead of a numbered-sequel franchise that it has turned into.

Destiny always intended to have sequels.
Evil Monkey DTT
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:33 PM)
Evil Monkey DTT's Avatar
I'm glad to see we can have another thread talking about how a game that has a massive love and community excited for it actually sucks.
TheRedSnifit
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:34 PM)
TheRedSnifit's Avatar


19 years (just remembered that TF Quake originally only had four classes) and counting!
Zakalwe
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:35 PM)
Zakalwe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

Well if thats true then its bad design. Or they should give edit at least 2 new subclasses every major Release. Not one

Also in Wows case they had new classes in some of the Expansions

But this isn't WoW.

Look, if the game is designed well enough with the amount of classes and sub-classes they have in mind then it won't matter. You won't be able to tell if the number of classes/sub-classes is lacking until you have context.

You may have played D1 and thought it felt lacking for this reason, but D2 seems to be launching with much more content. So you don't know how you're going to feel about the overall experience.
Garrett Hawke
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:35 PM)
Garrett Hawke's Avatar

Originally Posted by Evil Monkey DTT

I'm glad to see we can have another thread talking about how a game that has a massive love and community excited for it actually sucks.

Yes, nobody can criticise popular things.
Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:36 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar

Originally Posted by Evil Monkey DTT

I'm glad to see we can have another thread talking about how a game that has a massive love and community excited for it actually sucks.

I love Destiny. But I can point out the negatives also. Nothing is perfect in this life.
Alienous
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:37 PM)
Alienous's Avatar
The series seemed built around the three classes, each representing an archetype, that would grow with each game.

I guess adding classes is an MMO thing to do but I didn't expect it. I did expect more exciting class abilities and supers, though.
Bry0
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:38 PM)
Bry0's Avatar

Originally Posted by David___

Destiny always intended to have sequels.

Seriously, did nobody look at the contracts? It was a 10 year deal for like, 3 games and expansions.
This 10 year single game mmo never existed, it's just a dumb misunderstanding.
Strangelove77
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:38 PM)
Strangelove77's Avatar
I'm not sure what a new class would add to the game that a new subclass or two wouldn't. Subclasses are where it's at in Destiny.
Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:41 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

But this isn't WoW.

Look, if the game is designed well enough with the amount of classes and sub-classes they have in mind then it won't matter. You won't be able to tell if the number of classes/sub-classes is lacking until you have context.

You may have played D1 and thought it felt lacking for this reason, but D2 seems to be launching with much more content. So you don't know how you're going to feel about the overall experience.

I can see your reasoning and yes i will know 100% for sure when I play it.

But the fatigue from the old abilities is there. I wanted smth exciting. It doesnt have to be over the top or something crazy. But it needs to be new and combat applicable.

For example you say its designed for 3 specific classes. I can respect that if there were also team combos/attacks. For example connect Warlock and Titan Ulti to create something Unique.

Ideas along this line that will make these specific 3 classes feel important to exist together for 10 years
origamipirate
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 10:43 PM)
origamipirate's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

Well if thats true then its bad design.

Respectfully, I don't think not meeting an arbitrary number of new classes is bad design. Kinda the opposite, if their design intention is based on balancing around 3 roles (with variable skill/ability sets) then breaking that for the sake of consumer expectation of what constitutes "new" could lead into bad territory.
mclem
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:44 PM)
PSO Episode I+II didn't add any new classes, IIRC, although it did add new race/class combinations.
Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:45 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar

Originally Posted by origamipirate

Respectfully, I don't think not meeting an arbitrary number of new classes is bad design. Kinda the opposite, if their design intention is based on balancing around 3 roles (with variable skill/ability sets) then breaking that for the sake of consumer expectation of what constitutes "new" could lead into bad territory.

I agree with you. Its not the number that im worried but the repetition of the same old abilities. In order to feel smth fresh it needs either new addition in numbers or more variety(more than 1 subclasses)

Thats how I see it
Zakalwe
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:51 PM)
Zakalwe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

I can see your reasoning and yes i will know 100% for sure when I play it.

But the fatigue from the old abilities is there. I wanted smth exciting. It doesnt have to be over the top or something crazy. But it needs to be new and combat applicable.

For example you say its designed for 3 specific classes. I can respect that if there were also team combos/attacks. For example connect Warlock and Titan Ulti to create something Unique.

Ideas along this line that will make these specific 3 classes feel important to exist together for 10 years

Right, this makes sense to me more than your OP.

I definitely get that they could have been more creative, and I would have loved that too, but I also know that Destiny 1 was a great game at its core despite its flaws. If D2 manages to fix most of the things wrong with D1, I think that might even be enough for many who are put off by the seeming lack of original content.

I mean the best Destiny got was playing with a group of friends, clan-mates, gaffers to complete the end game content. The Raids being the absolute highlight, and Guided Games looks /huge/ if you have any experience with building groups for activities in D1.

This alone will change the feel of the in game experience drastically, and the social aspects of this game are the things that are really going to make it shine. I think a refined D1 with a bunch more content sounds like it could be pretty incredible.
Last edited by Zakalwe; 05-19-2017 at 10:55 PM.
Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:56 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Right, this makes sense to me more than your OP.

I definitely get that they could have been more creative, and I would have loved that too, but I also know that Destiny 1 was a great game at its core despite its flaws. If D2 manages to fix most of the things wrong with D1, I think that might even be enough for many who are put off by the seemingly lack of original content.

I mean the best Destiny got was playing with a group of friends, clan-mates, gaffers to complete the end game content. The Raids being the absolute highlight, and Guided Games looks /huge/ if you have any experience with building groups for activities in D1.

This alone will change the feel of the in game experience drastically, and the social aspects of this game are the things that are really going to make it shine. I think a refined D1 with a bunch more content sounds like it could be pretty incredible.

On the other hand for people like me who have 5-6 friends every day playing Destiny, guided games and clans dont actually offer anything groundbreaking because I already have more people than I can utilize ready.

I just need new content and that fresh inputs to feel excited.

I really hope they have some surprises left for E3.
JareBear
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:58 PM)
JareBear's Avatar

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

The game is built around a trio of classes.

Nothing wrong with that.

The subclasses provide the variety.

NO. There is a LOT wrong with this. 3 main classes is NOT enough variety, AT ALL.
Par Score
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:09 PM)
Par Score's Avatar

Originally Posted by -Mutsukki-

Aren't most WoW expansions like that too...?

Not trying to take a jab, I only heard about something like this

9 is bigger than 3

Originally Posted by TheRedSnifit



19 years (just remembered that TF Quake originally only had four classes) and counting!

9 is still bigger than 3.

If Destiny launched with 9 classes nobody would be asking for more.

Originally Posted by mclem

PSO Episode I+II didn't add any new classes, IIRC, although it did add new race/class combinations.

Went from 3 to 5. Which would have been an acceptable sort of increase.
Evil Monkey DTT
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:11 PM)
Evil Monkey DTT's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

I love Destiny. But I can point out the negatives also. Nothing is perfect in this life.

Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

Yes, nobody can criticise popular things.

It's not critcism I have a problem with it's having 5 or 6 different threads making the same points.
Mass Effect
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:14 PM)
Mass Effect's Avatar

Originally Posted by Evil Monkey DTT

I'm glad to see we can have another thread talking about how a game that has a massive love and community excited for it actually sucks.

I'm glad to see people like you projecting their persecution complexes on those that enjoy the series, but still have legitimate concerns.
BLCKATK
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:15 PM)
BLCKATK's Avatar
Having 3 classes is fine, it's the subclasses, the different archetypes that matter. And those have changed quite a bit while retaining their core ideas.

And we have no idea what they are adjusting for the other subclasses. We literally know of 2 Titan subclasses, 2 Hunter subclasses and 1 Warlock subclass. We originally had 3 of each.

It's way, way too early to get up in arms about this.
Koutsoubas
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:18 PM)
Koutsoubas's Avatar

Originally Posted by BLCKATK

Having 3 classes is fine, it's the subclasses, the different archetypes that matter. And those have changed quite a bit while retaining their core ideas.

And we have no idea what they are adjusting for the other subclasses. We literally know of 2 Titan subclasses, 2 Hunter subclasses and 1 Warlock subclass. We originally had 3 of each.

It's way, way too early to get up in arms about this.

I wonder what they could change in Stormcaller's Ulti. Its already an ability inflicting damage all the time, so maybe it will stay the same?

Or they could make it like fist of Havoc, releasing 3 big bursts of Electric Energy.
Terrorblot
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:18 PM)
Terrorblot's Avatar

Originally Posted by BLCKATK

Having 3 classes is fine, it's the subclasses, the different archetypes that matter. And those have changed quite a bit while retaining their core ideas.

And we have no idea what they are adjusting for the other subclasses. We literally know of 2 Titan subclasses, 2 Hunter subclasses and 1 Warlock subclass. We originally had 3 of each.

It's way, way too early to get up in arms about this.

Pretty much. I don't understand how everyone's immediate reaction to a games first gameplay footage is that we're looking at the entire picture of what will be included in the final game. Same shit that went on in the ARMS topics until the direct showed footage of plenty of content. People just looking for a pot to stir because they're bored or starved for details.
Mass Effect
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:27 PM)
Mass Effect's Avatar
Anyway, to answer your question OP, as others have said, as long as they have varied archetypes for the subclasses then I think it will be fine.
Aranjah
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 11:46 PM)
Aranjah's Avatar
I was hoping for at least one new class and at least one new playable race. Eliksni, please. They lost the Traveler's light, we lose the Traveler's light. We can be buddies now, right? :D Womp womp.

As is, I'm hopeful that the subclasses shake things up enough that they at least feel new. Which so far it sounds like they might? I'm trying to keep both my disappointment and excitement in check until the beta. If the rest of the game improves enough then I don't think I'll mind the subclasses much.
Yogg
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:59 AM)
Yogg's Avatar
Most games that add classes try to balance it so much over time that they start to look the same (WoW). In retrospect I'd rather have 3 defined classes with a lot of work into them, than many more with tons of overlapping.
Servbot24
Member
(05-20-2017, 02:08 AM)
Servbot24's Avatar
Why is it assumed every new game has new "classes"? Seems like a strange and arbitrary expectation. A dangerous expectation even.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
(05-20-2017, 02:17 AM)
They should downgrade it to 1 class and just make classes something you make yourself with abilities and gear. I would read your thread about it.
Zakalwe
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:20 PM)
Zakalwe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Koutsoubas

On the other hand for people like me who have 5-6 friends every day playing Destiny, guided games and clans dont actually offer anything groundbreaking because I already have more people than I can utilize ready.

I just need new content and that fresh inputs to feel excited.

I really hope they have some surprises left for E3.

Anyone who's had a regular group for raids will know that replacing a member during or just before a run is a pretty common occurrence.

I ran VoG with my core group around 50 times for a full clear, and I entered that raid twice as many times with other groups for full runs or partial clears, and having to replace a member was a very common thing.

Guided Games is going to be a fantastic thing for clans, groups of friends, solo players... everyone

Thread Tools